Excellent way of putting it, thank you.
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Shaming Rapists in private Facebook groups
- Thread starter Machina
- Start date
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Excellent way of putting it, thank you.
I only hope some will read your post. Thank you.
And take what from it?
The fact that false rape applications are uncommon (2-8%) means we should just allow all allegations to be made public instantly because only a few people will be hurt?
GAF certainly didn't have that attitude when Trump banned transgendered people from the military - despite the fact they allegedly make up 0.7% of the armed forces (using high end estimates 0.1% by lower end estimates).
Those things aren't related. The legal system has and will continue to fail victims as it has to people in this very thread. So people want to warn others about something horrific that happened to them that could happen to others as well. Being scared that they'll just lie and accuse others of it for no reason is something that is super rare. That's all that statistic was.
How is that at all related to the military ban?
Westbahnhof
Banned
I don't think that's comparable to tweets with the perpetrator tagged, do you?
Neoleo2143
Member
I have no issue with this. A false accusation is extremely unlikely and victims would have the ability to talk about their experience regardless of legal conviction which in turn creates a conversation that can potentially change the status quo for the better.
He shouldn't have done the deed and the police should have handled the case properly.
Westbahnhof
Banned
Agreed on both points. I was just pointing out why it's different from GAF threads.
A private facebook vigilante group is a terrible idea regardless of who benefits. If I cared that deeply about being falsely accused I would have came out strongly against you instead of the opposite. I'm not personally worried. I wasn't planning on posting again after my first post.
You've got me all wrong and possibly some of the other people posting here. Especially about my thoughts on the police, I wouldn't use word "accept" with how I feel about the them. What I do accept is the underlying idea of, what I understand to be, criminal law.
I already addressed why comparing the two doesn't work in my previous reply to you the reasons why this is a terrible idea. One is abused too much, but it at least has checks in place, the other has no checks and the potential for abuse is much easier. It has nothing to do with who benefits and the issue, in this case rape, and everything to do with how it is organized. If it was about people who mistreat their pets and the consequences were equally severe, then I would be against it as well. This is simply a dumb idea and a waste of time. If you want to punish rapists go ahead, I'll roll out a carpet for you, but this idea will not get you there. Start your own private facebook group to call out rapists. Tell me how it goes in a year.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Yes it will. If the justice system won't jail a racist to keep them off the streets, making sure they are shunned and other women know about them is the next best thing
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
To all the people who are so trusting in the justice system: why are you opposed to this? If false accusations occur, defamed victims can just sue. You should trust in the system that in the end, justice will be served.
Right?
Right?
There have been many cases of men falsely accused, even when proved they did nothing later on their lives are already ruined and in shambles.
So extremely unlikely is extremely false in this.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
They should have sued then. The legal system takes care of all their problems.
I don't have the power to punish rapists. What I do have is the power to warn other women of people who have done me wrong regardless of whether or not they've been successfully convicted of a crime that has occurred. That's essentially the social contract, and I would easily sleep at night letting my friends and others know of a predator before he could harm them than not saying anything at their risk all for the satiation of men on NeoGAF.
Extremely unlikely doesn't mean impossible, though, and requiring rape survivors to act in a certain way because a small portion of people making claims are full of shit are insane.
Because rapists that get away with it will just do it again. And if the system has failed you and you're living through the aftermath and you realize your attacker is out there somewhere maybe picking out their next victim is the only appropriate reaction to sit down and shut up and do nothing because somebody else somewhere else might be accusing somebody totally unrelated? The case in the OP is, apparently, somebody with a history of this. One woman has to live with knowing she kept silent and he did it again to somebody else.
Asking the actual first-hand victims of a crime to not go public and live with the guilt if it happens again, all because the crime is so repugnant false accusations are really, really bad, is kind of nuts.
