Security attempts to stop shoplifters, gets assaulted by passerby.

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Bam Bam Baklava said:
This is what you feel is right but I'm interested in what the law says and permits.
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I think you could probably get a decent survey of at least what people are told at retail across different places. Most places do have some sort of citizen's arrest law. I know in Washington State in the US I was always told that you did have the right to essentially arrest and detain through at least some physical contact people you witnessed shoplifting. Managers could chase people down and potentially tackle them just by being told of a suspect. Brazen attitude lol.

A quick google suggested to me you'd really have to do some research to figure out exactly how far you can take it.

California is often a good example, and they allow anyone to detain someone until the Police arrives for up to (on a downward scale) and including "infractions." Allegedly according to wiki you could get detained by someone legally for a seat belt violation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest

It's the kind of thing you are often best off actually looking for statutes and laws and trying to digest them. Like figuring out what kind of knife you can legally have in your car for utility purposes without committing a felony lol.
 
riotous said:
I think you could probably get a decent survey of at least what people are told at retail across different places. Most places do have some sort of citizen's arrest law. I know in Washington State in the US I was always told that you did have the right to essentially arrest and detain through at least some physical contact people you witnessed shoplifting. Managers could chase people down and potentially tackle them just by being told of a suspect. Brazen attitude lol.

A quick google suggested to me you'd really have to do some research to figure out exactly how far you can take it.

California is often a good example, and they allow anyone to detain someone until the Police arrives for up to (on a downward scale) and including "infractions." Allegedly according to wiki you could get detained by someone legally for a seat belt violation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest

It's the kind of thing you are often best off actually looking for statutes and laws and trying to digest them. Like figuring out what kind of knife you can legally have in your car for utility purposes without committing a felony lol.
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I'm not going down that rabbit hole and that's why most retailers only allow security to observe and report.
 
If a security guard ever tries to take something that is mine from my hands I'm going to put them under citizens arrest. But then again I'm not going to be stealing shit.

Seems like everybody in the video is acting dumb in some way.
 
Beerman462 said:
I'm not going down that rabbit hole and that's why most retailers only allow security to observe and report.
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Yeah policy is more often than not to play it safe I'm sure. I haven't worked retail since the 90's, good chance that's all changed. Either way you've got civil lawsuits that you aren't protected from very often. Nobody goes to jail when the shoplifter gets messed up but the store might get sued, as well as the individual.

I've known a lot of bouncers though and they generally say rhey can do quite a bit without any trouble. Just no actual punching or kicking or hard shoving. Grabbing and wrestling a bit fairly violently is within the law.
 
The mother (if she is the mother to begin with) is a horrible person.

Also, it seems security guard is the most conflicting job, to do it right you have to not do it.
 
The security guard would be in less trouble if he shot the mother and said he was "standing his ground".

(not that I suggest he should, or that it is a good idea)
 
A security guard really doesn't have any more authority than any other citizen in these situations. They have no power to detain anybody in these situations, unless a crime has been committed ( you have to had seen the crime happen though) and they're making a citizen's arrest, which anybody else can legally do too. So I suppose he could've detained them legally, but whether you can use force, or how much is a big grey area, and for that reason it's probably better to let these things go. I can't blame him though, he was just trying to do the right thing, I feel awful for him in fact. Can't blame the other guys for stepping to the guard either, they probably thought they were protecting an innocent woman from a potential aggressor.

The only thing I can think of that the guy might be guilty of, is not wearing a uniform and and an I.D. to identify himself as security. But he might be one of those undercover shoppers who is supposed to sniff out shoplifters while incognito, and if that's the case then he probably doesn't need to be in uniform.
 
You dont go around tackling or even grabbing folks that shoplift. Sometimes during a struggle thier head hits the pavement, or thier neck breaks, or they have asthma and they die. Is it really worth potentially killing a person over?its just an item.
 
obviously the woman shouldn't be shoplifting, especially with kids there, teaching them bad habits...

now, apparently, in NY it's his legal right to start the engagement and recover stolen items by grabbing the purse, but yeah, that was a bad idea to do that to a woman that's holding a child.

then chasing down someone on the street ... yeah ... no.

is that Flatbush Ave?

i wonder how the random group of dudes felt. they saw a woman getting assaulted, jump in and then maybe later find out she was shoplifting. gonna guess they probably said "still shouldn't be fighting a woman" or something like that.
 
out0v0rder said:
You dont go around tackling or even grabbing folks that shoplift. Sometimes during a struggle thier head hits the pavement, or thier neck breaks, or they have asthma and they die. Is it really worth potentially killing a person over?its just an item.
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What an absurd jump in logic. I understand the argument legally to avoid expensive lawsuits. It's an absurd argument morally.
 
Where's the mall security cop when you need him:

Darien_Long_Mall_cop.jpg
 
out0v0rder said:
You dont go around tackling or even grabbing folks that shoplift. Sometimes during a struggle thier head hits the pavement, or thier neck breaks, or they have asthma and they die. Is it really worth potentially killing a person over?its just an item.
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How about, if you want to avoid a potential overreaction, don't shoplift in the first place? I always have a hard time sympathizing with the original guilty party in these situations. "I was being an asshole but then he overreacted" is a difficult argument.

What is your solution?
 
Tom_Cody said:
How about, if you want to avoid a potential overreaction, don't shoplift in the first place? I always have a hard time sympathizing with the original guilty party in these situations. "I was being an asshole but then he overreacted" is a difficult argument.

What is your solution?
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Every adult in this situation is disgusting...but the solution is to call the police and hope they handle it.
 
Tom_Cody said:
That's not a solution. They would have been gone at that point. That's just letting them go with no consequence.
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What kind of item did she steal? Is it worth it getting in a tussle over some $10-20 item, especially when a young child is involved? Call the cops and if they don't help then write off the item as a tax loss.

And maybe have your security personnel wear appropriate attire saying SECURITY.
 
CrankyJay said:
What kind of item did she steal? Is it worth it getting in a tussle over some $10-20 item, especially when a young child is involved? Call the cops and if they don't help then write off the item as a tax loss.

And maybe have your security personnel wear appropriate attire saying SECURITY.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't have much more to add. I side with the guy in the video and find little fault with his behavior given the situation he was presented with.
 
Proper LP protocol says to never put the person in danger because the amount they're stealing is never worth the possible lawsuit if they get hurt on your property. Mall security is different. LP INSIDE the store isn't allowed to touch shop lifters just confront them and ask for them to wait for security or the cops.

On a street shop like this I'm pretty sure the proper protocol is to call the cops immediately and not touch the suspect once they leave your property.
 
Who cares if the thief is a mother in front of her child? Some security are actually allowed to make arrests until police are called and may use force. The mother is already a shit role model by clearly being a thief and assaulting the guard, instead of giving back the stolen merchandise. She's not a good role model. Women are treated as equals to men, her gender doesn't make her immune to being stopped for breaking the law, especially if she has a fucking kid with her. Some people here acting like being a woman with a kid makes her immune to being stopped is seriously weird and ridiculous.
 
CrankyJay said:
Every adult in this situation is disgusting...but the solution is to call the police and hope they handle it.
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You'd really describe the guard as disgusting? Can you say his actions were unwise and unpragmatic for himself and the store? Sure. I don't see how he was acting in a disgusting manner though.
 
Something that was brought to my attention. A lot of security on the Strip and Downtown Las Vegas wear those neon green uniforms that the security had in the video. I do not know where this incident took place, but perhaps in that area, those are also security uniforms. In that case, those guys should not have hit him. Sorry, on a tablet so my grammar/spelling might be off.
 
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