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[badcrumble]

That doesn't sound that far fetched to be honest. This isn't some false flag conspiracy theory.

That's what makes it believable to me. There's nothing super outrageous or upsetting to me, just differences in small details in the narrative that make more sense even if they're marginally less favorable for PR purposes. He's still dead, his body's still unrecoverable for all intents and purposes, et cetera. No scandal here, just fairly standard PR doctoring and not wanting to reveal actual informants or methods of information acquisition because it's pretty standard not to.

 

[soleil]

Bin Laden was in a big structure only a few miles from the main military academy of Pakistan. I think it's much more believable that they knew about him than not.

 

[tanod]

Pakistan intelligencia would say anything to save face. This is about as far-fetched a story as you can get.

 

[j_k_redtail]

Lol. Sy Hersh is the guy who broke the story on the My Lai massacre.

Sy Hersh has "broke the story" on a lot of other things in the last few years, such as the following:

1 - JSOC is operating as an arm of Opus Dei, with the aim of bringing Chrstianity to the Middle East
2 - Gas attacks in Syria were a false flag, sponsored by the US and Turkey
3 - The US brought Iranian terrorists to Nevada to train them.

Color me skeptical.

 

[BlastProcessing]

He's writing this based on one, ONE, anonymous source. Whatever good he had done before, this clearly isn't worthy of your time.

And of course, Bush admin decided to forego killing Bin Laden in 2006 for reason and left it to Obama admin to execute it.

The story has multiple sources. Most anonymous true, but he does name Asad Durrani as a direct source.

I am not saying that this story is true, but most of the the criticisms I have not seen haven't been strong.

 

[kingkitty]

actually, Osama bin Laden never existed.

according to an anonymous source from my butt.

 

[Bluefoot]

This makes sense, and Seymour Hersh is brilliant, I believe it.

I would suggest people read it all, it fits perfectly with the actual events and inconsistencies.

 

[MisterFalcon]

This makes sense, and Seymour Hersh is brilliant, I believe it.

I would suggest people read it all, it fits perfectly with the actual events and inconsistencies.

Except Pakistan and the US' relations suffered tremendously instead of the deal that was supposed to be have been struck. And the use (and loss) of an extremely sensitive new stealth chopper to execute a mission that was supposed to be in agreement with the Pakistanis.

 

[massoluk]

Seriously, am I supposed to believe that Bush admin sat on this info and do nothing?

 

[NateDrake]

Seriously, am I supposed to believe that Bush admin sat on this info and do nothing?

Doesn't the article say US didn't know until a Pakistani official decided to cash-in on the Bin Laden being a prisoner and share the information?

 

[massoluk]

Doesn't the article say US didn't know until a Pakistani official decided to cash-in on the Bin Laden being a prisoner and share the information?

Ok strike that.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Except Pakistan and the US' relations suffered tremendously instead of the deal that was supposed to be have been struck. And the use (and loss) of an extremely sensitive new stealth chopper to execute a mission that was supposed to be in agreement with the Pakistanis.

In Hersh's version of events, the use of the stealth chopper would still have value. The entire operation was to be kept entirely secret.

Then the crash caused the White House to change the story which would have pissed off Pakistan and soured the deal. According to Hersh,the entire point of the operation was to never acknowledge that Bin Laden was ever in Abbotabad.

 

[MisterFalcon]

According to Hersh,the entire point of the operation was to never acknowledge that Bin Laden was ever in Abbotabad.

There are so many ways to have accomplished that task that involved far less people, far less uncontrollable risks like helicopters crashing and less effort for everyone involved. At least they could have moved Bin Laden to a more remote location before putting on this whole charade. Apart from a full military invasion it's hard to come up with a method less conspicuous then a SEAL assault by helicopter into a large city.

 

[luckygodzilla]

In Hersh's version of events, the use of the stealth chopper would still have value. The entire operation was to be kept entirely secret.

Then the crash caused the White House to change the story which would have pissed off Pakistan and soured the deal. According to Hersh,the entire point of the operation was to never acknowledge that Bin Laden was ever in Abbotabad.

