Shocking News: the Nintendo DS runs Windows 95 (mini Pana-review) ;)

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Got the DS yesterday, I let it charge fully and then I started playing.

GBA games look wonderful: I tried Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga. Funny fact is that the Nintendo DS starts with the GameBoy Player logo when you play GBA games :) (edit: this is only for this particular game... sorry, I have now tried Yoshi's Island...wow... it looks nice :)).

The configuration menu is easy to use (I set the DS in Manual mode, so that the menu always comes up when I boot the unit) and quite intuitive: a barren, but very functional and usable GUI.

On to the Windows 95 point: anything you do basically triggers a reboot. The concept of having to reboot a gaming console even once after a setting has been changed is something I feel uneasy with... it feels weird... new... PC like hehe.

Turn the system on for the first time... set something... then it needs to reboot.

Start the DS, go in the Settings menu and once you have set what you wanted to set... your only option is to quit out of it which means that the machine will shut down and you will have to power it back one (which is equal to rebooting the unit).

Enter Picto-chat. Do you want to quit and get back to the system menu ? Reboot the DS.

It feels like every single entry in the basic Menu when you boot the DS is a full application which takes control of the DS and does not allow the system to go back to the standard root menu.

PSP's XMB GUI should allow for a bit more console-like multi-media functionality: going from movies to pictures to music and then you can change settings and then play a game... all without having to reboot the machine every time you go from one functionality to another one (from playing a song on the Memory Stick to watching some pictures on the Memory Stick).

I like the Alarm Clock function: a very neat thing for the DS to have. Maybe one day they will allow you to put custom songs in the DS's main RAM and let the system stay in sleep mode until the alarm has to go off: this way the RAM would still be refreshed and it would hold the song which could be played when the alarm has to go off (the DS should be able to stay on for quite a long time while staying in Sleep-mode with the screens' back-light shut off or the screens compleetely shut-off).

I like also the fact that I can shut the back-light off and use the system with standard lighting in the house or using sunlight when I am outside: the colors are not as good as when the back-light is on, but they are not too horrible either.

The system looks nice and carefully designed: a good purchase if you have skipped the GBA SP.

The system is a bit heavvier than the GBA... I should have expected it, but while I was playing Super Mario 64 DS in bed last night (after I finally got the DS back from my girlfriend's cute hands [note: she "did not want" the DS ;)] :)) my hands were getting cramps.

Does the lack of bi-linear filtering for the textures show in the game on the screen, in motion... ?

It does. I kinda wish that Nintendo ate a bit more of their DS profit margin and decided to push towards texture filtering. Texture filtering is now assumed to be there and to be free and easily implementable, but Nintendo obviously wanted to keep things under a certain budget and yet they wanted better than Nintendo 64's performance. Removing texture filtering is one of the first things you go towards. Its impact on the GPU's bandwidth is clear. You need bigger caches on the GPU to support the 4x increase in texture read bandwidth (bi-linear filtering "requires" blending 4 texels) and then you need to enhance the Texture Management Units (or TMUs) in each of the pixel pipelines with basically a 4x wider data-path and with the necessary extra-logic to perform texture filtering.

The screen resolution and pixel density did what I was expecting: edge and texture aliasing is not very high thanks to pixels being relatively small.

Super Mario 64 DS shows a VERY smooth frame-rate and a quite good draw-distance which is refreshing to see in a handheld: characters have more polygons in general and the worlds do look as good as you expected them to (including the water).

Why do people keep frowning upon the texture filtering issue ? Because we are not accustomed to point-sampled/blocky textures any longer (we do not play unfiltered PSOne and Saturn games as frequently as we did in 1997-1998). I kept myself away from 3D GBA games and all my PSOne games I play on PlayStation 2 use the texture-filtering/texture-smoothing option enabled except a very small percentage of them (like Wipeout 1 and Wipeout 2097, but I have not played them in a while). I play my Saturn, but not as much as I used to play my PSOne back in the 32-bits generation.

It does not help that my eyes and my brain remember Super Mario 64 with texture filtering being used.

I sort of became accustomed to having bi-linear texture filtering in all 3D games I played, so accustomed that at first it is a bit shocking... not because the game looks like crap... it is more like reality not making sense for a second and having to re-train my eyes and my brain to accept complete lack of texture filtering.

Does the lack of texture filtering hinder game-play ? No.

Is shimmering ultra ugly then ? No, probably they are using mip-mapping (texture filtering and mip-mapping are not two faces of the same proverbial medal).

The mini-games are very very addictive, even the standard ones: my girlfriend could not stop playing that mini-game in which you have to find the face of the "wanted" character level after level... very very addictive :).

