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[Orayn]

Memory is pretty damn cheap nowadays, no way they're going with 2gb. I looked to see what the ram for a pc was back in 05 and found it was around 512 mb-1gb average, right on par with a 360. Not a tech head, but the fact that you can get 8 gigs of ddr3 for under 50 bucks, I see no way of going under 4gb. What a waste of a hex cpu and 2 gpu's that would be.

We're not talking about installing RAM sticks in DIMM slots. Take the added cost of buying the modules and soldering them onto every one of the units you plan to sell and suddenly it's not so cheap any more.

 

[styl3s]

Who the fuck cares cares if its not 4gb.. look at what they have done with the tiny amount they have now on ps3/360, imagine what can be done with what? 4x what they are currently using?

 

[Discotheque]

if you had to choose, Bluray or Amazon Instant?

I don't think they have Amazon Instant in igloo-land so I'm gonna have to go with the former

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

We're not talking about installing RAM sticks in DIMM slots. Take the added cost of buying the modules and soldering them onto every one of the units you plan to sell and suddenly it's not so cheap any more.

Well I'm all for making the install process easier than previous gens

Who the fuck cares cares if its not 4gb.. look at what they have done with the tiny amount they have now on ps3/360, imagine what can be done with what? 4x what they are currently using?

Yea, but for the next 7 years? pc's will have 64 gigs of ram by the end of that cycle, but of course it won't be utilized if we're stuck with weak consoles.

 

[gatti-man]

I work in a PC repair shop and I always find it entertaining when people come and say "I need 8GB because I'm going to be gaming" This happens ALL the time. I think the big PC manufactures have corrupted peoples thinking when it comes to memory, they're selling home PC's with 8GB of memory, which is absolutely absurd. Its simply a selling point, that's it, the bigger the number, the better it sounds, and memory is cheap.

Exactly. 2gb is plenty but give me 1gb VRAM. I'd rather have a ton of VRAM and less system ram then the opposite.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I know I'm in the minority, but I find it odd that so many people on GAF believe that this system needs to be a graphical powerhouse to succeed.

Eh, people are just projecting their wants onto the speculation.

That said, I have to laugh at the idiots who seriously want people to believe if X console doesn't have an arbitrary amount of RAM they won't buy it without seeing a single game.

 

[Orayn]

Yea, but for the next 7 years? pc's will have 64 gigs of ram by the end of that cycle, but of course it won't be utilized if we're stuck with weak consoles.

It's impossible to say where hardware and games will be 6+ years from now.

 

[eastmen]

"Smoke" is a strong qualifier. But would you at least agree that an hexacore Xenon wouldn't be that impressive of a CPU?

it depends on what it needs to do . A hexacore xenon would be tiny as I already said it would be the same tranistor count as a core 2 duo .


You'd have a 6 core cpu that can excute 6 threads. I'm sure they'd enahnce it a bit . Current xenon has 1MB l3 cache. I'm sure that they would buff this up mabye all the way to 6MBs .


I don't think it be faster than sanybridge or even the amd chips , but i don't think it needs to be and it would be quite tiny compared to modern pc cpu's . Going this route would allow MS to invest in a much bigger GPU which would match their strategy from this gen.


Of course the 6 core cpu could simply be a phenom II x6 and it could be replaced with bulldozer. There was a strong rumor last year that AMD won the contracts for both gpu and cpu in a console.

Bulldozer is a solid chip that is hampred alot by its process. a 4/8 core bulldozer would make a good chip for MS also and with the trouble amd is in they might have given it to MS for a song

 

[Zoe]

Yea, but for the next 7 years? pc's will have 64 gigs of ram by the end of that cycle

Got anything to back that up?

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

It's impossible to say where hardware and games will be 6+ years from now.

Its not impossible to take previous growth and expand upon those patterns. Moore's law may not be a flawless formula, but so far its been somewhat accurate, and I don't see a complete shift in under a decade.

Got anything to back that up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

 

[Plinko]

Eh, people are just projecting their wants onto the speculation.

That said, I have to laugh at the idiots who seriously want people to believe if X console doesn't have an arbitrary amount of RAM they won't buy it without seeing a single game.

That's what is so puzzling to me, especially when I talk to so many people outside of GAF that are at the point where graphics don't matter any more.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

[*]I don't know why MS are going split main RAM / VRAM. That would just give their console the same bottleneck as the PS3.

