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[Ninja Scooter]

please. Pirating was much more prevalent on the PSone and that didn't seem to hurt things. There is a very good reason the Dreamcast didn't become as big as the Genesis: The market in 1999 was not nearly the same as the market in 1989.

 

[Dave Long]

HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW



Translated from the stupidest-motherfucker-living-ese: "Hello! I am the stupidest motherfucker living!"

DFS.

I just gotta say. This put me on the floor in stitches.

 

[aoi tsuki]

When a company with a huge debt like Sega has their software revenues cut off by self booting games for Christ sake, that hurts.

There's no way to accurately determine how many people were pirating versus buying games outright, but i'd consider it a big factor in DC's demise, especially in the US. PS was enjoying low development costs and a high number of installed consoles, neither of which DC could claim. i remember working at a mall Gamestop and hearing customers talk about pirating games. There were even a few selling pirated copies in a couple of other stores at the same mall. Whether or not pirating single-handedly killed the system isn't the issue. It simply didn't help Sega, who had their share of problems since the launch of the system. Don't even get me started on the PS2 hype (much of which was false) that started six months into the DC's life...

 

[goodcow]

And the warez "market" was much different not only in 2000 as opposed to 1995, but for the Dreamcast compared to other systems as well.

SELF BOOTING NO MOD CHIP REQUIRED games opened the door to CASUAL piracy. No modification needed, no risk, pop it in and play. You're delusional if you think the piracy rate wasn't higher because of this fact.

Secondly, the Internet was much, much more prevelant during the Dreamcast's lifetime as opposed to the PlayStation's, so piracy was easier due to file swapping. PSOne piracy involved renting a game and burning it (costly), or just buying a bootleg from somebody. (also costly)

With P2P and Usenet and broadband connections, all one had to do was download a game and burn it. (cheaply) Plus it would SELF BOOT. I don't care i you don't think that fact wasn't an important one, it was, and I'm going to continually drill that home. Hell, I've never modded a system, nor will I ever, but I downloaded Shenmue 2 after I'd placed my order for the legit copy from Game Express because I couldn't wait anymore, and I'd legally purchased it, and was waiting for it to arrive in the mail. I would've never done so if I needed to mod my system.

I'm also going to bed now, so if you'd like to argue this further, I won't be able to until morning.

 

[aoi tsuki]

The funny thing is, in an ABC News (Nightline IIRC) report, they did a piece on internet piracy. The kid they profiled talked about downloading games, music, movies, and how easy it was. The game he spoke about downloading was Samba de Amigo.

 

[puck1337]

And the warez "market" was much different not only in 2000 as opposed to 1995, but for the Dreamcast compared to other systems as well.

SELF BOOTING NO MOD CHIP REQUIRED games opened the door to CASUAL piracy. No modification needed, no risk, pop it in and play. You're delusional if you think the piracy rate wasn't higher because of this fact.

Secondly, the Internet was much, much more prevelant during the Dreamcast's lifetime as opposed to the PlayStation's, so piracy was easier due to file swapping. PSOne piracy involved renting a game and burning it (costly), or just buying a bootleg from somebody. (also costly)

With P2P and Usenet and broadband connections, all one had to do was download a game and burn it. (cheaply) Plus it would SELF BOOT. I don't care i you don't think that fact wasn't an important one, it was, and I'm going to continually drill that home. Hell, I've never modded a system, nor will I ever, but I downloaded Shenmue 2 after I'd placed my order for the legit copy from Game Express because I couldn't wait anymore, and I'd legally purchased it, and was waiting for it to arrive in the mail. I would've never done so if I needed to mod my system.

I'm also going to bed now, so if you'd like to argue this further, I won't be able to until morning.

Your arguments all apply to the gaming enthusiast market. The average casual user didn't jump onto Usenet or IRC to grab Dreamcast ISOs. They didn't buy a Dreamcast at all.

And THAT'S why it was dead on arrival.

In fact, if piracy was such a huge problem, system sales would have been through the roof, since so many people would have bought one expressly for the purpose of playing pirated games. That did not happen - well, not until the system went on permanent fire sale.

The fact is, Sega was out-marketed, out-hustled, and out-planned by Sony. Piracy was only a drop in the bucket, and wouldn't have mattered an iota if Sega had been healthy to begin with.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Everyone I knew who had a Dreamcast knew how to pirate the games. Hardcore or otherwise. Self-booting ISOs simply weren't possible on PSX and it made it that much more difficult for people to pirate, especially to those without access to specialty modchip resources.

 

[Kintaro]

Hmmm, I'd buy another Sega console for as much fun as I had in the short time DC lived. No question about it.

 

[CoryCubed]

I definently would. I diverted all my Sega energy to Nintendo when Dreamcast suffered alzheimers and parkinsons and was incapable of thinking.

