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[Trevor360]

I'm not bringing family into this. You'll notice the baby and DUI controversies aren't present.

How big of you!

 

[ronito]

Isn't that what the rest of poligaf is for?

if there was a need/demand for more libertopian points of view the market would create them. THE MARKET PREVAILS!!

 

[CharlieDigital]

if there was a need/demand for more libertopian points of view the market would create them. THE MARKET PREVAILS!!

:lol

 

[Gaborn]

if there was a need/demand for more libertopian points of view the market would create them. THE MARKET PREVAILS!!

I'm not the one that demands that other people conform to my beliefs :lol (I don't think I could survive long on gaf much less in poligaf threads if that was the case)

Edit - Also worth noting, she just stated in her speech tonight that she supports alternative fuel sources, "wind, solar, hydro, anything else" as well as drilling, so that needs to be changed to be factual.

 

[maynerd]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-earmarks3-2008sep03,0,2482434.story

 

[Raistlin]

if there was a need/demand for more libertopian points of view the market would create them. THE MARKET PREVAILS!!

GOVERNMENT INTERVENTIONS ARE PREVENTING IT *kittownyangry.gif*

 

[greepoman]

I'm not bringing family into this. You'll notice the baby and DUI controversies aren't present.

While you're not bringing family in to this don't forget to not mention the pregnant daughter who holds parties at the governors mansion, the future son-in-law who doesn't want to have kids, Jamie Lynne Spears sent some gifts to Bristol, etc. etc. lol

But anyway when are we gonna have the clip from the daily show showing all the talking heads including Sarah Palin denouncing all the sexist arguments they ended up using in the past couple days?

 

[Son of Godzilla]

:lol @ the censoring of the list. You should just list off every documented controversy, to hell with the "fairness" or whatever Dub is whining about. And loyalty-gate and My Esteemed Opponent Eats Baby Fetuses, So Please Elect Me Your Mayor (And it's gubernatorial sequel Flip-Flop-gate) deserve mentions anyway. You didn't even list the book banning nonsense? I'll get links for this stuff in a second. Edit: It's all in http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html If something more is needed, say something.

Fuck, she endorsed the person running against her mother in law for her leftover position. Forget all else, that's the thing that gets under my skin.

 

[Giganticus]

Actually Jaydub, although she was not a member, her husband was

Actually Gaborn, although she was not a member, she gave introductions to the annual convention.

Edit - Also worth noting, she just stated in her speech tonight that she supports alternative fuel sources, "wind, solar, hydro, anything else" as well as drilling, so that needs to be changed to be factual.

Yes of course, she was entirely sincere about this. Entirely. Despite running a state which makes billions off oil revenues, she's entirely sincere about promoting her competition, which is something she's never mentioned before last night. Interesting.

EDIT: a new one!

In a fit of corruption and self serving desires, Palin mangles up the entire Board of Agriculture and Conservation to put taxpayer money in the pockets of her friends.

 

[soul creator]

Community Organizer gate - make fun of community organizing while simultaneously playing up your PTA experience (which generally involves, um, organizing with other parents in the community to benefit education)

 

[qcf x2]

I just have to say that this was the worst, most desperate pick I have ever not only seen but heard/read about. In history. They are going to lose many, many votes. The Republicans had an uphill struggle that they just turned into a climb up Olympus Mons. I'm almost tempted to call conspiracy on the Democrats. :lol

 

[140.85]

which is something she's never mentioned before last night

Wrong. Scrub to the 10 min. mark.

 

[Giganticus]

Wrong. Scrub to the 10 min. mark.

Fine. But she's never mentioned it before she was VP pick. It's a cynical attempt to grab any left leaning republicans who want better energy policy.

 

[jorma]

Creationism-gate - Explicitly False:

Palin's position is that she doesn't mind if there's a debate about the topic in Biology class but she doesn't push for creationism to become part of the curriculum, so... that's kind of not what you said at all.

I think this is not at all explicitly false; you cannot propose "healthy debate" on one issue and then suppress it completely on another issue. It sort of lends to the belief that she only proposes "healthy debate" when the issue is something she agrees with.


