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[Dipswitch]

I think the backers only DLC mission is a great carrot to dangle in front of people who are currently on the fence. A timed exclusive would probably work out better for them, because they'd be able to sell that content to other folks later - why leave money on the table?

In my eyes, it's no different from the t-shirts and documentaries offered only to backers. Just a different spin on the same theme.

 

[Iadien]

That's their whole reason for doing this, as stated in the update vid. They want an incentive that will prompt more backing but that will not earmark too much of the additional funding just for realizing it, so that most of the additional budget can go to just making the game better in a more generalized way. Rather than just "okay we'll do linux at this mark" which could cost a significant amount of money and only be relevant to a small subset of people.

It just rubs me the wrong way, and it appears I'm not the only one.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

An exclusive mission tying in Jake Armitage and Harlequin shouldn't be that hard to make, given all they have access to as far as guys who created the universe in the first place. Makes it worth at least tossing them a dollar if you're interested in the game or setting and plan on picking it up but can't or won't pledge $15 for the first tier that would give you a copy.

 

[Sinatar]

I do not like the exclusive mission idea that much, even as a backer. They need to keep adding what they can and allow everyone to experience it.

They aren't spending 500k on the mission. It's just a bonus for giving them the funding to make the game better.

 

[Dice]

Granted, I agree that 500k extra seems like a lot for an additional story arc

I don't think that's it. I think he communicated it a bit poorly. It's more like...

They want an incentive that will prompt more backing but that will not earmark too much of the additional funding just for realizing it, so that most of the additional budget can go to just making the game better in a more generalized way.

...that. When he says "mission" that says to me it's a small bonus for backers. It's one we get at 500k more, but that doesn't mean it will take 500k (100k more than the whole original budget? lol) to develop. It's just saying to people who are still holding out on backing or waiting till later "hey, you'll get a little something for doing it NOW" while at the same time hopefully raising funds to make the game better on the whole for everyone.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I don't think that's it. I think he communicated it a bit poorly. It's more like...

...that. When he says "mission" that says to me it's a small bonus for backers. It's one we get at 500k more, but that doesn't mean it will take 500k (100k more than the whole original budget? lol) to develop. It's just saying to people who are still holding out on backing or waiting till later "hey, you'll get a little something for doing it NOW" while at the same time hopefully raising funds to make the game better on the whole for everyone.

Yeah, Evilore nailed it. It's just a tier-less reward. Most of the money will go toward making the game better. Everyone wins.

 

[EternalGamer]

I don't think that's it. I think he communicated it a bit poorly. It's more like...

...that. When he says "mission" that says to me it's a small bonus for backers. It's one we get at 500k more, but that doesn't mean it will take 500k (100k more than the whole original budget? lol) to develop..

I just watched the video. They didn't communicate it poorly. This is exactly what they said. They clearly stated that most of the additional resources would go to making the game's production values better and that this was just a small bonus. It was in no way ambiguous.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Yeah, Evilore nailed it. It's just a tier-less reward. Most of the money will go toward making the game better. Everyone wins.

Personally I agree with Iwakura completely in that I think they should offer the mission as DLC. That way the backers get their reward and everyone has an avenue to enjoy the content. I just don't like the idea that content is permanently locked out for some people, you know? Seems a bit wasteful.

 

[Iadien]

They aren't spending 500k on the mission. It's just a bonus for giving them the funding to make the game better.

I never said I thought that. I would prefer if all content (regardless of how large or small) go to anyone that purchases the game.

 

[bloodydrake]

Worse than day one DLC.

I really disagree with this sentiment.

Its free to all backers..its at the worst, closer to a free preorder bonus (like dragon age armour in Mass effect) its hardly like for pay day one DLC.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Well shit. Finally got around to looking at this project and watching the video and i am very intrigued by the sound of it. They havent really advertised this at all really. Not as much press that DF and W2 got.

 

[Dice]

I never said I thought that. I would prefer if all content (regardless of how large or small) go to anyone that purchases the game.

