Support NeoGAF

[rybrad]

I just made it to Shibuya tonight, about how much time do I have left in the game? I am trying to finish before Bravely Default gets here on Friday.

I killed a level 75 demon on my way there too and felt pretty good about it. Yea, it was super easy and I am sure everyone killed it in their 30's too but I still though it was neat figuring out how to abuse the game systems.

 

[Shengar]

Don't worry. You only need 1 demon with pierce to win.
I quickly made Shiva with Pierce Physical + Berseker God + High Phys Pleroma + Phys Pleroma + Dark Energy and he was able to beat him alone with that setting.

I don't think that it's possible to beat him without pierce. Probably with a team 100% physical 999 dx + 999 st and Desperate Hit lol.

What demons that have those skills? Never seen one before.

I just made it to Shibuya tonight, about how much time do I have left in the game? I am trying to finish before Bravely Default gets here on Friday.

I killed a level 75 demon on my way there too and felt pretty good about it. Yea, it was super easy and I am sure everyone killed it in their 30's too but I still though it was neat figuring out how to abuse the game systems.

Believe me, your journey is still long-long ahead.

 

[Soulhouf]

What demons that have those skills? Never seen one before.

Sanat.

 

[Splash Wave]

I apologize for the dominating this thread with my questions (and thanks to everyone who has responded to me thus far), but I have another!

In general, should I always ditch a demon that has learned every skill it can learn. This is generally how I operate, but I'm finding that I end up losing demons that were still actually pretty useful. I'm trying to beat the demon at Shinjuku, for instance, and I'm realizing the Tam Lin that I've long since fused away would be really useful. Alas, I'd have to spend a ton of money to get him back, and I'm not entirely sure it's worth it.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Sanat.

Just looked this guy up - It should be pointed out that he's a DLC demon.

I'm at the point where I've done all I can in Neutral and I either need to buy some of the DLC, watch the ending cutscenes and start a Chaos run, or just move on to the next game. At 155 hours on the in-game clock, 205 hours by the OS reckoning (i.e. 50 hr spent resetting the game to roll new fiends), and having reset the game 2160 times, I think I'll just call it a day for now.

Final thoughts:

This game is amazing and addictive. Yes, the game has its flaws:

- Terrible overworld map implementation that just assumes the neighbourhoods of Tokyo are so famous they don't need labels or explanation

- Grinding DLC being available anytime and not just the post-game. While I found it useful for speeding up what I was going to do anyway (grinding money to blow on fusing demons from the Compendium / leveling them to max in an hour as opposed to several days), as it's implemented, it can very easily become a pay-to-win type of thing, which isn't okay.

- Having to reset for those damnable fiends. I don't care about tradition. Fifty hours I spent resetting all up. I could have played one, two other games in that time.

- The irritatingly sensitive alignment system that forces you to act like a bipolar, inconsistent cartoon villain with a soft side

- A backstory that is never fully explained unless you buy the DLC

- Poorly explained stats, so I spent a bunch of points in Strength that I should have put into Dexterity or Magic.

- Inability to neatly reorder your skills​

The lows are matched and exceeded on the other end of the scale by the highs:

- A very fun battle system where having the advantage is everything

- Fusing demons and reading about their profiles was a lot more fun (and educational) than I ever thought it would be. It's a bit like Pokémon breeding with all the crap bits taken out, plus cross-breeding for stronger monsters

- Goofy characters that kept things light in the face of how grimdark and messed up everything was

- Surprisingly good voice acting, though this is from someone who typically doesn't care about that sort of thing​

All-in-all, this game is definitely my GOTY 2013.

I apologize for the dominating this thread with my questions (and thanks to everyone who has responded to me thus far), but I have another!

In general, should I always ditch a demon that has learned every skill it can learn. This is generally how I operate, but I'm finding that I end up losing demons that were still actually pretty useful. I'm trying to beat the demon at Shinjuku, for instance, and I'm realizing the Tam Lin that I've long since fused away would be really useful. Alas, I'd have to spend a ton of money to get him back, and I'm not entirely sure it's worth it.

