systemr123
Banned
Yep I was already corrected for this but thank you for the repeat. Different group of people, same issue
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SAG-AFTRA Members Approve Video Game Strike Authorization Vote With 98.32% Yes Vote
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
What if the actors strike and it gives companies incentive to just use and advance AI Voice Replicating Software?
tkscz
Member
So wait, they convinced the "ACTORS" to go on strike? Not the over worked programmers who can only be hired as temps. Not the over worked artist who can have their art stolen and they can't do shit about it. Not the developers who have to tirelessly push these three year projects forward who could have that all snatched away. No, the actors who don't even need to put that much effort into their work and can be easily replaced by outsourced non-union workers.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Unions are cancer, definitely... All this is gonna do is make companies find other less experience people or those outside the union, some will shine and will eat market to the ones currently asking for better payments, increasing the offer.
Well, tbh that's probably a good thing for Union leaders since they can get precious money from newcomers later. Such a well rounded business.
Well, tbh that's probably a good thing for Union leaders since they can get precious money from newcomers later. Such a well rounded business.
GetInTheRobot
Banned
Sag is an actors union, why would they tell the other overworked workers to go on strike? Those positions should be unionized too if they aren't. I know it was a big deal when Raven unionized so I doubt they are atm...So wait, they convinced the "ACTORS" to go on strike? Not the over worked programmers who can only be hired as temps. Not the over worked artist who can have their art stolen and they can't do shit about it. Not the developers who have to tirelessly push these three year projects forward who could have that all snatched away. No, the actors who don't even need to put that much effort into their work and can be easily replaced by outsourced non-union workers.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I definitely don't want to be insensitive to people that work and do those things but if artificial intelligence or some computer based thing can do the same thing as far as voices then I'm not sure why should we care about this.
We are transitioning from getting rid of probably some degree of work due to the computer advancements. It's no different than automation taking over what humans used to do at factories. That's the way of the world. Now if it reflects in higher prices or something else where it doesn't make sense where they're saving money versus paying real actors then I think I have a little bit of an issue.
When it comes to these Hollywood type of things, I think most gamers would agree that there's probably a way to do it now where you're using AI. I don't need the game to be exponentially more expensive because they want to pay an actor $5 million dollars or whatever they are asking for. I've never even cared if a celebrity or anybody of note is voicing in a game. Very few times as it mattered to be enough to where it even hinges my decision of purchasing the game.
We are transitioning from getting rid of probably some degree of work due to the computer advancements. It's no different than automation taking over what humans used to do at factories. That's the way of the world. Now if it reflects in higher prices or something else where it doesn't make sense where they're saving money versus paying real actors then I think I have a little bit of an issue.
When it comes to these Hollywood type of things, I think most gamers would agree that there's probably a way to do it now where you're using AI. I don't need the game to be exponentially more expensive because they want to pay an actor $5 million dollars or whatever they are asking for. I've never even cared if a celebrity or anybody of note is voicing in a game. Very few times as it mattered to be enough to where it even hinges my decision of purchasing the game.
Haint
Member
Remake Ada is the worst VA in like 25+ years. The only thing on par was when devs did it themselves or hired friends/family. Just comically awful and an absolute embarrassment on Capcom's part.
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FingerBang
Member
Programmers are among the best paid in any industry. If they don't like working for a shitty gaming company, they can get one of the other millions of jobs available.So wait, they convinced the "ACTORS" to go on strike? Not the over worked programmers who can only be hired as temps. Not the over worked artist who can have their art stolen and they can't do shit about it. Not the developers who have to tirelessly push these three year projects forward who could have that all snatched away. No, the actors who don't even need to put that much effort into their work and can be easily replaced by outsourced non-union workers.
