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[Sho_Nuff82]

I wonder if they would stone a saudi princes for committing adultery...

The rules are GoT style most likely. Everyone looks the other way while the king drinks and whores his way around the kingdom, but if the queen steps out, she has committed treason punishable by death.

 

[RedSonja]

Punishments such as this are ridiculous, inhumane, and stupid.
However, respectfully, there is some (very little and very stupid) method to the punishments. If you commit adultery while married you are sentenced to death over in Saudi Arabia, but if you commit it and you are single you get one hundred lashes. Since her man was not the married one, that means she was the married one.
But, absolutely, these punishments are so idiotic, inhumane, cruel, and ridiculous.

 

[LordDash]

Globally depressed oil prices (which ain't getting better inside of at least the next 18 months) coupled with the first budget deficit in many years, says that the regime are on thin ice in terms of keeping the population happy. If they can't buy peace using oil revenues they are in trouble.

True, my father and mother went through a 30% cut from their monthly salaries. Benefits and overtime are also getting thrown out. The economey is bleeding and it's starting to take its toll on the people here. But then you've got the elite class who see losing a couple of millions as nothing, it's all pocket money to them.

 

[Eternal Gamer]

Saudi Arabia being a member of the Humans Rights Council show how much the UN is a joke.

 

[triplestation]

That's savage

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Saudi Arabia being a member of the Humans Rights Council show how much the UN is a joke.

I think the HRC always nominates from the pool of the worst human rights abusers, so that nothing ever actually gets done and no one gets their feelings hurt.

 

[kruis]

So why don't they stone the guy, too?

Because shariah law values men above women - and since women are sinful beings the man was obviously led to sin by her and not the other way round.

What else can you expect from a middle eastern religion founded in the 7th century? This barbarism should remain in the dark middle ages, it has no place in the 21st century.

 

[Disxo]

http://youtu.be/g7TAAw3oQvg

Making assumptions out of exagerated statistics,No. I dont take his word as truth.

 

[blu]

That infographic. Interesting to know how it is carried out.

The rock size part is like some bizarro "Three Bears" fairy tale. This one is too small, this one is too big, and this one is juuuuust right. Jesus.

And here is a random white doctor... why would he ever stop the stoning periodically? If there is no choice just get it over with as fast as possible. Don't stop it to prolong the suffering. Ahhhh the thought of the length sends shivers down my spine.

Finally, why have the men be buried only waste high and the women up to their shoulders? Is it it some kind of thought process of "we don't want to be hitting female breasts"?

If you read it carefully you'll understand ..

Spoiler

the victim can wiggle themselves out, and if so they have the right to go free .. it's impossible to wiggle out from being buried to the neck, but it is when it's to the waist

 

[Stinkles]

Never actually read anything on the structure of sharia have you?

Just got to the parts about the ridiclous crimes and absurd punishments?

How about this:

Sharia judicial proceedings have significant differences from other legal traditions, including those in both common law and civil law. Sharia courts traditionally do not rely on lawyers; plaintiffs and defendants represent themselves. Trials are conducted solely by the judge, and there is no jury system. There is no pre-trial discovery process, and no cross-examination of witnesses. Unlike common law, judges' verdicts do not set binding precedents[146][147] under the principle of stare decisis,[148] and unlike civil law, sharia is left to the interpretation in each case and has no formally codified universal statutes.[149]

The rules of evidence in sharia courts also maintain a distinctive custom of prioritizing oral testimony.[150] Witnesses, in a sharia court system, must be faithful, that is Muslim.[151] Male Muslim witnesses are deemed more reliable than female Muslim witnesses, and non-Muslim witnesses considered unreliable and receive no priority in a sharia court.[152][153] In civil cases, a Muslim woman witness is considered half the worth and reliability than a Muslim man witness.[154][155] In criminal cases, women witnesses are unacceptable in stricter, traditional interpretations of sharia, such as those found in Hanbali madhhab.[151]

Criminal cases

A confession, an oath, or the oral testimony of Muslim witnesses are the main evidence admissible, in sharia courts, for hudud crimes, that is the religious crimes of adultery, fornication, rape, accusing someone of illicit sex but failing to prove it, apostasy, drinking intoxicants and theft.[156][157][158] Testimony must be from at least two free Muslim male witnesses, or one Muslim male and two Muslim females, who are not related parties and who are of sound mind and reliable character. Testimony to establish the crime of adultery, fornication or rape must be from four Muslim male witnesses, with some fiqhs allowing substitution of up to three male with six female witnesses; however, at least one must be a Muslim male.[159] Forensic evidence (i.e., fingerprints, ballistics, blood samples, DNA etc.) and other circumstantial evidence is likewise rejected in hudud cases in favor of eyewitnesses, a practice which can cause severe difficulties for women plaintiffs in rape cases.[160][161]