If a demon was good enough to be in my party, I generally kept them around until something clearly better came along. Otherwise it was just fuse, fuse, fuse.

 

[jay]

I apologize for the dominating this thread with my questions (and thanks to everyone who has responded to me thus far), but I have another!

In general, should I always ditch a demon that has learned every skill it can learn. This is generally how I operate, but I'm finding that I end up losing demons that were still actually pretty useful. I'm trying to beat the demon at Shinjuku, for instance, and I'm realizing the Tam Lin that I've long since fused away would be really useful. Alas, I'd have to spend a ton of money to get him back, and I'm not entirely sure it's worth it.

This is how I played. Once a demon learned everything, time to get someone new. And I wouldn't fuse anything until it had learned its skills. This made things hard and would cost me a ton of money when I realized I had fused or stopped using my best demons in order to get some loser in to learn skills. So I'm not sure I'd recommend playing this way.

 

[Splash Wave]

This is how I played. Once a demon learned everything, time to get someone new. And I wouldn't fuse anything until it had learned its skills. This made things hard and would cost me a ton of money when I realized I had fused or stopped using my best demons in order to get some loser in to learn skills. So I'm not sure I'd recommend playing this way.

This is what worries me--so many of the demons I fuse away are still incredibly useful.

Is it possible to "grind" toward Neutral at some point in the game?

 

[Soulhouf]

Final thoughts:

I agree with many of your arguments and I respect those which I don't agree with.
Though the fact that you didn't complain about the new demons' design and how inconsistent it is, I guess you didn't play Nocturne.
If it's the case, I strongly encourage you to do so. It's very different from 1,2 and 4, yet still amazing and memorable.
SMT4's battle system is based on Nocturne's and the Fiends aren't some bullshit with ridiculous chance to spawn. Even if most of them are optional bosses, they are part of the main story and they lead you to the game's ultimate ending, which is so amazing and satisfying.

I apologize for the dominating this thread with my questions (and thanks to everyone who has responded to me thus far), but I have another!

In general, should I always ditch a demon that has learned every skill it can learn. This is generally how I operate, but I'm finding that I end up losing demons that were still actually pretty useful. I'm trying to beat the demon at Shinjuku, for instance, and I'm realizing the Tam Lin that I've long since fused away would be really useful. Alas, I'd have to spend a ton of money to get him back, and I'm not entirely sure it's worth it.

There are demons who are better than others, but keep in mind that the skills are the most important thing you should worry about. As you continue to fuse, the number of skills you get and their quality will improve making any demon viable. So, my advice is as soon as a demon you don't use learns all its skills, fuse it and capture others to create new more powerful demons.

 

[Caladrius]

This is what worries me--so many of the demons I fuse away are still incredibly useful.

Is it possible to "grind" toward Neutral at some point in the game?

If you keep a good supply of Macca I say save them in the compendium (which you should do anyway once they've learned everything), fuse them off, resummon the demon and continue with business as usual. That also lets you pass off their skillset to even more demons once you're actually ready to fuse them.

And there are a few optional quests that can influence your alignment, but it's a crapshoot because there's a zone inside the neutral margin where it becomes impossible to get the neutral ending.

 

[Ultratech]

Cool, I finally beat

Spoiler

King Kenji

.

Took 2 attempts, since on the first one, he wrecked my Party with something called Conqueror's Spirit which pretty much took out all my Demons on his first round of turns.
Didn't last long after that.

Second attempt made the boss look like a joke.
Gratuitous use of buffs/debuffs and Tetrakarn made it WAY too easy.
I think he got stuck on a pattern; just about every turn, he'd attempt to Attack the party, only to have it hit party-wide and Reflect 4x.
Must have some odd resistance to Magic too, since even when hitting his weaknesses, my Physical demons were doing much more damage.

Anywho, it's on to the Neutral Ending now...which should be interesting.
Just for fun, I went and looked up the "Bad Ending".

Spoiler

Welp, there goes everything into nothingness. The White can suck it.

 

[Gazoinks]

Cool, I finally beat

Spoiler

King Kenji

.

Took 2 attempts, since on the first one, he wrecked my Party with something called Conqueror's Spirit which pretty much took out all my Demons on his first turn.
Didn't last long after that.

