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[Beerman462]

Now you are just victim blaming

Seems everyone's a victim these days. The guard's a victim of assault and his own stupidity. The woman for all we know is a victim of poverty, which led to petty theft. The man that assaulted the guard is victim of circumstance.

The true victims are the kids. Everyone else gets no sympathy.

 

[GRIP]

He looked like he was having a nervous breakdown at the end. Life isn't so fun when guys stop you from trying to attack a woman is it old sport?

huh?

 

[Enzom21]

Now you are just victim blaming




Maybe I missed it but I never really saw the guard hit the woman. Will re-watch though.

11 seconds.

 

[Mesousa]

huh?

Dude got up a full head of steam to chase her down when she rounded the corner. He knew exactly what he was going to do.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Seems everyone's a victim these days. The guard's a victim of assault and his own stupidity. The woman for all we know is a victim of poverty, which led to petty theft. The man that assaulted the guard is victim of circumstance.

The true victims are the kids. Everyone else gets no sympathy.

You can't sympathize with the guy that got assaulted trying to stop a robbery, because he is an idiot who went beyond the scope of what is job required of him. Ok, I guess you can feel that way, but in my opinion you are being overly judgmental/critical of a person who was trying to stop someone in the wrong.

 

[boiled goose]

The security guard was endangering the baby... if u cant handle the situation peacefully .. let it go and call the cops.

 

[Mesousa]

You can't sympathize with the guy that got assaulted trying to stop a robbery, because he is an idiot who went beyond the scope of what is job required of him. Ok, I guess you can feel that way, but in my opinion you are being overly judgmental/critical of a person who was trying to stop someone in the wrong.

He could have easily called the cops or followed from a safe distance. Dude gets no sympathy trying to assault a woman in front of her kid.

 

[Beerman462]

You can't sympathize with the guy that got assaulted trying to stop a robbery, because he is an idiot who went beyond the scope of what is job required of him. Ok, I guess you can feel that way, but in my opinion you are being overly judgmental/critical of a person who was trying to stop someone in the wrong.

He went to far when he chased her down. She wasn't giving up without a fight so what was his plan at that point?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The security guard was endangering the baby... if u cant handle the situation peacefully .. let it go and call the cops.

As opposed the child's mother who put her in the situation in the first place?

This video is an interesting case study of personal biases. I suppose everyone sees what they want to see.

 

[Two Words]

If I steal something small from your store, are you allowed to hit me? Shoot me? grab me? Where exactly does it end? What if what I take is only worth a dollar?

No I think theft of any kind NEVER justifies escalation to physical assault. Take a photo, send it to the police, your job (as private security) is over.

Grab? Yes. I do not see any moral issue with non-violently restraining a thief at all.

 

[Tapiozona]

I love how brazen that stupid woman is. Most shop lifters would have dropped the product at that point. Not this piece of work. She was going to steal that bag hell or high water, even if it meant putting her child in the middle of it.

No sympathy for her. Nice job security guard; fuck entitled thieves who just don't give a shit like this pair. Hopefully Karma will work its magic on this trash.

 

[Shamrock7r]

He could have easily called the cops or followed from a safe distance. Dude gets no sympathy trying to assault a woman in front of her kid.

I never saw him assault anyone. Tried to grab the stolen property back, defended himself once when assaulted as was pointed out by enzyme, and got assaulted by another group of people.

He went to far when he chased her down. She wasn't giving up without a fight so what was his plan at that point?

It looks like he ran in front of them and stopped them again. Who knows what his plan was at that point. You can argue all you want about how stupid he was to put himself in a position of endangering his life to stop a petty theft, as was running outside of the store towards them. My argument is that is the only level from which you can argue that what he did is wrong.

 

[Enzom21]

As opposed the child's mother who put her in the situation in the first place?

This video is an interesting case study of personal biases. I suppose everyone sees what they want to see.

Or there are people that see he made the situation worse by continuing to pursue her instead of calling the police.