What's equally insane is that people falsely accusing guys of rape should be a common enemy here. That shit should not be tolerated, and it should be clearly and completely separated from legitimate identifying of rapists and/or trying to warn people to stay safe when the system fails. But instead, rape survivors are expected to keep mum and not commit horrible vigilanteism of naming their attacker in public because somehow not telling people about the guy who raped you will save an unrelated guy from false accusations? People who are willing to go all-in on a false accusation (who are, again, an extremely small percentage) aren't going to be deterred by society deciding rape victims should keep quiet because they're already willing to do some abhorrent stuff.
Sadly not, we all know that. Just as so many victims of rape don't get justice so do those who are falsely accused of such a crime.
Those who rape should be punished, but it's far too easy to have the innocent blamed as well.
So what is the solution? I wish I knew.
This.
False accusers harm rape victims as a group way more than they do the average guy.
Snarky❤;245305495 said:
Don't let me get in the way. Log in to Facebook and start your private group. Why are you arguing here and instead of making a group with such a great idea? You don't need permission from neogaf users.
KarneeKarnay
Member
This is what happens when police prove ineffective or unwilling to do their job. Naming and shaming before this has been decided upon in a court of law should not be done.
However if the law is unwilling, vigilante justice will pick up the cause. I don't know enough about the case to say who was right of wrong, all I can say is that legally she is straddling the line.
However if the law is unwilling, vigilante justice will pick up the cause. I don't know enough about the case to say who was right of wrong, all I can say is that legally she is straddling the line.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
We're gonna get this thread again when more is done to black people and we start getting black militias taking law into their own hands and protecting themselves from the police.
"This is not the way!"
"This isn't right!"
Welcome to the civil rights era ladies and gentleman
"This is not the way!"
"This isn't right!"
Welcome to the civil rights era ladies and gentleman
I never said I wanted to start one or needed to-- just that if I ever get abused in the future, I will let everyone know as I did the first time. If you have a problem with that, well tough.
What a shit post.
I believe in any woman who says she is raped being taken care of, to get tested, being given a rape kit and the available facts being proven. I believe in justice, not another version of the salem witch trials in whatever form they may take. It is far too easy to accuse anyone of anything, and these days the net allows many to do so without proof or through anonymity. The damage of which can be immense. We've all seen and heard that in so many ways by now. Net justice like mob justice is a very fickle thing and it's too easy to abuse and target those who did nothing. History has proven that and sadly there are stories of those who are falsely accused in this. They get posted on this very forum now and then. Rapist deserve punishment, they deserve the worse, far worse than they usually get. So many do get away with it which is a joke in itself but that's more proof we got to fix the system, everyone deserves justice.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Pretty much
Suing someone for falsely accusing you doesn't get rid of the negative stigma surrounding you, doesn't get back your family, friends, or job. Falsely being accused of rape is massively damaging.
Did you read anything I posted? I said that would be a great idea to let people know in your social circle, not a private facebook group. You never explicitly said you wanted a private group, but you made several posts advocating for it. So you only want to start one if it affects you, but don't want to start one until then? Why not start one now and let people know you have a place where people can get justice against rapists outside the law?
Brian Griffin
Member
If the system is not going to help victims then more power to them to help themselves and warn others.
Not sure why I'm obligated to start something I'm in support of for other people if I have no current need to do so myself???
Alright. Out with it. What the fuck are you really getting at with this?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Wait, you're saying you... can't trust the legal system? That you would understand why desperate people who are trying to protect themselves would take their own measures?
Or in other words, "woosh"
In any case, you have Brock Turner's family defending him and he was CONVICTED of rape, sooooo
Neverforget
Member
I 100% support women publicly shaming their rapists with every tool available.
Don't wanna get shamed? Don't rape and teach your kids not to as well.
Don't wanna get shamed? Don't rape and teach your kids not to as well.
Brian Griffin
Member
Glass Rebel
Member
Isn't it weird that this is a thread about a woman that actually was raped and where the police actively worked against her
but we got 12 pages of people being concerned about the men that might potentially be accused?
It is weird, isn't it?
but we got 12 pages of people being concerned about the men that might potentially be accused?
It is weird, isn't it?