I simply cannot fit these two nuggets together without concluding she is a creationist and wants it to be taught in schools:

Sarah Palin supports teaching creationism in public schools. “You know, don’t be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it’s so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both,” she said in a debate.


Earlier today the Associated Press reported that Sen. John McCain (Ariz.), the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, opposed funding to prevent teen pregnancies, a position that Palin also took as governor. "The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support," she wrote in a 2006 questionnaire distributed among gubernatorial candidates.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I think it's pretty disingenuous to say that she had no sympathies whatsoever for the succession movement, whether she bought into it wholesale or not. That's just not the way marriages work, you can't have one person into something that big while the other is in total opposition - and she made no noises that she was. You have to entertain the notion that she was at the very least neutral towards the whole thing at some point.

Of course, it would be equally as disingenuous to say that she supports the idea now after having been an active member of multiple US governing bodies for several years. But that doesn't mean it should be completely of the table for discussion or dismissed out of hand as unfair. If Obama's pastor is a topic of discussion, it's not unreasonable to say a spouse is an equally great influence in one's life - if not greater.

I think this is not at all explicitly false; you cannot propose "healthy debate" on one issue and then suppress it completely on another issue. It sort of lends to the belief that she only proposes "healthy debate" when the issue is something she agrees with.


I simply cannot fit these two nuggets together without concluding she is a creationist and wants it to be taught in schools

That's unfair. Everybody is on on side or another in that debate, so preferring one argument doesn't invalidate your proposal for its inclusion.

But yes, she is explicitly Christian, and yes, she openly wants it to be part of the discussion in schools. You can't put any other spin on that, though several people here seem to be trying.

What I find problematic is the notion that this is something that needs to be defended against. As long as it's a discussion and not a speech given to the exclusion of the other side, it's a positive. Frankly, people on both sides of the religious fence need to learn how to better engage with one another. That's an ability that's sorely deficient in North American society at large and on this site in particular.

 

[Giganticus]

What I find problematic is the notion that this is something that needs to be defended against. As long as it's a discussion and not a speech given to the exclusion of the other side, it's a positive. Frankly, people on both sides of the religious fence need to learn how to better engage with one another. That's an ability that's sorely deficient in North American society at large and on this site in particular.

This isn't the place for the validity of creationism (in science classes). jorma is just pointing out how her seemingly hypocritical opinions of "information should be provided in this case and debate is healthy (and furthers my religious beliefs), but withheld in this other case where debate is evil (and could undermine my religious beliefs)" point that she is creationist and is very much an "establishment clause" opponent.

I wouldn't say this is a bad thing that was missed during the "vetting", especially with regards to her base. But it is important to know she's a creationist, and pushes religious viewpoints into public education. See also: banning library books that had "vulgar language".

 

[Nander]

Great OP! You should add "dairy-gate" under Corruption.

 

[chico]

What is your take on global warming and how is it affecting our country?

Palin: A changing environment will affect Alaska more than any other state, because of our location. I’m not one though who would attribute it to being man-made.


wow... Palin stands for everything i despise in humanity!

so glad im living in europe....

 

[Ceres]

Why bother calling threads like this PoliGAF? You all should really be renamed ObamaGAF.

 

[Giganticus]

You don't need to be an Obama fan to think Sarah Palin is a bad pick or think that Obama will beat John McCain.

But sure, pick on "internet bias!1!". It's got nothing to do with the last 8 years of incompetent government, a fracturing Republican party with the worst ticket in a looooong time, and one of the best politicians of recent times rising on the other side of the political fence.

 

[SetUhatU]

:lol @ thread

It will bring me great joy to return to this thread in 2 months and see your reaction to your new vice president sarah palin. bwahhahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahaha

:lol

 

[Gaborn]

Actually Gaborn, although she was not a member, she gave introductions to the annual convention.

And we all know no governor would EVER speak to a group she or he was not a member of.

