IrishNinja
Member
eh...it'd bother me if it wasn't par for the course
as a hip hop fan, these lists are like the grammy's
as a hip hop fan, these lists are like the grammy's
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Sega Genesis/MegaDrive Appreciation Thread: Alien Storm > Golden Axe
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
The sad truth is the person who probably was given that writing assignment probably wasn't even alive when the Genesis / Mega Drive was on shelves. Of any major media format, people who are supposed to write about video games and be the custodians of the culture have absolutely the worst sense of the medium's history and impact on culture in the grand scheme of things. It's pretty much where film was in the 1930-40's, and it'll probably take another 30-40 years for there to be any serious historical / archival look at the medium.
Bar81
Member
But why would you expect any quality writing from IGN to begin with?
It seems it was more than just a Megadrive inside a PC, and both had access to the others resources. It wasn't really exploited though.
http://segaretro.org/Teradrive
It would have been very interesting if they made the design modular, in the form of an ISA board that you could buy independently. It would have been like the 3D card revolution 10 years earlier! But as a complete computer it was doomed to fail.
Interestingly, The concept was sort of tried again with the Saturn: the Nvidia NV1 shared some similarities in its architecture and its 3D rendering so that ports from the Saturn could be done easily. But low sales of the consoles and the quirks of quad rendering that no one liked doomed it again. Plus it was too late and faced a fierce competition of 3D cards.
The average joe, probably regards the writers at IGN highly, hence their number of readers, and I find it sad that such a huge part of gaming history, that I enjoy so much, doesnt get exposed more to these people. But at least it doesnt increase prices on retro stuff even more, which is good I guess.
blast processed
Member
That's a lot of money for something they are only publishing.
I'll wait for a physical edition of the Wolfenstein 3D homebrew instead.
Slight off-topic, but since this is the biggest and most active Sega thread, I'll put this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfU3EU-KM1Y
A really gorgeous HQ 60fps video of the Alien Syndrome port for the Sharp X68000 computer, on real hardware. Those of you who understand Japanese should appreciate this even more.
I'm actually surprised there was never a MD version of Alien Syndrome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfU3EU-KM1Y
A really gorgeous HQ 60fps video of the Alien Syndrome port for the Sharp X68000 computer, on real hardware. Those of you who understand Japanese should appreciate this even more.
I'm actually surprised there was never a MD version of Alien Syndrome.
A Black Falcon
Member
$40 cart only or $55 complete? Seems about average for a homebrew release. Sure Piko didn't program it, but I imagine they probably had to pay something for the rights, and producing the carts and boxes is not cheap.
You'll be waiting a while, Bethesda is probably a lot harder to deal with than 3D Realms...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPdrJtrCi3U There are a few, but not many. As for Duke v. Zero Tolerance, they're both not that great, really. Not sure which is less bad.
Sadly Sega games rarely ever chart. The only ones I usually see on lists are:
-Sonic the Hedgehog
-Streets of Rage 2
-Daytona USA
-Virtua Fighter 2
-Nights into Dreams
-Panzer Dragoon Saga
-Shenmue
IrishNinja
Member
for what it's worth, i wasn't just knocking IGN here - this is a constant through most major site lists.
related:
yeah, i'd add Revenge of Shinobi and a very few others, but this is pretty-spot on from what i've seen
this was really cool, thanks! and yeah, idve loved that but we barely even got a proper Harrier on the system, looking back. was so glad when i found Super Fantasy Zone, no idea why it never came over here.
also on that note: i remember digging the Sega AGES version of Alien Syndrome found on that PS2 collection disc
FYI he's Korean, not Japanese.
My bad.
Super Fantasy Zone is awesome. Europe got it, but not on Genesis here.
I couldn't agree more with this sentiment, especially as it concerns Sega's contributions to the medium. History is written by the victors and all that, but the lack of credit afforded Sega really is absurd. I hope you're right that attitudes will eventually sway.
IrishNinja
Member
they have to - honestly, we gotta reach a point where write-ups about the greatness of Super Metroid/Mario World etc become about as stale as a Beatles piece for music. Sega are gonna be seen as the crazy innovators that they were - not even getting that far puts you about the musical equivalent of a punk fan who only listened to London Calling.
but to me, the first step is to fight the notion that gaming is disposable entertainment.
half of gaming side thinks you're hardcore if you play more than a few big AAA titles a year. me? if you're not digging through the crates (on systems you had in the day, and ones you didn't) to find gems where you can, you're softcore. it's one of the few kind've attitudes i see in comics, music, movies etc that i love seeing take root here: nobody gives a shit how much you loved yoshi's island as a teen, what have you played in that gen since?
but to me, the first step is to fight the notion that gaming is disposable entertainment.
half of gaming side thinks you're hardcore if you play more than a few big AAA titles a year. me? if you're not digging through the crates (on systems you had in the day, and ones you didn't) to find gems where you can, you're softcore. it's one of the few kind've attitudes i see in comics, music, movies etc that i love seeing take root here: nobody gives a shit how much you loved yoshi's island as a teen, what have you played in that gen since?