It's all about efficiency. Xbox had a unified memory architecture with far more bottlenecks than GameCube. Same deal with N64 versus PlayStation, it's all about how it's implemented, not if it's unified versus pooled.

 

[Agent Ironside]

Err, Crysis 2 hi res texture pack for one that I know of, already recommends 8GB of RAM.

All it takes is one game you cant "max" at 4GB (EG, the aforementioned Crysis 2), and that's good enough to practically obsolete it in the eyes of the PC hardcore. 4GB may currently be "enough", but I certainly wouldn't build a new gaming PC with only that much.

And I do agree that console ports are certainly holding PC back, otherwise they'd be using much more RAM.

Well PC's I've seen it run on with max settings hardly reach over 3GB of usage

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

That's what is so puzzling to me, especially when I talk to so many people outside of GAF that are at the point where graphics don't matter any more.

I like to think of it this way:

For all the people bitching in this and other graphics speculation threads, think about the amount that aren't.

 

[onQ123]

if it's designed more like the PS3 this could be 2GB of main Ram & 2GB of VRam for a total of 4GB of Ram

 

[Jonm1010]

I know I'm in the minority, but I find it odd that so many people on GAF believe that this system needs to be a graphical powerhouse to succeed.

Well I think there is a need to have a noticeable improvement from the 360. What's the incentive for people to buy the Loop if the graphics look barely better than the 360 and their selling point is a slightly improved kinect and interface?

I don't think that's enough WOW factor to move the sort of volume they want and to take the early lead from WiiU. With the exception of the wii, graphical improvements have always been the cornerstone of what people talk about and get excited about with new consoles.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

But can it run Crysis?

 

[Krakatoa]

if it's designed more like the PS3 this could be 2GB of main Ram & 2GB of VRam for a total of 4GB of Ram

I doubt thats the case. Unified memory is much more developer friendly.

 

[Agent Ironside]

That's what is so puzzling to me, especially when I talk to so many people outside of GAF that are at the point where graphics don't matter any more.

I agree with this, people are used to really good looking games these days, but animation, AI and basically everything except visuals, needs to catch up, I feel its really behind. But honestly, what person outside of people like us, will buy a game because of good animation written on the back of the box, not likely to happen.

 

[gatti-man]

Its not impossible to take previous growth and expand upon those patterns. Moore's law may not be a flawless formula, but so far its been somewhat accurate, and I don't see a complete shift in under a decade.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

Well 7 years ago my pc had 4gb and now it has 8gb when all anyone really needs is 4gb unless we count VRAM. I'd say 16gb total ram is possible in another 7 but honestly 64gb is rediculous for any number of reasons.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Well I think there is a need to have a noticeable improvement from the 360. What's the incentive for people to buy the Loop if the graphics look barely better than the 360 and their selling point is a slightly improved kinect and interface?

Games.

 

[Lord Error]

Any random GAFer could say that RROD is bad, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could actually solve the underlying problem themselves.

Make the console a bit bigger, with more vents, use better soldering method, integrate bigger/better cooling. It's not really that difficult. They stuffed too much into a too small, poorly cooled shell. It doesn't take a genius to see that. I understand why they did it though, and it was basically for marketing purposes as they wanted to have a small and sleek looking machine.

It will come with optical media, but it doesn't matter because I think I can safely predict that NO next gen system will come without pre-loading to HDD in form of a more or less mandatory install/copy of the disk. ..And with a possible SSD solution you could load 2GB of data in a couple of seconds.

I wouldn't bet on SSD drive in a 300-400$ machine released in 2012. Or even the fact that there will be mandatory installations, for that matter.

 

[onQ123]

That's what is so puzzling to me, especially when I talk to so many people outside of GAF that are at the point where graphics don't matter any more.

this is what I was saying in the Wii U threads. it's at a point where I would be happy to see a Mario game with Uncharted 2/3 level graphics or a Mario Kart game with GT5 / Forza Motorsport 4 level graphics.

 

[Jonm1010]

Well PC's I've seen it run on with max settings hardly reach over 3GB of usage

Well that's still over 3gb for a game that was designed with the lead platform being a system with 512mb. A mere texture pack upgrade and some direct x 11 upgrades pushes the ram over 3gb. So what does that say about a console with possibly only 2gb of ram for the next 7 years?

I really think people are trying to rationalize what really could be next gens bottleneck for Microsoft if this rumor isn't false or their isn't a significant amount of ram from the GPU.

 

[eastmen]

Got anything to back that up?

