Support NeoGAF

[goodcow]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050316/D88S8V081.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - Amid the backdrop of soaring oil and gasoline prices, a sharply divided Senate on Wednesday voted to open the ecologically rich Alaska wildlife refuge to oil drilling, delivering a major energy policy win for President Bush.

The Senate, by a 51-49 vote, rejected an attempt by Democrats and GOP moderates to remove a refuge drilling provision from next year's budget, preventing opponents from using a filibuster - a tactic that has blocked repeated past attempts to open the Alaska refuge to oil companies.

The action, assuming Congress agrees on a budget, clears the way for approving drilling in the refuge later this year, drilling supporters said. The House has not included a similar provision in its budget, so the issue is still subject to negotiations later this year to resolve the difference.

The oil industry has sought for more than two decades to get access to what is believed to be billions of barrels of oil beneath the 1.5 million-acre coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in the northern eastern corner of Alaska.

Drilling supporters acknowledged after the vote that for refuge development to get final approval Congress must still pass a final budget with the Senate provision included, something Congress was unable to do last year.

Still, "this is a big step," said Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, who said he had tried for 24 years to open the refuge, but failed because Democrats blocked the effort through filibusters. The budget is immune from a filibuster, meaning drilling supporters will need only a majority - not the 60 votes required to break a filibuster - to succeed when the issue comes up for final action later this year.

Environmentalists have fought such development and argued that despite improved environmental controls a web of pipelines and drilling platforms would harm calving caribou, polar bears and millions of migratory birds that use the coastal plain.

Bush has called tapping the reserve's oil a critical part of the nation's energy security and a way to reduce America's reliance on imported oil, which account for more than half of the 20 million barrels of crude use daily.

It's "a way to get some additional reserves here at home on the books," Bush said Wednesday.

The Alaska refuge could supply as much as 1 million barrels day at peak production, drilling supporters said. But they acknowledge that even if ANWR's oil is tapped, it would have no impact on soaring oil prices and tight supplies. The first lease sales would not be issued until 2007, followed by development seven to 10 years later, Interior Secretary Gale Norton said.

"We won't see this oil for 10 years. It will have minimal impact," argued Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., a co-sponsor of the amendment that would have stripped the arctic refuge provision from the budget document. It is "foolish to say oil development and a wildlife refuge can coexist," she said.

Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., argued that more oil would be saved if Congress enacted an energy policy focusing on conservation, more efficient cars and trucks and increased reliance on renewable fuels and expanded oil development in the deep-water Gulf where there are significant reserves.

"The fact is (drilling in ANWR) is going to be destructive," said Kerry.

But drilling proponents argued that modern drilling technology can safeguard the refuge and still tap the likely - though not yet certain - 10.4 billion barrels of crude in the refuge.

The vote Wednesday contrasted with the last time the Senate took up the ANWR drilling issue two years ago. Then, an attempt to include it in the budget was defeated. But drilling supporters gained strength last November when Republicans picked up three additional seats, all senators who favored drilling in the refuge.

Opponents of drilling complained that Republicans this time were trying "an end run" by attaching the refuge provisions to the budget, a tactic that would allow the measure to pass with a majority vote.

The 19-million-acre refuge was set aside for protection by President Eisenhower in 1960, but Congress in 1980 said its 1.5 million acre coastal plain could be opened to oil development if Congress specifically authorizes it.

The House has repeatedly passed measures over the years to allow drilling in ANWR only to see the legislation stalled in the Senate. But last week, the House refused to include an ANWR provision in its budget document, although any differences between the Senate and House versions would likely be resolved in negotiations.

Drilling supporters argued that access to the refuge's oil was a matter of national security and that modern drilling technology would protect the region's wildlife.

Environmentalists contended that while new technologies have reduced the drilling footprint, ANWR's coastal plain still would contain a spider web of pipelines that would disrupt calving caribou and disturb polar bears, musk oxen and the annual influx of millions of migratory birds.

 

[Azih]

As a side effect this will widen the gap between the U.S and Canada a bit. Canada did not want this to happen as what happens to Alaska affects the ecology of the Yukon and North West Territories a lot.