Co-sign.
EDIT: I'd think the article writer would have to at least be in their mid to late 20s, so they should have been around for those systems to be on the shelf. Its just the common thought these days. Just like you most likely wont see anything Turbographx / CD on the list.
blast processed
Member
No, I would not count the add ons. Genesis has a big enough library to warrant it's own top ten. I like these list because I feel the Genesis is one of the only consoles where everyones top 10 is almost completely different. Unlike a Nintendo console where most of the same games appear.
Definitely agree with all this. The cult of the new in the gaming industry, is a big part of the problem.
I am down for this!
Cool. Lets do a list then. I'll give you to Monday to give people a chance to vote.
My list:
1. Sonic 2
2. Super Hang-On
3. Revenge of Shinobi
4. Golden Axe
5. Streets of Rage
6. Comix Zone
7. Sonic 1
8. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
9. Altered Beast
10. Mighty Morpin Power Ranger: The Movie
Honorable mentions to Castle of Illusion and Gunstar Heroes though.
My list:
1. Sonic 2
2. Super Hang-On
3. Revenge of Shinobi
4. Golden Axe
5. Streets of Rage
6. Comix Zone
7. Sonic 1
8. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
9. Altered Beast
10. Mighty Morpin Power Ranger: The Movie
Honorable mentions to Castle of Illusion and Gunstar Heroes though.
D.Lo
Member
Even this very thread is pretty US-centric (though less than many). So what chance would PCE/Turbografx have? Realistically it's almost a Japan-only machine.
Here's my take.
Sega's US/UK success was built on sports games, Sonic and Mortal Kombat. Obviously sports games and MK are completely irrelevant now, and Sonic games were good games but iterative and therefore got samey/fatigued (four released on a single console - the SNES equivalent isn't Mario/Yoshi - it's the DKC series, and you don't see DKC series on best lists much either).
So that's the 'memory' base from which to be nostalgic about the Genesis. The best selling games (so the ones that reached the cultural consciousness) were not actually the best games on the system.
SNES on the other hand - Mario World, Yoshi's Island, Zelda 3, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy III/IV - the best games were actually among the best selling games as well. They also generally sold more than any Sega games, a larger percentage of the SNES's game sales were of a few top titles (usually first party, with the exception of Street Fighter II and RPGs).
So far more people actually played the best Nintendo games. Not anywhere near as people played Shinobi/Musha/Shining Force/Phantasy Star/Alien Soldier as played Chrono Trigger/Zelda 3/Super Metroid. If they were playing MD/Genesis more likely they were playing Mortal Kombat, Joe Montana or FIFA.
Secondly, as I mentioned previously, Sega's forte is and always was arcade and arcade style games. And just like how Star Wars doesn't win best picture, Streets of Rage 2 doesn't make best-of lists.
I love the MD as a shooter and arcade console myself.
Edit: My top 10? Maybe something like this:
Zero Wing
Vampire Killer
Rocket Knight
Musha
Shinobi III
Streets of Rage 2
Flashback
Sonic 1
Thunder Force 4
Battle Mania 2
sixteen-bit
Member
I like the idea of a top 10 vote. Should it be a separate thread or do you want to get opinions specifically from the regulars in this thread?
blast processed
Member
I like the idea of a separate thread. I can put one together when I get home from work.
Edit: are we even allowed to make top ten threads?
Edit: are we even allowed to make top ten threads?
Shadow Hog
Member
Y'know, sure, why not. Came up with 55 Genesis games I recall playing in one form or another (forgetting Mean Bean Machine accidentally and intentionally counting Flink as a Genesis game since the Mega Drive version is basically identical to the Sega CD one, barring redbook audio); currently trying to prioritize them using a tool that's comparing each game one-by-one. I'm honestly not sure how this is going to come out.
blast processed
Member
Genesis turns 27 on October 29. So I don't see why a top 10 poll on the main board would be a problem.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Oh gods a top 10 is hard... Let me try:
1. Shining Force II
2. Phantasy Star IV
3. Ristar
4. Shinobi III
5. Beyond Oasis
6. Castlevania: Bloodlines
7. Shining Force
8. Gunstar Heroes
9. Vectorman
10. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
1. Shining Force II
2. Phantasy Star IV
3. Ristar
4. Shinobi III
5. Beyond Oasis
6. Castlevania: Bloodlines
7. Shining Force
8. Gunstar Heroes
9. Vectorman
10. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
IrishNinja
Member
Strider
ToeJam & Earl
Rolling Thunder 2
Moonwalker
Shadow Dancer
Sonic 3 & Knuckles (kinda cheating)
Phantasy Star IV
Streets of Rage 2
Contra Hard Corps
MUSHA
excellent point!
