Several French cities ban Burkinis on beaches, citing "public order" concerns

Status
Not open for further replies.
Burkini-une-trentaine-de-bretons-se-baignent-habilles-par-solidarite.jpg


Thirty bretons (from the french region, not elder scroll) swimmed covered in solidarity with muslims women.
Joke's on them, they're bathing in cold Brittany water.

Maybe I should go live in Brittany, they seem pretty chill
They really are. It's a lovely region where people don't give too much of a fuck and avoid being hateful jerks.

Brittany and Aquitaine are where it's at in terms of quality of life and people being generally friendly. These are, unsurprisingly, the places where FN does its lowest scores.
 
"So what is wrong with the burkini?

As a liberal woman, I have no problem with the burkini because I believe in freedom of choice, but as a Muslim woman, I find the burkini problematic for two reasons.

First, it symbolizes a perception that women who cover up within the Muslim world are superior to those who do not: When concealing flesh is considered to be the morally correct interpretation of God’s order, it automatically places the covered woman in a higher moral league. Less covered women have no option but to put up with a lower-league status or cover their bodies. Even non-hijabi women are expected to refrain from showing more flesh by wearing a swimming costume that conforms with commonly accepted customs. God forbid if a Muslim woman opted to wear a bikini. That alone would label her simply as a whore.

Second, many Islamists advocate total segregation, and are not content with the burkini. One might presume that once Muslim women agree to cover up fully, the pro-regressionists will finally leave them alone. But the opposite is true. The more women give in and cover up, the more the advocates of regression will raise the stakes higher. Many scholars advocate a dress code that does not stick to the body or reveal a silhouette of its shape. For them, the burkini is problematic, as they prefer total segregation between men and women on beaches. Completely segregated Islamist beach resorts are common in Iran, and have started to appear in Turkey and other Muslim countries.

It may surprise many, but the harassment of women on public beaches, which is prevalent in Muslim countries, is almost negligible in Western countries, despite the revealing swimming costumes many women wear. Even in Egypt, the harassment of non-burkini wearing women is much less in upmarket beach resorts. This phenomenon destroys the main pillar of the Islamist argument that covering up protects women. In fact, the obsession with covering the flesh only triggers more misogyny and paranoia. In a strict, regressive environment, when the flesh is covered, desperate men will focus on a women’s looks, the way she moves, and her body language.

The debate on the ban of the burkini in France is yet another example that the troubles of the Middle East do not remain in the Middle East. Yes, the design of the burkini originated in Australia, but the ideology behind it is purely Middle Eastern. The burkini sums up some Muslim women’s struggle to please themselves, their societies, and their perceptions of Islam.

Burkini-wearing women and their supporters, however, cannot confront Islamophobia without addressing the hypocrisy in their native countries. If the advocates of the burkini are really genuine in their call for freedom of choice, they should confront the emotional bullying that links women’s bodies with honor. All people, including non-burkini Muslim women, should have freedom of choice. Muslim women who opt to wear ordinary swimming costumes only want to enjoy the simple pleasure of feeling the sea waves caressing their skin and touching their hair, without external judgment of their morals or religious beliefs. Once the concept of equality and diversity is accepted in Muslim countries, it will empower Muslims to defend the burkini in Western countries. Let’s be frank: prejudice in this context originated within the Muslim communities, and will never be solved until Muslims truly embrace freedom for all, and not just for burkini-wearing women."

https://nervana1.org/2016/08/21/the-right-not-to-wear-a-burkini/

Great oppinion with good arguments.


QUALITY post. i might not agree with everything she wrote , but she is obviously facing the issue with courage and non-partisanship.
 
"So what is wrong with the burkini?

As a liberal woman, I have no problem with the burkini because I believe in freedom of choice, but as a Muslim woman, I find the burkini problematic for two reasons.

(...)

https://nervana1.org/2016/08/21/the-right-not-to-wear-a-burkini/

Great oppinion with good arguments.

Two main issue:

1) Islamist is not defined and it's very often used as a stealth word to muslims, in that case it's clearly the case.

2) She consider burkini-wearer (and their supporters, which is more troubling like if you support burkini, you loose your nationality ?) non-western "their native country" is getting against the same point that i am repeating one time after the other: muslims and westerner are not two antagonist words.
 
Why put "youth" between "" ?

This is a different perspective on the issue.
Many of them won't feel french because they are not accepted as french.
Even if was raised and born in France, i feel french only when i travel. It's hard to feel french when one of the biggest political party in France consider that you are not, and the regular right is now speaking about eliminating the "right of soil" (the right to be french when you are borned in the french soil) for non-european. Without mentioning that we always get our parents countries mentioned in the newspapers if we commit a crime. All these thing make you feel you're a "secondary" kind of french.