I wanted to say something about the controls: you can get accustomed to using the D-Pad (it is not that bad for Super Mario 64 DS, really) and if I have to tell you the truth the biggest problem is the buttom placement which was just perfect on the N64 controller, but cannot be replicated exactly on the DS (no Z-trigger, etc...). Still I was able in an hour or so to get 8 stars, free Mario and enjoy my first go at the game :).
The issue that annoyed me the most, using the D-Pad, is that you have to touch the screen with your fingers to move the camera or you only have the L-button to center the camera behind your character: I am not too comfortable with the idea of touching the screen with my bare fingers as I do not want to start adding a bit of skin grease here and there (no matter how much you wash your hands [instead, it can get worse if you wash them with soap way too much] they will still have some kind of grease on them).

The Nintendo DS's D-Pad has been considerably improoved over the GBA's D-Pad IMHO and is better than the GameCube controller's D-Pad as well. Having to press Y to run makes it a bit more challenging to time it with jumps, jumps+kicks, etc..., but thismeans getting 9-9.4 in controls rather than a 10.

I did not want to leave Nintendo DS's sound capabilities aside: music and sound effects are very top notch (except for the "Bwah-bwah-bwah" laughter Bowser does which sounds a tiny bit off from what I remembered, but maybe it was like that in the original Super Mario 64 too).

I have to give credit to Nintendo for the stereo speakers they chose for the DS: they sound quite nice and they seem to also use some form of simulated surround sound processing (if enabled in agmes, but it might only be me and nothing special is really done... it might be me... hehe, as I did not expect the system to sound this nice after the speaker solution they used for the GBA) using the stereo speakers and the fact that your head does not move too much, when you are playing games on the DS, in relation to the unit.

Super Mario 64 DS is the only game I got with the DS: the other GBA games we have will keep it good company. I was not too interested in any of the other launch titles.

Funny thing: the screen-shot of Rayman DS in the back of the Nintendo DS box is still the same one Ubisoft stole from a website (they probably gave credits, paid some money by now I would think).

The Nintendo DS has potential as a system and I think Nintendo should push it: if they do not it is a real crime as there are a lot of good games that can be made for this platform.
 
Don't you understand? He's Panajev2001a. He's so famous that he's allowed his own impressions thread.
 
Bog said:
Don't you understand? He's Panajev2001a. He's so famous that he's allowed his own impressions thread.

:(.


I...


well...

I thought it would get horribly unnoticed in that thread which now is a bit too long, but if mods want to merge the two threads... please go for it and apologies for the extra noise.

sad-baby.jpg
 
Doom_Bringer said:
can't you see the big official sticky thread on the top?

I repeat... I am sorry... I was a bit excited and I thought this post would get unnoticed in the sea of posts in that giant thread.
 
Panajev2001a said:
I repeat... I am sorry... I was a bit excited and I thought this post would get unnoticed in the sea of posts in that giant thread.


relax, I was kidding. you don't have to say sorry :lol
 
Doom_Bringer said:
relax, I was kidding. you don't have to sorry :lol

Well, some people get pissed by things like this and I did not want to piss anyone off :): especially with the comment that suggested that I felt like a Snob V.I.P. which is not how I am.
 
Does lack of bi-linear filtering for texture shows in the game on the screen, in motion... ?

It does. I kinda wish that Nintendo ate a bit more of their DS profit margin and decided to push towards texture filtering. Texture filtering is now assumed to be there and to be free and easily implementable
From the videos I've seen, frankly, I was not really annoyed by the lack of texture filtering as much as I was by the apparent small shakiness of the 3D graphics. By that I don't mean the lack of mip maping or texture filtering or abundant aliasing - but just that 3D graphics looked a bit unstable, like if the textures or polygons shift a pixel or two here and there in motion. Quite apparent in Mario direct feed videos, and even more apparent in Asphal GT videos. Is this some kind of video artifacting or is that really present on the DS?
 
Marconelly said:
From the videos I've seen, frankly, I was not really annoyed by the lack of texture filtering as much as I was by the apparent small shakiness of the 3D graphics. By that I don't mean the lack of mip maping or texture filtering or abundant aliasing - but just that 3D graphics looked a bit unstable, like if the textures or polygons shift a pixel or two here and there in motion. Quite apparent in Mario direct feed videos, and even more apparent in Asphal GT videos. Is this some kind of video artifacting or is that really present on the DS?

I did not notice that kind of shakiness: I noticed some objects disappearing when you moved far enough, but that was LOD management.

I think you might have seen video-compression related artifacts.
 