 

[missAran]

Surprise! Huge oil companies with strong lobbying power win! Oil men like George W. Bush win! It's frustrating to see that oil companies continue to push their product instead of researching new energy sources.

It is truly a dark day for Alaska, America, and those who care about the environment.

 

[Escape Goat]

What would God say! Horror!

 

[NLB2]

What would God say! Horror!

Why the fuck would god give a shit? I mean, do you think god is an environmentalist? Jesus, this is as bad as someone saying god hates gays.

 

[Azih]

Why the fuck would god give a shit? I mean, do you think god is an environmentalist? Jesus, this is as bad as someone saying god hates gays.

Hell I don't know what god thinks (protip: you don't either), but if the Bible is accurate and we were appointed 'stewards' of the Earth, then God might be cheesed off at us not being very good stewards.

 

[human5892]

Why the fuck would god give a shit? I mean, do you think god is an environmentalist? Jesus, this is as bad as someone saying god hates gays.

Because He created the wildlife in the preserve and would consequently object to its endangerment?

(I don't believe in God -- I'm just trying to describe what the rationale behind this thought might be.)

Anyway, I'm not sure either side has a valid point here -- will the presence of drillers really upset the wildlife to an extreme degree? OTOH, wouldn't the government be better served in the longrun funding programs to develop other sources of energy?

 

[Escape Goat]

Why the fuck would god give a shit? I mean, do you think god is an environmentalist? Jesus, this is as bad as someone saying god hates gays.

God likes little furry things. Jesus was a hippy. And God does hate gays...sometimes.

 

[Jeffahn]

I wonder what would happen if they discovered oil beneath the White House?

...

 

[NLB2]

Because He created the wildlife in the preserve and would consequently object to its endangerment?

(I don't believe in God -- I'm just trying to describe what the rationale behind this thought might be.)

And god also gave us the ability to fuck the environment up. Besides god is, by definition, the greatest possible being. If god's the greatest possible being, he'd be like a ninja, except instead of killing things and not thinking twice about it, god wouldn't think twice about the environment getting fucked up - I mean, what's the environment to the greatest possible being? Absolutely nothing.

 

[Lucky Forward]

Hell I don't know what god thinks (protip: you don't either), but if the Bible is accurate and we were appointed 'stewards' of the Earth, then God might be cheesed off at us not being very good stewards.

I don't know where the bible mentions anything about us being 'stewards', I think that's just touchy-feely revisionism. The bible says, "Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it." This is probably the one command we've actually obeyed, and what better way to subdue the ANWR than with an oil pipeline.

 

[Azih]

And god also gave us the ability to fuck the environment up. Besides god is, by definition, the greatest possible being. If god's the greatest possible being, he'd be like a ninja, except instead of killing things and not thinking twice about it, god wouldn't think twice about the environment getting fucked up - I mean, what's the environment to the greatest possible being? Absolutely nothing.

Once again, you don't know what any hypothetical greatest possible being is thinking, seeing as you ain't one.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

so what will this do to oil prices?

 

[human5892]

so what will this do to oil prices?

Nothing, for a while -- even assuming this makes it through Congress, it could be ten years before we actually start seeing tangible results from the operation.

 

[Minotauro]

Hell I don't know what god thinks (protip: you don't either), but if the Bible is accurate and we were appointed 'stewards' of the Earth, then God might be cheesed off at us not being very good stewards.

Eh, at this point, I think us dirtying-up the living rooms of a bunch of caribou is probably the least of his worries.

 

[NLB2]

Once again, you don't know what any hypothetical greatest possible being is thinking, seeing as you ain't one.

So then we know god hates gays and loves the environment.

 

[Azih]

So then we know god hates gays and loves the environment.

Do we? Man the only time any of us will find out for sure is when we die. And if God does show up he/she/it could just as easily peer at you, say "I don't like your face" and whoops off to hell forever! I mean supreme being. Supreme Being can do whatever the heck it wants.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Azih speaks the truth i feel the same way when i play goldeneye with him.