ShironRedshift
Member
No problems with this. And I say that as a biological male. Because I know the chance of me being falsely accused is significantly lower than the chance of women being sexually assaulted or raped, and that even in the circumstance that I were to be falsely accused, because of how few sexual assault cases even go to court, never mind result in a conviction, I know that the odds are ever in my favor and the chance that I face life-altering consequences from such an accusation are minuscule when actual iron-clad cases of rape have an extremely difficult time making it all the way through the system.
And I also know that, due to the very attitudes expressed in threads like this one, where actual victims of rape are pushed aside and that we stop talking about victims of rape completely in favor of discussing "what about people who are falsely accused" every single time, and the victims of rape/sexual assault are just tossed into a corner to keep the discussion on that and no heed is payed to them, that even in the circumstance that I were to not only being falsely accused, not only have that false accusation go to court on top of that, not only have that false charge result in a false conviction, with each and each of these steps becoming exponentially less likely, that even in that particular circumstance, that because of those attitudes and how much sympathy and pure fear and terror at those ideas, that there are plenty of people out there who would clearly give me a second chance because of how dominating those fears are for them.
I mean, derailing each and every one of these threads to be about the falsely accused, but when the subject comes up, acting like people wouldn't give me the benefit of the doubt in that kind of circumstance, when they're clearly so terrified that the same could happen to them that they turn every thread on the subject to be about that particular situation and only give the slightest nod here and there to victims of rape/sexual assault who the justice system has completely failed? It just seems intellectually dishonest at that point.
Of course, to be clear, it definitely is possible that not only do I wind up falsely accused of rape sometime in my life, not only does that false accusation go to court, not only does that false charge result in a conviction, but once I'm free, that despite there being so many people out that there are completely terrified of the same thing happening to them that they rant and rave about it in every single discussion of rape/sexual assault despite the statistical unlikeliness of the possibility and the much, much, lesser amount of time they comparatively spend arguing to defend the rights and well-beings of women who were raped and what we can do to help out these events that occur much more often, that not a single one of those individuals would be willing to come to my aid.
That's possible. But that's a risk I'm kinda willing to take so that women who the justice system has completely failed have a safe place to talk about their experiences and warn others. Especially since one of those is tragically much, much, much more likely to happen than the other and way more prevalent than it has any right to be.
And it just tremendously saddens me that so many men apparently feel otherwise. That they spend such a disproportionate amount of time arguing for whatever they can to stop events which, while they do happen (I want to make that very clear--I'm not saying false accusations don't happen. They do, and if anyone tries to strawman me on that point and try to act like I'm saying otherwise, please well, don't, because I am in no way denying that), are so rare in comparison to cases of women who were indeed sexually assaulted/raped, but yet despite one being infinitely more common and likely to happen, they spend all their time arguing for what can be done to further minimize the event that already is exceedingly rare instead of what can actually be done to help the much more common event, women who were sexually assaulted/raped but who the justice system failed and allowed the culprit to continue to be free on the streets, and in many cases still worshiped/revered as if nothing had ever happened.
Considering how much time they spend arguing for the already exceedingly rare (but existent--again, not saying it doesn't happen), you'd think they'd spend even more time talking about the much more common event of women being raped or sexually assaulted and not being able to get any justice, and what can be done to help them as well, and these discussions would be even more fervent and more prevalent considering how common they are, but yet instead you tend to hear very little to none from them on the subject, and indeed, threads such as this, which are precisely about women who were raped and who the justice system completely failed and what if anything can be done to help them, are instead turned into threads about people falsely accused of rape/sexual assault, and the original discussion about what can be done to help women are victims of rape/sexual assault, that the justice system completely failed, is drowned out and lost, every goddamn time.
Just thinking about that breaks my heart and tremendously, tremendously frustrates me more than I could ever put into words here (and this is just as a man who doesn't have to actually deal with any of this--I can't imagine how women feel, much less women who are victims of precisely this and have to figure out a way of dealing with it each and every day), and makes me ashamed of my gender, but here we are...