But if the U.S is in collusion with the Pakistani's why not just drive the seal team to and from the compound? Clearly this goes all the way to the top, and it really just adds un unnecessary level of complexity if both sides truly are in agreement.

 

[BlastProcessing]

There are so many ways to have accomplished that task that involved far less people, far less uncontrollable risks like helicopters crashing and less effort for everyone involved. At least they could have moved Bin Laden to a more remote location before putting on this whole charade.

I'm not sure how securely moving Bin Laden would have involved less people. How do you move him? In a car? Who moves him? How do you get him across the border? That all takes even more people to pull off.

You still need the Seals to do the job wherever he ends up and you involve the Pakistani's directly which they did not want.

 

[Jackben]

Occam's razor is usually best applied to situations like this.

 

[antonz]

If true the whole point comes down to protecting the fact Saudi Arabia continues to be a major supporter of Global Terrorism while we beat our chests about Iran and talk about how wonderful our Saudi Allies are.

 

[Kurdel]

It's time like this that GAF exposes that it's average user is on par with the mainstream american when it comes to understanding what the hell is actually going on in political world affairs. I say this because I thought nerds/internet culture was more accepting of theories in the 'conspirator' category. I suppose the scrutinization makes for a good vehicle which can serve as a bridge for people in the same boat.

I didn't realize that people actually still believed Bin Laden and the USA were not partners in crime, but I guess that's how out of touch I am with said people

Turns out we have a lot of skeptics and rational people here.

 

[YoungHav]

I am sure there are many aspects of this story that will remain hidden from the public sphere. The CIA and ISI do major shit, I am sure they know much more than the story has led us to believe.

Transparency to the people is never in a government's interest. I'm still curious about the classified Saudi connection. War is a racket indeed.

So the audio person was an impersonator?

I'm not sure. Bin Laden was paraded as a consistent threat, with colored terror level infographics and all. Once the videos stopped I just assumed he was dead but the legend had to live on for war purposes. I didn't buy his 2011 killing, but this captive since 2006 thing sounds more plausible to me.

 

[akira28]

So they pretend crash landed a Blackhawk for theatrics but couldn't organize a side of beef and some sheets?

you mean the side of beef they sent down to Davey Jones? Of the Monkees?

 

[BlastProcessing]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pakistanis-knew-where-bin-laden-was-say-us-sources-n357306

NBC News just corroborated a core piece of Hersh's story. That a walk in informant gave Bin Laden's location away and that Pakistani Intelligence knew his location all along.

 

[badcrumble]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pakistanis-knew-where-bin-laden-was-say-us-sources-n357306

NBC News just corroborated a core piece of Hersh's story. That a walk in informant gave Bin Laden's location away and that Pakistani Intelligence knew his location all along.

Nice, that's the part that was sending dweebs like Max Fisher into a tizzy.

 

[EnlightenedMint]

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/...laden-story-2011-seemingly-different-sources/

The Intercept talked to the first journalist who broke this story in 2011, pretty interesting.

 

[Ryuuroden]

Sounds like a lot of bullshit to me.

BBC throws a lot of holes in his story.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32698016

Good to know we have more conspiracy theories to have to painfully nod and smile to when the mad hatters of the world spout them.

His recent stories have consistently felt like hes just desperately trying to find something that will stick that will burnish his legend and they constantly are failing. Way to many holes in his story right now to really give any credibility to it.


Do you really think the American government can keep a secret, they can't even control their own NSA analysts. Too many people are claimed to be involved for this not to have leaked ages ago if it was real.

 

[pgtl_10]

Dude's been seriously wrong about Iran for 10+ years, I'm not saying he's lost it, but he's got some bad sources.

What has he been wrong about?

People attack this guy since he posted a story on Syrian chemical weapons two years ago. However Elliot Higgins who watches You Tube videos and acknowledges that he is not a weapons expert is viewed as trustworthy.

During the Bush administration this Hersh always used anonymous sources and no one batted an eye. Now that he does this during the Obama administration, people are like "he's not credible!"