Muslim jurists have debated whether and when coerced confession and coerced witnesses are acceptable. The majority opinion of jurists in the Hanafi madhhab, for example, ruled that torture to get evidence is acceptable and such evidence is valid, but a 17th-century text by Hanafi jurist Muhammad Shaykhzade argued that coerced confession should be invalid; Shaykhzade acknowledged that beating to get confession has been authorized in fatwas by many Islamic jurists.[162]

Civil cases

Quran recommends written contracts in the case of debt-related transactions, and oral contracts for commercial and other civil contracts.[155][163] Marriage is solemnized as a written financial contract, in the presence of two Muslim male witnesses, and it includes a brideprice (Mahr) payable from a Muslim man to a Muslim woman. The brideprice is considered by a sharia court as a form of debt. Written contracts are paramount, in sharia courts, in the matters of dispute that are debt-related, which includes marriage contracts.[164] Written contracts in debt-related cases, when notarized by a judge, is deemed more reliable.[165]

In commercial and civil contracts, such as those relating to exchange of merchandise, agreement to supply or purchase goods or property, and others, oral contracts and the testimony of Muslim witnesses triumph over written contracts. Sharia system has held that written commercial contracts may be forged.[165][166] Timur Kuran states that the treatment of written evidence in religious courts in Islamic regions created an incentive for opaque transactions, and the avoidance of written contracts in economic relations. This led to a continuation of a "largely oral contracting culture" in Muslim nations and communities.[166][167]

In lieu of written evidence, oaths are accorded much greater weight; rather than being used simply to guarantee the truth of ensuing testimony, they are themselves used as evidence. Plaintiffs lacking other evidence to support their claims may demand that defendants take an oath swearing their innocence, refusal thereof can result in a verdict for the plaintiff.[168] Taking an oath for Muslims can be a grave act; one study of courts in Morocco found that lying litigants would often "maintain their testimony 'right up to the moment of oath-taking and then to stop, refuse the oath, and surrender the case."[169] Accordingly, defendants are not routinely required to swear before testifying, which would risk casually profaning the Quran should the defendant commit perjury;[169] instead oaths are a solemn procedure performed as a final part of the evidence process.

Sentencing

Main article: Diyya

Sharia courts treat women and men as unequal, with Muslim woman's life and blood-money compensation sentence (Diyya) as half as that of a Muslim man's life.[170][171] Sharia also treats Muslims and non-Muslims as unequal in the sentencing process.[172] Human Rights Watch and United States' Religious Freedom Report note that in sharia courts of Saudi Arabia, "The calculation of accidental death or injury compensation is discriminatory. In the event a court renders a judgment in favor of a plaintiff who is a Jewish or Christian male, the plaintiff is only entitled to receive 50 percent of the compensation a Muslim male would receive; all other non-Muslims [Buddhists, Hindus, Jains, Atheists] are only entitled to receive one-sixteenth of the amount a male Muslim would receive".[173][174][175]

Saudi Arabia follows Hanbali sharia, whose historic jurisprudence texts considered a Christian or Jew life as half the worth of a Muslim. Jurists of other schools of law in Islam have ruled differently. For example, Shafi'i sharia considers a Christian or Jew life as a third the worth of a Muslim, and Maliki's sharia considers it worth half.[172] The legal schools of Hanafi, Maliki and Shafi'i Sunni Islam as well as those of twelver Shia Islam have considered the life of polytheists and atheists as one-fifteenth the value of a Muslim during sentencing.[172]

 

[pr0cs]

Globally depressed oil prices (which ain't getting better inside of at least the next 18 months) coupled with the first budget deficit in many years, says that the regime are on thin ice in terms of keeping the population happy. If they can't buy peace using oil revenues they are in trouble.

You do realize that SA is a key member of OPEC right? You know, the guys that are creating the oil revenue crisis to begin with.

 

[PillarEN]

If you read it carefully you'll understand ..