Oh, and also, this. Like, so much this:
But now, suddenly in this one circumstance, in this one possible circumstance, harm does matter despite it apparently not in ever other possible such circumstance? Harm, that while very existent (again, I'm in no way denying false accusations happen and that when they do that they are harmless), is a situation that is exceedingly, exceedingly unlikely to get to the point where any potential harm can occur to begin with (that is, even reach the point where it goes to court, nevermind resulting in a conviction)? The harm that groups such as transgender individuals experience every single day of their lives from complete piles of trash like Milo and Ann Coulter and the like isn't anywhere near enough to let their free speech be limited, not even close and in fact it's hold up to be some kind of virtue that despite the harm it causes that we let them speak and continue causing that kinda harm anyway, despite like 40% of trasgender individuals being likely to either commit or attempt to commit suicide sometime over their lifetimes because of precisely that kind of harassment and bullshit, but the chance of harm coming from an accusation of rape that could potentially be false and potentially lead to consequences down the line as a result for the falsely accused, despite that being infinitely, just so incredibly disproportionately less likely, that's where we draw the line?
Again, it's estimated that about 40% of transgender individuals will attempt to/will succeed in committing suicide sometime in their lifetime, because of the exact type of disgusting bullshit that comes out of the mouth of people like Milo and Ann Coulter, but every single thread on them, we have people flocking to defend them and their free speech, because apparently the fact that 40% of transgender individuals committing suicide due to that exact type of thing still isn't enough to infringe on their freedom of speech in any way? But yet, but yet, the 2% chance of an accusation of sexual assault/rape apparently is more than enough of a reason to limit the free speech of these women, despite the chance of that occurring to begin with being so disproportionately lower, nevermind the chances on top of that of it making it to the point of inflicting real damage on the falsely accused? That's where freedom of speech apparently needs to be limited, despite so many people arguing for Milo's freedom of speech, despite that being the exact type of thing that leads to depression, suicidal ideation, and actually attempting suicide in 40% of transgender individuals? How does that make sense? Because to me, it doesn't.
Here's what I think: that most people simply aren't transgender, and never have to deal with that bullshit. So it's easy for them to defend the freedom of speech of fuckwits like Milo. Ain't their problem, so transgender individuals can just suck it up. 40% of them are likely to at least attempt suicide because of stuff like that? That's terrible, but still ain't my problem. They can still just find a way to suck it up somehow. Oh, but false rape accusations! Those, on the other hand, all men are able to imagine! Despite not being likely to occur to them or anyone who they know, and even less likely to not only happen to them or anyone they know but for those individuals to actually suffer any type of meaningful consequence on top of it, it's nonetheless something they can very easily imagine happening to them, which is difficult in the case of imagining the full extent of the harassment and abuse transgender individuals get for their mere existence. Therefore, it's very easy for them to do a complete flip-flop on where the limits of freedom of speech should be, despite the statistical evidence of which is more likely to actually cause harm and result in tragedy occurring, because one they can imagine happening to them or someone they know, and the other they can't.
Otherwise, how do you even begin to explain that kind of discrepancy? That despite the likeliness of transgender individuals committing suicide from the venom people like Milo spit out, people still flock to people like him and Ann Coulter each and every single time, but a 2% chance that any of the men women are talking about in these groups could be a false accusation, and that's apparently enough to get these groups shut down, despite the prevalence of depression and suicidal ideation among transgender individuals apparently not being anywhere near close enough to a reason to stop fuckwits like Milo from speaking? How else does that work, exactly? Because I just can't fathom a reason other than lack of imagination and empathy. Nothing else comes close to explaining it.
And I also know that, due to the very attitudes expressed in threads like this one, where actual victims of rape are pushed aside and that we stop talking about victims of rape completely in favor of discussing "what about people who are falsely accused" every single time, and the victims of rape/sexual assault are just tossed into a corner to keep the discussion on that and no heed is payed to them, that even in the circumstance that I were to not only being falsely accused, not only have that false accusation go to court on top of that, not only have that false charge result in a false conviction, with each and each of these steps becoming exponentially less likely, that even in that particular circumstance, that because of those attitudes and how much sympathy and pure fear and terror at those ideas, that there are plenty of people out there who would clearly give me a second chance because of how dominating those fears are for them.
