It makes plenty of sense if they feel universal usage is more important to the Windows ecosystem overall than the relatively small profit margins they'd see selling them separately.
Rumor: Xbox 3 = 6-core CPU, 2GB of DDR3 Main RAM, 2 AMD GPUs w/ Unknown VRAM, At CES
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THE:MILKMAN
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I think Sony will stick with Nvidia.
I thought they had a somewhat murky relationship due to certain agreements for RSX
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Bingo. There isn't a 20 billion dollar "Xbox deficit" that needs to paid back eventually, those losses were covered back in the fiscal years they happened by MS overall profitability, and a company like MS pisses away money on ongoing R&D anyway.
The whole "Xbox is in the hole" thing comes from posters that think companies are run like their childhood lemonade stand.
bigtroyjon
Member
They don't just spend money on R&D without a budget, they set a conservative sales target, set an amount per console they want to spend on R&D, and then multiply the two together to come up with an overall budget(extremely simplified version of what goes on). The goal is to break even on that amount of consoles by having future profits be greater than past losses.
We aren't talking about past losses though, we are talking about an ongoing project that hasn't even been released yet. They without a doubt are expecting the projects future profits to pay for the current R&D losses.
iamshadowlark
Banned
I'd doubt it, especially with the way they were trying to diss consoles in general lately.
That's what a lot of rumors seem to be pointing to. I hope they're true, not because I have anything against nVidia but because AMD seems to be better at higher quality GPUs without having as big of power draws. It would also help keep the architecture pretty similar between the consoles in terms of GPU rendering so multi platform stuff might be a bit easier to do, if MS and Sony have similar goals for their GPUs.
Proelite
Member
The goal was actually prevent loss of sales of Windows to Sony.
Well yeah there isn't a bottom less money pit they can use for R&D
What I meant was that the costs have already been spend and accounted when the first 720 gets sold. All of 720's R&D costs have been put on the balance and were offset in previous years by 360 profits.
The costs 720 now makes will be handled with in their Q3 2011 report and will be offset by profits 360 now makes. Those costs won't exist anymore when the console launches....
Cmd. Pishad'aç
Banned
I'm curious to see how such a machine with this specs would stand out graphically against Wii U...
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Maybe they do, I don't really know TBH. I just have a feeling Sony will want/need to keep thing's as simple as possible. Better the devil you know?
Whatever CPU/GPU combo they've gone for, I'd imagine it's a done deal. Just waiting for leaks..........*Taps fingers*
Proelite
Member
Cmd. Pishad'aç;32837506 said:
Wii-U rumored Specs:
3 OOE Cores with SMT
at least 1 GB of GDDR5 memory + some amounts of other types of ram and Edram.
1 teraflop AMD GPU
Xbox rumored Specs:
6 cored CPU
2 gigs of fast DDR3 ram, mostly like 2133 class
2 AMD GPUs with at least 1 Gb of GDDR5 memory and at least 3 teraflops of processing power.
3-4 times the real world performance, less if Nintendo sticks with 720p.
does anyone actually care about this anymore?
Remember that whatever value is listed for VRAM, the usable amount is cut in half if they are using dual GPU's
they aren't
brain_stew
Member
I wouldn't count on it
Hehe, nothing gets delivered with cables anymore. And if they have a standard hdmi cable it doesnt matter anymore. Won't be surprised if HDMI is the only output...
I still don't believe the dual gpu setup. Probably gotten from an early dev kit to simulate the performance of the future chip...
Shin Johnpv
Member
brain_stew
Member
I don't know why anybody gave these rumours any credence in the first place. DDR3 and dual GPUs should have set off warning signs for everybody.
Well I guess the only thing left is waiting on CES to learn that nothing Xbox was announced
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Damn it!
OK, if Sony follow the Vita's path, the PS4 will be what the developers want.
What would developers want Brain_Stew? (not to put you on the spot or anything)
Is there any specific reason NVidia seems to be so disinterested in this market? I understand it's probably not the most lucrative niche around, but there is still money to be made.
Perhaps it's just me making too much out of something.
I suspect it may be less to do with NVidia interest and more to do with a lack of interest from the console manufacturers.
The pricing model for Xbox left a bad taste in MS's mouth, and I suspect the performance and cost of RSX may have had a similar effect on Sony. Well, maybe not quite how things ended with MS, but on the other hand I doubt Sony felt it went so well they'd just skip testing the waters with alternatives.
The fact NVidia has been having issues competing vs ATI (AMD) in terms of performance/watt probably doesn't help things. We have no reason to assume things will change this upcoming GPU gen. ATI simply seems to be the better fit for set-top boxes.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
This has been covered before:
Like everything else, the Xbox-Next's ongoing (probably since 2005) R&D budget gets reset every year when the new fiscal year starts, it doesn't add up to one giant bill that the Xbox division has to pay back "or else" after launch.
brain_stew
Member
Its not that they're disinterested, its the fact that they've burnt so many bridges over the years. If you were Sony, would you have been happy with the outdated POS Nvidia pawned off to you?
Its well documented how Nvidia royally screwed over MS with the original Xbox and considering the lengths AMD went to deliver above and beyond with Xenos, why exactly would Microsoft consider anyone else?
CELL's probably going to bork up BC for Sony anyway, might as well make a clean break on the GPU side, given the chance.
At this point, the safest bet is that AMD will be in all three consoles next generation, just like IBM was in all three this generation. For Sony's direction, you need to look at what they're doing with Vita.