I never saw him assault anyone. Tried to grab the stolen property back, defended himself once when assaulted as was pointed out by enzyme, and got assaulted by another group of people.

Really?

 

[Mesousa]

I never saw him assault anyone. Tried to grab the stolen property back, defended himself once when assaulted as was pointed out by enzyme, and got assaulted by another group of people.

He clearly hits a lady in the face around 10 seconds. He was also running full speed behind them surely looking to finish what was started before running into men, where he quickly came to reality, and lost whatever hardness he had.

 

[Two Words]

The security guard was endangering the baby... if u cant handle the situation peacefully .. let it go and call the cops.

Your takeaway from that video was the person responsible for putting that child in a dangerous situation, which involved escaping while shoplifting, was the security guard?

 

[Shamrock7r]

He clearly hits a lady in the face around 10 seconds. He was also running full speed behind them surely looking to finish what was started before running into men, where he quickly came to reality, and lost whatever hardness he had.

Yes he hit the lady, after she struck him in the face. When he left the store, he ran in front of them and blocked their path.

Really?

lol sorry. It's getting late.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I wasn't aware grabbing a purse that has stolen items in it was "assault". I did see two shoplifters assault him though as he tried to retrieve the stolen merchandise. Whether his job allowed him to do that or encouraged him to do that, who knows. I have worked overnight security in a grocery store that told me to do whatever it took short of flat out hurting someone to stop people from shoplifting (mostly beer runs) and I run the electronics department in a retail store now that encourages me to do virtually nothing if someone shoplifts other than observe every detail I can. Does the shop owner here want him to go HAM on shoplifters or not? Who knows. But damn, I am seeing responses on the Internet like the guy was beating a shoplifter or something. He had a hold of her purse.

Hopefully if they choose to take that route, police can find out who the pussies were who jumped him based off the video.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Or there are people that see he made the situation worse by continuing to pursue her instead of calling the police.

I've already stated pursuing her was probably a poor decision to make. But you and I both know that's not entirely what the discussion in this thread is about. It's part of it but it's not the whole thing.

Some people see the woman as an almost faultless victim and this security guard as a symbol of authority acting wrongly. A lot of people dislike even the most lowly symbols of authority and that's where we get these arguments.

 

[Mesousa]

Yes he hit the lady, after she struck him in the face. When he left the store, he ran in front of them and blocked their path.



lol sorry

He also hit one in the face ~10 seconds.

 

[Beerman462]

He clearly hits a lady in the face around 10 seconds. He was also running full speed behind them surely looking to finish what was started before running into men, where he quickly came to reality, and lost whatever hardness he had.

I actually felt bad for him at that point. I honestly expected him to get it worse than he did. Glad it didn't go beyond a couple hits.

 

[Shamrock7r]

He also hit one in the face ~10 seconds.

After she already assaulted him.

 

[Enzom21]

I wasn't aware grabbing a purse that has stolen items in it was "assault". I did see two shoplifters assault him though as he tried to retrieve the stolen merchandise. Whether his job allowed him to do that or encouraged him to do that, who knows. I have worked overnight security in a grocery store that told me to do whatever it took short of flat out hurting someone to stop people from shoplifting (mostly beer runs) and I run the electronics department in a retail store now that encourages me to do virtually nothing if someone shoplifts other than observe every detail I can. Does the shop owner here want him to go HAM on shoplifters or not? Who knows. But damn, I am seeing responses on the Internet like the guy was beating a shoplifter or something. He had a hold of her purse.

Hopefully if they choose to take that route, police can find out who the pussies were who jumped him based off the video.

He punched the woman after she slapped him. He didn't just grab her purse. He should not have pursued he after she broke away. That's why we have police.

I've already stated pursuing her was probably a poor decision to make. But you and I both know that's not entirely what the discussion in this thread is about. It's part of it but it's not the whole thing.