I mean, derailing each and every one of these threads to be about the falsely accused, but when the subject comes up, acting like people wouldn't give me the benefit of the doubt in that kind of circumstance, when they're clearly so terrified that the same could happen to them that they turn every thread on the subject to be about that particular situation and only give the slightest nod here and there to victims of rape/sexual assault who the justice system has completely failed? It just seems intellectually dishonest at that point.
Of course, to be clear, it definitely is possible that not only do I wind up falsely accused of rape sometime in my life, not only does that false accusation go to court, not only does that false charge result in a conviction, but once I'm free, that despite there being so many people out that there are completely terrified of the same thing happening to them that they rant and rave about it in every single discussion of rape/sexual assault despite the statistical unlikeliness of the possibility and the much, much, lesser amount of time they comparatively spend arguing to defend the rights and well-beings of women who were raped and what we can do to help out these events that occur much more often, that not a single one of those individuals would be willing to come to my aid.
That's possible. But that's a risk I'm kinda willing to take so that women who the justice system has completely failed have a safe place to talk about their experiences and warn others. Especially since one of those is tragically much, much, much more likely to happen than the other and way more prevalent than it has any right to be.
And it just tremendously saddens me that so many men apparently feel otherwise. That they spend such a disproportionate amount of time arguing for whatever they can to stop events which, while they do happen (I want to make that very clear--I'm not saying false accusations don't happen. They do, and if anyone tries to strawman me on that point and try to act like I'm saying otherwise, please well, don't, because I am in no way denying that), are so rare in comparison to cases of women who were indeed sexually assaulted/raped, but yet despite one being infinitely more common and likely to happen, they spend all their time arguing for what can be done to further minimize the event that already is exceedingly rare instead of what can actually be done to help the much more common event, women who were sexually assaulted/raped but who the justice system failed and allowed the culprit to continue to be free on the streets, and in many cases still worshiped/revered as if nothing had ever happened.
Considering how much time they spend arguing for the already exceedingly rare (but existent--again, not saying it doesn't happen), you'd think they'd spend even more time talking about the much more common event of women being raped or sexually assaulted and not being able to get any justice, and what can be done to help them as well, and these discussions would be even more fervent and more prevalent considering how common they are, but yet instead you tend to hear very little to none from them on the subject, and indeed, threads such as this, which are precisely about women who were raped and who the justice system completely failed and what if anything can be done to help them, are instead turned into threads about people falsely accused of rape/sexual assault, and the original discussion about what can be done to help women are victims of rape/sexual assault, that the justice system completely failed, is drowned out and lost, every goddamn time.
Just thinking about that breaks my heart and tremendously, tremendously frustrates me more than I could ever put into words here (and this is just as a man who doesn't have to actually deal with any of this--I can't imagine how women feel, much less women who are victims of precisely this and have to figure out a way of dealing with it each and every day), and makes me ashamed of my gender, but here we are...
Oh, and also, this. Like, so much this:
Where exactly are all the "free speech" advocates who rush out every time to defend fuckwits like Milo or PewDiePie or whoever every time there's a thread about one of them? Like, people are very explicit about the harm that people like Milo cause by getting up on stage and harassing and encouraging others to harass transgender students and the like, but every time we nonetheless, despite the harm he causes, have people defending him and people like him because "free speech." The harm he causes doesn't matter at all--free speech trumps that, apparently, and he has every right to make the lives of whoever he wants hell because of that. Same with institutions such as the Westboro Baptist Church--they have the right to make the lives of grieving families hell because "free speech." The harm they cause? Doesn't matter. Free speech.
