Whole region needs a clean slate. How else do you suggest fixing issues that consistently come up every few years. It won't get any better.
Saudi Arabia sentences woman convicted of adultery to death by stoning
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Whole region needs a clean slate. How else do you suggest fixing issues that consistently come up every few years. It won't get any better.
Seeing this one has to wonder why the same country heads the human rights panel at the UN.
Saudi Arabia To Head UN Human-Rights Panel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO58NPRCBgw
Saudi Arabia To Head UN Human-Rights Panel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO58NPRCBgw
That's not how the real world works, generations come and go, and time fixes everything. Change is happening a lot faster than before, the current monarch is slow, but his war crazed son will shake things up, I'm not sure if it's for good, but things are definitely changing.
Thank you for your answer.
Are you/were a Muslim?
Most of the traditions you know of Islam came from the Hadith. How to Pray, Being generous to guests, Eids. Ramadhan, etc all came from the Hadith in detail. taking Hadith away means taking a most of Islamic theology away.
May our country and family be safe.
It's not as bad as you think.
Monocle
Member
This sickening torture could only be approved by vicious barbarians. I could vomit.
GameAddict411
Member
Some people here don't understand that even the people who disagree with this very cruel judgment/conviction can't do or say anything. If they do, they will be stoned to death next to the victim because they opposed Al sharia law which mean they are apostates. It's fucked up, but in the Middle East(where sharia is the law) there is no such thing as individuality. All are conformists, and here where the clash with the western cultures occurs. It's also related to why people who insult islam or mohammed are attacked constantly even in the west.
Wow, I didn't know this. I looked it up, and here's more from Wikipedia:
"The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda. 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia.[1] The others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt and Lebanon."
I'm not asking for a scorched-earth revolution of Islam, as that would unreasonable/unrealistic.
I was hasty and immature in saying we need dispense of all the hadiths, but I am firm in my belief that Sharia needs to reworked with independent reasoning and innovations; the blind following of ancient Muslims and their conduct/customs in all matters of life cannot be acceptable.
I am Muslim, raised as a Hanafi, but now a non-denominational.
How would you enforce this practice?
I personally don't want to enforce anything. It's something that liberal Muslims have to advocate in their own countries through activism. I will heroically retweet any information they might tweet in the process from the safety and irrelevance of my office. And I'll express support for giving these people a voice in the West, especially when they cannot speak freely in their own countries.
There is nothing good in Wahhabism that you could not have without it. Which is true for any religion, as far as I am concerned.
Wolf Akela
Member
The image is GROSS. What happens after death is confirmed? Do they bury right there or pull the body then bury somewhere else?
It will take ages to accomplish because you'd need the presence of Saudi Arabia in any sort of reform for there to be any legitimacy in those changes. They are viewed as the Gate Keepers of Islam, simply due to being Arab like the Prophet and early Muslims, and by virtue of having almost of the holiest sites within their borders.
Even then, if miraculously the Kingdom agrees and pushes for reform, it will take even longer for parts of the Muslim world to change, because of how entrenched the ancient Islamic customs are in some Muslim dominated societies.
Here's the thing, you're falling into the trap of what the great Imams told of, of being like Jews and Christians choosing what to follow and rejecting of what we don't like.
That "trap" is why those other religions aren't currently stoning people for crimes.
That trap is the only thing that makes (these) religions and modern society at all compatible.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
And such crimes they are.. Having your husband mad at you to the point he accuses you of adultery.
Oh please all versions are equally as barbaric, you can probably make a case for sufism but even that has it's fucked up kinks.
Christianity and Judaism in the West is compatible with modern society due to public apathy by most of its worshipers. The same applies to Muslims who integrate well within Western society and keep their religion to themselves.
You only have to look in places outside the West, like Africa to see horrid shit done in the name of Christianity, and Israel for Jewish terrorists burning down Churches and Mosques.
Hexa
Member
You're done because you posted something completely and utterly nonsensical and then got called out on the absurdity of it?
Wouldn't this be like Christians degrading Jesus to "just a dude"?
I'm not sure there is much difference between choosing what to believe or disregard and apathy in this case.
That's not the case at all. It was the French revolution the change everything.
You either accept the teachings or you don't. There are no middle compromise.
No. To Christians—at least to the vast majority of Christians after the first council of Nicaea—Jesus is literally god. Muhammad is only a prophet and a messenger. He is more like a Pope, although that analogy is less than perfect. He has a direct connection to god, and everything he said and did is correct and exemplary.
I had no idea it was done to this extent. Fucking evil.
No.
Jesus Christ was a divine figure; Mohammad is literally just a human, as there isn't a shred of divinity assigned to him.