 

[dorio]

Talk about throwing your money away. Dumb move Sega.

 

[Lazy8s]

Discussed this elsewhere; I'll just repost:

The only "clue" from that list with any substance is #3. Satomi and the board is actually making consideration on the markets that the new company will address and how the company will go about it. With their resources, they're not content with just becoming an ordinary third-party publisher. Hardware is already a huge part of the company's operation as they manufacture the standard in boards for the pachinko, arcade, and related markets. They may not start up a new hardware business that goes into direct competition with the Sonys and Microsofts, yet they may still try some plan that ambitiously uses their resources to get them in something hardware-related.

 

[XS+]

Sega fanboys are hilarious.

Or embarrassing, depending on what side of the fence you're on.

 

[Stuggernaut]

I'll agree with GC here...

Just about every person I knew that had a DC downloaded games for it. Especially when self-booting tech came out. Jesus you could buy games on Ebay before they were released, you have hundreds and hundreds of web pages dedicated to DC ISOs. It was super easy to find direct off the web downloads, or ORC links, or FTP servers loaded with games with less than 2-3 searches on Google. Hell I remember seeing sites that had 50+ games you could DL directly and all you had to do was burn a CD and boom. They even came with cover art for your cases or CD labels. As soon as the self boot tech arrived (Kalisto??) EVERY SINGLE DC game was pirated. No mod needed. All you needed was to be able to type DC ISO in google, and know how to burn a CD.

Lots of people just stopped buying games and the system suffered...A LOT. If you are thinking it was marginal, then that is your own loss.

Coupled with horrible marketing, a Anti-Sega stigma in the market already, and an all around run of bad game choices, bad luck, and bad business decisions and it spelled doom for the DC.

 

[Koshiro]

No.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I just want to see all Sega games on one platform again. Going multiplatform divided resources, meant they couldn't pool talent, and killed off some franchises by putting them on the wrong platform. It also divided their fanbase. Not every Sega fan can afford all 3 systems, or wants to buy all 3 in the first place.

I don't care if they go Nintendo exclusive, or Sony exclusive, or even arcade exclusive with a NeoGeo-style home-system for the ports and PSO. Their 3rd party plan as it stands just hasn't worked. And the multiplatform releases have been a bit shoddy to say the least.

Decide on a platform Sega, and stick with it!

 

[XS+]

I just want to see all Sega games on one platform again. Going multiplatform divided resources, meant they couldn't pool talent, and killed off some franchises by putting them on the wrong platform.

I don't care if they go Nintendo exclusive, or Sony exclusive, or even arcade exclusive with a NeoGeo-style home-system for the ports and PSO. Their 3rd party plan as it stands just hasn't worked. And the multiplatform releases have been a bit shoddy to say the least.

Decide on a platform Sega, and stick with it!

Exactly. And why should I be expected to fully support all platforms if I don't agree with the current situation Sega's in? I backed Sega and DC to the fullest (no pirated software in my library), and if Sega decides to go the 'all Sega on one platform' route again, I'll fully support that venture with my money.

 

[pestul]

Even the individuals who couldn't pirate DC games for whatever reason, almost always had a friend who was capable..

 

[jarrod]

If it was as good as the Saturn*, I would totally support any system Sega made.


*including the controller

Fixed.

 

[sprsk]

those are the dumbest clues i've ever read in my life.

I've got a good one


39: Sega announced a new console yesterday called the final nail in the coffin. Just when you thought sega was getting back on their feet they listened to internet fanboys and fucked themselves over again

I'm fine with sega as a 3rd party. I think the days of the super creative sega are over though

 

[Kiriku]

And why should I be expected to fully support all platforms if I don't agree with the current situation Sega's in?

Just like a real football fan would follow his team no matter what, even if they fall through divisions, a Real Sega fan should never be hesitant to buy all platforms Sega are developing for. I'm just saying, if you don't buy all the consoles Sega are developing exclusive games for, you're not a Real Sega fan. That's my definition of a Real, Hardcore Sega fan, then it's up to other people to say whether they live up to the criterias or not. I mean, you could simply say you're not a Real Sega fan and be done with it.

 

[FightyF]

The game he spoke about downloading was Samba de Amigo.

Heh, the game that needs another peripheral for full enjoyment...pirated.

I'm a SEGA fan, and at first I thought that multi-console was a good idea. SEGA could create different games that would take advantage of the different advantages the console offers. The GC's primary advantage is it's userbase, that is willing to try most things interesting. The PS2's is it's massive userbase, so sports games and some big name titles will sell decent. The Xbox with it's Live service and power.