But now, suddenly in this one circumstance, in this one possible circumstance, harm does matter despite it apparently not in ever other possible such circumstance? Harm, that while very existent (again, I'm in no way denying false accusations happen and that when they do that they are harmless), is a situation that is exceedingly, exceedingly unlikely to get to the point where any potential harm can occur to begin with (that is, even reach the point where it goes to court, nevermind resulting in a conviction)? The harm that groups such as transgender individuals experience every single day of their lives from complete piles of trash like Milo and Ann Coulter and the like isn't anywhere near enough to let their free speech be limited, not even close and in fact it's hold up to be some kind of virtue that despite the harm it causes that we let them speak and continue causing that kinda harm anyway, despite like 40% of trasgender individuals being likely to either commit or attempt to commit suicide sometime over their lifetimes because of precisely that kind of harassment and bullshit, but the chance of harm coming from an accusation of rape that could potentially be false and potentially lead to consequences down the line as a result for the falsely accused, despite that being infinitely, just so incredibly disproportionately less likely, that's where we draw the line?
Again, it's estimated that about 40% of transgender individuals will attempt to/will succeed in committing suicide sometime in their lifetime, because of the exact type of disgusting bullshit that comes out of the mouth of people like Milo and Ann Coulter, but every single thread on them, we have people flocking to defend them and their free speech, because apparently the fact that 40% of transgender individuals committing suicide due to that exact type of thing still isn't enough to infringe on their freedom of speech in any way? But yet, but yet, the 2% chance of an accusation of sexual assault/rape apparently is more than enough of a reason to limit the free speech of these women, despite the chance of that occurring to begin with being so disproportionately lower, nevermind the chances on top of that of it making it to the point of inflicting real damage on the falsely accused? That's where freedom of speech apparently needs to be limited, despite so many people arguing for Milo's freedom of speech, despite that being the exact type of thing that leads to depression, suicidal ideation, and actually attempting suicide in 40% of transgender individuals? How does that make sense? Because to me, it doesn't.
Here's what I think: that most people simply aren't transgender, and never have to deal with that bullshit. So it's easy for them to defend the freedom of speech of fuckwits like Milo. Ain't their problem, so transgender individuals can just suck it up. 40% of them are likely to at least attempt suicide because of stuff like that? That's terrible, but still ain't my problem. They can still just find a way to suck it up somehow. Oh, but false rape accusations! Those, on the other hand, all men are able to imagine! Despite not being likely to occur to them or anyone who they know, and even less likely to not only happen to them or anyone they know but for those individuals to actually suffer any type of meaningful consequence on top of it, it's nonetheless something they can very easily imagine happening to them, which is difficult in the case of imagining the full extent of the harassment and abuse transgender individuals get for their mere existence. Therefore, it's very easy for them to do a complete flip-flop on where the limits of freedom of speech should be, despite the statistical evidence of which is more likely to actually cause harm and result in tragedy occurring, because one they can imagine happening to them or someone they know, and the other they can't.
Otherwise, how do you even begin to explain that kind of discrepancy? That despite the likeliness of transgender individuals committing suicide from the venom people like Milo spit out, people still flock to people like him and Ann Coulter each and every single time, but a 2% chance that any of the men women are talking about in these groups could be a false accusation, and that's apparently enough to get these groups shut down, despite the prevalence of depression and suicidal ideation among transgender individuals apparently not being anywhere near close enough to a reason to stop fuckwits like Milo from speaking? How else does that work, exactly? Because I just can't fathom a reason other than lack of imagination and empathy. Nothing else comes close to explaining it.
Seductivpancakes
Member
It's telling that it's all they got from this story.
It's weird also that this happens pretty much every time there's a rape thread on Gaf.
Oh, and remember the palming the drink thread? Someone should dig that up.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
So, the thing is...
Women who have been sexually assaulted and/or raped know they were.
No amount of tsktsk clucking is going to erase that fact.
Which means people who have been victimized will call out their abusers to help spare others the same trauma.
And
THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO OR SAY THAT WILL STOP THEM FROM PROTECTING THEMSELVES AND OTHERS.
Don't like this? Trust me, victims and those of us more concerned about them than potential maybe hypothetical "false accusations" really, really don't give a fuck.
Women who have been sexually assaulted and/or raped know they were.
No amount of tsktsk clucking is going to erase that fact.
Which means people who have been victimized will call out their abusers to help spare others the same trauma.