Spoiler

the victim can wiggle themselves out, and if so they have the right to go free .. it's impossible to wiggle out from being berried to the neck, but it is when it's to the waist

Oh yeah you're right. Near the very end. I wonder how many have been so lucky. Not including examples where people would "accidentally" miss and let the person wiggle out because they didn't really actually want to stone them.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

http://youtu.be/g7TAAw3oQvg

Fuck Sharia Law, but also fuck Ben Shapiro. He is a huge piece of shit. He writes for breitbart or whatever.

Has written awesome works like:

socialism violates 3 commandments

how leftism violates the 10 commandments

Dude is a right wing piece of shit.

 

[ElTorro]

How about this:

Saudi Arabia follows Hanbali sharia, whose historic jurisprudence texts considered a Christian or Jew life as half the worth of a Muslim. Jurists of other schools of law in Islam have ruled differently. For example, Shafi'i sharia considers a Christian or Jew life as a third the worth of a Muslim, and Maliki's sharia considers it worth half.[172] The legal schools of Hanafi, Maliki and Shafi'i Sunni Islam as well as those of twelver Shia Islam have considered the life of polytheists and atheists as one-fifteenth the value of a Muslim during sentencing.[172]

Charming...

And some apologists have assured me here that the endless barbaric demonization of non-believers in the Qur'an could not possibly have any practical implications on the views of devout believers on non-believers.

Dude is a right wing piece of shit.

That's why we cannot leave the critical discussion of these issues to right-wingers like him.

 

[kitch9]

If a dude came down from a lone vacation on a mountain today and proclaimed he'd spent the last month talking to an angel so everyone had to do what he said or else how far would you think he'd get?

Islam.

Christianity.

A pregnant bird who was a virgin... Honest.

Shit blows my mind that the human race is wasting so much energy on this stuff. Religion is holding us back massively.

 

[RealityCheque]

You do realize that SA is a key member of OPEC right? You know, the guys that are creating the oil revenue crisis to begin with.

Well aware of the fact. SA wants to kill US shale so its a case of take the short term pain to profit in the future, pissing off their people is a chance they seem to be willing to take. A risky game, given the backdrop of falling demand as well, the world is unable to thrive with higher cost oil and the producers can't make any money with it under $50 (and i'm being generous with that). OPEC are creating part of the crisis, but there's no unified agreement among them. See Venezuela for the end product of supplying below the cost of production. SA has more dry powder but the end result is the same.

Just a matter of who can take the pain for the longest.

 

[arts&crafts]

This is some sick shit and I am in no way condoning it, however I am surprised that people still commit adultery when they know that they will actually be stoned to death if caught. That would be a serious deterrence for me to sleep around.

 

[Byakuya769]

I think the HRC always nominates from the pool of the worst human rights abusers, so that nothing ever actually gets done and no one gets their feelings hurt.

Well, they'll chase after western democracies for comparably laughable offenses.

 

[kitch9]

This is some sick shit and I am in no way condoning it, however I am surprised that people still commit adultery when they know that they will actually be stoned to death if caught. That would be a serious deterrence for me to sleep around.

Imagine being falsely accused of it, thrown in front of a kangaroo court, then having the first stone thrown by your false accuser...

 

[entremet]

So why don't they stone the guy, too?

He was probably tempted by her feminine wiles

/s

 

[ElTorro]

If a dude came down from a lone vacation on a mountain today and proclaimed he'd spent the last month talking to an angel so everyone had to do what he said or else how far would you think he'd get?

Islam.

Christianity.

A pregnant bird who was a virgin... Honest.

Shit blows my mind.

Gullibility is a universal concept. It still worked great for Joseph Smith and Mormonism. And it works well for countless quacks in areas like spirituality, alternative medicine, conspiracy theories, etc. We have believing brains. I wouldn't be suprised if the dude coming from a mountain would still work greatly today. The spreading of such ideas around the glove would have to be left to larger processes, but after a few centuries it could we widely accepted. Because for some weird the reason, the older a whacky idea is the more respectable it seems to be.

 

[blu]

Oh yeah you're right. Near the very end. I wonder how many have been so lucky. Not including examples where people would "accidentally" miss and let the person wiggle out because they didn't really actually want to stone them.

Mob executions are usually quite effective - for every person hesitant to carry out the fatal blow there are dozens who are willing.

That before considering that wiggling yourself out from being neck-deep buried is absolutely impossible. The hypocrisy in that, erm, 'law' is monumental.

But then again, a woman equals half a man, which is essentially the same as a non-believer, so men are given a hypothetical chance. Women are not.

 

[szaromir]

Mob executions are usually quite effective - for every person hesitant to carry out the fatal blow there are dozens who are willing.

