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[foobarry81]

http://www.nintendo-evolved.com/article.php?artid=1599

According to certain people in close contact with Namco, the prestigious development and publishing company has plans to port over the Dreamcast version of SoulCalibur to Nintendo's new handheld, the DS.

The source claims that the DS version of SoulCalibur will look and sound every bit as good as its Dreamcast counterpart.

This is due to both new compression technologies and techniques, and the fact that the less complex that textures, character models, and environments are, the less space they consume. Since the DS's screen resolution is quite a bit smaller than a TV's resolution, that means lower res textures and less polygons can be used to create highend visuals.

If this one does indeed come true, the DS's dominance over the PSP may infact come to fruition.

We will have more on this rumor as it becomes available.

I don't believe this rumour. What about combo's?

 

[8bit]

You could always draw the combos on the lower screen.

 

[Shogmaster]

DC SC on DS is BS IMO.

 

[Grubdog]

DC SC on DS is BS IMO.

IAWTP

It would be awesome, but.. very unlikely.

 

[king zell]

IWTB

 

[Koshiro]

Was the writer drunk when he wrote this? Either that or he's been smoking something.

 

[hirokazu]

would be cool if true though, i just saw it on an italian website about 10min ago but i couldn't read it...

 

[DSN2K]

I dont believe this news.

 

[ourumov]

They can do a nice port though...I hope it's true. They could also add an enhanced 1P mode.

 

[Oni Link 666]

Soul Calibur was at one time supposed to be coming to the GBA. A DS version wouldn't surprise me. Namco was one of the first Japanese companies to get behind the DS. As for it looking like the DC version, I doubt it.

 

[Shogmaster]

SC on DS is doable, but won't look anything like the DC version.

Some comparasins:

DC................................................DS
16MB just for System RAM..............4MB of total RAM
DX6/7 level graphic FXs.................can't even do texture filtering and alphas
Multi-million triangles/sec...............low 100,000 polygons per second

Seriously, even if you account for the resolution difference, no way in hell DS will replicate DC SC, let alone "look and sound every bit as good as its Dreamcast counterpart". Maybe if you're stoned.

 

[capslock]

http://www.nintendo-evolved.com/article.php?artid=1599

According to certain people in close contact with Namco, the prestigious development and publishing company has plans to port over the Dreamcast version of SoulCalibur to Nintendo's new handheld, the DS.

The source claims that the DS version of SoulCalibur will look and sound every bit as good as its Dreamcast counterpart.

This is due to both new compression technologies and techniques, and the fact that the less complex that textures, character models, and environments are, the less space they consume. Since the DS's screen resolution is quite a bit smaller than a TV's resolution, that means lower res textures and less polygons can be used to create highend visuals.

If this one does indeed come true, the DS's dominance over the PSP may infact come to fruition.

We will have more on this rumor as it becomes available.

I don't believe this rumour. What about combo's?

Well, with the four button layout and given Namco's recent support of Nintendo it's not surprising that Namco might be considering a port, but the reasoning given for the game looking as good as the DC version is bullshit though, if that were true, wouldn't all DS games look as good as DC games?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

If this one does indeed come true, the DS's dominance over the PSP may infact come to fruition.

Huh? An inferior version of one old game would do that?! LOL...deluded. Additionally, I don't buy it. However, I could see a Soul Calibur-related title hit the system.

Maybe if you're stoned.

Dude, I'm stoned right this moment and the thought of SC1 on DS sounds ridiculously poor no matter how much effort and money they could throw at such a project. As someone has already mentioned, Soul Edge (Blade) could certainly happen (technically) and maybe even look significantly better than the original. Original 3D fighters that would take advantage of the system's possibilities would be a much better idea, anyway.

 

[Jacobi]

Interesting...could be Soul Blade as well.

 

[Bluemercury]

SC on DS is doable, but won't look anything like the DC version.

Some comparasins:

DC................................................DS
16MB just for System RAM..............4MB of total RAM
DX6/7 level graphic FXs.................can't even do texture filtering and alphas
Multi-million triangles/sec...............low 100,000 polygons per second

Seriously, even if you account for the resolution difference, no way in hell DS will replicate DC SC, let alone "look and sound every bit as good as its Dreamcast counterpart". Maybe if you're stoned.

100.000 polygons? so its worse than n64?lol

 

[Shogmaster]

100.000 polygons? so its worse than n64?lol

It's right around N64, which is rated around 120,000+ PPS, just like the DS.

 

[Sho Nuff]

If this one does indeed come true, the DS's dominance over the PSP may infact come to fruition.

Nice wishful thinking there, sparky

 

[Bluemercury]

It's right around N64, which is rated around 120,000+ PPS, just like the DS.

