BronsonLee
Member
Gabe's really nailed the timing of a show from back in the day. 2 hours, quick and clean.
I've been rewatching ROH 2005, and man that was a magical time. Reminds me of PWG now, except it was all over the Northeast
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
September Wrasslin |OT| The one night a year when every table will be on the line
- Thread starter Perspicacity
- Start date
Gabe's really nailed the timing of a show from back in the day. 2 hours, quick and clean.
I've been rewatching ROH 2005, and man that was a magical time. Reminds me of PWG now, except it was all over the Northeast
FlammableD
Banned
avengers23
Banned
no lies detected
avengers23
Banned
And some of it is circumstance. ROH had a pretty big roster, and they used the long intermissions partly to sell merch, partly because the concessions in some venues were awful. You don't want to start the show when most of the crowd is still in a bathroom line or waiting to pay for drinks or shirts.
EVOLVE's roster is relatively tiny, and bringing in wrestlers to expand the show past 2 hours wouldn't be worth it. So, 2 hours is the sweet spot for the style and the size of the company.
FlammableD
Banned
According to their website, they trained Wade Barrett, Magnus and Marty Scurll. Did it go downhill?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I would have no idea, but that poster looked really rough.
FlammableD
Banned
Oh, god yes.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Oh cool, you don't have to bring your own chair anymore.
avengers23
Banned
Also, there's a sense of humor about PWG that ROH has never been able to capture, even when they had pseudo-comedy acts like Jimmy Jacobs loves Lacey, Delirious, Jack Evans, and Colt Cabana as regular parts of the show.
That Ebessan/Jack Evans/Samoa Joe/Delirious four way from Final Showdown in 2005 might be the best comedy match ROH ever had, but I could remember so clearly because ROH never had matches with a sense of whimsy like that.
That APW poster makes my eyes hurt.
Also, I know that poster's not exactly respecting any trademarks or intellectual property, but ripping off Marvel's cover font for Nova can't be good.
That Ebessan/Jack Evans/Samoa Joe/Delirious four way from Final Showdown in 2005 might be the best comedy match ROH ever had, but I could remember so clearly because ROH never had matches with a sense of whimsy like that.
That APW poster makes my eyes hurt.
Also, I know that poster's not exactly respecting any trademarks or intellectual property, but ripping off Marvel's cover font for Nova can't be good.
Student night breh...wrasslin and studying.
avengers23
Banned
The school of hard knocks, led by Dean Douglas, staffed by Matt Striker, and supported by the Doctor of Thuganomics.
BronsonLee
Member
PWG has the humor, but ever since the Dynasty stuff, they've always been real light on story stuff to me. That's fine, but ROH had a lot of moving parts and a focus on story which I prefer.
Also, I know that poster's not exactly respecting any trademarks or intellectual property, but ripping off Marvel's cover font for Nova can't be good.
especially when you're ripping of Jeph Leob's shitty Nova and not the cooler Richard Rider version.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Here's a different question for everyone - if you had your choice, alive or dead, or going under the tutelage of any wrestler or trainer for wrestling for 3 years, and no others...who would it be? Who would you choose to go away with you to learn all they have to offer?
Even the 90-minute Hulu version is a shore to get through, though. I still skip through parts.
They just don't know how to write compelling TV, both characters and storylines are weak at best.
I give a shit about Bayley finally winning the big one, or Naito and Shibata finally getting a match and settling their shit (and I can't even understand most of what they or the anouncers are saying), I care about Drake, Murphy and Alexa Bliss getting what's coming to them from The Vaudevillains.
But on Raw? I care about The New Day because they're funny, I care about Sting because I'm a WCW guy and nostalgia, but I don't care about anything WWE has done. I'm mildly interested in the THIRD MAN for the Roman/Ambrose pairing, but it remains to be seen if that'll be any good. I don't care about any of the other stories. And only Seth's matches are there to look forward to, one because Cena is awesome and one because Sting.
That's it. I could care less about anyone else winning or losing their matches, none of it matters, none of it is really compelling and no matter who wins or loses, by Monday it won't even be remembered. Nikki might lose, but she'll always have her precious record, so even if Charlotte becomes champ for the first time and has a big party with the crybaby Old Man Flair, it still won't matter since the story they were telling has been told last Monday (and that's fine, but ultimately the story was about Nikki, not Charlotte).
Regardless of specific examples. Meltzer is 100% correct in that WWE gives you nothing to care about, there's nothing there for the crowd to latch on to. The only thing you really can grab is picking a person you like in real life and rooting for them to get success as a person in professional wrestling. What they dub "the reality era." But that's wrong thinking, that shouldn't matter. It's the characters that should be compelling in a TV show, not the actors in real life. It's great if they are, but do I really give a shit how many Make-A-Wishes Agent Coulson does in real life when I watch Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.? No I don't, it doesn't matter, what matters is that his character in the show is interesting to watch and that I care what happens to him after this week's cliffhanger where bad shit is happening to him.
Anyways, like Meltzer I'm just reiterating old points that every person has made in this thread and everywhere on the planet over and over again. WWE is never gonna get it while they maintain their current mindset and leadership.
Antonio Inoki.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnHmKPSYxPo
Dude turn boys into men within minutes. A true warrior.
Stu Hart.
The dungeon churned out some legitimately great wrestlers, assuming you could take it.
