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[Joezie]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/us/politics/congress-women-military-draft.html?_r=0

On Tuesday, the Senate approved an expansive military policy bill that would for the first time require young women to register for the draft. The shift, while fiercely opposed by some conservative lawmakers and interest groups, had surprisingly broad support among Republican leaders and women in both parties.

The United States has not used the draft since 1973 during the Vietnam War. But the impact of such a shift, reflecting the evolving role of women in the armed services, would likely be profound.

Under the Senate bill passed on Tuesday, women turning 18 on or after Jan. 1, 2018, would be forced to register for Selective Service, as men must do now. Failure to register could result in the loss of various forms of federal aid, including Pell grants, a penalty that men already face. Because the policy would not apply to women who turned 18 before 2018, it would not affect current aid arrangements.

The Supreme Court ruled in 1981 that women did not have to register for the draft, noting that they should not face the same requirements as men because they did not participate on the front lines of combat. But since Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter said in December that the Pentagon would open all combat jobs to women, military officials have told Congress that women should also sign up for the draft.

While most Republican senators — including Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, and the women on the Armed Services Committee — agree with the move, it has come under fierce attack from some of Congress’s most conservative members.

“The idea that we should forcibly conscript young girls in combat to my mind makes little sense at all,” Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas and the father of two young daughters, said on the Senate floor last week.

After voting against the bill on Tuesday, Mr. Cruz said in a prepared statement: “I could not in good conscience vote to draft our daughters into the military, sending them off to war and forcing them into combat.”

Conservative groups, which threatened to target senators who voted for the policy bill, reacted with anger on Tuesday to the bill’s passage. “Allowing our daughters to be forced into combat if there is a draft is a clear example of Washington placing more value on liberal social engineering than military objectives and preparedness,” one such group, Heritage Action for America, said in a news release.

Rest at link, sorry if old. Used search function and didn't see anything.

Seemed that this was sort of heading in an opposite direction for a bit with some pushing to rid SS, but it seems that something or another has apparently shifted priorities for some.

 

[Skiptastic]

“The idea that we should forcibly conscript young girls in combat to my mind makes little sense at all,” Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas and the father of two young daughters, said on the Senate floor last week.

"But young boys? Sure, fuck 'em."

My instinct says I'm fine with this. I'm sure if the draft were evoked again, it would be a total war situation and pretty much everyone should be involved.

 

[Modest Mauser]

"The idea that we should forcibly conscript young girls in combat to my mind makes little sense at all,” Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas and the father of two young daughters, said on the Senate floor last week.

The idea that we should forcibly conscript young men makes little sense also...

If we're keeping the draft, I'm not really opposed to having women sign up as well, but it really should be abolished altogether in my view.

 

[WingM@n]

WW3 incoming...?

 

[Htown]

Sure, why not?

If we ever actually need the draft, we are in full-on "holy FUCK we are going to DIE" mode anyway, so we'd probably need as many people in combat as possible.

 

[trembli0s]

Sure, why not?

If we ever actually need the draft, we are in full-on "holy FUCK we are going to DIE" mode anyway, so we'd probably need as many people in combat as possible.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the issue is. Israel and China both have female combat units. It's just a matter of using them effectively, which might not be front-line infantry.

 

[MrChocolate]

Huh? Let's say we agree on the registration for the draft. How is this step wrong? Isn't important to get more women involved in every layer of military?

 

[Hari Seldon]

Sure, why not?

If we ever actually need the draft, we are in full-on "holy FUCK we are going to DIE" mode anyway, so we'd probably need as many people in combat as possible.

Yeah the Vietcong was about to overrun us, thank god for the draft!

 

[WaffleTaco]

Probably should register...but since I'm Transgender i cant be in the military anyway...and yet they don't know that I'm trans. What a dumb situarjon

 

[entremet]

Why is Ted Cruz calling an 18 year old, a girl? These are women. Just like 18 year boys are men.

These are legal adults.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Seems fair to me, either everyone has to do it or we get rid of it all together.

 

[everyday math]

Am I an asshole for being happy I'm way passed being 18? I hope we don't have WW3 in the next few decades. Last thing I would want is my little sister and my little brother being forced to go to war.

 

[Zophar]

It's a good bet nobody will be drafted again in this country ever again, so what's the point, really?

Drones are unpopular but the alternative is even more so.

