If you talk to some NPCs, including the members of Cafe Florida, it's pretty obvious.
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Shin Megami Tensei IV |OT| The Dark Souls of Persona
- Thread starter Volcynika
- Start date
If you talk to some NPCs, including the members of Cafe Florida, it's pretty obvious.
NeonZ
Member
I think showing only events relevant to each faction after the alignment lock was SMT IV's biggest misstep storywise. If we got to see
Walter being absorbed by Hikaru in all routes, not only in Chaos, the battle against Lucifer afterwards could have been much more dramatic. Same goes to Jonathan and the Archangels.
Restricting story scenes to only one faction per path makes the final enemies seem underwhelming and kind of random since you basically see nothing about them before actually facing them. It'd take some convenient writing (like arriving when Walter is just about to be sacrificed for Hikaru, for example), but it'd still be better than not getting to see those scenes at all.
Restricting story scenes to only one faction per path makes the final enemies seem underwhelming and kind of random since you basically see nothing about them before actually facing them. It'd take some convenient writing (like arriving when Walter is just about to be sacrificed for Hikaru, for example), but it'd still be better than not getting to see those scenes at all.
So, I got about 27 hours into this game and then stopped playing it last september when school started back because i got pretty busy... I tried playing this game again yesterday because I want to finish it, but damn... I have no idea what im doing or what i was doing before I stopped playing. Im probably going to spend a couple hours today looking over the strat guide and walking through Tokyo to get my bearings straight.
Well that's a bummer. I had been avoiding that because it didn't sound very useful and it takes so many points. Guess I will have to save up some points now.
Oh, when I said I beat the game after 38 hours I lied. 
Was actually 48. I was looking at the save playtime, not the 3DS gameplay stats. Does that mean I reset enough to lose 12 hours of gameplay?
EDIT: I just beat Clipped Wings so I wanna fuse up the special demons. Does anyone know where a Throne, Aniel, and Yggdrasil can be recruited? Or easy fusions to make them?
Was actually 48. I was looking at the save playtime, not the 3DS gameplay stats. Does that mean I reset enough to lose 12 hours of gameplay? EDIT: I just beat Clipped Wings so I wanna fuse up the special demons. Does anyone know where a Throne, Aniel, and Yggdrasil can be recruited? Or easy fusions to make them?
I just recruited a wild Titania and something weird happened. When I checked my Titania in the compendium, she had 10 less HP despite being 2 levels higher. And no, the one I recruited doesn't have any Life increase skill.
Until now I never noticed any variation in regard of HP of the same demon. Is this a known thing?
Protip: For Throne, in the fusion search, mark you want to fuse a divine demon and the check box that says include compendium and you will have all the combinations to get all the possible divine demons.
If it says "there are too many results", add a skill criteria to narrow the results.
Do the same for the other 2 (Aniel is a Herald and Yggdrasil is a Tree).
Until now I never noticed any variation in regard of HP of the same demon. Is this a known thing?
Protip: For Throne, in the fusion search, mark you want to fuse a divine demon and the check box that says include compendium and you will have all the combinations to get all the possible divine demons.
If it says "there are too many results", add a skill criteria to narrow the results.
Do the same for the other 2 (Aniel is a Herald and Yggdrasil is a Tree).
:O I forgot you could do that. I love fusion search so much.
So, I have a question. I picked the game up on a whim and while it wasn't quite what I wanted I was enjoying it for a while. I'm at the point where
My intrest has been quickly lost since I got to
but I would like to finish it. Am I anywhere near the end? If I didn't enjoy it past
enjoy other games in the series or persona?
the circle memebers get eaten by some big demon I do one damage to. Once the last circle memeber is killed she started to take actual damage.
Tokyo
Tokyo
-Nowhere near the end.
-If you haven't enjoyed it after reaching Tokyo, which is pretty much the point where things actually get interesting, then I can't guarantee you'll enjoy other mainline SMT games or spin-offs such as Soul Hackers. Persona is a very, very different series, with P4 for instance focused more on characterization and socializing than SMT IV (dungeon crawling takes a back seat, by comparison). Unless I've misinterpreted the question, and you meant to say that you did enjoy those other games instead.
No, you got it spot on. Thanks for the heads up, it's really the lack of direction that i'm not enjoying. Guess i'll take a look at P4 but i guess that'll be it for SMT for me.
cj_iwakura
Member
To be fair, Soul Hackers has way more characterization than SMTIV. Some people like it far more, myself included.
This is true. Though I prefer SMT IV as an actual game, SH had the better characters and overall story.
Made a little more progress today and did some more fusion to get Trisagion and Deadly Wind to my MC.
(Hooray for Snow Day!)
Also opened up the Members-Only Stores...
Also figured out what to do with the extra App Points I had.
Put 'em into decreasing the cost of Summoning from the compendium and Skill Mutation.
