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[Peggies]

I don't like this. As a European I'm seriously worried. I just had a baby and thought worrying about climate change, IS and Corona was enough. But now it's WW3.

 

[Amiga]

In Ukraine as in many in Eastern Europe there are Russia aligned populations that don't like the west. Slavic heritage and Orthodox Christianity play a part but also other things. So if NATO intervenes directly they would be fighting pro-Russia Ukrainian citizens. To avoid that the option is to supply the Pro-Nato government so they can do the fighting themselves. But seems the Ukrainian government don't have the capacity to stop the regions because it will require offense and not just defense. So they want more commitment from NATO in an attacking capacity.

 

[jufonuk]

Covid world coming together. Nearly out of covid. Welcome the shit show

 

[jason10mm]

Well that's the fundamental weakness of democracies when dealing with scum like Putin, they have a natural tendancy to put their heads in the sand for as long as humanely possible and just hope they go away. When they don't, the shit show that ensues is always far,far worse than what would have been the case if they'd just faced the reality, sooner.

I think this is a critical concept of democracies. There will ALWAYS be dictator or dictator-adjacent rulers, when do you step in and when do you let the country solve it internally? I think a fundamental issue a democratic nation needs to justify going to war is whether the citizens of the targeted nation failed to solve the problem and are now culpable for the military response, which naturally affects non combatants disproportionately to military elements. So by letting Russia keep put in around for so long means the Russian citizens must approve of his actions, at least in part, so the punishment coming is deserved.

I don't this this is necessarily true, mind you, but it is part of the story democracies tell themselves when they go to war.

 

[chromhound]

Germany Halts Nord Stream 2 In Major Sign Impending Russia Sanctions Will Be "Tough". So gas price will go higher...

 

[Cyberpunkd]

In Ukraine as in many in Eastern Europe there are Russia aligned populations that don't like the west. Slavic heritage and Orthodox Christianity play a part but also other things. So if NATO intervenes directly they would be fighting pro-Russia Ukrainian citizens. To avoid that the option is to supply the Pro-Nato government so they can do the fighting themselves. But seems the Ukrainian government don't have the capacity to stop the regions because it will require offense and not just defense. So they want more commitment from NATO in an attacking capacity.

NATO will never intervene in Ukraine, since the country is not a member. And things like these are the reason why it never will: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

 

[Rest]

Well they’ve already entered Ukraine now. Clever how they laid the groundwork years ago by posting troops in those separatist areas- now world leaders (including our own) won’t yet call this an invasion even though that’s what exactly what we’re seeing

I don't think this is unique. Has Russia declared war? Everyone knows what's happening, but Russia gets the benefit of the doubt until their plausible deniability is spent. That will take a day or two, maybe a couple weeks at most.

When Germany invaded Poland, other governments didn't call it World War II right away. Germany was just invading Poland until everyone declared war on each other.

 

[Rest]

If we look back through the smoldering ruins and this turns out to have been the prelude to WW3...well, it's been an honor, ladies and gents.

The nukes aren't dropping yet. Just think, if China gets pulled in and gambles on a land invasion of the US, you may even be able to defend your own community as a resistance fighter.

 

[MadAnon]

Germany Halts Nord Stream 2 In Major Sign Impending Russia Sanctions Will Be "Tough". So gas price will go higher...

Are you talking about the same pipe which was still being built even after the whole Crimea occupation thingy? If people actually think that Germany is serious about halting this project completely then I have a bridge to sell you. at best, it will be temporarly. No idea how you people still believe these stupid "severe economic sanctions" rethoric from the west.

 

[Raven117]

This is insane.

The west absolutely needs to take some severe action here. Yes, Ukraine is under attack, but also the entire post ww2 power structure where the west basically divided up and ran the world. China in particular is licking its chops eyeing Taiwan if Russia is allowed to do this.

The west is under attack.

