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[sir_kevith]

huh

huh what? I cant read your mind or use your fuckin brain for you. You said this in response to the bicyclists proving a point:

A group of buddies could hop on the freeway and never top the speed limit to "prove a point", and cause quite the traffic headache doing so. That doesn't mean speed limits should be relegated to mere suggestions.

Its okay for cars to reasonably speed then. Thats still breaking the law the same as rolling through a stop sign when no cars are around on a bike.

You gotta look at an issue from both sides of you want to sound reasonable. I bike and own a car and have a lot of experience doing both. I think officially treating stop signs as yield signs for bikes is a great idea.

 

[titiklabingapat]

I swear every other sentence from cyclists in these threads start with "but, but cars..."

Meanwhile I saw yet another (only 4 today) cyclists blow through a stop light today as I was waiting at a bus stop. The dude blew right by the stopped car in the other lane. Granted, there were no other cars as cross traffic. The reason the light was red was because of the pedestrian crossing the street. The pedestrian was in front of the car which obscured the cyclist's vision and luckily the bike missed the girl by a couple of feet.

You should not be above the law. Just like drivers in cars pay too little attention to things other than cars, so do bikers. That is why the laws are in place.

That's because motor vehicles, when things go wrong, will inevitably result in more serious injuries and more fatalities compared to a bicycle. People who operate such things should be held at a higher standard and responsibilities.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I swear every other sentence from cyclists in these threads start with "but, but cars..."

Meanwhile I saw yet another (only 4 today) cyclists blow through a stop light today as I was waiting at a bus stop. The dude blew right by the stopped car in the other lane. Granted, there were no other cars as cross traffic. The reason the light was red was because of the pedestrian crossing the street. The pedestrian was in front of the car which obscured the cyclist's vision and luckily the bike missed the girl by a couple of feet.

You should not be above the law. Just like drivers in cars pay too little attention to things other than cars, so do bikers. That is why the laws are in place.

This infraction is so minor compared to the avoidable carnage happening in all cities. It's illegal, but literally everyone is doing something illegal on the road everyday they're on it. Why only get this mad at bike riders?

 

[Lesath]

At this point I'm not understanding why you doubt others' anecdotal experiences but expect us to accept yours.

Every vehicle type rolls through stop signs.

What an incredible non-statement. You're right that anecdotal evidence means nothing, though: I would say given the times I've had to yield to a bicyclist blowing past a stop sign after I made my legal stop is far more annoying than the zero times I've seen a car purposefully blow a stop sign has colored my view. Moreover, I live near a Stop intersection at the bottom of a hill, and I think it's incredibly dangerous for a someone (as I've often seen bicyclists do) to not take a moment to check the cross traffic before going through, because at times cars misjudge the required braking distance.

At this point, though, I'm not going to change my mind, and you're not going to change yours, so let's drop it.

 

[SecretMoblin]

Its okay for cars to reasonably speed then. Thats still breaking the law the same as rolling through a stop sign when no cars are around on a bike.

You gotta look at an issue from both sides of you want to sound reasonable. I bike and own a car and have a lot of experience doing both. I think officially treating stop signs as yield signs for bikes is a great idea.

No.

A mass group of cyclists gathering in a small area and stopping at every stop sign to prove a point about how silly stop signs are means nothing about the importance of stop signs. A group of cars deliberately holding up traffic to make a point about how silly speed limits are means nothing about how important speed limits are.

I bike every day in a city that is supposedly great for cyclists, and I'm often terrified for my life because of crazy drivers. But there are plenty of fellow bikers on the road who zip through city streets, off and onto sidewalks when "nobody is there so it doesn't matter", and treat the road as their playground. This enables those people.

 

[soco]

i do this on a bike occasionally, but only in a few locations, when there's nothing around. I'm curious about incidents involving bikes in the places where it's legal.

I dunno about SF, but I know around here there's more than a few intersections where there's low visibility to the other sides. I've seen many bicyclists that don't even slow down.

 

[devilhawk]

This infraction is so minor compared to the avoidable carnage happening in all cities. It's illegal, but literally everyone is doing something illegal on the road everyday they're on it. Why only get this mad at bike riders?

I've never been hit by a car crossing a crosswalk or walking on a sidewalk.

 

[Dazza]

Nah. It's safer when everyone crossing the intersection acts the same way. I get really tired of cyclists that just roll through 4 way stops.

Our next door neighbor Iowa has 4 way no-stops. Needless to say I avoid those intersections.

Forgive me since I don't live in the US. But how does a four way stop intersection work? Would it be more practical to have some passages a right of way or at least be a roundabout.