That before considering that wiggling yourself out from being neck-deep berried is absolutely impossible. The hypocrisy in that, erm, 'law' is monumental.

But then again, a woman equals half a man, which is essentially the same as a non-believer, so men are given a hypothetical chance. Women are not.

There's no way for a man to wiggle himself out in time, not if he's tied up and buried like that. I anything it only makes his execution more painful and longer, since being limited only to the head means you'll get the fatal blow quicker.
I can't believe I'm discussing this sick stuff, it shouldn't be reality in this day and age anywhere on the planet...

 

[Kabouter]

Wish foreigners would stop going to that country. That will be the beginning of change for that place.

You're saying less exposure to civilized peoples is likely to make them more civilized? Not that I think any foreigner should have to set foot there mind you. Lord knows I wouldn't.

 

[Kinyou]

So why don't they stone the guy, too?

I could imagine that he wasn't married while she was. Though also not sure if they would make that kind of differentiation if the roles were reversed.

 

[Lamel]

Literally half a billion or so of savages. Disgusting.

I actually think that in these polls its the pressure to conform to religious teachings that leads to the overwhelming affirmative response to these questions. Like, someone has heard that in the quran this is the punishment that is allotted for adultery, so they HAVE to say yes, otherwise they are sinners. You can also see a stark cultural and geographic difference from this poll too. It's actually pretty interesting.

 

[blu]

There's no way for a man to wiggle himself out in time, not if he's tied up and buried like that. I anything it only makes his execution more painful and longer, since being limited only to the head means you'll get the fatal blow quicker.
I can't believe I'm discussing this sick stuff, it shouldn't be reality in this day and age anywhere on the planet...

I'm not going to argue with you about what chances one gets to survive the situation as described. BUT I'll say that fatal torture has never left this world. Not everywhere it's 'the law', of course. But even in those parts where it's not the law currently, it has been the law at one stage or another (e.g. drowning of witches)

 

[King_Moc]

What a despicable fucking country. It embarrasses me that my country still deals with these sexist, hate filled murderers.

I had to read up on this Sharia law thing and I found this on wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#Application_by_country

Is it how court proceeding look like in many Muslim countries? That's so fucked up and repugnant on so many levels.

So it's like a worse version of apartheid?

 

[ElTorro]

I actually think that in these polls its the pressure to conform to religious teachings that leads to the overwhelming affirmative response to these questions. Like, someone has heard that in the quran this is the punishment that is allotted for adultery, so they HAVE to say yes, otherwise they are sinners. You can also see a stark cultural and geographic difference from this poll too. It's actually pretty interesting.

Probably. Which is a problem because the same is true when these people go to the voting booth or decide in other ways on policies.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Fuck everything about this shit hole.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

This is some sick shit and I am in no way condoning it, however I am surprised that people still commit adultery when they know that they will actually be stoned to death if caught. That would be a serious deterrence for me to sleep around.

Wasn't there some story not too long ago about a 13 year old girl who got gang raped by 3 dudes and then was sentenced to death by stoning for formication?

I'm willing to bet a lot of these cases aren't just chicks sleeping around.

 

[Sky Chief]

This is some sick shit and I am in no way condoning it, however I am surprised that people still commit adultery when they know that they will actually be stoned to death if caught. That would be a serious deterrence for me to sleep around.

It could be rape

Imagine being raped and then stoned to death because you committed adultery

 

[Burt]

Fuck everything about this shit hole.

I've always wondered who "he who is without sin" is. Thanks, Saudi Arabia!

and holy shit at article 16

 

[fester]

This is some sick shit and I am in no way condoning it, however I am surprised that people still commit adultery when they know that they will actually be stoned to death if caught. That would be a serious deterrence for me to sleep around.

It's as effective as all other forms of capital punishment - which to my knowledge has never been successful as a deterrent. Plus, we're talking about a basic human biological need/instinct (sex), it's not surprising to see that override whatever evil, bullshit laws a group of people try to enforce.

 

[mattiewheels]

I'm gonna be the cynic here and assume that this law is actually a really easy way to get a lady you don't like killed. How much do they question these witnesses anyway?

 

[ElTorro]

I'm gonna be the cynic here and assume that this law is actually a really easy way to get a lady you don't like killed. How much do they question these witnesses anyway?

Probably. The same was true with witch trials in Europe. If you wanted to get rid of somebody you just accused her witchcraft.