Well if they don't have incentives to make more fence-sitters choose to back it, it may result in less backing and so a lesser game for all. The nature of the incentive makes it clear that this dynamic is the nature of all future goals. So what alternative would you suggest?

 

[Lonewolf_92]

I kinda don't want to see another US/CA city, but Chicago would probably be great for a second (less fleshed-out) location.

One of the nice things about the Shadowrun universe is the US and Canada as we know them no longer exist and areas in those countries are very different from one another. LA is a former CalFree city (California being a former member in the United Canadian and American States that threatened to pulled out and was abandoned instead and, as an independent country in it's own right now, is currently getting buggered left, right, and center by its neighboring countries and Japan).
Chicago actually has it's own rich history (as detailed in the Bug City sourcebook), currently being walled off and under quarantine due to a massive Insect Spirit infestation. Mix Cyberpunk with a little Aliens and post-Apocalypse and you have a rough Idea of what a Chicago might be like. The reason I like Chicago for the second city is that there is no other place like it in terms of "shits gone wrong" and it would require the most custom work done to bring it to life properly (which means more stuff for us to play around with in the editor ).

I never said I thought that. I would prefer if all content (regardless of how large or small) go to anyone that purchases the game.

All content, in this case, is probably some story and a few custom sprites. I doubt this is something they're going to sink a lot of time and effort into and is meant as more of a thank you gift to those who have already pledged and encourage more pledges.

 

[Iadien]

Well if they don't have incentives to make more fence-sitters choose to back it, it may result in less backing and so a lesser game for all. The nature of the incentive makes it clear that this dynamic is the nature of all future goals. So what alternative would you suggest?

I would prefer a smaller reward that only includes a physical copy of the game.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I just don't get it, but whatever. The whole process is driven by incentivizing people to pledge, spurring them onto bigger goals and more and better content, all from the very start just to get the game made. Plus, this new content is made available to the minimum $15 level. That makes it pretty nice all around.

 

[Dice]

I would prefer a smaller reward that only includes a physical copy of the game.

That would...
1) Take a lot more money (away from spending on the game) to give everyone, rather than a mission.
2) Not get fence-sitters to become backers if it doesn't apply to all.
3) Have no meaning to people like me who actively wish to avoid physical junk.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

I just don't get it, but whatever. The whole process is driven by incentivizing people to pledge, spurring them onto bigger goals and more and better content, all from the very start just to get the game made. Plus, this new content is made available to the minimum $15 level. That makes it pretty nice all around.

He didn't put a minimum amount on the mission, just that you're a backer. You should get it if you've only pledged a $1.


I love how honest and humbled Jordan Weisman seems in these videos. He wanted a small amount to make his vision and everyone stepping up and pledging so much more really seems to have touched him.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

He didn't put a minimum amount on the mission, just that you're a backer. You should get it if you've only pledged a $1.

I suppose they could email a code or keep it tied to your pledge payment information, but it seems more realistic that the minimum to get the game is also the minimum to get the bonus mission for it. Would be neat to see it happen for just a buck, though.

 

[painey]

I think the biggest problem with a 'tier-less reward' is not so much that it is a backer reward, but that it is a non-backer punishment. If I don't back a certain tier, I'm not being punished by getting less game, just less extras.. with this if I don't back then I am getting less game.. it's this shitty type of situation we have today with 5 different retailer pre-order DLC's. I've already backed, and I think this is a bit shitty.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I think the biggest problem with a 'tier-less reward' is not so much that it is a backer reward, but that it is a non-backer punishment. If I don't back a certain tier, I'm not being punished by getting less game, just less extras.. with this if I don't back then I am getting less game.. it's this shitty type of situation we have today with 5 different retailer pre-order DLC's. I've already backed, and I think this is a bit shitty.

If we we're talking a bunch of corporate middlemen (retailers, DD storefronts, consoles or other proprietary platforms, and publishers) requiring the limited resources from a developer to appease their retail partners, I'd kind of see this angle. However, this is something from developer directly to the people who put faith and money into this to make it happen in the very first place. Not like the mission would be essential to the experience, anyway, otherwise it wouldn't be a bonus for backers.