Of course, now I've still got some App Points left and I might just increase my Stock a bit (at 14 right now).
Yeah, I hadn't been messing with the advanced options much during my playthrough, but I got inspired one day and started messing around with options.
Funny enough, I ended up creating a Rangda with Debilitate since I had searched for creating Demons with the ability and marked it to also match up demons in the compendium.
(Not sure how the Skill searching works exactly; I guess it keeps track of skills you've used/used against you?)
Neat stuff since I forgot about fusing Alice earlier.
(Hooray for Snow Day!)
Also opened up the Members-Only Stores...
EVERYTHING IS SO EXPENSIVE
Also figured out what to do with the extra App Points I had.
Put 'em into decreasing the cost of Summoning from the compendium and Skill Mutation.
Of course, now I've still got some App Points left and I might just increase my Stock a bit (at 14 right now).
Yeah, I hadn't been messing with the advanced options much during my playthrough, but I got inspired one day and started messing around with options.
Funny enough, I ended up creating a Rangda with Debilitate since I had searched for creating Demons with the ability and marked it to also match up demons in the compendium.
(Not sure how the Skill searching works exactly; I guess it keeps track of skills you've used/used against you?)
Neat stuff since I forgot about fusing Alice earlier.
NeonZ
Member
The point where Martheron dropped SMT4 is kind of aimless. You're just searching for clues regarding the Black Samurai and there isn't any kind of immediate goal aside from random quests to advance through the city. After finally finding the Black Samurai, the narrative gets focused again until the end game (or alignment lock, if you go neutral, where things come to a halt again).
The main party and the Vision Quest characters were nice, but every enemy besides Finnegan in Soul Hackers were extremely generic. I'd say that Azazel has more of a personality in SMT4 than in Soul Hackers, in spite of being the main antagonist during most of Soul Hackers story and only a challenge quest boss in SMTIV.
Soul Hackers story also just "ends" in a way even worse than any of SMTIV's endings. I mean
The main party and the Vision Quest characters were nice, but every enemy besides Finnegan in Soul Hackers were extremely generic. I'd say that Azazel has more of a personality in SMT4 than in Soul Hackers, in spite of being the main antagonist during most of Soul Hackers story and only a challenge quest boss in SMTIV.
Soul Hackers story also just "ends" in a way even worse than any of SMTIV's endings. I mean
there's this whole build up for the Phantom Society, and yet the game basically ends in a side-quest incident and the whole Phantom Society plot is left completely unfinished.
Blue Submarine No. 6
Member
I am fried... I just spent 5 hours looking for a quest I could do to bump me from second to first place in the end Hunter tourney... My quest list was complete (everything done or closed), and they had nothing more for me at any of the association bars... I had to run around Tokyo trying to figure out what to do next and I was just flying around and walking through every region, revisiting every locaction until I finally stumbled on some hunter chick in Ginza who wanted a picture of a shop front of all things! Once I had the quest it took me three minutes to fulfill it and BAMM! I was ranked No. 1... but what a giant PITA that was! And now I have to go pick up my Bravely Default CE - I'll finish this later.
I recommend you finish this first. You did the big part and only 4 or 5 hours remain at most.
Blue Submarine No. 6
Member
Oh ya, I fully intend to finish SMTIV before I start playing Bravely Default (played the Demo of that thoroughly when it was released)... I've killed
Jonathan/God's Chariot
Ichigaya
literally for Spite, whom I presume will be Walter
My last save is sitting at 110 HRS... whew!
edit: completed my first (and likely only) run-through... got the Neutral path finish and ended up having played for 113h40m, 24 hours of which was spent in the Cathedral of Shadows playing with demon fusions... whew!
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I don't believe they do, but I could be wrong.
This varies by the boss. Generally, no, but use your instincts.
zero shift
Banned
Man, replaying SMTIV is incredible. There were so many quests I missed. It's like an entire new playthrough.
Anyway now that the game has been out for some months were would you guys rank it amongst the franchise?
I'm thinking-
Core:
SMTIII
SMTIV
SMTII
SMTI (haven't played much of this one though)
All:
SMTIII
SMTIV
Persona 4
Persona 3: FES
SMTII
SMTDS:SH
SMTI
Anyway now that the game has been out for some months were would you guys rank it amongst the franchise?
I'm thinking-
Core:
SMTIII
SMTIV
SMTII
SMTI (haven't played much of this one though)
All:
SMTIII
SMTIV
Persona 4
Persona 3: FES
SMTII
SMTDS:SH
SMTI
cj_iwakura
Member
Are we including spin-offs? Ooo boy.
III, IV, I, II for core.
Overall,
III, P2: EP, SH, IV, whatever else is in the franchise. I'd put Raidou 1 high up there. Probably above P3 and P4 even.