 

[entremet]

Am I an asshole for being happy I'm way passed being 18? I hope we don't have WW3 in the next few decades. Last thing I would want is my little sister and my little brother being forced to go to war.

If shit hits the fan I think it goes all the way up to 35. Could be wrong. By 18 is only when you have to register, it's not an age limit.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

What exactly would be the punishment for one who refuses conscription, assuming it were to ever go into effect again?

 

[Autumn Wind]

Why is Ted Cruz calling an 18 year old, a girl? These are women. Just like 18 year boys are men.

These are legal adults.

The nicest way I can say this is Cruz is a bit... slow.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

What exactly would be the punishment for one who refuses conscription, assuming it were to ever go into effect again?

Prison time and financial penalties?

 

[entremet]

What exactly would be the punishment for one who refuses conscription, assuming it were to ever go into effect again?

It's a felony unless you get a federal exemption.

 

[Hari Seldon]

It's a good bet nobody will be drafted again in this country ever again, so what's the point, really?

Drones are unpopular but the alternative is even more so.

I don't see how it is a good bet. If the US continues to be the world police and get involved in wars no one wants to get involved in, a draft is going to be needed. You can't nation build with tanks and airstrikes, you need boots on the ground. The US Military already had to pull all kinds of shenanigans with stop loss and shit just to keep enough troops around for Iraq and Afghanistan. You had a surge of people signing up after 9/11, and a few years later they have to resort to fine print in contracts just to keep enough people to do the mission.

 

[Darryl M R]

Am I an asshole for being happy I'm way passed being 18? I hope we don't have WW3 in the next few decades. Last thing I would want is my little sister and my little brother being forced to go to war.

So this won't force those over 18 to have to now register as well?

 

[KDR_11k]

Population wise it's a bad idea as losing women slows the birth rate much more than losing men but let's hope this remains purely hypothetical.

Why is Ted Cruz calling an 18 year old, a girl? These are women. Just like 18 year boys are men.

These are legal adults.

Dunno, seems common to call adult women "girl" in English. In German that would be an insult.

 

[News Bot]

Why is Ted Cruz calling an 18 year old, a girl? These are women. Just like 18 year boys are men.

These are legal adults.

Who can't drink alcohol.

Conscription is fucking terrible.

 

[everyday math]

If shit hits the fan I think it goes all the way up to 35. Could be wrong. By 18 is only when you have to register, it's not an age limit.

Ah well let's hope no shit hits the fan ever happens again.

 

[The Faceless Master]

wow, of course a select few would just want to 'keep women in the kitchen' even if our very existence depended on it. SMH

 

[Nakazato]

Step towards equality.

Now to the pay issue

 

[ahoyhoy]

Am I an asshole for being happy I'm way passed being 18? I hope we don't have WW3 in the next few decades. Last thing I would want is my little sister and my little brother being forced to go to war.

If we have WW3 you'll probably be worried about you and your family surviving the war regardless of whether or not you participate.

More realistically you should be more worried about another Vietnam-scale conflict that eventually mutates into something that requires a draft.

 

[Hazmat]

It would make more sense to get rid of the draft, but if men have to do it then women should too. Pretty low on the list of gender inequality issues that ought to be tackled though.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Prison time and financial penalties?

Prison time for refusing to take up arms against another? And people are in support of this?

It's a felony unless you get a federal exemption.

Does being a strict pacifist count as an exemption?

 

[Ace 8095]

Sure, why not?

If we ever actually need the draft, we are in full-on "holy FUCK we are going to DIE" mode anyway, so we'd probably need as many people in combat as possible.

Vietnam?

Would you trust President Trump with the power of conscription?

 

[entremet]

Population wise it's a bad idea as losing women slows the birth rate much more than losing men but let's hope this remains purely hypothetical.



Dunno, seems common to call adult women "girl" in English. In German that would be an insult.

Oh I get that usage. It's very common, but Ted Cruz is evoking an image of children with that use of that language. Children don't get conscripted.

 

[News Bot]

Does being a strict pacifist count as an exemption?

You mean you don't wanna fight for your country brah? Aren't you a patriot? Land of the free! Except when needed to kill foreigners.

 

[Kusagari]

Cruz sure loves defending young/little girls.

 

[entremet]

Prison time for refusing to take up arms against another? And people are in support of this?