 

[painey]

The current gen pre-order bonuses are usually non essential things too, the fact is I, and many others believe that if content is made for a game then everyone gets it.. the guy who pre-orders and buys a game for $60 on day 1, and the guy who goes on ebay three years later and buys a used copy for $3 should both get the complete game.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

The current gen pre-order bonuses are usually non essential things too, the fact is I, and many others believe that if content is made for a game then everyone gets it.. the guy who pre-orders and buys a game for $60 on day 1, and the guy who goes on ebay three years later and buys a used copy for $3 should both get the complete game.

Well, it's the developer's game to do what they want. Ultimately, I think KS is about allowing them to do what they want, freeing them to reward who they want instead of just mushing along, doing all that they need to, for the publisher. I guess we'll agree to disagree, since I don't have such particular principles.

 

[Iadien]

That would...
1) Take a lot more money (away from spending on the game) to give everyone, rather than a mission.
2) Not get fence-sitters to become backers if it doesn't apply to all.
3) Have no meaning to people like me who actively wish to avoid physical junk.

So you think people that have yet backed the project will be pushed over the edge by receiving a single mission?

 

[Lonewolf_92]

I suppose they could email a code or keep it tied to your pledge payment information, but it seems more realistic that the minimum to get the game is also the minimum to get the bonus mission for it. Would be neat to see it happen for just a buck, though.

I'm thinking that, given the game is being released with an editor with the intention that we'll be able to create our own missions for the game and be able to share them with our friends, it will likely be a download link they e-mail to their backers, then we'll plug it in like we would any other mission. The main difference being that this one is from the creators of the game and will probably contain custom sprites and character portraits that we plebeians won't have access to in the editor (sort of like those offered at the $2,500 and $5,000 tiers). I think codes might be used for the $30 and $60 tier benefits though.

 

[Dice]

So you think people that have yet backed the project will be pushed over the edge by receiving a single mission?

I highly doubt one mission would get current backers to go "Hmm, I think I'll give 50% more" so yes, encouraging more people to make the jump is the only reasoning I can think of for doing a backers-only thing at the addition of half the current budget. A thank you to backers is saying "hey, be a backer" not "back us even more"

 

[Iadien]

I highly doubt one mission would get current backers to go "Hmm, I think I'll give 50% more" so yes, encouraging more people to make the jump is the only reasoning I can think of for doing a backers-only thing at the addition of half the current budget. A thank you to backers is saying "hey, be a backer" not "back us even more"

I think they should set the goal to whatever it needs to be set to in order to add substantial content again, similar to the previous goal. Adding an exclusive mission by hitting $1.5m is lackluster and doesn't excite me in the slightest.

 

[obonicus]

I think the biggest problem with a 'tier-less reward' is not so much that it is a backer reward, but that it is a non-backer punishment. If I don't back a certain tier, I'm not being punished by getting less game, just less extras.. with this if I don't back then I am getting less game.. it's this shitty type of situation we have today with 5 different retailer pre-order DLC's. I've already backed, and I think this is a bit shitty.

If you're not giving them any money, why should you be getting any consideration at all? And once the game ships, buyers will know up-front what they're getting -- which may in fact not include this extra content. If you really really want the game, and this content, back it right now.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

So you think people that have yet backed the project will be pushed over the edge by receiving a single mission?

At my current level of backing the $125 physical copy had me thinking "Hummm, for $25 more..." but a lower level version wouldn't get more money from me but would require them to pay out more to get me a copy of it (and if it were an isolated tier might get others on my tier level to tier down to it if getting a physical copy is important to them). There goal is to get as much money as they can while paying out as little on exclusive bennies as possible. $100 is kind of a sweet spot, it's the tier where you're moving from casual to hardcore fan, if you REALLY feel you need a physical copy or you're REALLY into Shadowrun (as I am, for those keeping track) $125 isn't that far a stretch (I'm already in for $100, what's $25 more?) and the extra money helps cover the cost of producing them.
A single mission, when that mission ties in the stories of two cult classic games, might get fans of one or both of those games who have not already backed the project to chip in a few bucks to experience it, IMO.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I can't believe that people are getting their pants in a wad over this. People are saying they are being "punished" over on the SKS page?