This what it would look like if I include the spin off:
SMTII
SMTIII
SMTIV
SMTI
SMT if...
SMT Devil Summoner
DS Soul Hackers
SMT Strange Journey
Raidou 2
Raidou
Persona 2 (IS & EP)
Majin Tensei 2
Persona 3
zero shift
Banned
Wow people here don't like Persona 3 and 4 as much as GAF general.
I agree that the games are very overrated.
buddha0991
Member
Top 5:
Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers
Persona 4 (Golden? Doesn't matter)
Persona 2 Innocent Sin just got slightly kicked off becuase that PSP version soured on me a little bit
Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers
Persona 4 (Golden? Doesn't matter)
Persona 2 Innocent Sin just got slightly kicked off becuase that PSP version soured on me a little bit
zero shift
Banned
At the end of the
why is Johnathan shocked by him being
desert wasteland Tokyo stage when you inform Akira that you've defeated Pluto
Akira of the Eastern Kingdom of Makato?
NeonZ
Member
"Aquila" was the founder of the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado. Looking at Akira there, it becomes pretty obvious that "Aquila" is just a corruption of "Akira".
Also, if you read the stone tablet in the beginning of the game, the official history hid that Aquila was one of the "unclean" ones that had come from Tokyo, so that adds another surprising element. It just mentioned that he fought against them and forced them back to underground when they attempted to escape to the surface.
Really, Aquila/Akira in the main timeline seems pretty evil. He also was the one who created Mikado's class system.
Also, if you read the stone tablet in the beginning of the game, the official history hid that Aquila was one of the "unclean" ones that had come from Tokyo, so that adds another surprising element. It just mentioned that he fought against them and forced them back to underground when they attempted to escape to the surface.
Really, Aquila/Akira in the main timeline seems pretty evil. He also was the one who created Mikado's class system.
Aquila <-> Akira.
And not only that. If you look closely to some cities/villages in the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado, they have similar names to actual places related to Tokyo:
- Shene Duke <-> Shinjuku
- Cebouia <-> Shibuya
- Kiccigiorgi <-> Kichijoji
- Conntow <-> Kanto
God planned to destroy Tokyo, build the new kingdom on the destroyed city and populate it with the chosen humans(that's Blasted Tokyo). That plan has been stopped by Masakado, so the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado in the actual world is built on top of the ceiling where the missiles left the cavities.
And not only that. If you look closely to some cities/villages in the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado, they have similar names to actual places related to Tokyo:
- Shene Duke <-> Shinjuku
- Cebouia <-> Shibuya
- Kiccigiorgi <-> Kichijoji
- Conntow <-> Kanto
God planned to destroy Tokyo, build the new kingdom on the destroyed city and populate it with the chosen humans(that's Blasted Tokyo). That plan has been stopped by Masakado, so the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado in the actual world is built on top of the ceiling where the missiles left the cavities.
I hear ya though. P3P did the same for me...
zero shift
Banned
So the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado
Why not just call Akira
Huh? Cavities are holes. The Eastern Kingdom of Mikado is anything but that.
and Tokyo are only 25 years old? Thus all of the non-young people in the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado are in on the farce. It's basically an extreme version of the film "The Village".
Why not just call Akira
Aquila then to avoid confusion. Or at least do something in the end where he says, "I, Akira Aquila, will lead my people!" or some shit. That's too confusing.
Huh? Cavities are holes. The Eastern Kingdom of Mikado is anything but that.
No, time in Tokyo passed slower compared to the rest of the world. 25 years was 1500 in the outside world. And why do you think there were so many perfectly round lakes in Mikado? They were craters that filled up with water later on.
Also, try saying Aquilia and Akira out loud. Aquilia is the corruption of Akira, just like all the other names.
Also, try saying Aquilia and Akira out loud. Aquilia is the corruption of Akira, just like all the other names.
Time passes a lot faster in the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado compared to Tokyo. 25 years in Tokyo are equivalent to 1500 years in the EKoM.
God's wrath happened in Tokyo 25 years ago. Masakado stopped it, so the EKoM has been built on top of the ceiling and 1500 years has passed since then.
God's wrath happened in Tokyo 25 years ago. Masakado stopped it, so the EKoM has been built on top of the ceiling and 1500 years has passed since then.
Jonathan says clearly when you arrive in Blasted Tokyo that the lakes in the EKoM have once been cavities such as the ones in Blasted Tokyo.
He had to deform his name and Tokyo's areas' names to not piss off God.
zero shift
Banned
Is there any point in the game that displays that time passes at different speeds between the two areas? Also how exactly does the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado built
God?
Sorry to sound clueless but it doesn't seem like the game explains this unless I missed it (probably did).
on top of Tokyo?
Sorry to sound clueless but it doesn't seem like the game explains this unless I missed it (probably did).