 

[mrmyth]

I mean supreme being. Supreme Being can do whatever the heck it wants.

Not if He doesn't have a starship.

 

[Azih]

Azih speaks the truth i feel the same way when i play goldeneye with him.

I am indeed your god at Goldeneye.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I am indeed your god at Goldeneye.

I bow down to your mad bullet stopping with head and then dying skills.

 

[NLB2]

Do we? Man the only time any of us will find out for sure is when we die. And if God does show up he/she/it could just as easily peer at you, say "I don't like your face" and whoops off to hell forever! I mean supreme being. Supreme Being can do whatever the heck it wants.

Perhaps I should have added "/sarcasm". My original post was berating teh hamburglar for thinking god loves the environment, when of course its impossible to know that god loves the environment. And god can't do whatever the heck god wants. god cannot make 2+2=5 or make a square round.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

I once saw a filthy bearded man claiming he was God, take a shit on a tree. He said,"Look at this! It's come down to me shitting on trees. But hey... AT LEAST THE GAYS CAN'T MARRY!".

 

[DJ Sl4m]

It's frustrating to see that oil companies continue to push their product instead of researching new energy sources.

Oh yeah. there's a very quick solution..............

 

[NLB2]

Oh yeah. there's a very quick solution..............

A new solution will come only when its economically viable. As of now, oil's still cheaper.

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

~gives high five~ YES! I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm all for destroying the environment to lower our gasoline prices by eight cents! Rock on, George W.





.... note sarcasm..

 

[iapetus]

Suddenly it all becomes clear. If we beat Bush in the lumberjack contest, we can get his Clockwerk claws...

 

[Santo]

I can't believe three democrat senators went in favor of this pathetic bill. I'm sure they are cashing their checks from Exxon as I type this. Motherfuckers don't give a shit about the environment, just about how big their bank accounts are.

 

[moist]

Motherfuckers don't give a shit about the environment, just about how big their bank accounts are.

:lol

Because the tundra is so incredibly pristine and lord knows that part of ANWR is the last remaining speck of it.

 

[goodcow]

I can't believe three democrat senators went in favor of this pathetic bill. I'm sure they are cashing their checks from Exxon as I type this. Motherfuckers don't give a shit about the environment, just about how big their bank accounts are.

Apparently two of them were from Hawaii, and they did this in exchange for some Hawaii related act.

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

Apparently two of them were from Hawaii, and they did this in exchange for some Hawaii related act.

I say we drill for... lava in Hawaii to get back at them..

 

[whytemyke]

I've got family up there that have a cabin that is only about 30-40 miles away from ANWR. According to them, most of the stuff in the press about the beauty of the area is totally bullshit, as the area is supposedly barren and not nearly as big as everyone would have you believe.

The second thing to this is that it's gonna need to be done. OPEC announced last week something about their reserves already being met for the year, and with announcements that gas will be up to $3/gallon, any politician who didn't vote for this is going to be ostracized adn lose office if gas gets as bad as it's supposed to. We all know Americans would sooner drill in America than pay 50 bucks every week to fill up their gas tanks.

 

[ge-man]

I could careless about what Anwr looks like and what not. I'm more disappointed by our fossil fuel dependence. I like low fuel prices, but drilling in more places can only do so much. I would like to see more bills and initatives towards finding alternatives coincide with this kind of legislation. Otherwise, I see this drilling as nothing more than greed running the government.

 

[Kobun Heat]

I've got family up there that have a cabin that is only about 30-40 miles away from ANWR. According to them, most of the stuff in the press about the beauty of the area is totally bullshit, as the area is supposedly barren and not nearly as big as everyone would have you believe.

Could you please keep your "facts" and "reality" to yourself? We're trying to have a DISCUSSION here.

 

[Incognito]

Could you please keep your "facts" and "reality" to yourself? We're trying to have a DISCUSSION here.

Yeah, keep the anecdotal evidence coming, whytemyke.

 

[moist]

Well considering they are voting to only open roughly 7 percent of an area about the size of Maine and the area is all costal tundra it's not exactly like he is far off base.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Not only is he "not far off base" he is absolutely correct. It jives with everything I've ever heard about ANWR. The part they want to drill in is barren wasteland that caribou wouldn't even take a shit on. It's free money buried in the ground. Yeah, let's just leave it there for no reason.