So cyclists want to legal right to treat stop signs as giveaway signs instead? I'm ok with this as long as they still slow down for it. The speed that some cyclists go and the way they ride are just hazardous. Another thing I would considering allow is right hand free turns (in others words any turns that you don't cross the otherside of the road) for cyclists

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I've never been hit by a car crossing a crosswalk or walking on a sidewalk.

I have twice. What now?

 

[way more]

I love when GAF'ers decide that The Law is the Law is a argument closer. The other 90% of the time saying "it's the law" makes you a bigot. But this is all the more rich because it's about cyclists in San Francisco. Suddenly everybody's ass tightens up because people on who ride bikes want a change in traffic law. This isn't gay marriage people! It's a municipal law concerning vehicle code.

 

[Lesath]

Forgive me since I don't live in the US. But how does a four way stop intersection work? Would it be more practical to have some passages a right of way or at least be a roundabout.

So cyclists want to legal right to treat stop signs as giveaway signs instead? I'm ok with this as long as they still slow down for it. The speed that some cyclists go and the way they ride are just hazardous. Another thing I would considering allow is right hand free turns (in others words any turns that you don't cross the otherside of the road) for cyclists

Pedestrians have right-of-way. Then, whichever vehicle reached the intersection first. If you see a bicyclist, assume that he will not stop because he probably won't.

 

[devilhawk]

I have twice. What now?

Thankfully it wasn't serious and thankfully they will still have laws in place.

Meanwhile, I have only been hit by bikes. Why would I be in favor of letting them become more dangerous? This rule change will, without debate, make bikes more dangerous for those walking.

 

[adamsappel]

I stop fully at stop signs. I drive defensively and with the flow of traffic. Well maybe 5-10 over on open expressways. Probably why I've done a good job of never in my life being pulled over or ticketed. Even as a black man in FL!

But if they are cool with people yielding illegally through stop signs, why not replace stop signs with yield signs? That way nobody is confused of what's going on.

So you admit you don't obey speed laws, but yet you're criticizing bicyclists for breaking other laws.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Thankfully it wasn't serious and thankfully they will still have laws in place.

Meanwhile, I have only been hit by bikes. Why would I be in favor of letting them become more dangerous? This rule change will, without debate, make bikes more dangerous for those walking.

I mean, we raised speed limits everywhere. We don't really care about safety in general.

I don't want to believe that this is a "fuck you, got mine" situation to some people.

 

[stufte]

I was living and working in San Francisco during one of the first "Critical Mass" "protests". Fuck this shit.

 

[sir_kevith]

No.

A mass group of cyclists gathering in a small area and stopping at every stop sign to prove a point about how silly stop signs are means nothing about the importance of stop signs. A group of cars deliberately holding up traffic to make a point about how silly speed limits are means nothing about how important speed limits are.

I bike every day in a city that is supposedly great for cyclists, and I'm often terrified for my life because of crazy drivers. But there are plenty of fellow bikers on the road who zip through city streets, off and onto sidewalks when "nobody is there so it doesn't matter", and treat the road as their playground. This enables those people.

The importance of stop signs isnt being contested and it enables nobody. Bikes have to stop for cars coming and the same right of way rules apply. All this does is stop unnecessary ticket writing and put an end to a ridiculous claim that cars and bikes should behave the same when the experience and physics are vastly different.

 

[whitehawk]

I agree with this. I don't think many cyclists follow stop signs anyway. Stop lights should always mean stop, but stop signs should mean something different for cyclists.

 

[godhandiscen]

Fuck no. SF cyclists are already madmen with no regard for their personal safety. They don't need to be encouraged further.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Don't they basically do that anyway?

 

[XAL]

Don't they basically do that anyway?

Yup.

Honestly shit like this pisses me off. Cyclists here in SF constantly blow through stop signs and bike through crosswalks and go onto sidewalks to bike through crosswalks to circumvent cars waiting to turn right.

Most of them are either assholes that think riding a bike gives them a license to disregard the rules of the road or they're just completely uneducated about how traffic works and what's legal.

All this will do is to embolden cyclists here to continue to flagrantly run stop signs when tons of pedestrians and cars are around.

I've spoken to cyclists here so fucking fanatical they think that everyone should ride bikes instead of cars...even fucking ambulances. A r e y o u f u c k i n g k i d d i n g m e.

"Why don't we have small sedan sized fire trucks, we don't need big ones" A r e y o u f u c k i n g k i d d i n g m e.

"Why don't they just only keep cars to one lane, or make streets one way and take the extra lanes and make them into bike lanes and bigger sidewalks" A r e y o u f u c k i n g k i d d i n g m e.

etc

Not to mention that there are a handful of really shittily thought out bike lanes and bike turn lanes that NO ONE EVER USES and only cause traffic congestion.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Yup.

