It's interesting that there's a T&L engine in it. That explains fast framerates in games despite slow CPUs. I guess I'll have to see the unit in person to see if that shaky feel is really there. That's one thing that gives it's graphics a definite throwback to PSX times (at least in videos)The DS has 3D hardware perspective correct texture mapped rasterization (but with no filtering) and even a T&L engine supporting four lights. The shakiness in some games comes from the fact that all math (including that done by the T&L engine) is fixed point, there is no fpu.
You _can_ get fixed point 3d to look smooth and non-shaky (speaking generally here, I don't have DS development experience) but it takes skill to manage the bits of precision well enough to avoid any shaking.
The screen hardware itself is interlaced. Since it's an LCD, it does not flicker like interlaced TV, but the lines update in the interlaced fashion.what GBA games are interlaced? the only games I can think of that were interlaced are the NES ones from Animal Crossing and the E-reader (I think), and those were only done so to fit the full NES screen on the smaller vertical resolution.
The screen isn't interlaced, so I am wondering why other games (where the game is programmed to the GBA rez) would be programmed interlaced (though technically pseudo interlaced as you wouldn't update different fields of the same frame on the unit.. no reason to).
snapty00 said:The DS graphics are a mixed bag.
One the one hand, it seems to be pushing a lot of polygons, relative to Nintendo 64, anyway.
But the textures really do look absolutely HORRIBLE. I swear, they really are straight out of a PSX. It needs to be filtered to some degree.
Also, the polygons don't have the stability that ones on Nintendo 64 had. With or without being pixelized, the polygons show many more seams and don't seem "as one" as those on Nintendo 64 did. Nintendo 64 produced rock-solid polygons in comparison.
PS1 had more problems than what I'm describing, most annoying being texture warping due to lack of perspective correction. The possible problem I'm referring to is definitely more subtle than warping.Is this the same "shakiness" that afflicts many Saturn and PSOne games, and to a certain degree, make me slightly dizzy?
Yes, that is what I'm talking about.Also, the polygons don't have the stability that ones on Nintendo 64 had. With or without being pixelized, the polygons show many more seams and don't seem "as one" as those on Nintendo 64 did. Nintendo 64 produced rock-solid polygons in comparison.
Marconelly said:PS1 had more problems than what I'm describing, most annoying being texture warping due to lack of perspective correction. The possible problem I'm referring to is definitely more subtle than warping.
Marconelly said:This could be a DS tech info thread if we can muster some more data.
I have found some new info at Beyond 3D
Ector:
It's interesting that there's a T&L engine in it. That explains fast framerates in games despite slow CPUs. I guess I'll have to see the unit in person to see if that shaky feel is really there. That's one thing that gives it's graphics a definite throwback to PSX times (at least in videos)
snapty00 said:Also, the polygons don't have the stability that ones on Nintendo 64 had. With or without being pixelized, the polygons show many more seams and don't seem "as one" as those on Nintendo 64 did. Nintendo 64 produced rock-solid polygons in comparison.
Not sure where you heard that, but a developer on the IGNboards categorically denies that.The important thing is that at least they have perspective corrected texturing
snapty00 said:Not sure where you heard that, but a developer on the IGNboards categorically denies that.
Marconelly said:Well, games look like they have perspective corrected textures (at least SM64 does, that's the one I've been mostly watching videos of). Can you post what that developer said?
Also, when I look at N64 SM64 videos, that polygon stability is definitely there, that lead me to believe it had FP math capability. I wish there were some good quality DS videos around.
God's Hand said:As fucked up as this sounds, you've convinced me to buy a DS.
Z-buffering + perspective corrected textures area step forward from what PSOne and Saturn could do (even though perspective correction issues were not as bad in later PSOne titles).
Panajev2001a said:Finally this hit the news... but there is more hidden.
Fixed-point math T&L unit is an interesting fact: who knows if they salvaged the RSP (it was not a bad Vector processor, really) or if they went with a newer design...
The important thing is that at least they have perspective corrected texturing and the performance of the rasterizing unit is not as limited by RAM bandwidth and latency as it was on the N64 where awful RAM latency meant that tons of things took much longer than they neded (Z-buffering was supposed to be free, but it caused a fill-rate penalty).
I expect other issues, such as the famous 4 KB texture buffer limit of the RDP not to be present.
Z-buffering + perspective corrected textures area step forward from what PSOne and Saturn could do (even though perspective correction issues were not as bad in later PSOne titles).
Argyle said:So the textures are perspective correct? I thought I saw some jitter near the near clip plane that implied they weren't perspective correct, or maybe the clipping algorithm is a bit wonky?
Is this confirmed anywhere?
Edit: OK, I can read (just read more of the thread)...I guess it's fixed point imprecision that's causing the jitter, perhaps?
ourumov said:Interesting. So the two CPUs are 100% free when it comes to T&L ????
BTW, Who desgined the RSP ? I don't think it was MIPS, was Sylicon Graphics ?
ourumov said:Still...the ARM9 features a vector unit right ?
Kinda surprised about DS after reading this thread. Last question Pana: ARM9 is single issue or double issue ?
naz said:thanks for this thread Pana good source of info![]()
Panajev2001a said:Thank you and all the other posters who partecipated in a civil discussion.
SPILL IT!Buggy Loop said:Panananana, MSN
Btw, You told me some more cool tidbits about DS' hardware that you havent said here yet, what's stopping you? It will leak eventually by someone else![]()
Buggy Loop said:Panananana, MSN
Btw, You told me some more cool tidbits about DS' hardware that you havent said here yet, what's stopping you? It will leak eventually by someone else![]()
Panajev2001a said:I have not said anything.
Buggy Loop said:Right..
Hope you didnt send Jilleyn to assasinate me!!![]()