How is this different from a special perk? Or a bigger backpack (such as in Dead Linger)?

 

[Aselith]

I don't think I want to back a game that's using ingame content as a preorder incentive. I'm going to think about it cancelling my $125 pledge.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I don't think I want to back a game that's using ingame content as a preorder incentive. I'm going to think about it cancelling my $125 pledge.

It's just an extra bonus. They already met their goal. Backing out because of that is silly. I doubt they'll reach that milestone, anyway.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

It's just an extra bonus. They already met their goal. Backing out because of that is silly. I doubt they'll reach that milestone, anyway.

Seriously.

I don't know how down you are with just pledging in general without a reward, but if you wanted to do that, you could downgrade it to like $10 or even $1 with No Reward set.

But that's only if you're donating to donate.

 

[Dice]

Well this is a large amount of backlash (I don't get it at all) so it will be interesting to see how they manage it.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I don't think I want to back a game that's using ingame content as a preorder incentive. I'm going to think about it cancelling my $125 pledge.

But in-game content is already a pre-order incentive when you look at the funding level to content relationship. Without focusing on encouraging those who are making the game happen with their pre-orders and deciding its final quality of presentation and density level of content, everyone, including non-backers, loses out. That's why it's imperative to allow the developer to navigate their own incentivization in the time they have since they know what they are capable of and what a given amount will enable and offer to the game.

 

[Aselith]

But in-game content is already a pre-order incentive when you look at the funding level to content relationship. Without focusing on encouraging those who are making the game happen with their pre-orders and deciding its final quality of presentation and density level of content, everyone, including non-backers, loses out. That's why it's imperative to allow the developer to navigate their own incentivization in the time they have since they know what they are capable of and what a given amount will enable and offer to the game.

They sell vanity items like custom skins or custom content for the main game at those higher levels, if they want do.a.weapon skun or whatever fine. I don't like retailer exclusives most especially meaningful content.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Finally put a pledge down. The "blacklash" didn't dissuade me.

 

[Dice]

I don't like retailer exclusives most especially meaningful content.

If this mission incentive helps them get 50% more backing, then it is not a loss of a mission for non-backers, it is the gain of many more missions and content than they would have gotten. It's nothing like a preorder bonus because with those the developer was already funded for the whole scope of their project.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

If this mission incentive helps them get 50% more backing, then it is not a loss of a mission for non-backers, it is the gain of many more missions and content than they would have gotten. It's nothing like a preorder bonus because with those the developer was already funded for the whole scope of their project.

I like the way you think, And you're correct of course, this mission is just one of many stories set in the Shadowrun universe that we'll be seeing when playing the game and we'll being seeing even more if they hit the goal than we'd see if they don't. We backers get to chose which city is selected for the second one added to the game as well, that has a much larger implication than a mere side story and will effect everyone playing the game, but I didn't see anyone throwing a fit that non-backer wouldn't have a choice in the matter.

 

[piratepwnsninja]

Wow, so they try to do something as a thank you for everyone that backed it in the case they reach 1.5 million and there are people angry. I shouldn't be surprised, but, well, no I'm not. There are lots of people that just need a reason to complain about the stupidest stuff on the planet, so they'll take any opportunity they can.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Wow, so they try to do something as a thank you for everyone that backed it in the case they reach 1.5 million and there are people angry. I shouldn't be surprised, but, well, no I'm not. There are lots of people that just need a reason to complain about the stupidest stuff on the planet, so they'll take any opportunity they can.

Most off the people are misunderstanding that the extra 500k isnt just for the dlc mission but instead its for additional content and its just an added reward for backers. They might even give the award anyway to backers even if they dont meet it.

Im sure the devs too are shaking their heads at the complainers.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Wow, so they try to do something as a thank you for everyone that backed it in the case they reach 1.5 million and there are people angry. I shouldn't be surprised, but, well, no I'm not. There are lots of people that just need a reason to complain about the stupidest stuff on the planet, so they'll take any opportunity they can.