From what i've read it seems that the consensus was or is that the DS is actually better than N64.....at least pushing polygons.

 

[Shogmaster]

From what i've read it seems that the consensus was or is that the DS is actually better than N64.....at least pushing polygons.

At calculating geometry? Yes. At rendering polygons? No.

 

[Panajev2001a]

At calculating geometry? Yes. At rendering polygons? No.

You have got it half reversed.

The N64' RSP can actually push quite a lot more than 120K polygons/s using custom micro-code and while it is true that the color Combiner in the GPU was quite nice, but due to the fact that the RAMBUS RAM had such bad latency couple with the fact that there was little you could do to soften the impact of memory latency on your applications you were limited by the fill-rate way before you peaked in T&L performance.

Z-buffering was supposed to be free on N64, but thanks to the RAM speed it ended up basically halving your fill-rate.

Still, there is NO way you can push advanced Dreamcast quality graphics (oul Calibur managed to push the system nicely, it even had bump-mapped surfaces) on DS in real-time: 3D backgrounds and 3D characters, not even accounting for the smaller screen.

 

[Shogmaster]

You have got it half reversed.

The N64' RSP can actually push quite a lot more than 120K polygons/s using custom micro-code and while it is true that the color Combiner in the GPU was quite nice, but due to the fact that the RAMBUS RAM had such bad latency couple with the fact that there was little you could do to soften the impact of memory latency on your applications you were limited by the fill-rate way before you peaked in T&L performance.

Are you telling me N64 could calculate 4 million vertices per second like DS? Come on.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Are you telling me N64 could calculate 4 million vertices per second like DS? Come on.

The DS processes those vertices in software, no hardwired T&L or real Vector units to boast about.

The N64 had an FPU and a quite nice RSP chip which was a neat fixed-point vector unit.

DS does 4M Vertices... yeah with no perspective projection or anything.

With about PSOne quality graphics (which is about what the DS does considering the advantage of the smaller screen and icnreased pixel density) the RSP could push between 500-600K polygons/s, but the N64's fill-rate could not keep up with that.

 

[deadhorse32]

Some dev'ing info about DS http://andreas.abi-2005.org/pgforum/thread.php?threadid=15637

edit : if the info i just post are true

The DS processes those vertices in software, no hardwired T&L or real Vector units to boast about.

you are wrong Matrix operation ( and other T&L ) are done in hardware

 

[Panajev2001a]

Some dev'ing info about DS http://andreas.abi-2005.org/pgforum/thread.php?threadid=15637

edit : if the info i just post are true



you are wrong Matrix operation ( and other T&L ) are done in hardware

Amazing, Hardware T&L and they peak at 120k polygons per second without perspective texture correction ?

Did they steal the GTE from PSOne ?

 

[Shogmaster]

The DS processes those vertices in software, no hardwired T&L or real Vector units to boast about.

Can a 66Mhz ARM 9 do 4M vertices/sec in software?

The N64 had an FPU and a quite nice RSP chip which was a neat fixed-point vector unit.

But as you say, it's only rated @ 500~600K. That's far below 4M.

DS does 4M Vertices... yeah with no perspective projection or anything.

Is that confirmed or speculation?

With about PSOne quality graphics (which is about what the DS does considering the advantage of the smaller screen and icnreased pixel density) the RSP could push between 500-600K polygons/s, but the N64's fill-rate could not keep up with that.

DS is abit better than PSOne in FXs. I saw some nice environment mapping FXs that seemed much better than anything I remember on the PSOne.

 

[Miburou]

SC arcade on DS is more believable.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That document seems saying that there is a hardware T&L unit in the GPU (very good, off-loads cycles from the ARM9 processor if true).

It could also be interpreted as list of function calls which fall-back to the CPU.

just becaue I give you a black box with upport for OpenGL (example) it doe not mean that everything is supported in Hardware on the GPU.

With a hardware T&L unit you are calculating all you need for perspective correction: you have Q (1 / W) and moving from UV to ST coordinates is a cost that is pretty negligible, but DS games have shown to miss perspective correction (which can be hidden, as PSOne developers did, by tessellating the geometry in a finer way).

Why would that be ?

 

[GDGF]

Lotsa reasons why the NDS is going to be more successful than the PSP, but an imaginary Soul Caliber DS isn't going to be one of them. I'll file this one under 'I'll believe it when I see it.'

 

[Panajev2001a]

Can a 66Mhz ARM 9 do 4M vertices/sec in software?

Can it do 4 Million "Matrix * Vertex" operations per second ? Yes, never tested it myself, but I have done my share of "asking around" .

It makes some sense judging the performance of the integer MAC unit the ARM9 chips have.