Second attempt made the boss look like a joke.
Gratuitous use of buffs/debuffs and Tetrakarn made it WAY too easy.
I think he got stuck on a pattern; just about every turn, he'd attempt to Attack the party, only to have it hit party-wide and Reflect 4x.
Must have some odd resistance to Magic too, since even when hitting his weaknesses, my Physical demons were doing much more damage.

Anywho, it's on to the Neutral Ending now...which should be interesting.
Just for fun, I went and looked up the "Bad Ending".

Spoiler

Welp, there goes everything into nothingness. The White can suck it.

The only thing really hard about that boss, imo, is his Ancient Curse which gives your entire party every status ailment. If you have something to null status ailments or luck into a pattern where he doesn't use it, he's a cakewalk.

 

[pariah164]

Oh man. It's been a while since I played this...

I may. Start over. Because I have no idea where I'm at.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I agree with many of your arguments and I respect those which I don't agree with.
Though the fact that you didn't complain about the new demons' design and how inconsistent it is, I guess you didn't play Nocturne.
If it's the case, I strongly encourage you to do so. It's very different from 1,2 and 4, yet still amazing and memorable.
SMT4's battle system is based on Nocturne's and the Fiends aren't some bullshit with ridiculous chance to spawn. Even if most of them are optional bosses, they are part of the main story and they lead you to the game's ultimate ending, which is so amazing and satisfying.

This game was my introduction to the series, so I really couldn't tell you which were the new designs and which are the old. Some are obviously re-used from a different era (Aquans / Erythis / Flaemis / Aeros all look like they were drawn with crayons), but I assume they've been around as long as the Metroidvania skeleton sprite.

I actually had no idea people didn't like the new designs until now, so to me it wasn't a big deal.

 

[Shengar]

- Fusing demons and reading about their profiles was a lot more fun (and educational) than I ever thought it would be. It's a bit like Pokémon breeding with all the crap bits taken out, plus cross-breeding for stronger monsters

It's practically a librarium of knowledge upon demon and mythical creature, and especially useful for me if I need inspiration to create my own gods and creatures. Truly demon fusing is one of the main highs of the game. I even stopped playing for months because on higher level there are only little handful of demons left to fuse (and many of them already well known like Susanoo or of course, Mara).

 

[Korigama]

This is what worries me--so many of the demons I fuse away are still incredibly useful.

Is it possible to "grind" toward Neutral at some point in the game?

I would recommend investing in the summoning discount apps somewhere along the way (eventually, you'll be able to pay only half of what it would normally cost to buy back demons from the compendium).

As mentioned earlier, there are indeed some sidequests that affect alignment. After figuring out which ones these were, I generally only bothered with them to even myself back out (in my case, I was leaning too far toward Law). My advice is to try to be Neutral before heading to (mid-to-late game spoiler)

Spoiler

Camp Ichigaya

and hope for the best, because you won't have any way of keeping track of your alignment anymore in the events leading up to the lock.

 

[Gazoinks]

Spoiler

I don't want to fight Isabeau, it's not my fault the game makes Neutral so hard to get. ;_;

Also: "This woman has come into contact with manga. SHE MUST BE PURGED."

 

[Soma]

Welp that's Neutral Route done with.

Spoiler

Lucifer

ended up being pretty easy with my team. His design was pretty interesting too. I haven't been a fan of most of the re-designs in this game but his was kinda cool if a little silly.

Good ending though. Seemed like a very idealized ending but it left me satisfied either way. I enjoyed this quite a bit overall but it definitely did have its issues.

I'll probably do one of those LTTP threads since I haven't done one of those in forever.

Going through New Game+ to get the Chaos Route now.

Spoiler

I don't want to fight Isabeau, it's not my fault the game makes Neutral so hard to get. ;_;

Also: "This woman has come into contact with manga. SHE MUST BE PURGED."

Watching youtube clips of this route (since I doubt I'll ever get to it) and this part was so sad. Especially with the music playing. ;_;

 

[Gazoinks]

Watching youtube clips of this route (since I doubt I'll ever get to it) and this part was so sad. Especially with the music playing. ;_;

It made me feel really guilty. ;_;

On the bright side,

Spoiler

Merkabah is very ashamed of you for eating bar food. Which is hilarious.

