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Saudi Arabia sentences woman convicted of adultery to death by stoning
- Thread starter nynt9
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I'm not saying it is. But I just see people jumping at the chance to call others barbarians or such-and-such values are incompatible with our values or whatever. I think the outrage is inconsistent. We don't see the same outrage for the US's human rights violations -- if we even call it that, nor do we call ourselves savages, barbarians, etc. It's unnecessary isn't it?
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
I watched a movie on Netflix that pretty much explained this. Almost 99.9% of the time, the women is innocent and is only accused of adultery due to the husbands affair with another women and he wants out the marriage. Since a man's word is higher than a women, he will be believed 99.9% of the time without question and this is the outcome. I cried the entire time.. Because it's so cruel and just... Ugh..
OriginofHysteria
Banned
Geez. The rock can't be big enough to kill you in one throw? So you HAVE to suffer through it??
And you're denied a final meal if it's deemed that it will delay the stoning? So basically they can just deny them a meal for the sake of it and claim it would just delay stoning.
Wtf
what the flying fuck am I even reading
Usually, he's the accuser.
Discarding the Hadiths and stating fresh would be a good start.
May start civil wars across the Muslim world, but I think that's overdue.
You're right we don't want to offend people stoning others by calling them barbaric. That would be unfair
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
And herein lies the problem. It's not so much about the stoning (as cruel a capital punishment as it might be) as it is that women are considered half-humans. And when somebody is a semi-human, it's ok for them to be effectively slaves to the "proper" humans. Now, where have we seen this.. Oh, wait - it's common throughout human history!
The western law system doesn't prevent people from being evil and/or corrupted. The Sharia law system itself is evil and corrupted.
Um, yeah we do. There are MANY people in the western world who are very critical of the way we treat drug addicts and the use of the death penalty. You're way of the right track here.
I don't know about others, but I am outraged by human-rights violations of my country too. My country (Germany) likes to view itself as a nation that follows an anti-war policy. For instance, we are currently struggling to decide wether we should send four unarmed military jets for reconnaissance purposes to Syria. At the same time, we are one of the largest exporters of military weaponry in the world, and among our customers is Saudi Arabia. While I recognize the logic of realpolitik, I am appalled by that.
But even if somebody would be able to demonstrate hypocrisies on my side—which is probably easy, because everybody is a hypocrite about something—it would not change the fact that stoning people is a barbaric act. What you are proposing here follows a confused logic: instead of not criticizing others because of our own hypocrisy, we should criticize ourselves and others equally. And we should support reformers in foreign countries. After all, true liberals should not believe that borders change how despicable human-rights violations are. Conversely, your logic can only lead to the suppression of criticism and a lack of support for foreign reformers.
Whataboutism just makes no sense.
It's not just discarding the Hadiths. You're going to throw away major Islamic theology by the 4 major imams, which is nigh impossible.
Clearly you only have a selective reading of the threads here because there is a lot of anger towards the actions of western governments and establishments in here. But what you're doing is simply derailing this thread in order to not address the issue being discussed right here.
If you have issues with other topics, take them to those threads. "What about X tho?" is just derailing.
I agree, but that view is considered heretical by the majority. I would like to see and support movements in that direction, though, because it is one of the ways towards reform that does not need to rely on exegetic mind gymnastics.
I hope the US and everyone you love gets killed infront of you, and that your home is permanently demolished. I hope your loved ones are scattered around the goble as refugees and live very miserable lives.
That is basically what you just said to me as a Saudi citizen.
Think before you post scumbag.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
And still one of our most important allies, I swear this regime could perform a nazi scale genocide and we'd still be sucking their oily cocks
Is there any hope of some sort of opposition within the people of Saudi Arabia revolting against these fasiscts anytime soon?
Is there any hope of some sort of opposition within the people of Saudi Arabia revolting against these fasiscts anytime soon?
Hey Fawaz, that guy is an idiot. But please tell us, what doe think about hududs and stoning?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Bit overboard, dont you think? I mean, its unacceptable that a country still uses stoning as a punishment for something like adultery . I dont think anyone would mind if that ideology of punishment went away.
It must be done.
These Imams have immortalized the life and actions of the Prophet, along with those of his early followers through these hadiths.
Muslims needs to jettison these ancient interpretations and put Mohammad where he belongs in the Islamic hierarchy: a mere dude who god deemed worthy of revelations; there was nothing divine about him, but these Hadiths have elevated his status to something beyond human. Ironic because he was never meant to be worshiped....
I've been embroiled in so many arguments with local mosques and Muslims about the need to lessen the importance of the Hadiths and the Mohammad in general, it's fucking exhausting lol
No need to change the Quran, but modern set of scholars need to be get on with creating new interpretations. Better yet, leave the middle-man out and not have hadiths at all, but then that would lead to countries making up their own Islamic rules, and that's probably even more terrifying.
Kinda wish we had modern legit Caliphate.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Baffling that they keep finding barbaric assholes for this. Firing squads had to do the whole firing blanks thing so each soldier made to participate could imagine their bullet to have been a blank to avoid guilt. Says a lot about the mentality if they have a bunch of people willingly contributing to another person's death.
Yooo man, no need for that shit. His post wasn't helping/thoughtful but neither is yours.
Phat Michael
Banned
This forum is ridiculously anti GCC countries man, it's absolutely disgusting. No one cares about it at all. Post anything about UAE, Qatar or Saudi and you can get away with it here.
entremet
Member
I think many people have trouble separating a governing power, which makes and enforces the laws, and the rank file citizen, who are mostly good people.
I'm a US citizen and I think the US government does some vile stuff, the drug war, institutional racism, the constant wars, but I can separate that from my fellow citizens.