Does that come with any perspective projection calculation, lighting and texture coordinates generation ? No, hence the drop-off to 120 K polygons/s.

But as you say, it's only rated @ 500~600K. That's far below 4M.

But it is also submitting full polygons to the GPU.

If I told you that the EE does 102.85 Million polygons/s you would doubt me, but it is true that that is the peak rate VU0 + VU1 can process 4x4 Matrix * 4x1 Vector operations: yes, it is meaningless in terms of graphics you can visualize on screen, but who cares .

Is that confirmed or speculation?

According to that leaked Nitro sheet it is pretty much beyond the simple status of speculation.

DS is abit better than PSOne in FXs. I saw some nice environment mapping FXs that seemed much better than anything I remember on the PSOne.

I do not think so: I have yet to see the DS wow me like Final Fantasy VIII's GFs did .

 

[Shogmaster]

Can it do 4 Million "Matrix * Vertex" operations per second ? Yes, never tested it myself, but I have done my share of "asking around" .

It makes some sense judging the performance of the integer MAC unit the ARM9 chips have.

Does that come with any perspective projection calculation, lighting and texture coordinates generation ? No, hence the drop-off to 120 K polygons/s.

If the T and L in DS is indeed hardware like Milhouse says, maybe the drop off is from the raster portion of the pipeline.

But it is also submitting full polygons to the GPU.

How do you know that DS's T and L unit isn't?

If I told you that the EE does 102.85 Million polygons/s you would doubt me, but it is true that that is the peak rate VU0 + VU1 can process 4x4 Matrix * 4x1 Vector operations: yes, it is meaningless in terms of graphics you can visualize on screen, but who cares .

That's not that far from the 77M quoted by Sony. It's plenty believable.

According to that leaked Nitro sheet it is pretty much beyond the simple status of speculation.

It just seems like if it's not Sony hardware, you go for the worst assumption.

I do not think so: I have yet to see the DS wow me like Final Fantasy VIII's GFs did .

Remember the chrome FXs in some of those DS demo videos? I never saw anything like that in FF8.

 

[doncale]

the DS could do a good version of Soul Edge.

but not a replica of System 12 Soul Calibur, much less a replica of DC Soul Calibur.

 

[Panajev2001a]

If the T and L in DS is indeed hardware like Milhouse says, maybe the drop off is from the raster portion of the pipeline.

I hope not, I cannot imagine the GPU designer which a fast T&L pipe and attached a 120K polygons/s Triangle set-up unit.

That's not that far from the 77M quoted by Sony. It's plenty believable.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.... no and for similar reasons why the 75 Million polygons/s is not.

First, it is 75 MVertices/s without textures and with flat-shading (with triangle strips we can get close to the desired 1:1 Vertex to Triangle Ratio).

There is not enough bandwidth on the GIF-to-GS bus for that many polygons: the drawable on screen number is quite lower than that.

Hence why Sony advertised as theoretical maximum (still, you would not see shit on screen) 66 Mvertices/s.

It just seems like if it's not Sony hardware, you go for the worst assumption.

You missed the B3D topics in which I feared for two cycles bi-linear .

Remember the chrome FXs in some of those DS demo videos? I never saw anything like that in FF8.

I saw better .

GT1-GT2 had nice environment mapping for the time and so did Crash Bandicoot 2-3 IIRC, scale them to a lower screen and they will not look so bad.

 

[Culex]

Panajev2001a, since you're obviously knowlegable about programming, what's your take on the Sonic demo for DS at E3? Did it impress you at all considering the limiting hardware?

 

[Shogmaster]

I hope not, I cannot imagine the GPU designer which a fast T&L pipe and attached a 120K polygons/s Triangle set-up unit.

Me neither, but the point is, we don't know which way it is.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.... no and for similar reasons why the 75 Million polygons/s is not.

First, it is 75 MVertices/s without textures and with flat-shading (with triangle strips we can get close to the desired 1:1 Vertex to Triangle Ratio).

There is not enough bandwidth on the GIF-to-GS bus for that many polygons: the drawable on screen number is quite lower than that.

Hence why Sony advertised as theoretical maximum (still, you would not see shit on screen) 66 Mvertices/s.

HOHOHOHOHOHOHO.... Who said anything about drawing all those polys on screen? I said it's belivable that if the EE was made to do nothing but simple matrix geometry calculation like you said, it's belivable that it could hit 100M or so vertices per second.

You missed the B3D topics in which I feared for two cycles bi-linear .

I'm sure it was a barn burner.

I saw better .

Please do tell.

GT1-GT2 had nice environment mapping for the time and so did Crash Bandicoot 2-3 IIRC, scale them to a lower screen and they will not look so bad.