 

[JKBii]

I always find it funny that when Democrats lose an election and complain that it shouldn't be possible for anyone with as much dirt as Candidate R to have won, this is what they're talking about.

 

[bafflewaffle]

roger simon apologizes

Why the media should apologize
By: Roger Simon
September 4, 2008 05:36 PM EST

ST. PAUL, Minn. — On behalf of the media, I would like to say we are sorry.

On behalf of the elite media, I would like to say we are very sorry.

We have asked questions this week that we should never have asked.

We have asked pathetic questions like: Who is Sarah Palin? What is her record? Where does she stand on the issues? And is she is qualified to be a heartbeat away from the presidency?

We have asked mean questions like: How well did John McCain know her before he selected her? How well did his campaign vet her? And was she his first choice?

Bad questions. Bad media. Bad.

It is not our job to ask questions. Or it shouldn’t be. To hear from the pols at the Republican National Convention this week, our job is to endorse and support the decisions of the pols.

Sarah Palin hit the nail on the head Wednesday night (and several in the audience wish she had hit some reporters on the head instead) when she said: “I’m not a member of the permanent political establishment. And I’ve learned quickly, these past few days, that if you’re not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone.”

But where did we go wrong with Sarah Palin? Let me count the ways:

First, we should have stuck to the warm, human interest stuff like how she likes mooseburgers and hit an important free throw at her high school basketball tournament even though she had a stress fracture.

Second, we should have stuck to the press release stuff like how she opposed the Bridge to Nowhere (after she supported it).

Third, we should never have strayed into the other stuff. Like when The Washington Post recently wrote: “Palin is under investigation by a bipartisan state legislative body. … Palin had promised to cooperate with the legislative inquiry, but this week she hired a lawyer to fight to move the case to the jurisdiction of the state personnel board, which Palin appoints.”

Why go there? What trees does that plant?

Fourth, we should stop making with all the questions already. She gave a really good speech. And why go beyond that? As we all know, speeches cannot be written by others and rehearsed for days. They are true windows to the soul.

Unless they are delivered by Barack Obama, that is. In which case, as Palin said Wednesday, speeches are just a “cloud of rhetoric.”

Fifth, we should stop reporting on the families of the candidates. Unless the candidates want us to.

Sarah Palin wanted the media to report on her teenage son, Track, who enlisted in the Army on Sept. 11, 2007, and soon will deploy to Iraq.

Sarah Palin did not want the media to report on her teenage daughter, Bristol, who is pregnant and unmarried.

Sarah Palin thinks that one is good for her campaign and one is not, and that the media should report only on what is good for her campaign. That is our job, and that is our duty. If that is not actually in the Constitution, it should be. (And someday may be.)

The official theme of the convention’s third day was “prosperity,” but the unofficial theme was “the media are really, really awful.”

Even Mike Huckabee, who campaigned for president this year by saying “I am a conservative, but I am not mad at anybody,” discovered Wednesday night that he is mad at somebody.

“I’d like to thank the elite media for doing something,” Huckabee said, “that, quite frankly, I didn’t think could be done: unify the Republican Party and all of America in support of John McCain and Sarah Palin.”

And could that be the real point of the attacks on the media? To unify the Republican Party?

No, that is simply the cynical, media view.

Though as Lily Tomlin says, “No matter how cynical I get, it’s just never enough to keep up.”

I couldn’t resist that. For which I am sorry.

 

[DeadTrees]

And we all know no governor would EVER speak to a group she or he was not a member of.

Exactly, I'm sure she introduced every single one of those speakers as "that ungrateful America-hating fucker".

 

[M3wThr33]

roger simon apologizes

That is beautiful.

 

[ZealousD]

Troopergate Update!

According to the Anchorage Daily News, Palin's lawyer tried to threaten legislative investigator Steve Branchflower with Secret Service action, after Branchflower had called Todd Palin on a confidential line. Her lawyer called it a "security breach".

http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/516641.html

Also, ABC News is reporting that the final results of the investigation may be reported up to three weeks earlier than originally planned.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5734511&page=1

 

[Rentahamster]

So is there going to be a "lame controversies" thread for the other three candidates as well?