Nice impressions. Nintendo has never been ones for making flashy graphics. Even on the Gamecube most of their games just get the job done. I get that feeling with the DS hardware also.

and yes that Wanted minigame is awesome. Your girlfriend has good taste in games :)
 
Thanks for the impressions Pana, they do a great job of giving a nice indepth and techy look on the DS. I must say my greatest worry for the DS were shimmering issues present in the videos, it's one thing I cannot stand for the life of me. Whether it be on a game, a DVD, or a TV show.. it just completely takes me out of whatever I'm enjoying. Lack of texture filtering and low end graphics hardly bother me one bit. It's nice to know that's not the case with the DS.

Blech, let me stop rambling. Awesome impressions, worthy of their own thread.
 
Panajev2001a said:
GBA games look wonderful: I tried Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga. Funny fact is that the Nintendo DS starts with the GameBoy Player logo when you play GBA games :)

I don't think that's a DS related thing, because the GameBoy Player logo shows up on GBA SP when I start Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga.
 
Naked Snake said:
I don't think that's a DS related thing, because the GameBoy Player logo shows up on GBA SP when you I start Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga.

Whoops ;).

Does not that game have some special GameBoy Player optimization or something ?
 
DS is gonna be very popular with girls, that's like the 10th person so far saying that his wife/girlfriend loved the DS.
 
I did not notice that kind of shakiness: I noticed some objects disappearing when you moved far enough, but that was LOD management.

I think you might have seen video-compression related artifacts.
Could be. It looked like some kind of texture or polygon positioning imprecision or something. I did not notice it in Feel The Magic videos, though, but that game doesn't use many textures.

Did you notice if the screens update in interlaced mode (like GBA) or progressive?
 
Panajev2001a said:
Whoops ;).

Does not that game have some special GameBoy Player optimization or something ?

Yes, you can enable the controller rumble when playing on the GBP.

Also, nice impressions. I'm really jealous of people who are able to pick up a DS right now--I was completely sold on it when I finally tried it out in the store. I think that a year from now we will really see some cool stuff being done with the various features.
 
mumu said:
DS is gonna be very popular with girls, that's like the 10th person so far saying that his wife/girlfriend loved the DS.

Loved it ? I had a hard time getting to play the DS at all (she looks too cute when she plays it to just take it away from her hands) :lol.
 
Marconelly said:
Could be. It looked like some kind of texture or polygon positioning imprecision or something. I did not notice it in Feel The Magic videos, though, but that game doesn't use many textures.

Did you notice if the screens update in interlaced mode (like GBA) or progressive?

Uhm... I never noticed the GBA using an interlaced update: when you programmed you did not assume it even... but I heard this before.

The DS screen looks quite nice, but I would not be able to tell you if the DS updates in interlaced or progressive mode: A/V buffs like Klee might though.
 
mumu said:
DS is gonna be very popular with girls, that's like the 10th person so far saying that his wife/girlfriend loved the DS.

well I can be the first to say my wife doesn't like it. Though, to be fair, she's pregnant and doesn't like much of anything right now. :/
 
bune duggy said:
Though, to be fair, she's pregnant and doesn't like much of anything right now. :/

Well, congratulations to the both of you :).

At least put the DS next to her playing Yoshi's Island or some other GBA game with good music as the speakers of the system are quite nice (I have updated my impressions in this thread).
 
The DS screen looks quite nice, but I would not be able to tell you if the DS updates in interlaced or progressive mode: A/V buffs like Klee might though.

I should be getting mine on Friday (couldn't resist so paid over the odds at my local importer).

I notice the interlace effectson GBASP and my old Clie, so it should be obvious. Doesn't really matter though.
 
Amir0x said:
itz going to be a chick magnet am i rite? :lol

LOL.

I think PSP will be a chick-magnet also ;) (*Panajev notices his girlfriend sensing this line being written and readying her axe... "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I'LL BE GOOOOOOD"): both systems have been desinged with the intention of expanding the market and capturing more female gamers is one of the strategies both players have choosen to follow.
 
mrklaw said:
I should be getting mine on Friday (couldn't resist so paid over the odds at my local importer).

I notice the interlace effectson GBASP and my old Clie, so it should be obvious. Doesn't really matter though.

Well it kinda does matter: it is just one more technical information about the unit and the more informations we have, the better :).
 
what GBA games are interlaced? the only games I can think of that were interlaced are the NES ones from Animal Crossing and the E-reader (I think), and those were only done so to fit the full NES screen on the smaller vertical resolution.

The screen isn't interlaced, so I am wondering why other games (where the game is programmed to the GBA rez) would be programmed interlaced (though technically pseudo interlaced as you wouldn't update different fields of the same frame on the unit.. no reason to).
 
Panajev2001a said:
...

Turn the system on for the first time... set something... then it needs to reboot.