Is the late 60s enough for the DLC bosses?

 

[Shengar]

Spoiler

I don't want to fight Isabeau, it's not my fault the game makes Neutral so hard to get. ;_;

Also: "This woman has come into contact with manga. SHE MUST BE PURGED."

The reason why I want to stay neutral. Every cycle possible. But those aligment exclusive demons, why they must make me do this ;__;

 

[Splash Wave]

Another question!

How should I be outfitting my MC if I'm specializing in Dexterity? So far I've just kept him a jack-of-all trades--in spite of having an abysmal Magic stat (or should be adding to this?), I'm finding it useful to always have at least one element covered.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Another question!

How should I be outfitting my MC if I'm specializing in Dexterity? So far I've just kept him a jack-of-all trades--in spite of having an abysmal Magic stat (or should be adding to this?), I'm finding it useful to always have at least one element covered.

Gun & physical skills. Do the Jack Frost fusions (Black Frost, Frost Ace and possibly King Frost from memory) to get Demonee-Ho. He has a move called Desperate Hit that's the best in the game provided you're running a Dex build.

Also think about getting a combination of some of (you won't be able to get all of them) Charge, Doping, Dekaja, Dekunda, Luster Candy, Debilitate, Shivering Taboo, Tetrakarn and Mararakarn. The latter two are very useful except on bosses with Almighty moves, which unfortunately includes most of the endgame and post game bosses.

 

[Shengar]

What makes Desperate Hit good actually?

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

What makes Desperate Hit good actually?

It's Almighty, so (almost) nothing resists it, its damage is calculated based on Dexterity, it hits multiple times and has a high critical rate because of multiple rolls. On average, it does as much as, if not more damage than Riot Gun (severe gun attack).

 

[Soulhouf]

Another question!

How should I be outfitting my MC if I'm specializing in Dexterity? So far I've just kept him a jack-of-all trades--in spite of having an abysmal Magic stat (or should be adding to this?), I'm finding it useful to always have at least one element covered.

In addition to what viciouskillersquirrel said, you should increase your luck stat to be able to trigger critical hits more often. Completely ignore the Mg and St stats and concentrate on increasing Dx, Lu and Ag.
As for the skill set, it's always good to have:
- Charge
- one physical skill
- one gun skill
- Desperate Hit
- Doping
- Luster Candy
- Judgement Light
- Debilitate/Salvation <- I personally prefer Salvation because you can have demons who have Antchthon which is basically an Almighty attack with Debilitate effect.

What makes Desperate Hit good actually?

Imagine a skill which has no resistance and almost always trigger weakness (critical hit).
When it hits 5 times, it really hurts especially if you charge it the previous turn.
That is desperate hit.

 

[Shengar]

It's Almighty, so (almost) nothing resists it, its damage is calculated based on Dexterity, it hits multiple times and has a high critical rate because of multiple rolls. On average, it does as much as, if not more damage than Riot Gun (severe gun attack).

Imagine a skill which has no resistance and almost always trigger weakness (critical hit).
When it hits 5 times, it really hurts especially if you charge it the previous turn.
That is desperate hit.

.............
Goddamnit, I feel for a fool not knowing these D:

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

.............
Goddamnit, I feel for a fool not knowing these D:

Don't feel bad. The game's explanations for how stats contribute to things like damage calculations are really poor and misleading.

 

[Splash Wave]

I have such a strong aversion to getting Demolingual, but it seems like I won't be able to make Black Frost without it. Should I just bite the bullet?

 

[Korigama]

I have such a strong aversion to getting Demolingual, but it seems like I won't be able to make Black Frost without it. Should I just bite the bullet?

You'll start running into more demons that require it for recruitment (it also being necessary should a demon that's otherwise unintelligible stop the fight and ask for mercy). I'd recommend it.

Additionally, should you have such a demon in stock and speak to a translated enemy of the same type in battle, you'll get EXP just for having spoken to it. Not a lot, but I figured I'd mention it while on the subject.