Some people see the woman as an almost faultless victim and this security guard as a symbol of authority acting wrongly.

I don't think anyone sees her as faultless, what they see is a security guard being a bit overzealous and doing things he didn't need to do.

A lot of people dislike even the most lowly symbols of authority and that's where we get these arguments.

That's the problem here, he isn't a symbol of authority and more than likely hasn't any sort of training on how to deal with situations like this.

 

[Mesousa]

I actually felt bad for him at that point. I honestly expected him to get it worse than he did. Glad it didn't go beyond a couple hits.

He got off really lucky. I've gotten worse for stepping on shoes.

After she already assaulted him.

And at which point he should have called the police. Not tried to play Rambo on a mother in front of her child.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I'd like to also stress that if the use of children alters the way security or others act when it comes to shoplifters then they have fulfilled the purpose the shoplifters want. It only encourages the behavior and puts children in that situation more often rather than less often if they can do it successfully.

 

[RockTurtle]

so let me see if i get this straight:

woman breaks the law, steals stuff while having her children with her and tries to walk out

security guard tries to keep her from leaving, take back the stuff stolen.

thief and her friend wail on guard, he defense himself by NOT hitting back, but blocking their attacks from what i see in video.

thief and friend also attack bystander who tried to calm the situation down.

they run around the corner and security guard runs to her for some reason which is debatable (get back the merchandise, hold her until police get there etc..)

and bunch of dudes punch the security guard cause he dared to hold back a thief who had babies with her. nevermind the fact she decided to do this stuff while her children were there.

and the security guard is at fault? everything she did is handwaived away cause she had kids with her?

how do we know what she stole wasn't expensive? maybe the shop he was guarding belongs to his family and every single item is important for their livelyhood. maybe she didn't steal anything at all. but the reactions in gaf are puzzling.

 

[Camp Lo]

I don't get why he didn't just call the cops. I'll never understand why any security guard tries to take down someone. They're just supposed to be the cops' eyeball witness on things.

 

[Beerman462]

I'd like to also stress that if the use of children alters the way security or others act when it comes to shoplifters then they have fulfilled the purpose the shoplifters want. It only encourages the behavior and puts children in that situation more often rather than less often if they can do it successfully.

If the word gets out it will be mass hysteria. Today its a purse tomorrow its a TV next thing you know people will rob banks with just a kid strapped to their chest.

 

[Shamrock7r]

And at which point he should have called the police. Not tried to play Rambo on a mother in front of her child.

He could have, but he was certainly within his rights to hit back and defend himself. I guess you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree, as we are about to go in circles.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

If the word gets out it will be mass hysteria. Today its a purse tomorrow its a TV next thing you know people will rob banks with just a kid strapped to their chest.

I'm sorry you have to resort to such wild tangents to get some kind of misguided point across but nothing I said is so outlandish. You really think petty criminals and con artists don't exploit their children in their schemes for exactly that reason?

 

[Mesousa]

He could have, but he was certainly within his rights to hit back and defend himself. I guess you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree, as we are about to go in circles.

And the group that knocked some common sense into him were well within their right to stop a grown man from chasing down a woman in front of her daughter

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

He punched the woman after she slapped him. He didn't just grab her purse. He should not have pursued he after she broke away. That's why we have police.

LOL. In your opinion anyway. Even if you want to call his reaction to her slapping in the face him "hitting her", using the word punch is a huge stretch. Looked to me like he simply tried to push her away. Probably because, as you say, she was slapping him in the face. Which she did again later. And her accomplice did as well. Which he stood there and took from a distance.

Maybe he is told to "pursue" until cops get there. When I worked security I was told to pursue unless I was put in danger. What you call "pursue" looked to me like he was just trying to slow them down so those police you mentioned could arrive. I have done the same thing with people trying to leave a store with a grocery cart full of beer. And it works. By the time they get to their car and are dealing with me slowing them down the cops are either there or they wise up and leave without the stolen stuff. Which is fine by me. Had these women just given back the shit they stole my guess is nothing happens.

Anyway I have said my peace on it, not worth bickering about. I hope whatever the women stole was worth the shame and endangerment to the poor kids.

 

[Beerman462]

I'm sorry you have to resort to such wild tangents to get some kind of misguided point across but nothing I said is so outlandish. You really think petty criminal and con artists don't exploit their children in their schemes for exactly that reason?

I'm sorry you don't like your own tactic. Your post assumes mothers will use this as some sort of training video. Yes people involve their children in fucked up shit , because they're fucked up. We aren't setting a precedent here. We are discussing a single incident.

 

[Enzom21]

LOL. In your opinion anyway. Even if you want to call his reaction to her slapping in the face him "hitting her", using the word punch is a huge stretch. Looked to me like he simply tried to push her away. Probably because, as you say, she was slapping him in the face. Which she did again later. And her accomplice did as well. Which he stood there and took from a distance.

Maybe he is told to "pursue" until cops get there. What you call "pursue" looked to me like he was just trying to slow them down so those police you mentioned could arrive.'

No it was definitely a punch... but LOL to you too.

Anyway I have said my peace on it, not worth bickering about. I hope whatever the women stole was worth the shame and endangerment to the poor kids.

 

[GaimeGuy]

The person who was in the most wrong was the mother. First of all, resisting security. Secondly, child endangerment. And of course theft.

A very shameful display of how not to be a parent.

Private security has no authority

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I'm sorry you don't like your own tactic. Your post assumes mothers will use this as some sort of training video. Yes people involve their children in fucked up shit , because they're fucked up. We aren't setting a precedent here. We are discussing a single incident.

I never said it's a training video that's another wild tangent. I'm finding fault in this notion that because her child was with her she should have been treated any differently. Treated differently how? Should she have been allowed to just walk out?

That kind of thinking sets precedent.

Private security has no authority

Are you sure?

 

[Shamrock7r]

And the group that knocked some common sense into him were well within their right to stop a grown man from chasing down a woman in front of her daughter

No they weren't, not according to the law, and not according to common sense. What a stupid thing to say, seriously.

 

[Dead Man]

I never said it's a training video that's another wild tangent. I'm finding fault in this notion that because her child was with her she should have been treated any differently. Treated differently how? Should she have been allowed to just walk out?

That kind of thinking sets precedent.



Are you sure?

Damage or harm to uninvolved people is always part of the calculation of reasonable force.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I never said it's a training video that's another wild tangent. I'm finding fault in this notion that because her child was with her she should have been treated any differently. Treated differently how? Should she have been allowed to just walk out?

That kind of thinking sets precedent.



Are you sure?

Not to mention that the idea that the guy was putting the kid in some extreme danger by holding onto a purse is just silly as hell.

And it does set a precedent if you just let them walk out. That's why places like Walmart get shoplifted from so much. Thieves know the company is so scared of lawsuits that they will literally let you walk off scott free with merchandise if the police haven't arrived to assist.

 

[riotous]

Private security has no authority

Depends on what you mean by "authority," and depends on where the incident occurs.

I do think the security guys actions in this case were clearly criminal. What he was doing was obviously contributing to putting a child in danger. You can't just yank at a mother who has a child in her arms. Your rights as a citizen to intervene in crime don't include obvious negligent acts. Maybe a brief attempt to physically intervene is warranted but once you notice the kid you let go and you call the police.

 

[Two Words]

If the word gets out it will be mass hysteria. Today its a purse tomorrow its a TV next thing you know people will rob banks with just a kid strapped to their chest.

People do use their kids as a tool for theft....

 

[Beerman462]

I never said it's a training video that's another wild tangent. I'm finding fault in this notion that because her child was with her she should have been treated any differently. Treated differently how? Should she have been allowed to just walk out?

That kind of thinking sets precedent.



Are you sure?