As a programmer the idea of joining a union is ridiculous. When they talk about unionizing in the industry it's always those people who now call themselves game developers but don't do anything technical.
majorgamer10
Banned
It's about affecting YOU
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Someone posted maybe a month ago(?) an AI voiced Resident Evil game clip. I think it was from that game Sounded great. There is no way the average person could tell it was bot generated. But the cost savings, lightning quick changes and editing that can be (instead of re-recording), or simply maybe the game makers want to change the voice to a completely different tone can all be done. Sounds like great benefits to making a product. Not every industry out there can do quality changes like that on the spot.
On the other hand, lets say a big company wants to change their cookie to have cranberries in it instead of raisins. The amount of testing, machinery work, purchasing dept work, redoing the boxe, get a new UPC code, etc.... it'd take forever.
In digital products, the industry is blessed it can forge ahead using tech to make fast quality changes. It should be commended, not banished.
I know what the counter argument is: But people will lose jobs.
Too bad. And so did the 50,000 Blockbuster Video clerks, office paper pushers, and assembly line workers making anything from cars to furniture. Its just this time the creative artsy people finally got dinged by tech like every other industry. And nobody saw it coming as all this AI Chat stuff only popped up the past year or two.
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Roni
Member
Microsoft just announced recently it would foot the bill if someone used ChatGPT for the project.
BbMajor7th
Member
Unions are literally just bunches of working people getting together to strengthen their hand in negotiations. They're going on strike because they all voted on it and the majority thought they should.
I don't know why people despise working people so wholly. Wealthy corporates pay professional lobbyists to petition the government into easing regulations or scrapping laws and people shrug and say 'money makes the world go around'; workers get together to negotiate pay and conditions and people wish for them to fail and suffer and go without.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Because unions make the company come to a stop. There's more to a company then union workers. There's non-union workers caught in the cross fire, customers, business supplliers etc... who all rely on companies to run. If some people have a squabble with management, then do it on their own closed door meeting.
The worst case I can think of unions hurting workers is when pro player unions go on strike. Never mind fans who cant watch the game but what happens to all the stadium staff being paid low wages who cant work until the season starts? You got a league with maybe 600 players trying to shut down a league while being paid millions despite 1000s of everyday staff whose work comes to a halt because a different group of employees dont want to show up for work.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Personally AI evolution seems like a good thing that should be used alongside human element or if it costs jobs AI could be used to do the mundane tasks and give humans better jobs that inherently have more value. And I think humans will still be required albeit at a lesser degree to supervise the AI in case there is a mistake or extraordinary circumstances that require intervention such as holiday seasons in a retail/grocery environment.
In the case of AI voice replication I can see it going down as signing a contract to use your voice or as software to enhance a person's voice if they could otherwise not have the range they normally would have in not only voice acting but singing as well.
Soundbyte software and AI with the Vocaloid Software was only the beginning.
Overall though whether people like it or not AI will continue to evolve and is our future moving forward. Though I think Corporate Greed will try to exploit the tech and try to make the most money off of it.
However I think there is a degree of danger in AI software because when it comes to Voice Replication you could sound like anyone and not only impersonate others but possibly create forgeries of evidence to use in Court and if the voice is perfect there is no way of discerning the real from the unreal.
For people losing jobs I feel if AI can be perfected that you can eliminate Data Entry jobs people can opt to pursue more engaging and more important work.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Good post. I agree.
But there is one big counter argument you will get in any situation where tech can improve things.
Some people will be left in the dust because they can’t adapt. So for data entry clerks who lose their job because that’s all they can do, what does the company or society do to bail out their career or lost wages?
BbMajor7th
Member
Labour is a business utility - something businesses need to run, like electricity or water. The cost of utilities rises with inflation. Businesses will be paying more for electricity this year than they did last year; the cost of labour goes up in the same way. If a company had refused to pay for increased energy costs and the electricity company had cut off of supply, I doubt you'd be angry at the energy supplier - I doubt you'd be arguing there's more to a company than the electricity bills. I imagine most people would be telling the management to pay their bills and get it sorted.