Does being a strict pacifist count as an exemption?

That's a conscientious objector. There may be exemptions but you may need to be cleared a la Muhammed Ali, who was not.

 

[Joezie]

Does being a strict pacifist count as an exemption?

For Selective Service no.
For the Draft? You could jot yourself down as a "conscientious objector to war" and might get worked with.

 

[Yaboosh]

Prison time for refusing to take up arms against another? And people are in support of this?



Does being a strict pacifist count as an exemption?

Look into the history of the Vietnam war.

 

[Khoryos]

Dunno, seems common to call adult women "girl" in English. In German that would be an insult.

Oh, it's pretty insulting in English too.

 

[demosthenes]

Why is Ted Cruz calling an 18 year old, a girl? These are women. Just like 18 year boys are men.

These are legal adults.

Probably because he sees both of his daughters (who I think are both below 10) and doesn't want them fighting in a possible war.

 

[InfiniteBento]

Wait can someone clarify this for me; does this mean at the turning point of 18 women will be required to submit to military drafting (even though being drafted is unlikely) from now on or....?

Pardon, military stuff blurs for me.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

You mean you don't wanna fight for your country brah? Aren't you a patriot? Land of the free! Except when needed to kill foreigners.

I probably wouldn't be considered a patriot by many, including myself. I just don't think my conscience would allow me to kill another person, whether they are invading my country or my home. I wouldn't be cool with -- what should be -- my human right of declining to participate in war without consequence.

That's a conscientious objector. There may be exemptions but you may need to be cleared a la Muhammed Ali, who was not.

I'll have to look that up. I had never really bothered to think about the consequences of being a pacifist in a place or time of conscription before.

For Selective Service no.
For the Draft? You could jot yourself down as a "conscientious objector to war" and might get worked with.

For the draft, yeah, if it were to ever activate again. I know Selective Services is different. What is getting 'worked with' though? Like they'll work with me so I don't have to fight, or they'll 'work me over' until I have no choice but to fight?

Look into the history of the Vietnam war.

I was asking for now and the future. I would have hoped we are better now than during Vietnam.

 

[Joezie]

Wait can someone clarify this for me; does this mean at the turning point of 18 women will be required to submit to military drafting (even though being drafted is unlikely) from now on or....?

Pardon, military stuff blurs for me.

If the House and Senate can come to an agreement on it yes. For now, it remains up for debate.

 

[SliceSabre]

Mr. Cruz said in a prepared statement: “I could not in good conscience vote to draft our daughters into the military, sending them off to war and forcing them into combat.”

This comment is so insanely sexist toward women and the value of men's lives it is honestly shocking.

 

[MartyStu]

Fuck off Cruz. If I am fit enough to be forced to die in stupid wars, then so are my sisters.

My life is not somehow worth less than theirs.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the issue is. Israel and China both have female combat units. It's just a matter of using them effectively, which might not be front-line infantry.

Women are already allowed in all combat roles.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ow-women-in-frontline-ground-combat-positions

 

[ApharmdX]

That's good news. The Selective Service is sexist. No reason why a person can't fight to defend this country when the need is dire, no matter their gender.

 

[Aurongel]

Probably because he sees both of his daughters (who I think are both below 10) and doesn't want them fighting in a possible war.

Children of politicians avoid the draft anyway so I don't see what his hang up is.

 

[turtle553]

“The idea that we should forcibly conscript young girls in combat to my mind makes little sense at all,” Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas and the father of two young daughters, said on the Senate floor last week.

After voting against the bill on Tuesday, Mr. Cruz said in a prepared statement: “I could not in good conscience vote to draft our daughters into the military, sending them off to war and forcing them into combat.”

He's right. The government shouldn't allow control of women's bodies. That's why he's pro-choice.

 

[QuantumZebra]

He's right. The government shouldn't allow control of women's bodies. That's why he's pro-choice.

 

[entremet]

Probably because he sees both of his daughters (who I think are both below 10) and doesn't want them fighting in a possible war.

Yeah, they won't. He's rich. Just like Vietnam, the rich won't fight. Or do non combat roles in air conditioned military base.

 

[Christopher]

Good. You want gender equality you go it.

 

[Netherscourge]

No problem with this - because we'll never have a draft again anyway.

Drafts = political suicide.