Proelite
Member
It'll be really funny if MS opted for an updated cell cpu with OOE PPE in their next xbox.
They would have three or more of them to keep backwards capability with 360. The SPEs were the stars of PS3's architecture (saved Sony's ass when it comes to graphics).
Maybe Msnerd is getting somewhere with the Loop drivel, since the assisitive ARM cores does sound a lot like SPEs to me.
They would have three or more of them to keep backwards capability with 360. The SPEs were the stars of PS3's architecture (saved Sony's ass when it comes to graphics).
Maybe Msnerd is getting somewhere with the Loop drivel, since the assisitive ARM cores does sound a lot like SPEs to me.
I wonder, setting aside the conflict of interest (if any were to exist), how will PS4 ensure a different GPU than Xbox 3's or vice-versa if both get their GPU designed by AMD (if it isn't a fully custom designed one that is)?
Proelite
Member
Since MS will own the IP for the GPU, Sony should be careful on not getting sued. Vice Versa.
It's PowerVR by Imagination Technologies. They mostly work on mobile platforms.
bgassassin
Member
The parts with a strike I would consider educated guesses over rumors. The parts without are either actual rumors or things confirmed.
One thing seems to be the case is that PC textures probably won't be going past 2048*2048*4 anytime soon so the next systems probably will be good with 2-4gb of ram. This range of ram will be enough to allow PC level texturing on the next gen. Combined with enough edram to do free AA'ed deferred rendering and the games will look great for a few years.
For tax, financial statement, etc. purposes, sure ... but as a business things aren't quite that simple.
Now for the people keeping a running tally that includes the original Xbox losses, certainly that is silly ... but of course a company looks back at the current generation as a whole when planing the design, marketing, and targeting of their next console. Obviously if market analysis shows the current generation is going to end in the red, they don't just go 'hey guys, let's do the same thing this time'. That's crazy talk.
Similar, if successive generations are in the red, they're going to reconsider whether it makes sense to go on unless their continued market presence (even at a loss) is a net positive for the company due to its impact on other sectors of the company.
ATi has been working with Nintendo for generations.
More to the point, IBM did everyone's CPU last gen ... and likely this as well. Companies as big as IBM and AMD are well equipped at handling IP concerns and the like.
It's actually not logical at all. Basic corporate strategy is that long-term competitive advantage doesn't necessarily mean maximizing profitability. If Kinect is where MS seeks to build its unique niche audience and is their key competitive strength then it should be packed-in and used as a centerpiece. If it isn't then it will only be what it can be, a sideshow, a mere accessory. Now GAF may like that line of thinking, but simply speaking it won't happen. Kinect is now a part of MS strategy and will be integrated as a full component of the Xbox brand and system from now on.
This is before considering its usefulness in the 3 screens and the cloud ecosystem. Everyone using Bing to aggregate media, etc = wins for MS as a whole.
Why? People seem happy rebuying gadgets like the iPad. More importantly next-next gen likely will see introduction of a cloud service that makes upgradeable boxes a quaint notion.
You answered your own question. Someone will make the console of forever eventually anyways. The way I see it, its always been a race to see who can do it first.
Ether_Snake
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I expect Sony and MS to enforce 1080p in TRC, possibly 3D as well (most likely only Sony on the later point).
If MS does not enforce 1080p, Sony won't. They would be shooting themselves in the foot.
If MS does not enforce 1080p, Sony won't. They would be shooting themselves in the foot.
Proelite
Member
Enforcing 1080p is stupid. In action heavy sequences you won't notice the difference between 720p and 1080p. I did rather them enforce 60fps.
Ether_Snake
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Same with 60FPS, both have to enforce it, or at least MS. Sony can't afford to have games on PS4 looking worst just to run better if MS doesn't do it.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
It was rumored a while ago that AMD had won contracts on all 3 Next Gen Consoles.
and after a quick google search, this was the first mention of it I found (July 7, 2011)
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/07/07/e3_rumors_on_next_generation_console_hardware
All 3 are already using IBM for their CPU's so it would only make things easier on devs if they all used the same manufacturer for their GPU's too.
east of eastside
Banned
This article claims that Nvidia confirmed it is working on a console:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...r-is-a-64-bit-arm-processor-architecture.aspx
The article is on Project Denver/Maxwell--64bit ARM w/256 cuda core GPU with the implication it is for PS4.
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...r-is-a-64-bit-arm-processor-architecture.aspx
The article is on Project Denver/Maxwell--64bit ARM w/256 cuda core GPU with the implication it is for PS4.
Proelite
Member
Considering dynamic resolutions will extend the console's lifespan, I don't see 1080p being enforced. They have no way of enforcing something like that either.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I don't expect them to enforce anything maybe 720p and Sony might do 3D for it's first party but nothing else.
You've got to be kidding.
I'm not advocating requiring it, but you've got to be nuts if you think native 1080p vs 720p content is not noticeable. This isn't a movie that's down-sampled from a higher resolution source. Unless you have a tiny TV or sit in another room while playing (yes, I'm exaggerating for effect), it's going to be quite obvious.
Granted, my hope is they actually make games more like PC titles where you can configure performance. That way, everyone wins.
Zoramon089
Banned
But console hardware doesn't change...unless there's settings for 60 fps - some effects vs 30 fps + all effects
Proelite
Member
Rage drops it's resolution by half during intense gameplay. I haven't heard too many complaints about the resolution.
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