Honestly shit like this pisses me off. Cyclists here in SF constantly blow through stop signs and bike through crosswalks and go onto sidewalks to bike through crosswalks to circumvent cars waiting to turn right.

Most of them are either assholes that think riding a bike gives them a license to disregard the rules of the road or they're just completely uneducated about how traffic works and what's legal.

All this will do is to embolden cyclists here to continue to flagrantly run stop signs when tons of pedestrians and cars are around.

It's weird how some of you post like drivers do everything right. What separates bike riders enough to get the rants?

It feels like when there's talk about gun control because of safety and some guy is like "YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT KITCHEN KNIVES."

 

[XAL]

It's weird how some of you post like drivers do everything right. What separates bike riders enough to get the rants?

It feels like when there's talk about gun control because of safety and some guy is like "YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT KITCHEN KNIVES."

1. I said nothing about drivers I can make a post of all the shit I see if you want me too, the list is exhaustive. My comments are about cyclists not being perfect and trustworthy because at the end of the day they're people, and drivers are people - they are capable of being equally stupid. Any inference that drivers are guiltless was created by YOU in your head. So don't try and paint me like some kind of dumbass-tier "they're gunna take muh guns ya might as well take the knives too" idiot.

2. I bike AND drive. How do you think I run into these hyper-dumbfuck cyclists long enough to have a conversation?

3. My work has me on the streets all over the city all day so I see more drivers and bikes interacting than probably 95% of the people in this city.

You can introduce all of the engineering controls that you want, but if there is a lack of education on BOTH SIDES NONE OF IT WILL MATTER.

I can't tell you how many amateur and longtime cyclists I've seen eat pavement trying to bike over rail lines. This is the most common sense thing EVER, and I see it all the damn time by people of varying skill levels. I've seen cyclists run down pedestrians because they're biking through the crosswalk, hopping onto and off of sidewalks, bombing down hills and running through intersections, USING THEIR FUCKING PHONE WHILE BIKING THROUGH AN INTERSECTION.

What needs to happen on the bike end of things:

1. Cyclists need a license to bike. They need to be educated on the rules of the road, they need to be educated in common sense when dealing with other vehicles on the road. They need to know the law, they need to know their rights. And someone needs to tell them that if they're tired and biking on an incline and wobbling all over the fucking place and swerving into traffic IT'S OK TO GET OFF YOUR BIKE AND WALK IT.

2. Bikes need functioning lights. ALL OF THEM.

3. Cyclists need to wear a helmet. I don't care if it fucks up your hair or makes you sweaty and itchy, they made that fucking thing for a reason.

As for the city: make dedicated separated raised bike lanes where they make sense. Don't just shit out a bike lane to say you have x amount of bike lanes.

 

[Madness]

A lot of bicyclists have little sense at times. So many just speed through stop signs and 4 way stops because they think their speed/momentum is more important than safety

So many rarely wear helmets, they don't obey hardly any street signs or lights, and many just hop onto sidewalks and go through pedestrian walkways and then go back into the road. Others stay right in the middle of the street as opposed to more to the side so cars can pass the super slow ones.

One time, I saw a car signal for a turn, and there was a bicyclist behind him who should have been watching and seeing the car was turning, he couldn't stop in time and hit the side and flew over the top and when he got up, he then tried to blame the driver in front Er.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Others stay right in the middle of the street as opposed to more to the side so cars can pass the super slow ones.

Completely legal, so....

One time, I saw a car signal for a turn, and there was a bicyclist behind him who should have been watching and seeing the car was turning, he couldn't stop in time and hit the side and flew over the top and when he got up, he then tried to blame the driver in front Er.

Was there a bike lane? Are you describing a right hook? If there was a bike lane, this is completely the driver's fault.

 

[Verano]

i dont mind those biking dudes but SF needs to enforce a law to prevent those idiot pedestrians walking across streets like they own that shit....almost got involved several near accidents each day I was there last August. SF peeps just literally just walk in front of your car, and you have to fully stop seconds before you get involved in a possible car accident. Either they're fockin nuts or they have some morbid death wish...anyways moral of the story...take the bus/rail/bike around the city instead riding/driving in a car

 

[Dishwalla]

I'm from Idaho and have never, ever, heard it called this. It's always "California rolling stop."

Yeah, I grew up in Idaho(parents still live there) and I've never heard of an "Idaho stop" either, it was always the "California roll".