Integration is not about that, integration is about being really french, and calling people who are borned and raised in France to integrate is just treating them as immigrants or foreigners. It's why the question doesn't even make any sense.

I think it's also due to the identitarian model of France, there is very little room to be french "something", unlike in the UK or in USA when you are not asked to abandon your cultural heritage to be fully british or american.

I have to say that i feeled french when the terrorist attacks happened in Paris.

I remember when the riot of 2005 happened in Paris suburbs and it was called a "anti-french riot", rioters showed in front of the camera with their national identity card, showing that was not the issue.

"Youth" because this is how the French media calls those young immigrants and sons of immigrants living in the suburbs. Integrating at the most basic level is to respect the country laws and all its people. Absorbing the culture and feeling French/American/German is optional but usually comes later naturally.

That's why I absolutely loathe those coward politicians abusing their power to harass a completely lawfull abiding person just enjoying their time on the beach. As you said it just makes it even harder for second generation immigrants to feel french, which I understand completely. The worst is that they do it with full impunity. They should be thrown in jail. On the flip side terrorism and high crimes in dense urban areas do not help the population to accept them so easily (not saying it is justified). It's a vicious circle.
 
How have you defined "French"? Can French be a mix of their parent's culture and the home culture? If I put those youth back in their parent's countries of origin, would they feel like those respective nationalities?

Of course a French can be a mix of whatever culture. They're the one bringing something new to the pot. Paperwork aside, I would say you are French if you feel French. And fuck all the people that would say otherwise.
 
Word of advice, don't do drinking games with bretons.
They have an unholy resistence to the thing you will lose.

Of course a French can be a mix of whatever culture. They're the one bringing something new to the pot. Paperwork aside, I would say you are French if you feel French. And fuck all the people that would say otherwise.

Exactly.
It bears repeating that the French identity is relatively young.
The reason the authorities have been able to enforce it is because there's only 1 language when they were 5 or 10 before.
You have people still trying to make thier regional culture a thing when it has been for the most part crushed by the national culture.
Before the XIXth century being French meant being the subject of the King and that was a changing and relative thing, far less important than your appartenance to the region you hailed from.
That changed with the revolution and most importantly the schools forcing French to be the 1 language to be learned.
There's not much that defines the French culture as it is, the language, the values of the Republic and the will to fight for the values you defend is what defines it to this day.
And calling people from Algeria arabs you don't understand what France is is all kinds of funny when you consider that Algeria was a French territory on the same level as Savoie between 1830 and 1961 when Savoie is French since 1860.
And we don't give shit to sayoards because they feel Italians or something.
My point is it boils down to racism really, if you have a reason for someone from the 2nd or 3rd generation not feeling French enough it's really racism.
And it also does jackshit to account for the French natives converts that are the people going to Syria to fight their war.
 
"Youth" because this is how the French media calls those young immigrants and sons of immigrants living in the suburbs. Integrating at the most basic level is to respect the country laws and all its people. Absorbing the culture and feeling French/American/German is optional but usually comes later naturally.

That's why I absolutely loathe those coward politicians abusing their power to harass a completely lawfull abiding person just enjoying their time on the beach. As you said it just makes it even harder for second generation immigrants to feel french, which I understand completely. The worst is that they do it with full impunity. They should be thrown in jail. On the flip side terrorism and high crimes in dense urban areas do not help the population to accept them so easily (not saying it is justified). It's a vicious circle.

Yes of course but for me it's mainly a social issue, crimes in every countries always arise in poorer neighbourhood when you have great social disparity and we speak about some city who have more than 50 % unemployment among the youth. With a proper plan (i don't have any miracle solution) giving access to all this youth decent way of living and a proper job, i am sure the problem would solve itself rather quickly. Just look at the profile of the terrorists.

And french "de souche" don't act less violently when they are faced in the same economical situation, but they have more chance of getting out. Again i am not justifying terrorism nor crimes but pointing out it's causes, everybody have free agency at the end but it's easier to be a law abiding citizen when actually feel like one. Some of those suburbs really look like third world country it's crazy.
 
The fun part is that Marianne is actually wearing something on her hair...
150px-Marianne_Symbol_of_french_republic_3.jpg

Guess she would be refused service in restaurants these days and we would ban her from our beaches...
and as shown she's not showing her boobs in every and all representations.
 
So they just appeal and eventually the french high court will shut it down again?

Yup.
The Corsican court which validated the ban argued that there were fights with Moroccan people who tried to "privatize" a beach there, and that such events suggest that burkinis would cause additional unrest. But they'll probably be shot down.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom