Sakurai essay in EDGE on appealing to all types of gamers with the new Smash Bros.
- Thread starter Fiktion
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The annoying thing is that he thinks to remove all the annoyance with long animation endlag, he has to add in l-cancelling... Just reduce it automatically dammit!
SatoAilDarko
Member
I honestly did feel Melee was a bit too fast for casual players like me. It doesn't have to be as slow as Brawl though.
Hopefully they can strike a balance.
Hopefully they can strike a balance.
MisterHero
Super Member
My most wanted request. Recycling models, voices, and animations from Melee only made the scrutiny worse.
Thank you Mr. Sakurai.
the androgyne
Member
You'd think, with all of the options this game is bound to have, they could have just put a damn speed setting in there and forgotten all about it!
You know that they have recycled some animations and entire character voice samples from Brawl, right?
Maybe not some models, though its hard to tell in some cases.
Stallion Dan
Member
Casuals and kids will play the new game online, melee they did not. Melee was fine as they only played family and friends. Now those players are facing the world, most of 'em will get murdered unless the game caters to them somewhat.
Posts like these make me laugh, no offense.
First of all, they wouldn't, as they'd just pick the "for anyone mode".
If they pick "For Glory" mode instead, I have bad news for you: they'd be murdered even if it was Brawl.
Prevolition
Member
I've only heard the opposite, that it's much quicker and less sluggish than Brawl.
MisterHero
Super Member
I'm gonna take Sakurai's word on it. Though some mainstays like Marth seem to have minimal changes. I'm still not keen on Mario having FLUDD either.
Hopefully Fox and Captain Falcon can get new games this gen so we get new voice acting and such. (though Starfox 64 got brand new VA with the original cast)
Stallion Dan
Member
Because every player is one of two skills....casual noob or expert pro.
No inbetween at all.
Also no trolls who will pick 'for anyone' when they a more than capable player. Never seen that in a fighting game online ever.
Nice fantasy land you live in.
Those people will get murdered in 64, they'll get murdered in Melee, they'll get murdered in Brawl and they'll get murdered in Smash 4, regardless of Sakurai's efforts to reduce the impact of a player's technical skill.
Most thought it was ok but the lack of any form of animation cancelling on aerials made the game feel really stiff/slow and was too limiting on the combo game.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I remember someone mentioning on either GAF or a stream that a Melee player presses a bout 10 bttons per second
Yeah fuck that
I thought Melee was OK as a kid but after Brawl came out I couldn't go back to it. The new airdodge was improved in every way, and the characters felt a lot better (in Melee they always seemed too heavy and too fast). It seemed like they made it a little slower than it needed to be though, so I'm glad that Sakurai wants to strike a balance between the two games.
You know, I've never thought about this before, but you're totally right.
The controls weren't the problem, and in fact he didn't change anything control wise going from Melee to Brawl.
Bullshit. The game is no more than 20% at most faster than Brawl. It's such an insignificant increase that I'm wondering why he bothered at all.
This is really not what I wanted to hear. Melee sold amazingly on the Gamecube despite its so called "complexity". In fact, wasn't it the best selling Gamecube game?
The Invitational didn't make the game look good at all, it was like watching a slightly faster Brawl.
The Invitational didn't make the game look good at all, it was like watching a slightly faster Brawl.
Visualante2
Member
Not that I am taking any stand, because Future sacked their online staff. But we've had several threads, transcribing more or less entire pages of this month's magazine at this point.
We allow this but forbid scans. It's kinda weird because Edge are trying to grow their digital subscriptions...
We allow this but forbid scans. It's kinda weird because Edge are trying to grow their digital subscriptions...
Then, once i can play the game, my character is not even going to get momentum from jumping while running...Smash already doesn't have complicated controls and speed proved not to be a problem for anyone with Melee. Thanks for reminding us you still don't get it, Sakurai, and that you still have warped perceptions whereby stuff that makes for good tournament fodder is immediately not great for casuals.Sakurai said:
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
if you talk to most casual players, they'll say 3 never walked the line. It was incredibly hardcore.
linko9
Member
What I find funny about his philosophy here is that I bet more casual players didn't even realize there was a difference between the overall feel of Melee and Brawl. I'll freely admit to being pretty bad at the games (though I've played the hell out of them), and I don't really have much of a preference between the two; the more skilled you are, the more that matters to you, but to unskilled players the difference is basically negligible. I think he's overanalyzing things if he things the slower pace of brawl attracted less skilled players, or that a melee-speed game would turn anyone away who would have otherwise bought the game.
