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[Ah Beng]

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[radioheadrule83]

I basically understand what both sides are saying here.

An uninformed vote is dangerous. Someone might vote British National Party in the UK, totally unawares of the racial hatred allegations levelled at the party.. I'm sure there is a US equivilent to this scenario. Someone who has more leftist/socialist views on labour rights and social justice could unwittingly vote for someone who will do them harm, if they don't fully understand their candidates. So I don't think saying "if you don't know or aren't sure, then don't vote" is dangerous at all. Hell, it might make people curious enough to think about it a little more. As for not voting at all: not voting at all makes all parties concerned lose a potential voter. It is a political statement of discontent in itself.

I imagine Sean Penn is worried however, that statmements like these will give people an excuse to give into apathy, and not vote out of being a lazy fatty when they know they could and should. Which sucks. People died to give those of us who live in a democracy our right to vote. Can we really be justifiably disappointed and angry if we never approach a MP/senator/candidate, or a party policy forum... let alone not even bother to look into voting?

I think everyone should consider their vote, but it is their freedom to choose not to visit the ballot box.

 

[Azih]

While Penn went off the deep end, he has a point that since Team America just took the funny jab at not voting because you're not informed and didn't try to get across the more difficult message of 'READ A NEWSPAPER MORONS... REGULARLY'. The movie would just reinforce the stupid "I don't vote and I don't think there's anything wrong with that" mentality.

As for Penn's biases, why he never SAID that he wanted them to vote democrat, and if it's one thing that we've learned in the Bush administration it's that no matter how heavily you IMPLY something your ass is covered as long as you don't directly say it.

And even if you cross the line, as long as you show up on talk shows regularly enough and repeat "I never said that, I never said that, I never said that", your ass is still covered.

 

[Boogie]

But they are perhaps FAR more educated on these issues that you are!

That's the whole point!

:lol.

I repeat: :lol

If there's sarcasm there, I'm sorry for missing it.

I may not be the absolute pinnacle of human knowledge and wisdom, but I'm sure as hell more knowledgeable than these preachy Hollywood stars. (At least in regards to international affairs, which is often their main emphasis in opposing Bush, as far as I can tell).

There aren't enough :lol's in the world.

 

[radioheadrule83]

It's not even the film that took the jab though is it? At voting I mean... it took a jab at Penn and pals, but I don't think it specifically says anything about voting...

that's just Matt and Trey in their interviews.

 

[Dan]

Penn isn't saying vote democrat. The memo just doesn't say it. I think it's pretty funny for the right to crow on about "But he's sayng by extension to vote democrat!" when, if it was the other way around, you'd say it was perfectly legitimate because nothing was explicitly said and what people intimate from what is said is up to them.

Yes, just because I can read between the lines I'm automatically on the "right." Grow up. Some of us aren't black-and-white idiots whose worlds revolve around pushing a certain agenda. The fact that that's inconceivable to you speaks volumes.

I genuinely believe that if a non voter read up on the issues and decided to vote Bush, Penn wouldn't have a problem. Hell, if you're going to bitch, bitch that the people are too stupid to bother learning about politics and just vote democrat because Penn's voting democrat.

Nowhere in that memo does he say that the ignorant should become informed. All he says is that the ignorant should vote, and they should vote to stop "disembowelment, mutilation, exploitation, and death of innocent people throughout the world." Shit, Penn flatout says that "No one's ignorance, including a couple of hip cross-dressers, is an excuse." Sorry, he's not saying that he wishes people became educated. He's just not saying that. He's saying, vote no matter what, and specifically for the candidate who isn't eager to use violence and war to resolve things. He may believe otherwise, but he absolutely does not indicate that in this memo.

I think he is saying that from what he has seen on the ground in Iraq if people were to research the objective truth of the situation they would be against the war. He has been to iraq and that is his opinion. Same if a guy has studied the iraq situation and says that if people look into it they would find that the need for war there was absolutely the correct course of action. woah, what a douche that person would be! for having an opinion that one course of action is correct based on research. :rolleyes

Read the above. In that memo Penn never onces says that people should become educated. He says they should vote no matter how ignorant.

 

[Mega Man's Electric Sheep]

Ok first, I'm about as left as they come, but Sean Penn is a bit much for me, and he is clearly saying that people should vote out Bush for humanitarian reasons. It is ludicrous to say that if you think he is saying that, you are on the right.

Also, he does seem mad at them for not telling people to educate themselves, in this line: "encouraging that there's "no shame in not voting" "if you don't know what you're talking about" (Mr. Stone) without mentioning the shame of not knowing what your talking about, and encouraging people to know."

But to follow up with the line: "Not so well, to encourage irresponsibility that will ultimately lead to the disembowelment, mutilation, exploitation, and death of innocent people throughout the world. The vote matters to them." is an obvious knock against Bush, and any liberal who says "he didn't explicitly say it" better never complain about anything this administration does, since they don't explicitly say a lot of things. Read that line again. Where in there does it say an informed person could vote for Bush in Sean Penn's world?

These celebrities bug me. They claim their message is "Get out and vote!" when their message always is "Get out and vote AGAINST BUSH!" It is fine to hold that opinion, but they are hiding behind a wholesome everybody needs to vote message. Just come out and state your opinion. Do explicitly say it.

 

[Dan]

Also, he does seem mad at them for not telling people to educate themselves, in this line: "encouraging that there's "no shame in not voting" "if you don't know what you're talking about" (Mr. Stone) without mentioning the shame of not knowing what your talking about, and encouraging people to know."

Penn complains that Matt Stone doesn't tell people to go educate themselves, but Penn doesn't go there and say it himself either. So I still don't see any evidence that Penn actually cares whether people are informed or not, just as long as they're doing what they can to get Bush out.

And yeah, I think that's part of what really irks me about celebrities pushing a political agenda. They're never direct, they're always trying to come off as sounding objective in some common sense way, but they have a distinct agenda hidden in there, and they're just rarely upfront about it. They try and have their cake and eat it too, and that just doesn't work at all when applied to anything of a political nature.

 

[FightyF]

:lol.

I repeat: :lol

If there's sarcasm there, I'm sorry for missing it.

I may not be the absolute pinnacle of human knowledge and wisdom, but I'm sure as hell more knowledgeable than these preachy Hollywood stars. (At least in regards to international affairs, which is often their main emphasis in opposing Bush, as far as I can tell).

There aren't enough :lol's in the world.

"At least until..."...there's always a catch/disclaimer, is there? The point still stands.

Have you visited Iraq, like Rain (from Our Lady Peace) and his wife Chantel Kraviezuk? This couple was against the sanctions put on them, and they took the time to educate themselves (ie. visiting the place) before doing so. Jennifer Anniston and Brad Pitt have in the past visited Israel/Palestine, and they are vocal on that situation. These aren't people who just hold political views based on their upbringing or religious beliefs. I can't speak for all of them, but it's evident that MANY of them educate themselves on the matters before speaking about them.