You said

I'd like to also stress that if the use of children alters the way security or others act when it comes to shoplifters then they have fulfilled the purpose the shoplifters want. It only encourages the behavior and puts children in that situation more often rather than less often if they can do it successfully.

So are you saying it encourages this woman specifically or women in general?

If woman in general, then how would this information get out exactly?

People do use their kids as a tool for theft....

Gasp...what now.
You know what Jeff Daniels said in Speed? Shoot the hostage.

 

[Camp Lo]

People do use their kids as a tool for theft....

Yeah, it's not really setting precedence as it's pretty common.

 

[LQX]

so let me see if i get this straight:

woman breaks the law, steals stuff while having her children with her and tries to walk out

security guard tries to keep her from leaving, take back the stuff stolen.

thief and her friend wail on guard, he defense himself by NOT hitting back, but blocking their attacks from what i see in video.

thief and friend also attack bystander who tried to calm the situation down.

they run around the corner and security guard runs to her for some reason which is debatable (get back the merchandise, hold her until police get there etc..)

and bunch of dudes punch the security guard cause he dared to hold back a thief who had babies with her. nevermind the fact she decided to do this stuff while her children were there.

and the security guard is at fault? everything she did is handwaived away cause she had kids with her?

how do we know what she stole wasn't expensive? maybe the shop he was guarding belongs to his family and every single item is important for their livelyhood. maybe she didn't steal anything at all. but the reactions in gaf are puzzling.

I don't think that part is clear cut at all. They might have thought she was being assaulted by him rather than a fleeing thief.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Damage or harm to uninvolved people is always part of the calculation of reasonable force.

But that brings up the question of how would she be treated differently because she is with a child? Should the security completely ignore the shoplifter or should they at least initially attempt to detain him or her.

 

[Camp Lo]

I don't think that part is clear cut at all. They might have thought she was being assaulted by him rather than a fleeing thief.

Yeah, the guy had no kind of uniform on and the incident was pretty much over until he ran around the corner.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

You said


So are you saying it encourages this woman specifically or women in general?

If woman in general, then how would this information get out exactly?

It's fairly clear what I said. It encourages those who commit theft to use their children as tools to aid their efforts. How you read into that as all women will now use their children to steal is beyond me.

 

[riotous]

But that brings up the question of how would she be treated differently because she is with a child? Should the security completely ignore the shoplifter or should they at least initially attempt to detain him or her.

At the moment it's obviously escalating to endangering the child, how is it not his duty to end the physical confrontation?

Obviously it is also a criminal act for her to put her child in such danger; and she is negligent even before it escalates.. but once it escalates to the yanking and possible young child falling to the cement you can't just keep up an "arrest" like that. At least that would be my not too educated opinion of what a general citizen or "security guard" arrest should entail. I'm pretty sure the law is down to the jurisdiction on things like these and then you have the potential for a civil suit no matter what the criminal law says.

 

[Beerman462]

But that brings up the question of how would she be treated differently because she is with a child? Should the security completely ignore the shoplifter or should they at least initially attempt to detain him or her.

Stop thief give that back. No? OK I'm calling the cops.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

At the moment it's obviously escalating to endangering the child, how is it not his duty to end the physical confrontation?

Obviously it is also a criminal act for her to put her child in such danger; and she is negligent even before it escalates.. but once it escalates to the yanking and possible young child falling to the cement you can't just keep up an "arrest" like that.

I think you'll find no disagreement with me there. There was a point where the guy should have called it a day.

Stop thief give that back? No OK I'm calling the cops.

This is what you feel is right but I'm interested in what the law says and permits.

 

[Mesousa]

No they weren't, not according to the law, and not according to common sense. What a stupid thing to say, seriously.

What common sense exactly? The common sense of not stopping some random angry guy dressed like a fluorescent soaked 21st century minstrel show character chase a mother with her daughter down the street unchecked?

If that isn't common sense, then common sense isn't so common lol.