Bingo. But, to be fair, the uproar hasn't been as bad in here as it has been with Wasteland at times in past weeks.

Still, everyone needs to chill out. They are using the extra money to better the game for everyone, rather than over promising for the sake of over promising.

I have serious faith in the dev team here.

 

[epmode]

Limiting game content to pre-orders only is a shitty move regardless of the funding method. Increase value with other methods, just leave the game itself alone.

 

[Aselith]

If this mission incentive helps them get 50% more backing, then it is not a loss of a mission for non-backers, it is the gain of many more missions and content than they would have gotten. It's nothing like a preorder bonus because with those the developer was already funded for the whole scope of their project.

There's no reason to believe that's true. They will reach 500k more whether they announced this or not and simply announcing that they would add more content would drive donations just as well if not better.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Im sure the devs too are shaking their heads at the complainers.

NU-UH. Devs believe exactly what I believe!

 

[wrowa]

I'm sure that they have their heart in the right place with this one, however that doesn't make the backer-exclusive content in any way more tolerable for me. It doesn't matter if it's only an incentive to get more money so that they can improve the game for everyone. What matters is that this is in the end nothing but a cheap way to force fans who want to buy the game, but weren't able to back the project up to now for whatever reason into buying it. They abuse that those people otherwise would get the uneasy and unsettling feeling that they will miss something if they don't back now. It's just the same as pre-order exclusive in-game content what I hate just as much.

The big difference with this kind of incentive and the normal "we expand the scope of the game" incentive is that in this case people feel forced to pledge, because they otherwise would miss something, while the normal incentive gives people a more positive support vibe. They pledge because they want to help making something possible, and not because they feel forced to do so.

 

[Eusis]

In my view, I don't see why all of the physical backer-only stuff should be treated any different if you're going to start picking on things, like exclusive game content.

One requires expensive production of physical goods, with the potential problems of overstocking and whatnot, and isn't actually part of the core experience (the game) itself. A backer-exclusive mission is something that is just a matter of supplying a few extra megabytes to a download, if it isn't an even smaller unlock key. It's why I love pre-order incentives like music CDs or other physical goods, but not DLC that's become much more common.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

They sell vanity items like custom skins or custom content for the main game at those higher levels, if they want do.a.weapon skun or whatever fine. I don't like retailer exclusives most especially meaningful content.

No, I mean, the incentivization of pre-order or pledges is to make the entire game better for all, not just backers. So what if backers who enabled a better final game due to pledging another $500k get an exclusive mission. It's madness to complain about that when the core experience is made better, made possible through their faith in a product sight unseen. I mean, if I'm gonna look at risk/reward here, and rewarding those of most importance to the game's very production, I could be pretty cynical and hard about it. Like...what the fuck did some non-backer do to earn that mission? Did they help organize with friends, putting it on their social networking site, tweet about it, talk about it on forums, or do anything to help get more people aware to help fund it during the pledge period? No, they didn't, so they don't get a single bonus fucking mission meant to reward people making the game happen, period. Guess what? I bet those non-backers can live just fine without it and if they can't, they should get off of their ass and pledge in instead of sleeping on it. This isn't a retailer exclusive, it's a thank you from the developer for reaching a goal to make a game better all around.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

"We're going to let you pick a second city to be added to the game. you'll get the shape how this game is for everyone who plays it."

"Yay!"

"we're giving you an exclusive side story mission that has no bearing to the main story of the game."

"Boo!"

I just don't get it.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

"we're giving you an exclusive side story mission that has no bearing to the main story of the game."

"Boo!"

I just don't get it.

Some people think that the game is not "complete" without all possible content. Which is fine, I just don't agree. The irony is that a lot of the same people are perfectly fine with games that lock out content if you make Choice X instead of Choice Y.

Then you have the Hardcore, Crazy Completionists that think they have not beat Mass Effect 3 unless they see a two second cutscene at the end of the game.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Some people think that the game is not "complete" without all possible content.

If that's the case, then the complainers should pledge to ensure their purchase of the complete experience.