Current ddr 3 ram uses 50nm some of it is moving to 40nm. DDR 4 will mark the use of sub 40nm process.

30-39nm process will allow for higher density sticks , meaning 8 gig sticks will become the norm like 4gig sticks became the norm in 2009 or so . They will also use TSV and 3d stacking for even higher density

With DDR 4 we are also moving to point to point memory controllers so you will see more and more slots for on board ram.

Also SB-E marks the first board releases i've seen that have 8 memory slots . So if you wanted to you can use 64gigs of ram today .

 

[Zoe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

Is it practical though? I was running 4GB 4-5 years ago and I'm still running 4GB today. Even my dev system at work only has 4GB.

Edit: wtf, no more stealth edits??

 

[Plinko]

Games.

Bingo.

 

[itsgreen]

I'm saying it, 2GB would be a 360 with 256MB.

If a 360 with 256MB existed today... it wouldn't...

 

[eastmen]

Is it practical though? I was running 4GB 4-5 years ago and I'm still running 4GB today. Even my dev system at work only has 4GB.

Edit: wtf, no more stealth edits??

What do you do on your pc ?

I'm running 8 gigs and i'm ready to get anothe 8 gigs .


Yo ucan get 8 gigs now for $30 . Ram is crazy cheap

 

[French]

Not surprised, with the success of Kinect I don't have high hopes for the next Xbox.

Let's hope Sony makes a very powerful PS4, like they did with the Vita.

 

[onQ123]

Well I think there is a need to have a noticeable improvement from the 360. What's the incentive for people to buy the Loop if the graphics look barely better than the 360 and their selling point is a slightly improved kinect and interface?

I don't think that's enough WOW factor to move the sort of volume they want and to take the early lead from WiiU. With the exception of the wii, graphical improvements have always been the cornerstone of what people talk about and get excited about with new consoles.

I guess you haven't seen all the people who upgrade iPhones & iPads every time there is a new one. & that Wii console that wasn't much of a improvement over the GameCube but had a new control interface.

 

[Jonm1010]

Games.

So I can buy Modern warfare 4 on 360 for 60 dollars or doll out 300 dollars and another 60 bucks for a slightly improved version on the Loop.

I think a lot of casual gamers and dude bros will wait to pick up their Loop all the while the press for the upgrade will be largely lackluster given the small increase.

But frankly, Microsoft isn't that stupid, they will have a significant upgrade to their console because they know, despite the wii fluke, graphics are a major selling point of next gen consoles, and they have direct x to showcase.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Well 7 years ago my pc had 4gb and now it has 8gb when all anyone really needs is 4gb unless we count VRAM. I'd say 16gb total ram is possible in another 7 but honestly 64gb is rediculous for any number of reasons.

7 years ago you had 4gb of ddr3? Thats 5-10 times the average computer for the time which is about equal to like 16-32 gb now. Re-read my post, I was saying what pc's will have by then, not game systems.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Are any of you seriously considering buying a next gen console day 1 after this past gen? So many things went terribly wrong.

 

[tycoonheart]

What do you do on your pc ?

I'm running 8 gigs and i'm ready to get anothe 8 gigs .


Yo ucan get 8 gigs now for $30 . Ram is crazy cheap

Why are you "ready" to get another 8 gigs though? Is it purely because its so cheap? Do you think you'll see any improvement on your PC because the added 8 gigs of RAM?

 

[Zoe]

What do you do on your pc ?

I'm running 8 gigs and i'm ready to get anothe 8 gigs .


Yo ucan get 8 gigs now for $30 . Ram is crazy cheap

I code, browse, and play Flash games.

He wrote that as if 64GB will be the norm. What kind of consumer seriously needs 64GB?

 

[Red UFO]

Hexbox

 

[Baron_Calamity]

Are any of you seriously considering buying a next gen console day 1 after this past gen? So many things went terribly wrong.

You take the good with the bad. I'm ready for the next generation and all the downfalls that might entail.

 

[Jonm1010]

I guess you haven't seen all the people who upgrade iPhones & iPads every time there is a new one. & that Wii console that wasn't much of a improvement over the GameCube but had a new control interface.

Are people upgrading iPhones for games? No, no they're not. apple attracts a different consumer and has built in a different mindset into those consumers.

And wii is one fluke that couldn't sustain itself on the software end from 3rd parties so it is rushing a new console they hope is more friendly to the industry. And Microsoft doesn't have the first party games that can make a wii type leap work IMO. In fact only Nintendo has that power.