 

[Kintaco]

So is there going to be a "lame controversies" thread for the other three candidates as well?

Sure why not. Start it up.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Troopergate Update!

According to the Anchorage Daily News, Palin's lawyer tried to threaten legislative investigator Steve Branchflower with Secret Service action, after Branchflower had called Todd Palin on a confidential line. Her lawyer called it a "security breach".

http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/516641.html

Also, ABC News is reporting that the final results of the investigation may be reported up to three weeks earlier than originally planned.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5734511&page=1

Good god, she's Bush with tits.

 

[ZealousD]

So is there going to be a "lame controversies" thread for the other three candidates as well?

I won't stop you.

 

[Azih]

Honestly the oodles of earmarks and horrible fiscal management of Wasila are solid facts that completely scupper the bullshit image the McCain campaign is trying to create of Palin as MAVERICK Reformer Part II. The rest is emotional fluff with the exception of the scandal/abuse of power investsigations.

 

[basik]

heres one:

JewsForJesus-Gate

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html

audio link of the church session:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AQ3EAO0K

he says the quoted line at 27:30 in the mp3

An illustration of that gap came just two weeks ago, when Palin’s church, the Wasilla Bible Church, gave its pulpit over to a figure viewed with deep hostility by many Jewish organizations: David Brickner, the executive director of Jews for Jesus.

Palin’s pastor, Larry Kroon, introduced Brickner on Aug. 17, according to a transcript of the sermon on the church’s website.

“He’s a leader of Jews for Jesus, a ministry that is out on the leading edge in a pressing, demanding area of witnessing and evangelism,” Kroon said.

Brickner then explained that Jesus and his disciples were themselves Jewish.

“The Jewish community, in particular, has a difficult time understanding this reality,” he said.
Brickner’s mission has drawn wide criticism from the organized Jewish community, and the Anti-Defamation League accused them in a report of “targeting Jews for conversion with subterfuge and deception.”

Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity.

"Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it."

Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her.

Digging deeper, the problem's get even worse. According to a Jews for Jesus pamphlet, Pastor Kroon himself became a pastor because of Jews for Jesus.

From the pamplet (available here: http://files.jewsforjesus.org/pdf/newsle tter/Newsletter-2004-08.pdf )

"'If it were not for Jews for Jesus, I would not be standing here,' the pastor announced. 'And here is their executive director, who has come to speak to us this morning.'

 

[Azih]

Dammit basik, bashing Palin for church activities is as bad as bashing Obama for Wright. Stop it.

 

[JzeroT1437]

Is nobody else sick of reading this woman's name? It's the only thing I've seen on TV or when opening a web browser for the last week or so.

 

[ManaByte]

:lol @ thread

It will bring me great joy to return to this thread in 2 months and see your reaction to your new vice president sarah palin. bwahhahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahaha

:lol

This. The election thread meltdown this time around will make the 2004 Kerry "I'M MOVING TO CANADA" meltdown look like nothing in comparison.

 

[basik]

Dammit basik, bashing Palin for church activities is as bad as bashing Obama for Wright. Stop it.

well I still think it should be reported.

what about the alaska independence party? her husband has been confirmed to be a member for atleast 7 years...

 

[Azih]

well I still think it should be reported.

what about the alaska independence party? her husband has been confirmed to be a member for atleast 7 years...

Are you High?

 

[MIMIC]

What's this thing I hear about her putting a plane on eBay?

 

[basik]

Are you High?

what? you dont think its a story that someone who wants to be VP has connections to a group that wants to secede from the usa? its not a rumor either, they have his vote registration records, its a fact.

 

[speculawyer]

Nice hockey mom . . . but president?

Poll: Only 4 in 10 say Palin has enough experience

WASHINGTON - Just four in 10 say Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin has enough experience to be president, while nearly two-thirds say so about Joe Biden, her Democratic counterpart, a poll showed Friday.

Views of Palin largely reflect partisan loyalty and show she's having little initial impact on which presidential ticket people support, the ABC News survey showed.