Liger-san. Guy has been in the business for ages, worked with all the greats all over the world. I can only imagine the wealth of knowledge that guy has to build a decades-long successful career.
Bret Hart (or the hart dungeon I guess), HHH or Edouard Carpentier
but realistically I wouldn't go at all, being a wrestler looks incredibly hard and painful and not fun in any way, i'm not carny enough to give away my life to be underpaid and on the road 340 days a year and have a miserable life past 50
Runner up for me. The Hart Family Dungeon was truly where the big boys play.....
and scream in pain
BronsonLee
Member
Nobody.
And that's after giving it a try.
Wrestling is fun. But it'll ruin your life if you go too far down the rabbit hole.
And that's after giving it a try.
Wrestling is fun. But it'll ruin your life if you go too far down the rabbit hole.
Nocturnowl
Member
Can I undergo promo training? I don't think I'd have much use for the art of wrestling moves.
Smackdown from post-SummerSlam 2011 to Mania season 2012 is the last time. Hall of Pain Henry into douchebag-boyfriend Daniel Bryan was a pretty great run. That
British Monsoon
Member
I think EVOLVE's main issue is with presentation - I really like the timing of the shows (even if the 9PM starts are a bit of a pain for an international viewer) and it's good to see that they've found some solid buildings to run regularly, as at one point they went through a whole bunch of random dingy shit holes that did them no favours. But that being said, even if the crowd is lively the buildings are so poorly lit that it never comes across as a packed show. I don't know what attendances are like but I do know they rely a lot on iPPV buys, I just don't understand why the product has to look so low-rent.
Hrmmmm, I'd say either Shawn Michaels as he has a track record and is a legend or Kurt fuckin Angle.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Of course, but you're going to also be a wrestler, so...depends on what you want to focus on. You can be a great promo, but a poor wrassle.
WWE only? yeah NXT and Heyman Smackdown. They also both prove that we're not just all cynical assholes, RAW is just THAT bad
It's funny this topic has come up because I think it was Lance Storm this week who said Shawn Michaels is a terrible teacher because of how easy everything comes to him, and it's difficult for him to explain how to do things because his body could do things in the ring and he didn't know how or why. Shawn was just a really fucking great natural wrestling talent.
His example was when Shawn was trying to teach Randy Orton on how to do the flying head scissors. Randy really wanted to learn it apparently.
His example was when Shawn was trying to teach Randy Orton on how to do the flying head scissors. Randy really wanted to learn it apparently.
Jaguar Yokota. Despite my being male.
yup
and there's flashes of brilliance here and there. those couple of weeks from punk's promo to the mitb match in 2011 were masterful. maybe it wasn't completely a product of creative, and they managed to totally fucking ruin it the next night on raw, but when something is good, something is good.
it's just really never good most of the time.
Figuring out whose the third guy that'll help Ambrose and Reigns to battle the Wyatts.
Nocturnowl
Member
Sounds like the school of Foley, minus crippling myself I'd hope.
Dolph Ziggler?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Hmmmh. In that case, no wonder Lance Storm is so revered as a trainer.
avengers23
Banned
At least at the last Queens, NY show I went to, the venue could fit maybe 350. The venue's listed capacity is about 700, but that's only if it's configured as a nightclub. It was well attended, but there were empty seats here and there.
slightconfuse
Banned
Id get trained by Harley Race
I'd say the Tag Match with New Day, ie the best thing in the WWE right now and the Dudleys, Seth's two matches and whoever the third man for the Reigns/Ambrose match will be. Ryback Owens could be good but no stakes and no story there really.
NXT is great, you should watch last nights episode if you can catch it anywhere. Sasha and Bayley are indeed going to be having an Ironwoman match.
Ziggler got his own problems in the storyline from hell.
avengers23
Banned
Even at his Texas Wrestling Academy, wasn't Rudy Boy the actual everyday trainer?
It's the same reason most superstar athletes, such as Jordan, make terrible coaches or executives.
The New Warl Order
Dude...this needs to be booked...I mean NOW!
Rockapplause.gif
The New Warl Order
brisk tacos
Banned
Lol the shit you come up with amazes me sometimes.
Mostly. Except this part
This is such bone headed, old school "protect the business" bullshit. It's not the 80s anymore. Everyone knows what wrestling is, even the kids. WWE has gone to great lengths to get people attached to the people who play the characters on their show instead of the characters. They're trying something new, a new way of marketing their talent to their audience, yet Melzer and his little buddy are stuck on "why are they breaking kayfabe to promote charity work" shit.
It's pretty silly. You would think two guys who have made their lives (especially Meltzer) don't see the upside or even the bigger picture of what WWE is doing with their brand and talent. Alvarez in particular is a real shittheel about this stuff. When he goes on his high pitched rants about how IT MAKES NO SENSE, essentially giving voice to posters in this thread who think Stephanie is a terrible human and ruins the show because charity work promos break kayfabe.
WWE moving away from forcing their talent to stay in character even during promotional appearances is the best thing they can do. Remember when they made Kane show up to the premier of his movie in his wrestling gear? It's like making actors show up in character to all their press junkets for their movies. How silly would that be? That's how WWE was operating for 30 years. It's a much needed change. WWE's writing issues have nothing at all to do with the way they present their talent as humans outside of the ring.
The New Warl Order
Ironically if this guy was around now he'd be pushed like Roman or Russev was.