Start the DS, go in the Settings menu and once you have set what you wanted to set... your only option is to quit out of it which means that the machine will shut down and you will have to power it back one (which is equal to rebooting the unit).

Enter Picto-chat. Do you want to quit and get back to the system menu ? Reboot the DS.

It feels like every single entry in the basic Menu when you boot the DS is a full application which takes control of the DS and does not allow the system to go back to the standard root menu.

...
It is better this way. It encourages discipline.
 
borghe said:
The screen isn't interlaced

I heard conflicting reports about this... if games were interlaced, but the screen were not... the GBA would need a line doubler and I do not know if it has one.
 
After a couple of days playing, I am now back to hating it. Seriously, 25 minutes of Mario DS is AGONY. It's a bit too wide, too heavy and too awkward to control without hand spasms. Metroid's control scheme is actually nicer, since you can genuinely use the thumb thing to steer, look and even jump. So you never have to mash the buttons on the right. But sadly, I think for most games it's going to be a carpal-lawsuit-nightmare.


Props on the speakers, the touch screen and even the graphics, but at the end of the day, it's incredibly uncomfortable to use. And WTF with my DS alarm not going off this morning?
 
Stinkles said:
And WTF with my DS alarm not going off this morning?

You need to set it and also turn it on (two separate actions) and then leave the speakers' volume set to high: I tried it this morning and it worked (at first it was not working, but then I realized I left the volume set to the minimum value/off).
 
Stinkles said:
After a couple of days playing, I am now back to hating it. Seriously, 25 minutes of Mario DS is AGONY. It's a bit too wide, too heavy and too awkward to control without hand spasms. Metroid's control scheme is actually nicer, since you can genuinely use the thumb thing to steer, look and even jump. So you never have to mash the buttons on the right. But sadly, I think for most games it's going to be a carpal-lawsuit-nightmare.


Props on the speakers, the touch screen and even the graphics, but at the end of the day, it's incredibly uncomfortable to use. And WTF with my DS alarm not going off this morning?

This is were game design is going to be paramount. As interesting as Mario DS is, it isn't really the right kind of game. MP:H really should've been the big launch title.
 
So how comfortable is this to use for long periods? If I get one it'll only be to play GBA games on a better screen with better speakers (And a headphone jack?@?). I'm all on board for a Super GBA SP.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
So how comfortable is this to use for long periods? If I get one it'll only be to play GBA games on a better screen with better speakers (And a headphone jack?@?). I'm all on board for a Super GBA SP.

It is pretty comfortable for GBA games as long as you do not use it in weird positions: the advice is to have the GBA games displayed on the top screen which looks a little bit better than the bottom one in terms of colors.

Edit: yes, it has a headphone jack, but watch out for the connector... if it does not fully plug in all the way you will still hear sound coming out of the speakers.
 
Stinkles said:
And WTF with my DS alarm not going off this morning?

Can someone explain the alarm to me further? How loud is it? My tendency to turn off my alarm in my sleep is kind of getting worse, and if I could justify it as a backup alarm clock too, I could maybe pull it off as a birthday gift.
 
Memles said:
Can someone explain the alarm to me further? How loud is it? My tendency to turn off my alarm in my sleep is kind of getting worse, and if I could justify it as a backup alarm clock too, I could maybe pull it off as a birthday gift.

It is not too loud, but I would say loud and distinguishable enough to work if you do not keep it too far.
 
Damn PANA! You must really like the DS. That was a good read even with your Sony PSP flashing next to it.

Anyway you are one person I was really waiting to hear from about the DS :)
 
naz said:
Damn PANA! You must really like the DS. That was a good read even with your Sony PSP flashing next to it.

Anyway you are one person I was really waiting to hear from about the DS :)

It was all lies designed to get people to buy into DS and be disappointed, causing backlash and decreasing DS sales as everyone sells it used and buys a PSP.
 
Great impression Pana. Read it about 2 hours ago.. didn't have time to reply. I really am digging the GBA games look stellar comments - funny really how NON of the editorials I've read by professional gaming sites have commented much about how good it supposedly looks.

I'm actually quite suprirsed that you're liking the DS as much as you are.. looking good. I'm the same as you are with regards to launch titles - hopefully the coming months will yield great DS titles - if nothing... $150 isn't that much to pay for a suped up GBASP
 
Son of Godzilla said:
It was all lies designed to get people to buy into DS and be disappointed, causing backlash and decreasing DS sales as everyone sells it used and buys a PSP.

O_o you know the conspiracy nut in me believes this news
 
Mario is quite good, but my favorite part is the GBA games. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance in particular looks gorgeous on TV mode. Mega Man Zero also looks fantastic. All the GBA games just look much clearer and crisper.
 
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