 

[IDKFA]

The situation in the region is complex. Many people in the Donbas region want to be part of Russia and speak Russian as a first language. Last night people in the region celebrated with fireworks and by waving Russian flags. The region isn't 100% pro Russian or is a majority ethic Russian population (hard to say when no census has been conducted since 2001), but a big chunk of people living in Donbas are happy that Putin has recognised them as independent states.

With that said, I absolutely do not agree with Putin's course of actions or think that Russia have a right to that region.

in terms of Sanctions, Putin would have already considered this. I'm sure he knows all types of sanctions that would be imposed, yet he continued anyway. Sanctions won't stop him, but I'm not sure what will.

it's easy to suggest war, but I don't think the West would pull trigger. I certainly don't want to see a war and I'm sure we all fell the same. I really don't have a solution to the problem.

One other point. The CCP are sure to be watching this situation. If they see weakness in the West then they'll probably start their take over of Taiwan.

 

[Amiga]

Germany Halts Nord Stream 2 In Major Sign Impending Russia Sanctions Will Be "Tough". So gas price will go higher...

Germany needs gas more than Russia needs money. Could be a momentary gesture to cool others in Europe more than "punishing" Russia.

 

[Punished Miku]

This is insane.

The west absolutely needs to take some severe action here. Yes, Ukraine is under attack, but also the entire post ww2 power structure where the west basically divided up and ran the world. China in particular is licking its chops eyeing Taiwan if Russia is allowed to do this.

The west is under attack.

Personally, I think this is the reality hitting people in the face finally that we have multiple power centers in the world and the US can't run everything when they make as many unforced errors as they do.

China can take Taiwan, and honestly that's just how it's going to go down. Everyone will wring their hands and moan, but we'll just watch it like Hong Kong. And the reality is that anything short of a nuclear war is not going to stop that, and a nuclear war just kills everyone. Similar situation here with Ukraine. NATO has expanded quite a bit since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and this was seen as a provocation the entire time from the Russian perspective. Anything short of a nuclear war will not stop this, and no one is going to do that.

The west will defend actual NATO territory though, and Ukraine is not that.

So what happens is we all just watch and swallow the bitter pill while the world readjusts to multiple powers that can exert influence. If the US wants to better their position in the world in the future, they need to invest in their own country in terms of manufacturing, infrastructure investment, education investment, clean energy independence investments, and strong laws that reign in corporations and demand a certain amount of national interest.

 

[\m/etalStorm]

Germany needs gas more than Russia needs money. Could be a momentary gesture to cool others in Europe more than "punishing" Russia.

Germany only punishes itself, as costs for gas and electricity are already the highest in the world. But what do you expect from a authoritarian-left government, who hates its citizens. Russians will just ship their gas to China.

 

[DrAspirino]

This is insane.

The west absolutely needs to take some severe action here. Yes, Ukraine is under attack, but also the entire post ww2 power structure where the west basically divided up and ran the world. China in particular is licking its chops eyeing Taiwan if Russia is allowed to do this.

Are germans (and europeans) willing to overpay for gas they desperately need? Moreover, are they willing to reopen their nuclear plant, backtracking the whole "greener" and "safer" narrative they've been championing for decades?

If they aren't, then it's Moscow's game. As simple as that. If you live in Germany, that'd mean a raise in electricity and gas bills...and a hefty one I might add.

Germany needs gas more than Russia needs money. Could be a momentary gesture to cool others in Europe more than "punishing" Russia.

My thoughts exactly.

One other point. The CCP are sure to be watching this situation. If they see weakness in the West then they'll probably start their take over of Taiwan.

That won't happen until China is absolutely and completely sure their factories are able to supply the demand for microchips, because if for any reason China invades Taiwan, you can bet that the taiwanese WILL burn down and sabotage their own factories, so China don't take them as spoils of war.

 

[chromhound]

Germany needs gas more than Russia needs money. Could be a momentary gesture to cool others in Europe more than "punishing" Russia.

probably : Russia Warns Of "Brave New World" Of Higher Gas Prices After Germany Halts Nord Stream 2

 

[Hypereides]

Putin is legitimately out of his mind. He has shown to be nothing more than an actual mafia boss under the guise of a political figure.