Glass Rebel
Member
I somewhat agree with the general sentiment but I already felt he struck a great balance with Melee. Brawl was way to slow and I fear that Smash 4 might need more than a few patches after the release.
Did ANYONE complain about how SSB64 played? I feel that one gets ignored unfairly. If Sakurai wanted something to be between Melee and Brawl, guess what? He already had something like that. Not this slightly modified Brawl garbage that he decided on.
There is no professional player who has tried the game that thinks it's a "slightly modified" Brawl.
Vampirolol
Member
We are also talking about people who tried the game, they didn't play it for hours and hours and it wasn't even the final build. Melee took years to become what it is.
you know what sakurai... 2 days ago, i played a lot of smash 64 with 3 friends and... smash 64, released in 1999, is still both more fun and more of a smash bros game (there was an actual edge game, and it was difficult to come back to the stage!!) than brawl 
OH!! and, in smash 64, throws are awesome (compared to brawl, at least).
Or, maybe, is was just nostalgia. You can never be sure ;p
OH!! and, in smash 64, throws are awesome (compared to brawl, at least).Or, maybe, is was just nostalgia. You can never be sure ;p
That's only because Melee was the first super technical smash that had a lot of things to learn.
We know enough about Smash as a series know to base certain things off the way the base mechanics work, I hear people say "We just don't know how it works yet" but that just isn't true based on what we've seen so far, and there's no reason to believe Sakurai will make changes geared towards making the game more competitive based on his consistent attitude that always manages to completely miss the point.
We're not going to find some AT years into the game that lets you reduce your endlag, there's not going to be something we find that decreases the effectiveness of defense or removes the other players ability to spam air dodges.
Professor Beef
Banned
Plenty of big Smash players moved onto Marvel and Street Fighter.
Really, now? What do they think it is then?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
If they recreated all characters from scratch how does he explain Ganondorf?
It really is though, Smash 4 is closer to Brawl than any other iteration of smash. The only thing that can make it stand out from the others is the way custom moves could potentially affect how the game develops, everything else is straight up Brawl.
Sure, it has a few things from 64, and the speed is increased ever so slightly.
But everything else, the spammable air dodge, overpowered defensive options, high endlag (with a lack of animation cancelling), nerfed offstage game and improved recoveries, increased amount of items that break the flow of gameplay just to add chaos or 1-hit KOs, floatiness, lack of momentum conservation...
It all just screams "Brawl - But we only fixed the stupid shit that shouldn't have been there in the first place like tripping instead of the actual problems with the game".
I press like 3 buttons a second at most, even I get annoyed at Brawl when it doesn't let me do follow-ups.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I don't know, I think Sakurai wants to cater to players who do want to get involved but are completely intimidated by all the crap in Melee that's there
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
As far as I am concerned Smash 4 is a modified Brawl. Only for the fact that development initiated on using Brawl as a base and was worked up on from there. Other then that it is completely different.
Honestly I don't full trust Larry's opinion on this.
He was doing a lot of offensive shit as Bowser in the grand finals that straight up would not have worked if he was playing against another pro player, all of the offensive options he used were so damn punishable but the other guy wasn't making use of the superior defensive options he had at all.
Smash 64 did not have good defense, it was the worst in the series and using your shield was practically a death sentence, meanwhile Smash 4 has the best defense in the series, saying it's a mix of the two is wrong just because it has increased throw knockback and a few other things.
64 was also defined by it's massive hitstun and complete animation cancelling that allowed for a combo game where 0-deaths were incredibly common.
Smash 4 isn't a mix of anything, it's Brawl but with a few features from the other games and a few new ones.
Hyperactivity
Banned
And how much did you play the game compared to him?
None, but I've watched and analysed more than enough footage and impressions to see that the things he was doing wouldn't have worked if the other player was actually good.
The invitational finals were far more indicative of what the game is going to turn out like when people get their hands on it.
ScreenSplitter
Member
No no shh let's stop for a moment and actually read that back to ourselves.
And why should anyone trust your opinion on this?
ScreenSplitter
Member
He's watched footage man. Stop being so disrespectful.
Yeah, you don't have to be a pro to feel that Brawl was stale and boring. Also, for a game that was supposed to be simpler its top character were so broken. Casual players can easily get destroyed by Meta knight.