Eight in 10 Republicans and more than four in 10 independents say they have more confidence in Republican presidential nominee John McCain's decision-making for his selection of Palin. Six in 10 Democrats say it reduces theirs.

More have a favorable than unfavorable view of Palin by 50 percent to 37 percent — a bit less than the 54 percent to 30 percent positive opinion they have of Biden. Palin is seen favorably by 85 percent of Republicans, 24 percent of Democrats and 53 percent of independents.

By just 6 percentage points, people say her choice makes them likelier to vote for than against the McCain ticket. Pivotal GOP voting blocs — conservatives, Republicans and white evangelicals — are all likelier to support than oppose McCain because of Palin by 32 points or more.

Biden makes people likelier to support Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama by 12 points. Most say neither vice presidential pick will make a difference.

Seven in 10 say the pregnancy of Palin's unmarried teenage daughter doesn't affect their view of Palin. By 2-to-1 most say the mother of five — including an infant with Down syndrome — made the right choice to become McCain's running mate.

Women and men back Palin's choice to run about equally. Republicans and independents are far likelier than Democrats to support her decision.

Four in 10 say Palin's choice to have her youngest child after a diagnosis of Down syndrome makes them feel more favorably about her, while just over half say it had no impact.

The poll was conducted Thursday and involved telephone interviews with 505 adults. It had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4.5 percentage points.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080905/ap_on_el_pr/palin_poll

Oooh, the pick didn't score well with independents.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Dammit basik, bashing Palin for church activities is as bad as bashing Obama for Wright. Stop it.

What about the stuff she actually says in a church?

At 3:46: "That our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task from God"
I realize that this crap is oldhat in this day and age, but it's still disgusting to hear.

 

[Kintaco]

Also her husband had a gerbil up his ass back in his college years.

 

[speculawyer]

Also her husband had a gerbil up his ass back in his college years.

She was married to Richard Gere?

But seriously, stop that shit. Facts only.

 

[Agent Ironside]

Fortunately for McCain and Palin, this election will be a humbling experience for Obama and Dems alike.

Cant wait.

 

[btrboyev]

4-10 is still too much. She has literally no qualifications to be VP or President.

Being a major is some small hick town does not count. She hasn't even been gov for two years.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

even Oprah is being pressed to have Palin on. I can't believe how Americans can make a celebrity out of anyone in just a matter of days.

can any of these stories touch her now?

 

[Kintaco]

She was married to Richard Gere?

But seriously, stop that shit. Facts only.

Well how many of the bullet points in the OP are actual facts? Seems like they are accusations. I can't stand the gilf, but come on now.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

You didn't even list the book banning nonsense? I'll get links for this stuff in a second. Edit: It's all in http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html If something more is needed, say something.

Among many, this one's a HUGE red flag for me. I'm honestly disappointed that there isn't more concern about this kind of behavior and the thinking that goes behind it. GAF is always ferocious when it comes to censorship of games or music or whatever. But this shit sliding by in the night is ridiculous.

Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.

 

[Giganticus]

Well how many of the bullet points in the OP are actual facts? Seems like they are accusations. I can't stand the gilf, but come on now.

The very fact that these potential controversies exist are enough to justify questioning the validity of the pick and the wisdom of McCain. If there was thorough vetting beforehand, maybe McCain (or whoever handles him) would've made a pick that the media wouldn't've torn apart.

Either Sarah Palin was vetted, and McCain made a really bad decision, or she wasn't vetted, and McCain made a really bad decision.


Let's not forget that if even a quarter of these allegations prove true, the GOP ticket is screwed because of it.

Among many, this one's a HUGE red flag for me. I'm honestly disappointed that there isn't more concern about this kind of behavior and the thinking that goes behind it. GAF is always ferocious when it comes to censorship of games or music or whatever. But this shit sliding by in the night is ridiculous.

The truth? The evangelical base would support her even more if this proved true. Time to scrap all those pesky copies of Fahrenheit 451 and To Kill a Mockingbird!