And
THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO OR SAY THAT WILL STOP THEM FROM PROTECTING THEMSELVES AND OTHERS.
Don't like this? Trust me, victims and those of us more concerned about them than potential maybe hypothetical "false accusations" really, really don't give a fuck.
This is extremely reductive but: So is being raped. The system cannot repair the damage someone suffers for being falsely accused any more than it can remove the trauma from a rape survivor's past. It's insufficient to actually fix anything. Best case, it serves to prevent somebody from repeating an act.
And, in this case, the expectation is that people who were raped, who were failed by the system, keep quiet and not try to prevent the same from happening to somebody else (or, maybe, warn a few close friends but definitely NOT the public at large.) Not because warning somebody about a rapist is bad, but because somebody somewhere might lie and ruin an innocent person's reputation. And so rape survivors should be shamed into silence when the system fails? And then, if it happens again to somebody else, console themselves with the knowledge that at least false accusers are having a harder time.
False accusations are unacceptable, but actual rape survivors should not be expected to stay silent because an unrelated person somewhere else might make a completely unrelated false accusation. They should not be told they are not permitted to speak out because being accused of rape is just too big of a deal to be allowed. They should not be implicitly told that what they went through is less if a violation than being falsely accused, and expected to deprioritize warning others because it might in theory lend legitimacy to a hypothetical accusation that would be bad.
Both things are bad, but unfortunately rape is a shitload more common than false accusations, so marginalizing rape victims for the illusion of protection from false accusations (because, let's be honest, if you're going to lie about being raped you're probably not too concerned about whether or not people approve of tagging rapists on Twitter) is baffling.
Honestly not sure how I feel about this but there's a clear reason to be extra wary of false accusations here.
Because it's a private ring, there's no kind of transparency or accountability or oversight or anything, right? If you *are* falsely accused, you may never even know it's happened. There's likely no remedy possible. And I mean that beyond punishing the accusers or whatever, you won't be able to tell your side of the story or make a case that a story was wholly fabricated. And because the culture around this kind of thing is very strongly biased to believing accusers by design, it's hard to imagine even self-policing within the community.
Maybe the collateral damage and susceptibility to corruption are worth the benefit, but let's recognize there's obviously a trade-off here a "system" like this isn't downside-free.
LinkAndEpona
Banned
What people aren't realizing or are straight up ignoring is that rape is incredibly difficult to prove since it's so much 'he says she says' and men are always at the disadvantage, pretty much guilty into proven innocent.
benicillin
Banned
Are you kidding me?
There are links and stats and multiple sources in this very thread that show how bullshit this statement is. The system is against the victims in rape cases, not the rapists. Hardly anyone gets convicted of rape. It's like 1% of all rapes that occur that get a conviction.
ShironRedshift
Member
...Wat. Which is it exactly? The first half of your sentence and second are like... kinda the exact opposite? If rape is incredibly difficult to prove (it is), how are men simultaneously "always at the disadvantage" and "assumed to be guilty until proven innocent." Which is it? What are you saying? Nothing about this makes any sense, especially since there's absolutely no evidence that men accused of rape are "treated as guilty until proven innocent." If that were the case, most rape cases that actually make it to court (most don't even make it that far) would actually result in convictions! But they don't. So how are men "assumed guilty until proven innocent" exactly? Nothing about this makes sense, and I shouldn't even be humoring it since it's drifting further of track of the actual subject of the experiences of women who were in fact raped who the justice system failed, but yet this one's just a bit much for me to let slide.
excelsiorlef
Member
Hey please don't use oppression of my community as a weapon
Here, I'll quote you again with receipts. Happy reading.
False rape accusations happen at the same percentage as any other crime, and that's only a percentage out of the rapes that are actually reported, not the ones that happen and are never reported.
But for some reason people are REALLY worried about false rape accusations.
The two halves of your statement are in direct opposition to each other.
Stats show clearly this is false.
Actual stats tell otherwise.
Seductivpancakes
Member
So much a disadvantage that a small percentage of rapists are in jail.
What terrible odds.
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