It struck me as perculiar how China was the only country that didn't condemn the Russian escalation at the late night emergency meeting calls.

Howcome Russia is invading Ukraine?
What are they hoping to gain/achieve?

It seems like a historical move to regain the former USSR territory. Russia have supposedly been trying to remotely influence Ukraine for a while now by instating pro-Russian figures in high ranking positions. Now they chose to say "fuck it, we'll just take it instead".

Russian doesn't need to invade Ukraine, it wants the country in a fragile state and disorganized as a buffer zone with the EU and NATO.

There's already been a string of curious hacking incidents aimed at Ukrainian institutes in tandem with the Russian escalation. Likely to destabilize and weaken the country's infrastructure.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Are germans (and europeans) willing to overpay for gas they desperately need? Moreover, are they willing to reopen their nuclear plant, backtracking the whole "greener" and "safer" narrative they've been championing for decades?

France is pushing ahead with more nuclear reactors.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I am equally surprised nobody tried to show Russia by rejecting the West they become more dependent on China.

Sounds reasonable, but maybe Russia and China are such good buddies they are willing to assume that risk.

Weaken Ukraine and keep it that way to act as a buffer between Russian and the EU/NATO. Which is why they do not want the country in joining any of these arganizations.

I dont follow this Russia/Ukraine conflict, but I remember some articles saying Russia wants Ukraine back for its resources and economy. Who knows. You'd think Russia is so giant there's endless resources to mine, but Ukraine has it and is all set up with people and infrastructure.

 

[Airbus Jr]

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Sounds reasonable, but maybe Russia and China are such good buddies they are willing to assume that risk.

The reason this will not happen is incredibly simple and racist - Russians will never accept to be dominated by Asians (or any country for that matter).

 

[Hari Seldon]

They have a lot of troops deployed to just send more into Donbas. I'm thinking that this is not over. I read that they have an entire armada in the black sea ready for some type of sea landing.

 

[Alebrije]

It seems Putin was just waiting the end of Beijing Winter Games ...

 

[EverydayBeast]

Here’s a picture of Russia 20, 30 years ago.

 

[chromhound]

It seems Putin was just waiting the end of Beijing Winter Games ...

And China is waiting to see how the world reacts before doing the same to Taiwan hmmm?

 

[Kraz]

Russia’s population undergoes largest ever peacetime decline, analysis shows

Analysis finds natural population fell by 997,000 between October 2020 and September 2021 – with Covid cited as principal cause

www.theguardian.com

The biggest existential threat to and killer of Russians seems to be their own government and its policies. Russian leaders showing the world the way!

 

[Rest]

I don't like this. As a European I'm seriously worried. I just had a baby and thought worrying about climate change, IS and Corona was enough. But now it's WW3.

As an American I don't like this shit. We're threatening to jump in, and if we don't we will expend a LOT of international political capital by not doing so. And if we do? How many Russians do we have to kill for Pooty-Poot to give up? Probably a lot more than the American people are willing to kill. Going to war and giving up early, like we've been doing for the last 60 years, just wastes lives and resources and doesn't resolve the issues that we claim to want to solve. If we jump in and don't take this thing through to its conclusion we will end many lives, ruin many lives, and not make the world a better place for having done it. And I don't anticipate Russia will let the US take the brunt of its ire towards NATO, a coalition war in Ukraine likely means a widespread land war in Europe, which will suck a lot for everyone involved.

This is all bullshit.