 

[whytemyke]

Could you please keep your "facts" and "reality" to yourself? We're trying to have a DISCUSSION here.

:lol

 

[AntoneM]

it doesn't matter what the land looks like, it's that fact that the land was set aside as a national wildlife refuge. What's next, tapping yellowstone for some thermo power plants? mining in Yosemite?

 

[whytemyke]

What's next, tapping yellowstone for some thermo power plants? mining the Grand Tetons?

Uh... so you're comparing an arctic tundra to Yellowstone? Am I right? It seems to me that if you have such a problem with drilling in areas that aren't being used, you should be writing AI to do something about the middle east, venezuela, mexico, russia, georgia, etc...

 

[Kobun Heat]

it doesn't matter what the land looks like, it's that fact that the land was set aside as a national wildlife refuge. What's next, tapping yellowstone for some thermo power plants? mining in Yosemite?

The gay marriage thread called and they want their slippery slope back.

 

[AntoneM]

Uh... so you're comparing an arctic tundra to Yellowstone? Am I right? It seems to me that if you have such a problem with drilling in areas that aren't being used, you should be writing AI to do something about the middle east, venezuela, mexico, russia, georgia, etc...

you're not getting the point, it's a NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE. You know land that was set aside by our government so that is could remain in it's natural state.

 

[Kobun Heat]

you're not getting the point, it's a NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE. You know land that was set aside by our government so that is could remain in it's natural state.

Yes, but we're not deriving any benefits -- none -- from this. Maybe for the really nice places where cute animals live and people like to go on vacation. But that's not what this part of ANWR is.

Just because the government did something without thinking the consequences through doesn't mean they can't go back and fix it later.

 

[whytemyke]

Just because the government did something without thinking the consequences through doesn't mean they can't go back and fix it later.

WHAT?! You mean we should reflect on our decisions and reanalyze whether we can improve them or not? But... they might call us Flip-Floppers!

 

[AntoneM]

the point was not to derive any sort of benefit, the point was to leave sections of wilderness off limits to commercial ventures. No benefit was ever intended, I don't know where you're comming from with this benefits argument. What is so terrible about leaving sections of land alone, where no one benefits except for the plants and animals already there?

 

[Santo]

Not only is he "not far off base" he is absolutely correct. It jives with everything I've ever heard about ANWR. The part they want to drill in is barren wasteland that caribou wouldn't even take a shit on. It's free money buried in the ground. Yeah, let's just leave it there for no reason.

The 2000 acres only includes the plots for the drilling sites. It is spread like a spiderweb throughout the entire area.

 

[Kobun Heat]

What is so terrible about leaving sections of land alone, where no one benefits except for the plants and animals already there?

Because there's oil buried there that we could really use.

Your turn: what's so terrible about drilling on seven percent of it? Bear in mind that it is mostly barren wasteland with little to no life. Also bear in mind that the plants and animals that ARE there will not automatically all fall over and die.

 

[etiolate]

I don't care if it's a barren wasteland to our eyes, the question is has there been studies on what effect this would have on the eco-system there?*




*hint: i have no idea and would like to know

 

[Kobun Heat]

Apparently when they were drilling in other areas, the caribou population jumped up. Upon investigation it turns out they were using the pipes for warmth and so more of them survived the winter etc.

Oil: good for caribou

 

[AntoneM]

Because there's oil buried there that we could really use.

Your turn: what's so terrible about drilling on seven percent of it? Bear in mind that it is mostly barren wasteland with little to no life. Also bear in mind that the plants and animals that ARE there will not automatically all fall over and die.

1. you never answered my question.

2. What's terrible is that it's breaking a commitment that the US government made to keep that land all 100% of it off limits. The effect on the land and the animals cannot be known at this point, it may turn out to be devestating, it may turn out to be minimal. Most importantly, this creates a precedent for any other industry that wants to use natural resources that exist inside national wildlife refuges.