 

[sir_kevith]

i dont mind those biking dudes but SF needs to enforce a law to prevent those idiot pedestrians walking across streets like they own that shit....almost got involved several near accidents each day I was there last August. SF peeps just literally just walk in front of your car, and you have to fully stop seconds before you get involved in a possible car accident. Either they're fockin nuts or they have some morbid death wish...anyways moral of the story...take the bus/rail/bike around the city instead riding/driving in a car

My main issue is people walking to their car door and flinging it right open when im driving

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

My main issue is people walking to their car door and flinging it right open when im driving

God, yes, what is this shit? No one's looking around while going in or out of their cars. It's like "I teleported, hooray" and they burst out without looking, or they get so excited by the promise of getting into their teleporter that they forget the world is happening.

 

[majik13]

Lots of hyperbole about. Regardless, I thought it has been shown in a few studies that the Idaho Stop is safer for everyone?


Edit:
https://meggsreport.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/the-idaho-law-allowing-safer-choice-and-happier-travel/

Some UC Berkeley study. But I could probably see why it could be challenging with all the pedestrians in SF, who also walk wherever.

I'm from Idaho and have never, ever, heard it called this. It's always "California rolling stop."

Doesn't California Stop refer to cars, rolling through. Idaho Stop is bikes rolling/yielding stops. Unless California Roll is a thing outside of Sushi?

 

[XAL]

i dont mind those biking dudes but SF needs to enforce a law to prevent those idiot pedestrians walking across streets like they own that shit....almost got involved several near accidents each day I was there last August. SF peeps just literally just walk in front of your car, and you have to fully stop seconds before you get involved in a possible car accident.

Yup. Literally anyone. People walking dogs, people pushing their kids stroller, people letting their children run into the street ahead of them, old people, young people, middle aged, on the phone, off the phone, with friends, etc.

Most of the time, no one even bothers to turn their head. They just walk straight into the street, it doesn't matter if there is a car moving through the intersection 2 feet away from the crosswalk. Don't even register that the car was there, just looking forward without any care.

Total lack of common sense, absolutely zero concern for their own safety under the logic of "I have right of way!/eyyyyyy I'm walkin' here!".

 

[MIMIC]

I honestly don't care what bicyclists do. Wanna run that stop sign? Go right ahead. Wanna run that that red light. I don't care.

But as a practical matter, they should only have to yield.

 

[timetokill]

Definitely need education on both "sides."

The worst is cyclists going back and forth between being on the steak and being on the road. It's really hard for some cars to see beyond a row of parked cars along the sidewalk. So when some cyclist comes flying down the sidewalk at 15mph it's like "whoa, where the fuck did you come from?

Also as somebody who likes to walk, I've been hit by people on bikes far, far too often. Get off the sidewalk, assholes! there's a bike lane for a reason.

 

[joethefoo]

It's weird how some of you post like drivers do everything right. What separates bike riders enough to get the rants?

It feels like when there's talk about gun control because of safety and some guy is like "YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT KITCHEN KNIVES."

Didn't you just use the fallacy you are complaining about? His post was about bicyclists and you just brought up drivers as a counterpoint.


On topic. If this means that everyone has a better understanding of what bicyclists will do I am all for it. Right now I feel like I need to assume they will not yield at all.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Didn't you just use the fallacy you are complaining about? His post was about bicyclists and you just brought up drivers as a counterpoint.

When I see

Most of them are either assholes that think riding a bike gives them a license to disregard the rules of the road or they're just completely uneducated about how traffic works and what's legal.

I'm wondering why one group gets singled out for something everyone does.

 

[ElyrionX]

Cyclists already don't obey red lights (in many cities around the world, including mine) so they probably obey stop signs even less. What difference does this make?

 

[XAL]

When I see

I'm wondering why one group gets singled out for something everyone does.

Hey buddy, you should really just read my reply in full and not be mad that I called cyclists out on their shit by saying that they're shit and irresponsible too.

Again, the singling out bit is all in your head. Like I said in my previous reply to the utter fallacy nonsense that you shat onto the board, I can make an exhaustive list of dumb shit drivers do on the road if you'd like. And another poster reminded me that pedestrians do a whole bunch of dumb shit, so I can make a list about them too if you're still feeling sore about me telling it like it is with regards to cyclists.

 

[Fusebox]

Nothin worse than getting stuck behind a pack of Lance Armstrong wannabes and finally getting a chance to overtake only to have them all shoot past at the next stop sign or red light.

 

[AcridMeat]

Agree with everything XAL is saying.

There have already been accidents in San Francisco with cyclists killing pedestrians for mobbing through an intersection without stopping, to loosen rules is going to make things worse.