 

[miles118]

I was sick of seeing Russians in video games and in movies as the bad guys. It seems like they were right

 

[Punished Miku]

As an American I don't like this shit. We're threatening to jump in, and if we don't we will expend a LOT of international political capital by not doing so. And if we do? How many Russians do we have to kill for Pooty-Poot to give up? Probably a lot more than the American people are willing to kill. Going to war and giving up early, like we've been doing for the last 60 years, just wastes lives and resources and doesn't resolve the issues that we claim to want to solve. If we jump in and don't take this thing through to its conclusion we will end many lives, ruin many lives, and not make the world a better place for having done it. And I don't anticipate Russia will let the US take the brunt of his ire towards NATO, a coalition war in Ukraine likely means a widespread land war in Europe, which will suck a lot for everyone involved.

This is all bullshit.

You're crazy if you think we're going to start fighting the Russians over Ukraine. We have no treaty obligation to do that, and we're not losing political capital. We're not even European.

What does have political capital though? Energy, as in Russia and Saudi Arabia. Manufacturing capacity, as in China. Education, leading to corporate advantage / financial tech advantage in the future.

We should probably work on those three areas if you want international political capital. China's other main advantage is they basically run all their corporations for the express interest of the state. The US is going to have to start heavily reigning in corporate interests so they coincide with the interests of our own country. Currently it's the exact reverse and the corporations run the US for their own interest.

 

[dcll]

I'm sure the UN is typing up a very strongly worded letter as we speak

 

[PaddyOCanager]

As an American I don't like this shit. We're threatening to jump in, and if we don't we will expend a LOT of international political capital by not doing so. And if we do? How many Russians do we have to kill for Pooty-Poot to give up? Probably a lot more than the American people are willing to kill. Going to war and giving up early, like we've been doing for the last 60 years, just wastes lives and resources and doesn't resolve the issues that we claim to want to solve. If we jump in and don't take this thing through to its conclusion we will end many lives, ruin many lives, and not make the world a better place for having done it. And I don't anticipate Russia will let the US take the brunt of his ire towards NATO, a coalition war in Ukraine likely means a widespread land war in Europe, which will suck a lot for everyone involved.

This is all bullshit.

You're crazy if you think we're going to start fighting the Russians over Ukraine. We have no treaty obligation to do that, and we're not losing political capital. We're not even European.

What does have political capital though? Energy, as in Russia and Saudi Arabia. Manufacturing capacity, as in China. Education, leading to corporate advantage / financial tech advantage in the future.

We should probably work on those three areas if you want international political capital.

Biden just said we aren't sending troops, and he believes the invasion of Ukraine is imminent.

 

[Hari Seldon]

It would be nice if the biggest power in the EU would do something other than just turn off the gas temporarily lmao.

 

[Rest]

I'm sure the UN is typing up a very strongly worded letter as we speak

SCREW YOU HANS BRIX!

 

[MaestroMike]

Here’s a picture of Russia 20, 30 years ago.

Isn't that the Soviet Union and Russia is just number 11?

 

[SlimySnake]

Gotta love how history repeats itself. Appeasement of Hilter gave us WW2 and now we did the same thing by turning a blind eye to Putin.

Well done.

 

[IDKFA]

I don't like this. As a European I'm seriously worried. I just had a baby and thought worrying about climate change, IS and Corona was enough. But now it's WW3.

I highly doubt this will bring about WW3. The most likely situation is what happened in 2014. Russia will annex the Donbas region without much resistance.

For there to be WW3, Ukraine would need to aggressively defend its land, but from what I've heard from the Ukrainian president, that's not going to happen. Even if Ukraine did use force, I can't see western powers jumping in and declaring war on Russia and the CSTO.

 

[MaestroMike]

Ukraine’s neighbours bracing for millions of refugees if Russia invades

Poland, Romania and Slovakia make plans, as Poland criticised over unequal treatment of asylum seekers

www.theguardian.com

Ukrainians can come to America we need workers !

 

[Artoris]

God help us all if that's real, we are dealing with a full-blown nut job with a lot of nuclear weapons

 

[dcll]

God help us all if that's real, we are dealing with a full-blown nut job with a lot of nuclear weapons

Lol not real, it is from this

 

[BossLackey]

You're crazy if you think we're going to start fighting the Russians over Ukraine. We have no treaty obligation to do that, and we're not losing political capital. We're not even European.