 

[Gazoinks]

In addition to what viciouskillersquirrel said, you should increase your luck stat to be able to trigger critical hits more often. Completely ignore the Mg and St stats and concentrate on increasing Dx, Lu and Ag.
As for the skill set, it's always good to have:
- Charge
- one physical skill
- one gun skill
- Desperate Hit
- Doping
- Luster Candy
- Judgement Light
- Debilitate/Salvation <- I personally prefer Salvation because you can have demons who have Antchthon which is basically an Almighty attack with Debilitate effect.



Imagine a skill which has no resistance and almost always trigger weakness (critical hit).
When it hits 5 times, it really hurts especially if you charge it the previous turn.
That is desperate hit.

Woah. Definitely gonna do a Dex build next time around.

 

[Splash Wave]

My Dex MC so far:

Needle Shot (this seems like the obvious thing to remove but I like having a 1-target Gun attack)
Bufula
Zionga
Rakukaja
Agilao
Blight
Stun Needles

Now, I have the option to add Blast Arrow to the lineup, but I can't decide what to get rid of. I think the first order of business is to phase out the elemental stuff, all of which has been pretty useful thus far. I'm beginning to think the convenience of having that stuff is no longer worth it, though.

 

[Caladrius]

My Dex MC so far:

Needle Shot (this seems like the obvious thing to remove but I like having a 1-target Gun attack)
Bufula
Zionga
Rakukaja
Agilao
Blight
Stun Needles

Now, I have the option to add Blast Arrow to the lineup, but I can't decide what to get rid of. I think the first order of business is to phase out the elemental stuff, all of which has been pretty useful thus far. I'm beginning to think the convenience of having that stuff is no longer worth it, though.

I'd definitely throw one of the elemental spells. 1 spell + an elemental bullet should be enough coverage, and it sounds like you're at a point in the game where neutral gun attacks are going to start doing more damage than effective spells.

 

[LostAnkh]

Beat Medusa today and went down into the underground. Now this game will REALLY start moving along.

Also, I think this is appropriate...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nGWEb5QxGA

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Beat Medusa today and went down into the underground. Now this game will REALLY start moving along.

Also, I think this is appropriate...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nGWEb5QxGA

lol wut

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Beat Medusa today and went down into the underground. Now this game will REALLY start moving along.

Also, I think this is appropriate...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nGWEb5QxGA

This is the greatest video I have ever seen

Oh god, I can't feel my face

 

[cj_iwakura]

This is the greatest video I have ever seen

Oh god, I can't feel my face

It gets better every time I watch it.

do you even dungeon crawling?

 

[CertifiedFP]

Series newcomer brought in by P4G here, looking to burn my next paycheck on a 3DS and SMT4 (Ok, I'll admit, I'm plunging in for BD moreso than SMT4) and I just want to ask for a quick rundown of the major differences (Beyond the obvious ones) in mechanics that I'm going to encounter coming from Persona.

 

[LostAnkh]

Series newcomer brought in by P4G here, looking to burn my next paycheck on a 3DS and SMT4 (Ok, I'll admit, I'm plunging in for BD moreso than SMT4) and I just want to ask for a quick rundown of the major differences (Beyond the obvious ones) in mechanics that I'm going to encounter coming from Persona.

You'll be fine if you're used to P4G, just don't make a lot of mistakes, because they'll come back to bite you in the ass.....even the weaker demons can surprise you...

Aside from that, SMT4 has the Press Turn system, which isn't that hard to use for your benefit. Scouting demons is one of the only ways to get them, instead of cards, and you'll get unexpected results randomly.

 

[Gazoinks]

Bam! Just finished up my first playthrough (Law) at around 38-ish hours (I skimped on side quests >.>). Leaving that save up so I can go after the DLC, and I'm also gonna go into NG+ and take a stab at Neutral. Probably not immediately though.

I still don't really know what's going on in the intro. >.> Who's the kid?

 

[Korigama]

Bam! Just finished up my first playthrough (Law) at around 38-ish hours (I skimped on side quests >.>). Leaving that save up so I can go after the DLC, and I'm also gonna go into NG+ and take a stab at Neutral. Probably not immediately though.