For all those folks claiming that the West (hypocrites, the lot of them, due to their support of countries like SA) should bomb the fuck out of SA and similar states, that's a really bad idea.
This will only further entrench Sharia in Muslim countries, perhaps even make them worse, as they will see the need to defend themselves and their religious laws from Western "imperialism" and etc.
Any reform will have to come from within Muslim dominated countries; we got a taste of that with the Arab Spring, which predictably got fucked up due to internal conflicts.
Outsiders can't force revolution when it comes to religious oriented societies...
This will only further entrench Sharia in Muslim countries, perhaps even make them worse, as they will see the need to defend themselves and their religious laws from Western "imperialism" and etc.
Any reform will have to come from within Muslim dominated countries; we got a taste of that with the Arab Spring, which predictably got fucked up due to internal conflicts.
Outsiders can't force revolution when it comes to religious oriented societies...
They're not going through with it, I'm Saudi and I could write multiple book explaining the very delicate and frail eggshell that is holding my country together, these sentences are carried out by Judges that exclusively follow Sharia Law, but they never go through with it. The problem here lies in one thing, the woman admitted to adultery, even the Sheiks (The judges) persistently advise you against doing that, they repeatedly ask you to repent and hope that Allah listens to you, but they can't keep someone from confessing and admitting to their sin, and so to keep their "integrity" they have to follow the law they claim to follow and sentence her to death. But it's all theatrics, they know they can't go through with it, and they won't. I really wish I could write something a lot more detailed but my English is still a work-in-progress and I'd need to better at it to explain myself better.
And you dare to claim that you are any better than ISIS.
Islam is not just a belief of a supreme being. But also the teachings of his messenger. Heck, it's the reason why the criticizing of Jews and Christians narrative in Islamic thought was because the Jews and Christians "choose what to follow and what not to follow".
I know you mean well, I'm Saudi too brother. But please stop moving goal posts. Can you admit that stoning and hududs are barbaric and needs to be removed from Sharia law all together?
If you don't answer, I understand. We were raised into not criticizing our religion unless we'd be labeled as apostates.
I am an atheist.
I'm not suggesting that we criticize every other country when we want to criticize one of them. I'm just alarmed about what I see as people wanting to see a certain group of people as something more dangerous and less civilized than regular people. That's a pretty sweeping generalization when we have our own flaws and we do not need to consider ourselves savages, barbarians, uncivilized, etc to call those flaws out. I would hate for someone to think that I'm against reformers in Saudi Arabia.
Someone else also posted that there were people critical of the west in this thread. Which is, in the first place, not what I was suggesting the thread needed. But secondly, the "criticism" seems to revolve around the fact that we are involved with these "barbarians" in the first place.
If a post that calls for the destruction of an entire people doesn't deserve to be called out, what does?
Joel Was Right
Member
Because he wasn't married. The married individual gets the death sentence. Non-married couples get lashes.
CenturionKei
Banned
We choose not to follow orders like stoning whores, killing homosexuals, and other attocities from the old testament.
Islamic countries are stuck in the medieval ages. I never hear reports of Christians or Jews doing this kind of relegious nonsense
Jelly Rajah
Banned
I'm not even Muslim...
Which basically confirms Islamic thought on Jews & Christians. You can't just pick and choose what you like and don't like in Islam.
In which your answers has nothing to do with my question.
Here's my question again, can you at least admit that stoning and hududs are barbaric and needs to be removed from Sharia law all together?
Eh? Homosexuals are targeted and even killed by Christians throughout Africa. Even in places like Russia. You've got Jewish terrorists burning down Churches and Mosques as well...
tearsintherain
Member
I wonder if stuff like this makes workers from poorer countries rethink working in the Middle East. It won't happen quickly but if stuff like this keeps getting worse, and oil prices stay depressed, will countries like Saudi Arabia or Dubai be able to function without cheap foreign workers?
There's no veracity with regards to his teaching though, nearly everything he's done or said is from second-third-fourth-hand accounts, decades after his final revelations (which were thankfully written down by his followers and complied years later to form the Quran).
A long form of telephone-game was used by scholars to form the basis of Islamic laws...
The entire process was susceptible to fraud, political agendas, sectarian biases, tribal influences and even straight-up mistranslations.
Islamic laws need to reworked from the ground up, without overwhelming influence of the Prophet and other early generation Muslims.
Phat Michael
Banned
Dubai isn't a country. Dubai doesn't have any oil. What does this article have to do with a city in the UAE anyway?
So do you propose to take out Hadith all together?
Yeah, it's only the princes who attend those stonings and gleefully hurl things at people until they die.
How does wanting to drop leaflets on Saudi Arabia make me as bad as radical jihadists?
Your question is irrelevant to what I said. I thought I made it clear in my original post, calling sharia law "theatrics" should probably get the message across. And you can't just remove something you do not like from Sharia Law, you either take it or leave it, you don't get to pick. Not with Islam.
I'm done here.
Islam certainly needs, as a first step, to get rid of its obsession with Muhammad and acknowledge that guy was just a guy and nothing more. The problem is that the Qur'an specifically mandates that everything the Prophet said and did is an authoritative example for all Muslims. And the punishment for noncompliance is—like always—eternal hell fire.
Yes.
Hadiths perpetuate this whole concept of taqlid , imitating the lives of early Muslims, which I do not agree with because it expects Muslims from outside the ME to conform to Arab lifestyles that were the norm during the formation of Islamic laws.
Arab lifestyles were heavily tribal, and I suspect those societal views played a large role in those Imams forming Islamic laws centuries ago.
The arrogance of those scholars, to forbid further innovations/interpretations because they assumed that they had perfected Islamic law, is astounding and the Muslim World is suffering as a result.
Islam, which was once relatively progressive when Ijtihad (independent reasoning) was flourishing, has stagnated for centuries now.
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