But I realized that if they stuck to one console...they may have release way more games. They may have more loyal fans. I currently view SEGA like other 3rd parties such as Ubisoft, or Activision...it's losing it's "fanboyish" qualities in many ways.

I honestly think they should stick with Nintendo next generation. Besides giving me a reason to buy the console, it will give SEGA fans the piece of mind that they will be able to get all of their games on it. Nintendo's userbase is open to SEGA games, moreso than Sony/MS's which seems to overlook titles like Panzer Dragoon, Shinobi (did ok actually, but compared to the entire userbase?). SEGA could also help Nintendo with the online aspect, having experience with SEGANet.

I can go on and on, but I'd be taking this thread off topic. I think there are many reasons for SEGA to do this. The only multiplatform titles should be the sports games...that's it.

 

[XS+]

Just like a real football fan would follow his team no matter what, even if they fall through divisions, a Real Sega fan should never be hesitant to buy all platforms Sega are developing for. I'm just saying, if you don't buy all the consoles Sega are developing exclusive games for, you're not a Real Sega fan. That's my definition of a Real, Hardcore Sega fan, then it's up to other people to say whether they live up to the criterias or not. I mean, you could simply say you're not a Real Sega fan and be done with it.

Bull. You HAVE to draw the line somewhere. I'd like more than anything else to own every 3D Sega arcade cabinet and put them in my living room. But price, space, preference and common sense sometimes get in the way of that tired 'truegamerdom' BS that Gamefan shoveled back in the day.

An existing 'Sega platform' in this almost-nightmarish generation calls for $400+ worth of 3 unsightly consoles occupying valuable AV/power cable input in your entertainment center, supporting companies real Sega fans were taught to despise Not with my money. I'll just continue to bum off of my friends' consoles till Sega gives me what I want.

 

[Kiriku]

Bull. You HAVE to draw the line somewhere.

And that's exactly what I've done. Then it's up to other people to say whether or not they match the criterias set by me, which in turn would make it possible for me to come to a conclusion if I consider a person to be a Real Sega fan or not. Of course, other people may have totally different criterias, but I thought that was pretty obvious.
And personally I'm nowhere near a Real Sega fan.

 

[Shinobi]

Just like a real football fan would follow his team no matter what, even if they fall through divisions, a Real Sega fan should never be hesitant to buy all platforms Sega are developing for. I'm just saying, if you don't buy all the consoles Sega are developing exclusive games for, you're not a Real Sega fan. That's my definition of a Real, Hardcore Sega fan, then it's up to other people to say whether they live up to the criterias or not. I mean, you could simply say you're not a Real Sega fan and be done with it.

That's just stupid. Very few Sega fans bought every single game they made, just cause it had Sega on the box. You've got some Sega fans that love their arcade games, others that love their RPG's, and still others that love their sports or racing games. There's no law saying that they all have to mix. I didn't touch the Phantasy Star series or any Sega RPG on the SMS, Genny, Saturn or DC, so WTF am I gonna buy a Gamecube just to play PSO Card Battle or whatever the fuck it's called?

A REAL Sega fan buys the Sega games that they want to play. They don't buy them just to collect.

There isn't even a point yapping about these silly rumours. There is no room for four consoles in the marketplace, so that's all there is to it. Quite frankly, I'm not sure it's been proved that there's enough room for three.

Sega was 12 to 18 months behind everyone else when they made the move to third party, and it cost them dearly (particularly on PS2). They won't have that issue this time around. Chances are they'll make fewer games, but make more of those games available on mutiple platforms, only offering exclusives on a one off or if a manufacturer feels like buying up a game. In that vein, Naomi 3 helps with that process...do R&D on that hardware now, and prep yourself for the new consoles that'll be in the same ballpark in terms of poly output. Plus Sega wants to have full control in the one market they've ALWAYS done well in (and ironically, the one market that almost everyone else has sucked in), the arcade sector. So that means getting their own board, instead of licensing some console inards with a bunch of strings attached to force certain games on one platform or off another. But that's as far as Naomi 3 goes...as much as I'd love to see a new Sega console, it simply isn't going to happen (unless they take the Neo Geo approach...but I don't think that's a viable option).

 

[Kiriku]

That's just stupid.

Never said it wasn't.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

"Just like a real football fan would follow his team no matter what, even if they fall through divisions, a Real Sega fan should never be hesitant to buy all platforms Sega are developing for. I'm just saying, if you don't buy all the consoles Sega are developing exclusive games for, you're not a Real Sega fan."


Thats Leafs Fan logic. Fuck if people only stopped watching them when they suck then the Owners might actually try to make the team better and lower the ticket prices.

I buy systems with good games. If sega makes another crap sega cd,32x or even a saturn i for sure would not buy it. Sega fans in NA got screwed over with the saturn.