Running a business is costly, if you don't pay your contracted suppliers or try to amend the contracts to their disadvantage they have to right to withdraw what they're supplying. Nobody seems to have a problem with this - fuck around and find out, as the saying goes - except when the supply in question is labour. It is management's job to ensure that the company has everything it needs to function; you have to negotiate with suppliers to do this and negotiation only makes sense if both parties have an even hand. What workforces are offering is their skills and labour, if the company genuinely needs these, but isn't willing to pay for them, workforces have to be willing to cut them off.
It's the management's job to make sure that doesn't happen - to sort their energy bills before the power gets cut, to see that rental costs are met before the bailiffs are sent in and, yes, to make sure staff are sufficiently remunerated before they all walk out.
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xrnzaaas
Member
They're not gonna win anything even though I agree using AI for voicework should be regulated. They're just going to be replaced, there's no comparison to the leverage the people from the movie industry had over the studios.
In a way I even think this may lead to something good, because we may start hearing new voices instead of Troy Baker or Laura Bailey for the 100th time.
In a way I even think this may lead to something good, because we may start hearing new voices instead of Troy Baker or Laura Bailey for the 100th time.
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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I don't think there is an easy answer since I think as tech increases jobs will be eliminated and those that did those old jobs will have to adapt or else. The jobs that aren't going to be eliminated are going to be either physical jobs or jobs that are dangerous that no one wants to do.
The more physical jobs will have a longer presence because robots still have a long way to go before they can adequately perform the tasks humans do.
And I think future generations given the state of inflation is just going to give people more incentive to not work which will in turn give incentive for companies to develop AI/Robotics.
But any meaningful change won't happen for 10-30 years.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
It’s wild to me how pro giant corporations people here are. Most voice actors and writers don’t make much money. This is an effort to help folks making not much more then Target employees.
Corporations are trying their damnest not to pay even that bare minimum. And for VAs there are real health consequences without some of the protections on how voice sessions are conducted.
VAs and writers bring a lot to gaming and it’s ridiculous to se the sorts of attitudes on display here.
As to “woke “ writing issues, the Corpos are mandating that shit, not writers making middle-class wages (if that). Take Starfield, do you think Bethesda writing room wanted to out out that drivel? No, thank MS and Zenimax for their shit.
Corporations are trying their damnest not to pay even that bare minimum. And for VAs there are real health consequences without some of the protections on how voice sessions are conducted.
VAs and writers bring a lot to gaming and it’s ridiculous to se the sorts of attitudes on display here.
As to “woke “ writing issues, the Corpos are mandating that shit, not writers making middle-class wages (if that). Take Starfield, do you think Bethesda writing room wanted to out out that drivel? No, thank MS and Zenimax for their shit.
FunkMiller
Member
It's just political bullshit, and a lack of knowledge about how industry works. Don't pay it too much mind.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
It’s disappointing though and kind of illustrates why labor relations are like shit in this country. People equating Pro Labor with “woke “ is absolutely wild.
Shadowstar39
Member
Sorry i care why? These people are just going to cause price increases, delays and more inflation. Oh booo hoo for the people making 75k- 150k+ My pion 43k a year is so distraught for your struggles, not.... lol...
What pretensious bs. We are in a recession with hyperinflation and these people pull this stunt.
What pretensious bs. We are in a recession with hyperinflation and these people pull this stunt.
Eotheod
Member
Rant incoming and I'll probably get flagged/deleted for it I'm sorry but I just gotta get it off my chest:
How many times do I have to keep repeating this: ESG is not what you think it is. It is a government structure system to be used in junction with many other inner-departments to ensure cohesion of a democratic society. Economic Social Governance is just governing with an economical mindset that relays social understandings to your projects/governing.
I literally work in local government here in Australia, ESG is not new it has just been rebranded like every government element. Social governance has been a thing since the invention of societal structures, because a government wants to play nice with society or else the people turn on you, hence playing to what is socially acceptable. It is seriously not some hidden agenda or "woke" mentality that is pushing down the "man" that wants to just do what they want when they want.