 

[Jelly Rajah]

Ignorant people hating on Islam. The stoning thing isn't in any part of the Quran.

 

[liquidtmd]

Saudi Arabia - congrats on being the same as ISIS!

 

[ElTorro]

Ignorant people hating on Islam. The stoning thing isn't in any part of the Quran.

But it is in respected Hadith collections. Which, as recollections of the life of the Prophet, are authoritative parts of Islamic doctrine for most Muslims. And apart from that, the Qur'an mandates 100 lashes as punishment for adultery, which is certainly not a position that's compatible with human rights either. I quoted sources earlier in this thread. It seems to me that you are not sufficiently educated on this issue yourself.

 

[King_Moc]

It's as effective as all other forms of capital punishment - which to my knowledge has never been successful as a deterrent. Plus, we're talking about a basic human biological need/instinct (sex), it's not surprising to see that override whatever evil, bullshit laws a group of people try to enforce.

I don't think they're interested in the deterrent side of things - just the punishment.

 

[nynt9]

Ignorant people hating on Islam. The stoning thing isn't in any part of the Quran.

Oh you're right - 24:2 only prescribes 100 lashes to adulterers. Not stoning. That's totally ok.

That being said, there are hadiths that say the original verses contained stoning, and many hadiths prescribe stoning.

 

[B.O.O.M]

As a Sri Lankan..this breaks my heart and makes me angry to no end ..this isn't something new either. Poor people who go abroad to countries like Saudi Arabia have suffered a great deal over the years and it doesn't seem to stop any time soon. If my government had a spine they would stop anyone from going to Saudi but nope. Let's send our ignorant, desperate people to this barbaric country and fingers crossed hope for the best.


Btw I wouldn't be too quick to even trust the admission of adultery claim. Foreign workers, especially women, don't get a fair shake at these situations. Wouldn't surprise me if she admitted under coercion to do so.

Fuck these barbarians and fuck my weak spineless government..FUCK

 

[Kolx]

Lovely "country". But they buy a lot of weapons from the west (UK's #1 customer in that regard) so they can carry on. And remember that Assad and Iran are bad, because reasons.

Wait a while though, if Russia and Iran prevail in Syria, SA will find themselves at a severe disadvantage in the future with newly powerful enemies right on their doorstep. Revolution will follow.

Iran have the same stoning punishment.

 

[Mechanized]

It is absolutely fucking insane how this still happens in 2015. When will their people revolt over this shit? Who in their right mind would be like... "Oh she cheated, lets hurl huge rocks at the head of this woman we don't know until we cave her skull in. But bag up the head, we don't wanna see that shit, because it would humanize her". Fuck sakes.

 

[FiggyCal]

But it is in respected Hadith collections. Which, as recollections of the life of the Prophet, are authoritative parts of Islamic doctrine for most Muslims. And apart from that, the Qur'an mandates 100 lashes as punishment for adultery, which is certainly not a position that's compatible with human rights either. I quoted sources earlier in this thread. It seems to me that you are not sufficiently educated on this issue yourself.

Who gets to decide what's a betrayal to human rights? Is ruining people's lives for drug use incompatible with human rights also? Because we do that on an industrial scale. What's so special about this particular law or mandate from that particular part of the world?

 

[ElTorro]

Who gets to decide what's a betrayal to human rights? Is ruining people's lives for drug use incompatible with human rights also? Because we do that on an industrial scale. What's so special about this particular law or mandate from that particular part of the world?

Dat Whataboutism.

But ok, let's debate whether stoning people to death for fucking each other is acceptable moral behavior.

 

[King_Moc]

Who gets to decide what's a betrayal to human rights? Is ruining people's lives for drug use incompatible with human rights also? Because we do that on an industrial scale. What's so special about this particular law or mandate from that particular part of the world?

"Someone else does bad stuff too, so can we please just ignore this? Please?"

 

[pgtl_10]

The problem is not just limited to Saudi Arabia.

That Pew search seems to ask if people want sharia then stoning. I wonder how many would have said yes to stoning without the preceding question.

 

[gutter_trash]

stupid West should boycott Saudi Arabia already

 

[ElTorro]

That Pew search seems to ask if people want sharia then stoning. I wonder how many would have said yes to stoning without the preceding question.

The question wouldn't make sense outside of a context that involves Sharia. The vast majority of these people very likely supports stoning only because they've been made to believe that they have to live according to Sharia law. Which is why its a fundamentally religious problem. These are likely decent people who've been made to believe barbaric things because of religion.