Gimme a break. What's those got to do with examples of better than the DS demos environment mapping FXs?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Panajev2001a, since you're obviously knowlegable about programming, what's your take on the Sonic demo for DS at E3? Did it impress you at all considering the limiting hardware?

It did impress me, nice motion blur effect, nice polygon count, good sense of speed.

The Ds is a nice machine, it surely has a MUCH much better memory sub-system than the N64 which makes it possible to leverage the fill-rate of the machine (the whole system can be more efficiently used).

Still, even that showed intances of lack of texture filtering and texture warping.

I think the DS will be able, with some attention and care, to port very nicely N64 games even with some enhancements here and there in some cases, but do not dream a perfect port of Dreamcast Soul Calibur on the DS, because it is out of the DS's league.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Me neither, but the point is, we don't know which way it is.



HOHOHOHOHOHOHO.... Who said anything about drawing all those polys on screen? I said it's belivable that if the EE was made to do nothing but simple matrix geometry calculation like you said, it's belivable that it could hit 100M or so vertices per second.

Sony's number was not believable as an accurate portrayal of what you would get on screen: add textures and goraud shading and the GS falls down to about 25-30 MVertices/s.

I'm sure it was a barn burner.

I got chastized by Fafalada for Deadmeat logic (tm) .

Gimme a break. What's those got to do with examples of better than the DS demos environment mapping FXs?

Because those two games used environemnt mapping ?!?

 

[Culex]

All we need is a ported wifi version of Goldeneye or Perfect Dark and I'm sold.

 

[Shogmaster]

Because those two games used environemnt mapping ?!?

Sure, but better? Come on.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sure, but better? Come on.

In Crash Bandicoot 2-3, yeah pretty much .

 

[Shogmaster]

In Crash Bandicoot 2-3, yeah pretty much .

I demand pics!

 

[sprsk]

sounds like fanboy wet dreams.

 

[Soul4ger]

If this one does indeed come true, the DS's dominance over the PSP may infact come to fruition.

Just like Soul Calibur helped the Dreamcast dominate the PS2!

 

[xsarien]

if that were true, wouldn't all DS games look as good as DC games?

Regardless of whether or not the Soul Calibur port rumor is true, this argument holds zero water. It always, always depends on the talents of the developer.

 

[MacGuffin]

SC on DS is doable, but won't look anything like the DC version.

Some comparasins:

DC................................................DS
16MB just for System RAM..............4MB of total RAM
DX6/7 level graphic FXs.................can't even do texture filtering and alphas
Multi-million triangles/sec...............low 100,000 polygons per second

Seriously, even if you account for the resolution difference, no way in hell DS will replicate DC SC, let alone "look and sound every bit as good as its Dreamcast counterpart". Maybe if you're stoned.

This is due to both new compression technologies and techniques, and the fact that the less complex that textures, character models, and environments are, the less space they consume. Since the DS's screen resolution is quite a bit smaller than a TV's resolution, that means lower res textures and less polygons can be used to create highend visuals.
-Original Post

The screen is smaller so you obviously don't need as many polygons per second...they even went as far to say that.

 

[Hero]

I believe this news.

Remember all of those Soul Calibur GBA rumors a few years ago?

I always wondered what happened to that. Perhaps Namco decided to scrap that and wait until Nintendo put out the DS, considering it's 4 face plate buttons.

 

[MAZYORA]

http://www.nintendo-evolved.com/article.php?artid=1599

According to certain people in close contact with Namco, the prestigious development and publishing company has plans to port over the Dreamcast version of SoulCalibur to Nintendo's new handheld, the DS.

The source claims that the DS version of SoulCalibur will look and sound every bit as good as its Dreamcast counterpart.

This is due to both new compression technologies and techniques, and the fact that the less complex that textures, character models, and environments are, the less space they consume. Since the DS's screen resolution is quite a bit smaller than a TV's resolution, that means lower res textures and less polygons can be used to create highend visuals.

If this one does indeed come true, the DS's dominance over the PSP may infact come to fruition.

We will have more on this rumor as it becomes available.

I don't believe this rumour. What about combo's?

My guess is Namco will just port over the system 12 version of Soul Calibur to DS and include all of the SC DC version extras.

 

[dark10x]

I don't think the DS is even capable of handling the System 12 version at full speed...

 

[MAZYORA]

I don't think the DS is even capable of handling the System 12 version at full speed...

Is it possible for me to post anything without you replying?

 

[dark10x]

Is it possible for me to post anything without you replying?

I know you'd like to believe it, but you're not special. I didn't even notice that I had replied to a post of yours, to be quite honest. I reply to MANY people on a daily basis.

 

[Brofist]

I'd rather see a brand new SC game on PSP or DS.