Mohammed should be commended by Muslims for spreading Islam and Allah's revelations, defending the early Muslims communities from the Pagan onslaught, and uniting the tribes of Arabia, but that's it. Instead, Muslims who idolize the Prophet have turned him into the face of Islam itself.
I don't see how the difference really matters.
Which is not what tought in Islam. Heck, it's in the Quran, not the Hadiths.
He was human.
Thankfully, an increasingly secular modern society has been reducing religion's control over the millennia. In other words, it's simply because those religions were forced to evolve from the times of their writings in the countries that it dominated. And it sure took Christianity a hell of a long time to get to the point we see it today (and tell me that in the USA's current climate that Christianity still isn't a big problem).
DarkJediKnight
Member
WTF! Looks like an IKEA instruction!
Can't believe this is still permissible. And she's a foreign worker too.
I was referring to how Christians see him, as a divine entity.
I'm talking about the modern state of religion in the West, as in right now.
Revolutions like that of the French was certainly crucial in a historical context, as it laid the foundation for the current level of secularism and general apathy with regards to religion in the West.
the fact that I personally know people who think this is A-OK makes me fucking sick
So you're fine with stoning as punishment. Then by all means, continue!
But Muhammad does have some divinity assigned to him. Seeing as God personally chose him to spread the good word, defined him as the greatest prophet, etc.
How about all those other Muslims that do want progressive change in the country. Have we assessed their views on the subject? I feel like you're just asserting that it's necessary for them to view him in a certain light -- when it may not be.
I reckon that this process would be even harder in Islam. The scriptures of Christianity are an utter and unintelligible mess. As a consequence, everybody can read almost anything into them. The scriptures of Islam on the other hand are much more concise and precise. They are also much more normative when it comes to how society should be organized and governed. It's just harder to interpret them into hyper-vague irrelevance with pseudo-intellectual theological gibberish.
Religious apathy did not come out of a vacuum. The French revolution had to happen in order for the current apathy to exist.
Ponopo, I do not approve of stoning. But I understand the defense of it, I was raised in an environment which believed in it.
They aren't. This is a common misunderstanding, but SA is a member of the council, and members get round robin opportunities to propose new expert consultants to the council. It's just SAs turn. I don't think they should be on the council in the first place
There's a reason for that, the GCC countries are some of the most ass backwards countries in the world with some of the most ass backwards leaders and people. To make things worse, they're rich and they have influence in the Muslim world, but they use their influence to promote outright evil shit and they support some of the worst human beings in this world currently.
GAF doesn't dislike the GCC for shits and giggles, the GCC has earned their shitty reputation.
It is when it has to do with human rights. You know humans transcends any country so yes its anybody business
Great philosophers throughout the XVIII century laid the ground ideological work for the French revolution to occur, and the French revolution didn't the (Christian) world upside down by itself, although it accelerated things. It was a process (still is), which I think really started with Guttenberg's (re-)invention of print. Why the Islamic world was not impacted by print in the same way, I don't know.
Ah OK.
I imagine that there will be more "Arab Spring" -type events occurring throughout parts of the Muslim world due to increasing sectarian conflict and in response to radicalization in general.
Who knows, maybe one them might be successful one day and lead to an actual revolution.
But you said yourself, you accept the teachings or you don't. Are you saying you don't think the teachings prescribe stoning? Or do you personally not accept the teachings.
C'mon. "Arab Spring" was a failure. Look at Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt. It brought nothing but people wanting to enforce Sharia law on what once, secular countries.
It's the Muslim dilemma, you have to accept the teachings wholesomely. Otherwise, you're not a Muslim.
Yeah, it certainly comes with its challenges. I think at the moment we can at least start with rejecting the apocryphal Hadith. Tons of sectarian strife and other weird shit usually accustomed to the Qur'an comes from these added writings that can't be verified (much like most of the Bible). Quranism should be encouraged and pushed. Then after that happens, we can hone and focus that skepticism on the Qur'an itself. It's going to be incremental, but I do believe that education and knowledge will eventually win out, but it may take a dozen or more generations.
It was a failure.
The hope is that these type of events lead to an actual revolution someday.
Actually, it turned out relatively decent for Tunisia, but it's just the first step in a long road to Islamic reform.
Robofish
Member
Barbaric bastards! I saw a video once of a stoning for the same reason and it's just so gruesome.
I felt like shit after watching that. All those people throwing and filming with their phones..
It's just so fucking disgusting. And nobody helping or stopping them. I felt so sorry for her.
I felt like shit after watching that. All those people throwing and filming with their phones..
It's just so fucking disgusting. And nobody helping or stopping them. I felt so sorry for her.
Ingueferroque
Banned
That would kill the innocent and adulterers too, you know.
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