ToeJam & Earl
Rolling Thunder 2
Moonwalker
Shadow Dancer
Sonic 3 & Knuckles (kinda cheating)
Phantasy Star IV
Streets of Rage 2
Contra Hard Corps
MUSHA
excellent point!
blast processed
Member
I'll put one together between today and tomorrow. I'll have the voting go until the 29th, then tally everything up and update the OP with totals. Anyone have any thoughts? Good idea bad idea? Never done a mass poll before but i would be interested in seeing different lists because it is such a diverse library that has always been looked down upon.
Shadow Hog
Member
Finally went through that list of games I've played through to some degree. Forgot to include The Lion King on top of Mean Bean Machine, but ignoring that...
Mean Bean Machine would rank fairly high, The Lion King would rank fairly low.
Pretty sure I underranked some games like Thunder Force IV, not because it's a bad game, but because it's not exactly my genre. Still, if I had to arbitrarily distill this list to just ten entries, trying to trim series down to one entry each:
Although I might sub in Castlevania Bloodlines for Shining depending on my mood.
And yes, I flipped Aladdin and Toy Story. I don't care what the poll says, Aladdin was the better game.
- Sonic 3 & Knuckles
- Sonic 2
- Streets of Rage 2
- Toy Story
- Sonic the Hedgehog
- Aladdin
- Ristar
- Toe Jam & Earl
- Monster World IV
- Animaniacs
- Earthworm Jim
- Rolo to the Rescue
- Quackshot
- Earthworm Jim 2
- Pulseman
- Vectorman
- Wonder Boy in Monster World
- Vectorman 2
- Shinobi III
- Shining in the Darkness
- Streets of Rage 3
- Castlevania Bloodlines
- Landstalker
- Shining Force
- Garfield: Caught in the Act
- Shanghai II
- Cool Spot
- Light Crusader
- Ms. Pac-Man
- Mega Turrican
- McDonald's Treasure Land Adventure
- Magic School Bus: Space Exploration Game
- Contra Hard Corps
- Streets of Rage
- Comix Zone
- Sonic 3D
- Misadventures of Flink
- Asterix and the Great Rescue
- Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster's Hidden Treasure
- High Seas Havoc
- Flicky
- Strider
- Dynamite Headdy
- Goofy's Hysterical History Tour
- Columns III
- Adventures of Batman & Robin
- Bonanza Bros.
- Mega Man: Wily Wars
- Michael Jackson's Moonwalker
- Thunder Force IV
- Sonic Spinball
- Kid Chameleon
- X-Men
- Super Hang-On
- Zero Wing
Mean Bean Machine would rank fairly high, The Lion King would rank fairly low.
Pretty sure I underranked some games like Thunder Force IV, not because it's a bad game, but because it's not exactly my genre. Still, if I had to arbitrarily distill this list to just ten entries, trying to trim series down to one entry each:
- Sonic 3 & Knuckles
- Streets of Rage 2
- Aladdin
- Toy Story
- Toe Jam & Earl
- Animaniacs
- Earthworm Jim
- Rolo to the Rescue
- Shinobi III
- Shining in the Darkness
Although I might sub in Castlevania Bloodlines for Shining depending on my mood.
And yes, I flipped Aladdin and Toy Story. I don't care what the poll says, Aladdin was the better game.
Piston Hyundai
Member
I think Toy Story would be just too God damn hard to include in my own, but that's a pretty solid list. Props for including Animaniacs.
The good thing about keeping the voting in this thread, is that the voters will generally have a broader knowledge of the library, and thus making the finished list superior (imo). Anyways:
1. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
2. Gunstar Heroes
3. Rocket Knight Adventure
4. Castlevania: Bloodlines
5. Pulseman
6. Contra: Hard Corps
7. Streets of Rage 2
8. Shinobi III
9. Rolo to the Rescue
10. Herzog Zwei
1. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
2. Gunstar Heroes
3. Rocket Knight Adventure
4. Castlevania: Bloodlines
5. Pulseman
6. Contra: Hard Corps
7. Streets of Rage 2
8. Shinobi III
9. Rolo to the Rescue
10. Herzog Zwei
Shadow Hog
Member
Hard as a rock, but I had enough free time as a kid to get scarily good at it. (I also knew the methods of enabling level skip and infinite health due to a strategy guide I owned, which kinda helped me practice.)
And yeah, Animaniacs almost never gets mentioned to my knowledge, but it's a really solid puzzle platformer. Much better than the SNES game, from what little I've tried of that one.
X-Men is terrible (although I loved it as a kid.)
X-Men 2: Clone Wars still holds up, though.