 

[XAL]

Agree with everything XAL is saying.

There have already been accidents in San Francisco with cyclists killing pedestrians for mobbing through an intersection without stopping, to loosen rules is going to make things worse.

Yup. I saw some tour de france looking douche smash an elderly woman into the pavement because he was looking at his cell phone as he was cutting through a crosswalk on the wrong side of the street.

I've lived in this city my whole life, and only 4 times have I seen someone bike up to a crosswalk, get off of the bike and walk it through the crosswalk. And two times it was the same guy in the last year, who was wearing full visibility gear with a post on his back that said that cyclists had to walk through the crosswalk along with the law code for it.

 

[massoluk]

Cyclists already don't obey red lights (in many cities around the world, including mine) so they probably obey stop signs even less. What difference does this make?

Swear to the gods, the delivery people in NYC are really just trying to hit people at pedestrian crossing at red light.

 

[XAL]

Swear to the gods, the delivery people in NYC are really just trying to hit people at pedestrian crossing at red light.

I visited New York for the first time in May of this year. I was in an uber car and a shuttle bus going to and from the airport.

Motherfuckers in NYC straight up thread the needle with pedestrians converging on both sides of the street (people literally inches away). This was for both legal crossings and jay walkings (holy shit the jaywalkers cut it close there). It was fucking nuts, I've never been so on edge as a passenger in a car before.

That and marveled by how shit the curbs and curb ramps (or lack thereof) are in that city. The San Francisco ADA and bike lobby would have a fucking foaming-at-the-mouth shit fit if they saw NYC curbs in SF. We're super spoiled here with all of the stuff we have on our curbs by comparison.

 

[ElyrionX]

The problem with cyclists is that they want all the benefits of being a vehicle on the roads with none of the downsides. This happens everywhere in the world. They are, by far, the most self-entitled group of commuters around.

 

[soco]

Not sure if anyone's mentioned it, but part of the problem with this is cyclists slamming into cyclists, which i've watched happen before. depending on the type of bike, you may not have a good peripheral view.

 

[numble]

Yup. I saw some tour de france looking douche smash an elderly woman into the pavement because he was looking at his cell phone as he was cutting through a crosswalk on the wrong side of the street.

I've lived in this city my whole life, and only 4 times have I seen someone bike up to a crosswalk, get off of the bike and walk it through the crosswalk. And two times it was the same guy in the last year, who was wearing full visibility gear with a post on his back that said that cyclists had to walk through the crosswalk along with the law code for it.

Are you saying he is riding on the sidewalk and biked up to a crosswalk? I don't think bikes need to walk across an intersection when they are on the street in the same space as other vehicles--that would actually be dangerous.

 

[XAL]

Are you saying he is riding on the sidewalk and biked up to a crosswalk? I don't think bikes need to walk across an intersection when they are on the street in the same space as other vehicles--that would actually be dangerous.

He was biking west on the eastbound lane on Haight street (moving into the bus pad approaching Stanyan), then cutting into the south crosswalk to go south on Stanyan.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.769...P4UhsJEAwKdDG4DG-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Bikes can go across the intersection if they're in-lane.

What they cannot do is to circumvent traffic by seamlessly cutting into/through crosswalks and biking inside of them and then cutting back into lane. The crosswalk is for pedestrians - not for cars, not for bikes, not for scooters, etc. And I'm not talking about going across them on the road, I'm talking going through them alongside pedestrians as a means of passage around traffic. The law states that if a cyclist wants to travel inside of a crosswalk, they need to get off their bike and walk it and then get back on the bike after they exit the bounds of the crosswalk.

Not legal and dangerous to pedestrians and the cyclists themselves.

 

[Zips]

Personally I hate driving alongside bicyclists. There's a huge tendency for them to ignore the rules and switch between sidewalk and road depending on which will be faster, as well as darting around between cars even at stops and intersections. Coupled with how incredibly vulnerable they are on the road, I have to be all the more cautious whenever I see one. It seems a bit one-sided and can be aggravating, especially when it seems the cyclist is relying on me caring more about their safety than they seem to.

Separated bike/car lanes, with traffic signals and signs applying to each. Follow the rules!

 

[hydrophilic attack]

All vehicles, bicycles included, should stop at the fucking stop sign. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[Ikuu]

All vehicles, bicycles included, should stop at the fucking stop sign. Why is this so hard to understand?

Did you watch the video in the article?

 

[XAL]

Did you watch the video in the article?

I don't see one.

 

[Ikuu]

Oh it was an article someone else posted, http://abc7news.com/traffic/san-francisco-bicyclists-protest-outdated-traffic-laws/892465/