 

[pgtl_10]

Apparently NBC is reporting separately something that confirms what Hersh said in his report:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pakistanis-knew-where-bin-laden-was-say-us-sources-n357306

Two intelligence sources tell NBC News that the year before the U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden, a "walk in" asset from Pakistani intelligence told the CIA where the most wanted man in the world was hiding - and these two sources plus a third say that the Pakistani government knew where bin Laden was hiding all along.

But don't worry guys Hersh is a conspiracy theorist.

 

[way more]

Sate.com puts more holes in the story.

Not surprisingly given his Pakistani sources, Hersh’s version of truth aligns conveniently with Pakistani interests, particularly those of Pakistani generals anxious to make themselves look less impotent after the U.S. raid. In the U.S. version that has been told many times since 2011, Pakistan’s military fell asleep at the switch multiple times, allowing Bin Laden to live near Pakistan’s version of West Point, and allowing U.S. forces to conduct a lethal raid on their territory. In Hersh’s telling, Pakistani leaders look calculating, wise, and gifted at manipulating their American patrons.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...oks_investigation_of_the_osama_bin_laden.html

 

[Volimar]

A CNN journalist who visited the compound said that there were clear signs of a tense gun battle contradicting Hersh's account that the team just walked in and shot Bin Laden.

 

[WARCOCK]

I find it kind of mind boggling that Bush wouldn't have pulled a covert ops to kill him like obama to help the republicunts win the election in 2008 if that was the case. Unless all elections are illuminati conspiracies and Obama was set to win for ages.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

If true the whole point comes down to protecting the fact Saudi Arabia continues to be a major supporter of Global Terrorism while we beat our chests about Iran and talk about how wonderful our Saudi Allies are.

and Pakistan who harbor the terrorists.

 

[Lucky Forward]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pakistanis-knew-where-bin-laden-was-say-us-sources-n357306

NBC News just corroborated a core piece of Hersh's story. That a walk in informant gave Bin Laden's location away and that Pakistani Intelligence knew his location all along.

Apparently NBC is reporting separately something that confirms what Hersh said in his report:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pakistanis-knew-where-bin-laden-was-say-us-sources-n357306

But don't worry guys Hersh is a conspiracy theorist.

Nope.

NBC Retracts Confirmation of Detail About “Walk-In” Who Gave Up Bin Laden

If true, that would be major news. But NBC now says it’s not actually true. Here’s what now appears atop NBC’s story on the walk-in:

Editor's Note: This story has been updated since it was first published. The original version of this story said that a Pakistani asset told the U.S. where bin Laden was hiding. Sources say that while the asset provided information vital to the hunt for bin Laden, he was not the source of his whereabouts.​

 

[soleil]

Occam's razor is usually best applied to situations like this.

The official story: Bin Laden was just a few miles away from Pakistan's main military academy and they didn't even know it.

New theory: Bin Laden was Pakistan's prisoner.

Applying Occam's razor: New theory wins.

 

[EnlightenedMint]

NYT had an interesting article by Carlotta Gall.

Two years later, when I was researching my book, I learned from a high-level member of the Pakistani intelligence service that the ISI had been hiding Bin Laden and ran a desk specifically to handle him as an intelligence asset. After the book came out, I learned more: that it was indeed a Pakistani Army brigadier — all the senior officers of the ISI are in the military — who told the C.I.A. where Bin Laden was hiding, and that Bin Laden was living there with the knowledge and protection of the ISI.

Hersh’s scenario explains one detail that has always nagged me about the night of Bin Laden’s death.

After one of the SEALs’ Black Hawk helicopters crashed in Bin Laden’s Abbottabad compound, neighbors called the police and reported hearing both the crash and the subsequent explosions. The local police told me that they received the calls and could have been at the compound within minutes, but army commanders ordered them to stand down and leave the response to the military. Yet despite being barracked nearby, members of the Pakistani Army appear to have arrived only after the SEALs — who spent 40 minutes on the ground without encountering any soldiers — left.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/m...r-hershs-bin-laden-story-that-rings-true.html

 

[sweetvar26]

Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to post it OP.

Long read but worth it for those who's interested in the whole scenario.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Nope.

NBC Retracts Confirmation of Detail About “Walk-In” Who Gave Up Bin Laden

Wow. That's a pretty massive retraction.