I can not stress this enough, ESG is a buzzword that for whatever reason is catchy enough that corporate shills scream it high because they can charge big $$ to give the seal of approval to agencies. It has been flamed as some coming of Jesus woke ritualism that will ruin the world according to people who literally spout nonsense to get money/clicks, yet it is literally just an economical model for governing effectively. The true effectiveness is debatable that's for sure.
Sorry, I just hate repeating myself when it comes to this stupid shit. Also side note, if it wasn't popular people wouldn't buy it and consume the media that has all this "woke" mentality in it. People can say "oh but we are forced to otherwise we look like bad people," but truthfully the world is not any worse when it comes to discourse. It is just those who don't like something then get offended that others are getting offended so they act more offended by being aggressive to that offensiveness.
The American union system is fucking wild, that's for sure. I have no idea how you guys got it so wrong, and continue to get it so wrong when you have perfect examples elsewhere in the Western world. Certainly in Australia we have had some issues, but unions are incredibly important here and have lead to significant improvements to the worker/employer relationship. Heck, my fiance is a primary school teacher and has unions to thank for getting a much needed pay rise that would not have happened if there was not the collective bargaining power that unions have.
There is very clearly a need for unions, in that the employer/employee relationship is not equal in any particular way and without togetherness the greed of an employer will always outweigh the beneficial needs of an employee.
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Shadowstar39
Member
Because some of these people make 2-5x what some of us make and their union demands could cause the price of good and services to skyrocket. We are already in a recession and trying to recover from 2 years of hyper-inflation that has not stopped (counter to what the mainstream consensus is). People are struggling to pay rent, buy a house, get a car , hell a used car. The prices for these necessities (in the states at least) are out of control. Add on to this what happens if these people get their demands? The price of games will go up as the higher ups will not dip into profits but will cut corners in games other places, or raise the cost to us. More microtransactions, smaller dlc for more money, less single player and more gaas always online bs.
We see this with the recent Ford strike. Demands: 40% pay raise, pensions, and getting paid 40 hours of pay for only 32 hours of work..... Insanity. You get paid what you work, why they would expect that. Plus many are already making $30-40/hour (i make $21/hr ) cry me a river, most people don't get 40% raises, we get 2-4% yearly based on performance and no pensions. A 40% raise would mean around $50/hour. Sorry I don't feel sorry for them. They were offered 20% and refused it.
In the Ford example, we , the society are already hurting. The cost of cars has skyrocketed , which also affected used cars. A new truck cost $60-75k (something a few years prior would be 15-20k, same f150 my pops bought for 4k new in 1980). The used car market is bad too same truck will still be in the 40-50k range. For the average person it is un-obtainable, unless you are wealthy. What do you think happens when these strikes go through, the company will raise the price on the cars, or cut corners. They wont take it away from profits or ceo salary (while that would be nice, it won't happen and sometimes it wouldn't be enough to cover that).
So crazy demands, cause customers to have to fit the bill. We are all struggling, as inflation and high energy/food prices have made everything super expensive. Wages don't keep up with inflation to the point it feels like a pay cut each month. Game prices already increased to $70 when we can't afford it. Services get price hikes, consoles get price hikes when they used to historically decrease in price. When will it end. We won't get relief and striking in the middle of all this bs is just going to sting more. More micro transions, more smaller 2bit dlc, more monitary schemes, less single player games, and more gaas for higher prices, no thank you.
If these actors were making $10/hour and had bad working conditions, then I would be on board, but that isn't the case. Here is how much they make according to a google search:
- The current SAG-AFTRA rates for video game actors are $478.50 for one voice/one hour, with $319.00 for each additional voice, $956.75 for up to three voices/four-hour day, and $1,914.25 for 6-10 voices/6-hour day. The bonus system starts at $75 for one session and caps at $2,100 for 10
FingerBang
Member
You're not making a good point. You're starting by saying ESG is not what I (and other) think it is, then proceed to write world salad.
We're obviously talking about the ESG score and how diversity is one of the parameters that affect it. And if you're a public company looking for investors, of course you'll care about it.
I can understand you being bothered by it being misused and being more than a "woke" score, but it's not something completely different, nor have I said anywhere it's a bad thing in general.
I also called a semi-conspiracy and you're taking it way too seriously. The whole issue is complex, but you can't deny there's a push at a corporate level to have stupid crap like DEI departments.
kvltus lvlzvs
Member
Just in time for ai voice acting like we were in the mods, lmao
fart town usa
Member
Good thing I'm on a VR kick and most studios consist of a handful of buddies sharing an apartment together living the dream. 
BbMajor7th
Member
I don't know much about the Ford situation, but I honestly doubt they're expecting anyone to feel sorry for them. They're doing exactly what any business (and really any individual) does: negotiating for their biggest share.
I think this is why Western economies are so broken: businesses go capitalist, say 'fuck everyone else' and push to get as much as they can, but ordinary working people go socialist, talk about what's fair and best for everyone, knuckle down, weather hardship and get angry with anyone going the other way for being selfish. In a free market, you're supposed to push hard to get as much as you can for yourself and if everyone does the same, it drives the system. It used to be like that, but now, we expect businesses to nickel-and-dime us back to the dark ages, pinch pennies when it comes to pay rises, and constantly complain that they're teetering on the brink of collapse. Meanwhile, we're supposed to suck it up, think about each other, and not ask for anything more than the bare minimum.
CEOs tell their staff they want 40% increase in operating income in the next fiscal, following an underwhelming 25% last fiscal and we say it's a 'bold, ambitious target'; rank and file workers say they want a 40% when they've been netting 3% for years at a time and we say it's 'insane and unrealistic'. Why don't working people get to set ambitious targets? All the other vendors a company works alongside are aiming to grow their margins year-on-year, but regular workers should lower their expectations?
Nah, fuck that. We've all been getting poorer and poorer for way too long, while people at the top have gotten richer and richer. No one's telling business to reign it, no one's telling market speculators to tighten their belts, no one's telling landlords to take it easy on the rent, no, it's everybody else, sitting at the bottom, with fuck all that need to make do with even less. We've been doing it their way since they crashed the markets in 2008 and we're all far worse off fifteen years later, while they're all much better off. All in it together, they said. Pull the other fucking one.
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FunkMiller
Member
FTFY.
The idea that a vast majority of actors are all rich and swanning about looking down on the little people is possibly the dumbest take I've seen in a long time.
The union does not exist to help the best paid. They have agents for that. The union exists to establish what the minimum pay is. And that - just like any industry - ain't all that much. Especially when you take into account how sparse work can be, and that actors can go weeks and months without work. Yes, the hourly rate does look good, but they don't work 40 hours a week, week in, week out! Far, far from it.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
Yep, and instead getting angry at the corpos, people get angry at fellow laborers. It’s insane.
The reason Ford trucks cost that much are not because Joe and Jane Union are demanding stupid high wages. It’s due to COVID, materials pricing, energy pricing, corporate greed (look at exec compensation packages), profit taking and a lot of shit being pushed into those $70K trucks that weren’t there 30-40 years before or hell even 20 years before.
But no it’s the evil Unions who are responsible.
Gordon Fearman
Member
This might be a crazy take, but I feel like we shouldn't put much stock in the opinions of people who don't realise the Screen Actors Guild doesn't do writing.
Roxkis_ii
Banned
People talking shit about unions is absolutely crazy to me. Are most people here working in management?
For most non union jobs, the fastest way to get a raise is to find another job and that fucking sucks. People should be able to negotiate cost of living increases.