 

[[Nintex]]

Are any of you seriously considering buying a next gen console day 1 after this past gen? So many things went terribly wrong.

I believe in Faulkner and the Courier team.

 

[Agent Ironside]

Are any of you seriously considering buying a next gen console day 1 after this past gen? So many things went terribly wrong.

Depends on if I can sit there and watch my friends play awesome next gen games and watch next gen gameplay videos while having the restraint not to go out to my local walmart and pick up a next gen system. In all serious, unrealistic, if someone can have that self control, then I commend them.

 

[gatti-man]

Are any of you seriously considering buying a next gen console day 1 after this past gen? So many things went terribly wrong.

And ms took care of it. I went through 3 xboxes. I was without my console for a total of 16 days. I've had a similar experience with Sony tvs. Its not a big deal if they take care of the customer.

 

[LQX]

Are any of you seriously considering buying a next gen console day 1 after this past gen? So many things went terribly wrong.

I think of all the console manufacturers MS has probably learned the most not to skimp on the quality of hardware parts for their console. I will be shocked if there next system is not as sturdy as the slim which is built pretty solid.

 

[eastmen]

I code, browse, and play Flash games.

He wrote that as if 64GB will be the norm. What kind of consumer seriously needs 64GB?

Today very few people. In 7 years like he said ? Mabye everyone for all we know.

I remember the first pc i built had a 386 16mhz with 1MB of ram. Seriously what kind of consumer needs more than that ?

When the 360 first came out I believe i built my first 2 gig pc and most users had 512 to 1 gig of ram

Today most people have 4 gigs of ram while power users will start at 8 gigs and go up to 16 gigs.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

So I can buy Modern warfare 4 on 360 for 60 dollars or doll out 300 dollars and another 60 bucks for a slightly improved version on the Loop.

I think a lot of casual gamers and dude bros will wait to pick up their Loop all the while the press for the upgrade will be largely lackluster given the small increase.

But frankly, Microsoft isn't that stupid, they will have a significant upgrade to their console because they know, despite the wii fluke, graphics are a major selling point of next gen consoles, and they have direct x to showcase.

Let's be completely honest here - At the beginning of every generation the games always look like barely souped of versions of the last console's offerings and people still snap them up. Tech enthusiasts are obviously responsible for a good portion of early adoption, however most early sales are driven by gamers who want games.

This was Gun on 360 for perspective. You're not remembering properly if you think that people were buying the 360 en masse because the graphics at launch were blowing XBOX out of the water.

 

[Wildstar75]

2GB is a joke. By 2013 most phones will probably have the same amount of memory. And they want this thing to last 6-10 years? My Shoes will have 2GB of memory 6-10 years from now. More than CPU, motion sensors, and even graphics, I believe that memory is the key ingredient for success in the next generation. Minimum should be 4GB and 1GB for Video Memory. Anything less will not be relevant for more than 2-3 years. Ideally Next Gen will have 8GB total memory, including video memory. Event with that, 10 years wont happen and even 6 may be a stretch.

 

[Hari Seldon]

It seems stupid to me to go with some BA exotic custom CPU design and then go skimpy on the cheap ass RAM that is built in bulk in Taiwan.

 

[eastmen]

2GB is a joke. By 2013 most phones will probably have the same amount of memory. And they want this thing to last 6-10 years? My Shoes will have 2GB of memory 6-10 years from now. More than CPU, motion sensors, and even graphics, I believe that memory is the key ingredient for success in the next generation. Minimum should be 4GB and 1GB for Video Memory. Anything be relevant for more than 2-3 years. Ideally Next Gen will have 8GB total memory, including video memory. Event with that, 10 years wont happen and even 6 may be a stretch.

read the OP its 2 gigs system ram and an unknown amount of VRAM . So for all we know there are 34 gigs of ram in the system. 2 gigs of system ram and 32 gigs of VRAM.

More than likely its 2 gigs of system ram and 2 gigs of VRAM

 

[Death Dealer]

Are any of you seriously considering buying a next gen console day 1 after this past gen? So many things went terribly wrong.

As long as there is a "killer app" on day 1.

 

[test_account]

2GB ought to be enough for anyone

Seriously, it sounds like an ok amount of RAM concidering the $400 pricetag (i cant imagine that the next Xbox will cost more than this at least). I'm curious how much RAM the PS4 will have in comparison.