What does have political capital though? Energy, as in Russia and Saudi Arabia. Manufacturing capacity, as in China. Education, leading to corporate advantage / financial tech advantage in the future.

We should probably work on those three areas if you want international political capital. China's other main advantage is they basically run all their corporations for the express interest of the state. The US is going to have to start heavily reigning in corporate interests so they coincide with the interests of our own country. Currently it's the exact reverse and the corporations run the US for their own interest.

I legit don't understand why people keep jumping to the US fighting Russia. Ukraine is not a part of NATO, and as you said there is no treaty obligation to do so.

Heavy sanctions, that's about the US's extent of involvement.

 

[miles118]

And China is waiting to see how the world reacts before doing the same to Taiwan hmmm?

Ukraine is not that import to western nations and is not part of NATO so western sanctions are enough, but Taiwan has some of the world's most powerful manufacturing companies in the world, an we have chip chortage, so I believe they will defend Taiwan.

 

[Rest]

Biden just said we aren't sending troops, and he believes the invasion of Ukraine is imminent.

What about the build up of US troops in NATO countries on Ukraine's border? Why are we sending troops if we have no plans to send them in? Remind me again what Putin was saying last week...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Lol not real, it is from this

Dont forget this beauty.

 

[miles118]

What about the build up of US troops in NATO countries on Ukraine's border? Why are we sending troops if we have no plans to send them in? Remind me again what Putin was saying last week...

Probably to defend other NATO nations once Russia is done with Ukraine, maybe they will invade eastern Europe.

 

[Punished Miku]

What about the build up of US troops in NATO countries on Ukraine's border? Why are we sending troops if we have no plans to send them in? Remind me again what Putin was saying last week...

Reinforcing the position that we will actually defend every inch of existing NATO territory.

 

[Rest]

Dont forget this beauty.

What in the actual fuck is that.

 

[Redneckerz]

Do we have anyone here from russia?

Would be glad to hear your opinion on this

Personal:

I visited the place in 2014 when i had relatives up there. Their way of living is far more laid back, something The West could learn from.

However the desynthesization of morals is quite high.. I once stood for a class (Aged 8-13) and ofcourse they had many questions for me since i was a guy from the west. So i explained in earnest how i saw the landscape (Remember, this was right after MH17 for the Dutch, and i am Dutch myself) and how i felt that both US and Russia are playing a decades long tug of war game over things that the common folk - the people - care very little about.

They all understood what i said, and agreed with it, before they mentioned: ''But its still the US fault, right?''

*sigh* no...

So what is going on isn't something i would instantly say is something the Russian people actually want. As multiple insurgencies have shown, the people actually don't like the top brass very much because all this public showing does not really improve their own livelyhood.

As for the conflict:
This whole thing of declaring independence to Luhansk and Donetsk is just a scapegoat so Russia can position some things there. It just wants Ukraine in the same vein (and got) the Crimea in 2014.

The thing is, this whole thing is completely unimportant. Its no different than the West invading other countries, only the other way around. The broader brush i am painting here is that its appalling that in 2022, we are still having these conflicts over land when the universe is so much larger than that.

Carl Sagan said it beautifully:

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

 

[zomboden]

Another ominous thing is that american FF14 streamer Zepla who was living in Kyiv moved to the west ukraine area just incase of an invasion. But she tweeted 23 hours ago that the white house/government officials had contacted her and told her she had 48 hours to leave the country last week.

 

[chromhound]

Sorry for the caps :
- RUSSIA'S UPPER HOUSE OF PARLIAMENT VOTES IN FAVOUR OF GIVING PUTIN FORMAL AUTHORITY TO DEPLOY RUSSIA'S ARMED FORCES ABROAD

-NATO'S STOLTENBERG: WE HAVE OVER 100 JETS A HIGH ALERT

 

[DragoonKain]

Wonder if Lex Fridman is going to have someone on to discuss it