NeonZ
Member
There's a nameless NPC Samurai that you can talk with in Mikado castle that mentions it if you go back to talk with him after opening the way to Tokyo. After the Samurai returned from a mission in Tokyo, his son was older than he should have been. It is something strangely ignored for an element that should be fairly obvious with so many samurai going there though. I think he's the only npc that talks about that.
It's due to the ceiling. This part is only explained in the main story if you go neutral route, but you can get some limited information from npcs in the other ones.
Basically, Masakado, a Tokyo deity, transformed his physical body into a barrier covering Tokyo to block the nuclear attack. That didn't happen in the desert Tokyo world, which is why Tokyo there is completely devastated.
If you talk to NPCs throughout Tokyo and Mikado (their speech changes every time a major story event happens), it made clear that time in Tokyo flows much slower than in the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado.
Regarding how exactly the EKoM has been built, everything suggests that when Akira climbed the ceiling (which is Maskado, the deity protector of Tokyo) searching for his his older sister, who was taken away from him by the angels, built the EKoM. Hence the deformed names he used from his old home.
Regarding how exactly the EKoM has been built, everything suggests that when Akira climbed the ceiling (which is Maskado, the deity protector of Tokyo) searching for his his older sister, who was taken away from him by the angels, built the EKoM. Hence the deformed names he used from his old home.
SMT4's story is probably my favorite of the entire series because it's not handed to you. You need to work and put the pieces together to figure out what happened.
BTW, which endings did you get? Because unless you have all the 3 endings (especially Neutral) you can't figure out many of the story's details.
Splash Wave
Member
Err, I just realized that one of my other demons already had Tetrakarn--does that change your answer? Dantalian has so many resistances....
zero shift
Banned
The thing I find interesting about the game is how every leader
all of the leaders are complete dicks. This was obvious the first playthrough but it is made even more obvious the second playthrough as you find little touches.
I received only Chaos. I am currently working on Order but I'm not sure how close I am to that path.
If true that is unfortunately where I was transported to. I didn't do EVERYTHING perfectly order but about 95% of the things.
with the sole exception of the humble tribe leader Akira and Napoleon Akiirparte
I received only Chaos. I am currently working on Order but I'm not sure how close I am to that path.
While I did almost everything completely order, including the trial path test in the palace, IIRC someone said that when you leave the desert wasteland of the EKoM you are transported to somewhere else besides the Tokyo that is destroyed and ran by demons.
I would still pick Makami for Null Mind. That's one of the skills that can mutate to Null Nerve or even better Luster Candy/Debilitate.
Dantalian has many resistances but also a weakness that you need to cover whereas Makami desn't have any, which frees at least a slot for more useful skill.
Also Makami has a better survivability thanks to his higher HP.
You will go there no matter what. You'll see after beating Kanji if you're able to go Law, but TBH going Law is a lot easier than Chaos or Neutral. So don't worry.
zero shift
Banned
I imagine going Neutral is very difficult to balance.
Without knowing what the point values for the alignment questions are in advance, yeah. The fact that I was able to find the right balance on my first run without following a guide to tell me how much each was worth toward whatever side was pretty much pure luck. The margin for error in avoiding the minimum value needed for getting Chaos (negative points) or Law (positive points) instead is rather slim, and can be ruined by just one wrong answer.
Man, I was so happy that I stumbled into Neutral the first time. Not having to worry about balance for subsequent playthroughs was awesome.
Splash Wave
Member
Can anyone tell me how to fuse Power? I'm trying to make a Frost Ace. Note: I don't have Principality registered in my Compendium.
Splash Wave
Member
Holy shit, thanks! This never occurred to me.
Splash Wave
Member
Damn, do I even want Frost Ace? Fusion is expensive, and I'm not sure he's much better than Black Frost (who, unfortunately, has shit MP).
InsaneElite
Member
Midgame spoilers below:
Just found out you can go back to Reverse Hills after the alignment split (but before you go to the alternate Tokyos) and rescue the kids there. Love all of the little stuff in this game.
zero shift
Banned
I had Frost Ace. Being honest as long as you do quests and nab every relic money is not a problem in the game. His fire and ice repel are very useful especially during a certain boss battle. However if you want to get him because you are expecting something really unique from him compared to just scouting a random demon and the fire and ice repel don't do it for you then you will be disappointed.
Wait what?! It's crazy that there are all of these hidden quests in this game.
Yeah,
I went back to Tayama's Tower after getting back to normal Tokyo and got the keys back for the Reverse Hills.
Funny enough, I went back into the tower and the samurai dude gave me a bunch of items for the National Defense Divinities, so you can use them for fusion I guess? I accidentally skipped most of his text.
Funny enough, I went back into the tower and the samurai dude gave me a bunch of items for the National Defense Divinities, so you can use them for fusion I guess? I accidentally skipped most of his text.