I still don't really know what's going on in the intro. >.> Who's the kid?

(MAJOR SPOILERS FOR NEUTRAL PATH)

Spoiler

The Goddess of Tokyo that you're seeking to revive on the Neutral path. Basically, where the title of the game ("True Goddess Reincarnation") comes in.

 

[Gazoinks]

(MAJOR SPOILERS FOR NEUTRAL PATH)

Spoiler

The Goddess of Tokyo that you're seeking to revive on the Neutral path. Basically, where the title of the game ("True Reincarnation of the Goddess") comes in.

Oooooh. DAMN YOU NEUTRAL PATH.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Oooooh. DAMN YOU NEUTRAL PATH.

The annoying thing about that is that

Spoiler

there is such a huge gap between seeing her and Stephen Faux-king in the first Domain and seeing them again ever, you forget that they even exist.

 

[TurnipFritters]

The annoying thing about that is that

Spoiler

there is such a huge gap between seeing her and Stephen Faux-king in the first Domain and seeing them again ever, you forget that they even exist.

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure Stephen reappears when you're heading down the scaffolding to get into Tokyo, where he unlocks the Streetpass feature, right?

 

[Splash Wave]

Trying to decide between two sets of demons. In both cases, each one can fulfill a similar role:

Brigid (expensive, as I'd have to re-summon Setanta) or Dis for Mediarama?

Dantalian or Makami for Tetrakarn?

I'm also having trouble prioritizing Apps. Should I be focusing on Skill Slots or upgrading MP restoration? In regard to the former, I'm only missing one last upgrade for my MC and for my demons.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure Stephen reappears when you're heading down the scaffolding to get into Tokyo, where he unlocks the Streetpass feature, right?

Spoiler

Oh yeah. That sequence doesn't happen in NG+, so I forgot.

 

[TurnipFritters]

Spoiler

Oh yeah. That sequence doesn't happen in NG+, so I forgot.

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's still hecka dumb that

Spoiler

they're both MIA for 90% of the game. I guess it's kind of similar to how Blasted/Infernal Tokyo show up in the intro but you don't get to see them again until much later, but...

 

[Soulhouf]

Trying to decide between two sets of demons. In both cases, each one can fulfill a similar role:

Brigid (expensive, as I'd have to re-summon Setanta) or Dis for Mediarama?

Dantalian or Makami for Tetrakarn?

I'm also having trouble prioritizing Apps. Should I be focusing on Skill Slots or upgrading MP restoration? In regard to the former, I'm only missing one last upgrade for my MC and for my demons.

I would take Makami because he has also Null Mind and that skill is very useful against later bosses, especially if it mutates to Null Nerve (get the app Skill Augment asap, it's god tier).

Regarding apps, Skills come first then MP restoration.

The annoying thing about that is that

Spoiler

there is such a huge gap between seeing her and Stephen Faux-king in the first Domain and seeing them again ever, you forget that they even exist.

Spoiler

You see the little girl a couple more times between the 2 major events.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Spoiler

You see the little girl a couple more times between the 2 major events.

Spoiler

And I forgot who she was both times. I was like WTF? Baby Isabeau?

 

[Splash Wave]

I would take Makami because he has also Null Mind and that skill is very useful against later bosses, especially if it mutates to Null Nerve (get the app Skill Augment asap, it's god tier).

Regarding apps, Skills come first then MP restoration.

Spoiler

You see the little girl a couple more times between the 2 major events.

Thanks, maybe I'll grab Skill Augment before anything else?

 

[Korigama]

Spoiler

And I forgot who she was both times. I was like WTF? Baby Isabeau?

Spoiler

I was WAY off in respect to who I thought she was when I first played through, having thought it may have been Hikaru. In addition to the fact that I hadn't bothered thinking about the meaning of Hikaru's name, the Neutral path doesn't bother explaining where she went anyway.

 

[Soulhouf]

Thanks, maybe I'll grab Skill Augment before anything else?

Having all skill slots and MP refill is more important. Once you have those, get Skill Augment because you will be able to get high skills such as Luster Candy and Trisagion earlier.