Management's duty is to manage on behalf of corporate, and corporate's duty is to the share holders. Who is looking out for the employee??
Also if ai was good enough to replace the people who voted to strike, they would have already done so. Ask the movie studios who just signed an agreement with their union.
For most non union jobs, the fastest way to get a raise is to find another job and that fucking sucks. People should be able to negotiate cost of living increases.
Management's duty is to manage on behalf of corporate, and corporate's duty is to the share holders. Who is looking out for the employee??
Also if ai was good enough to replace the people who voted to strike, they would have already done so. Ask the movie studios who just signed an agreement with their union.
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Salty Popsicle
Banned
This post reeks of jealousy and malice towards people who have the power to collectively determine the value of their labor. You list all the reasons why a worker would demand higher wages from their employer such as out of control rent and price of necessities skyrocketing, yet you essentially argue that since you have to suffer by earning a meager wage, no one else should have the leverage to change their outlook in terms of compensation.
This is how these mega-corporations win, they pit normal working people against each other and convince the less educated/ignorant that if their neighbor starts earning more, everyone else will suffer as a result. Meanwhile, corporate profits break new record year after year and major shareholders make their money at your expense.
FunkMiller
Member
What makes it even worse is that he doesn't understand how SAG rates work, or how many hours they work for that rate.
It would be nice if people at least tried to understand how an industry works before commenting. Maybe that would kill off the politics of envy thing, if they knew the reality.
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hyperbertha
Member
Yea no you can't take the work generated by actors and then use it to replace them. It's an entirely different ballgame. And in before the ai learns just like humans nonsense. No it doesn't. It's not even actual ai just statistical distribution algorithms...
hyperbertha
Member
In their world, it's the actors and workers driving up costs, not the corps and governments.
Also in their world, the ai will help remove all the bad bad middle class workers and help them pay less for Vidya games and buy houses and cars.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
I mean... wages are the largest cost of this business in particular. If everyone wants raises on top of all the other cost increases that have occurred, prices are going to go up. Wage inflation is a thing.
Let's take it to the obvious conclusion, since there's more being applied here than just voice actors. Are you
FunkMiller
Roxkis_ii
Salty Popsicle
willing and happy to pay more for your vidya as a result? And do you think many are with you if so?
hyperbertha
Member
Paying more for Vidya is far better than allowing corps to replace everyone with ai and essentially eliminate middle-class.I mean... wages are the largest cost of this business in particular. If everyone wants raises on top of all the other cost increases that have occurred, prices are going to go up. Wage inflation is a thing.
Let's take it to the obvious conclusion, since there's more being applied here than just voice actors. Are you
But I disagree the workers are the main driving factor behind cost, it's the corporate model.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Hmmm, pay $80 - $100 per game (we are arriving at this price-point anyway, whether wages go up or not) or watch thousands of people (millions once we start talking about AI implementation across all service industries) lose their livelihood because corporations have found the holy grail of exploitable production. Hard decision.I mean... wages are the largest cost of this business in particular. If everyone wants raises on top of all the other cost increases that have occurred, prices are going to go up. Wage inflation is a thing.
Let's take it to the obvious conclusion, since there's more being applied here than just voice actors. Are you
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Roxkis_ii
Banned
Let's take it to the obvious conclusion, since there's more being applied here than just voice actors. Are you
Game prices have already gone up my 10 dollars this gen and it only ceo's who got a raise. Let's not pretend these companies are poor.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's an eerily successful level of control that makes people react negatively to something that works in their best interest. Create a boogeyman term that doesn't mean anything, then label anything you don't like with that term in order to distract the masses.
cartman414
Member
There are some people out there who love leather boot taste.
If only our CEOs/execs were a little more like Japan's, where they take salary cuts when overall profits are down.
If only our CEOs/execs were a little more like Japan's, where they take salary cuts when overall profits are down.
SlimeGooGoo
Banned
.
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