No Hyperstone Heist? Where's Gunstar Heroes?
Shadow Hog
Member
Unfortunately, don't own the latter. Wouldn't mind it, though, I've heard good things.
Respectively: Don't own/never tried, completely forgot about it somehow (and yet I included Dynamite Headdy, which I don't even like that much?). I'd probably put Gunstar up relatively high - maybe swap out Rolo on my Top 10, which is as high as it is largely because of sentimental reasons over quality ones.
IrishNinja
Member
X-Men 2 is fantastic. damn, maybe i slept on Rolo to the Rescue?
Shadow Hog
Member
That or I played too much of it as a kid. Either one, really.
Rolo is really good. It looks like a standard cutesy plattformer, but it is pretty challenging, has decent level design, and a very cool system were you rescue other animals which you then can use to gain new abilities. The game is also created a bit like Super Mario World in that many levels have several exits, and to find all of those, you often need to rescue and play as certain other animals. I like it alot!
Nice, this will be fun!
Btw, this is an example of my reasoning behind why I think the list might have been better, if voting was kept in this thread:
Shadow Hog
Member
Yeah, it's a meaty adventure with a fair number of levels hidden away by these little puzzle piece pickups in the stages. You get a puzzle piece for the next level anyway by freeing all the animals, but there are additional ones scattered around which will open up more stages for you to play. Although I don't believe any of the paths these additional levels open up help you reach the final boss any quicker, they frequently have bonus rounds for grabbing extra lives, and one particular branch early on lets you turn one of the more common, annoying enemies, tiny brown porcupines that take multiple stomps to kill, into allies you can recruit for clearing the stages.
It's brutally difficult at spots, though. Some of the stages off the beaten path are sadistic, requiring blind-ish jumps off of and onto slippery platforms (which mess up your momentum both on-ground and mid-air) while avoiding these bear-trap enemies that cannot be killed but which hop around at high velocities and at unpredictable trajectories. Also, the music is a little bit... ear-piercing, to be honest.
I've never played James Pond, the other series developer Vectordean is known for, but somehow I doubt it's as good.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I already agreed with you before even seeing this example but yeah, totally reinforces it. Yikes.
All dem Sonic games.
Also lol at Sonic Spinball and Flicky being the best games on Genesis.=p
Haha, I will not have people slander Sonic Spinball
It's not on my top 20 list but it wasn't as terrible as it's modern reputation makes it out to be
....right?
Edit: Joking aside I am a bit shocked at how many votes there are for Thunder Force IV over III, which I found to just be a stellar game.
It (TF3) was also the first game I ever personally bought so I might be a bit biased.
My Top Ten
1. Gunstar Heroes
2. Sonic 3 and Knuckles
3. Vectorman
4. Sonic 2
5. Rocket Knight Adventures
6. Thunder Force IV
7. TMNT: Hyperstone Heist
8. Streets of Rage 2
9. Contra Hard Corps
10. Road Rash
Edit: Crap, I'll take this to the other thread
1. Gunstar Heroes
2. Sonic 3 and Knuckles
3. Vectorman
4. Sonic 2
5. Rocket Knight Adventures
6. Thunder Force IV
7. TMNT: Hyperstone Heist
8. Streets of Rage 2
9. Contra Hard Corps
10. Road Rash
Edit: Crap, I'll take this to the other thread
Gunstarheroes
Member
Honestly, i won't have slander at either. Sonic Spinball and 3D Blast have special places in my heart.
Shadow Hog
Member
I have definitely had my share of fun wtih Spinball (particularly The Machine, I love that stage), but it's really not that good a game, hence why I ranked it so low. The physics are just all-around janky, especially when you're on foot (for what is thankfully generally only very brief periods at a time), but to some extent in the main pinball segments as well. And, well, its rock guitar instruments were questionable.
3D Blast/Flickies' Island, meanwhile, I think kind of gets a bad rap - it's a fun game, just not a terribly good Sonic game. Saturn version's much better, though, in my opinion (if only because I generally prefer its soundtrack - not that the Genesis version's a slouch, but Rusty Ruins, man). PC version's better still in some areas (It saves your progress! How did the other versions not have this? The game is too long for single sittings!), worse in others (no fog effects from the Saturn version, special stages aren't as impressive as the Saturn version's - although still better than the Genesis version's).
3D Blast/Flickies' Island, meanwhile, I think kind of gets a bad rap - it's a fun game, just not a terribly good Sonic game. Saturn version's much better, though, in my opinion (if only because I generally prefer its soundtrack - not that the Genesis version's a slouch, but Rusty Ruins, man). PC version's better still in some areas (It saves your progress! How did the other versions not have this? The game is too long for single sittings!), worse in others (no fog effects from the Saturn version, special stages aren't as impressive as the Saturn version's - although still better than the Genesis version's).