Bernd Lauert
Banned
Why is it bad? Devs still get their money, just via different means.
Shuhei Yoshida: "We believe in the premium release of a title" before subscriptions
- Thread starter Pelta88
- Start date
Punished Miku
Banned
I was being genuine. Why are people frightened that other people may or may not buy games? The literal implication here is that they want other people to subsidize their extravagant games that are so expensive they're barely teetering on the edge of practicality as is. This is literally what they are implying.
How is that a meme, or not genuine? They worry about games deteriorating in quality. They worry about people not buying games. This means they literally want other people to spend more money to subsidize their extremely expensive graphical showpiece games. I'm just repeating their openly stated position.
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
No, no, no. Let's go back to what I quoted. Is that going to be a new meme, until it's not?
And this whole thread was based on Shu's/Sony's comments on their business model, yet some have to come in here and do the very thing. Round and round we go!
Last edited:
Punished Miku
Banned
I mean ... I don't know lol? I doubt it. We're all just responding to the guy that's very worried that other people may not buy games. There's literally only one reason to worry about that.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I gotcha, lol. I just know that once Hellblade 2 is shown more and launches, that bloated graphical showpiece game is going to be worn like a badge of honor by the usual ardent.
Punished Miku
Banned
No one that will be playing Hellblade 2 on gamepass is claiming that gamepass can't fund games.I gotcha, lol. I just know that once Hellblade 2 is shown more and launches, that bloated graphical showpiece game is going to be worn like a badge of honor by the usual ardent.
Opponents of sub models in this thread, Shu included, are the ones claiming that we can't allow consumers to save money. That money has to be extracted through $70 retail pricing or else big budget games can't even exist. Consumers must be forced to subsidize these games. Hellblade 2 coming out wont be proving anyone wrong except gamepass critics. I think you are searching for a gotcha that doesn't exist.
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Cool.
I am talking just about the meme, "bloated graphical showpiece games" Too late bruv, can't take it back. It's been established now in gaf history!
A meme, until it's not.
"bloated graphical showpiece games" -
Punished Miku
, circa Sept 2022
Punished Miku
Banned
I just don't know why you think I regret saying this, or what you think I am saying lol. Yes, I said it on purpose. Quote me anytime you like! I don't know if you really got my point though.Cool.
I am talking just about the meme, "bloated graphical showpiece games" Too late bruv, can't take it back. It's been established now in gaf history!
A meme, until it's not.
"bloated graphical showpiece games" -
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I never said you did.I just don't know why you think I regret saying this, or what you think I am saying lol. Yes, I said it on purpose. Quote me anytime you like! I don't know if you really got my point though.
Roxkis_ii
Banned
Aren't graphical showpiece games one of the big reasons to upgrade to a next gen console??
Punished Miku
Banned
Graphics are not top of my list. Probably 4th or 5th. If I always weighed graphics above all other considerations, I'd game on PC.
Pelta88
Member
Cool.
I am talking just about the meme, "bloated graphical showpiece games" Too late bruv, can't take it back. It's been established now in gaf history!
A meme, until it's not.
"bloated graphical showpiece games" -
Needs to be a gaf meme. Perhaps we should add it to our avatar profiles or something. Definitely the weirdest take I've heard. Hilarious and also reads like someone who Sony deeply hurt by releasing good games.
Punished Miku
Banned
Why is it a weird take? Why do I seem hurt by Sony games?
Bumblebeetuna
Member
No, I don't pay attention to random internet polls. What is this, a GAF poll?
If people weren't buying Xbox games, publishers would stop putting them on Xbox. If GamePass heavily affected game sales, publishers would stop putting games on it.
Per usual, the worry with GamePass is entirely made up and hypothetical.
Haggard
Banned
People with a brain, sure. Your own "evidence" shows that other streaming services besides NF lose those 30% of users in the first 4 weeks already.
But in general, and despite your fanatism, I hope you are right because that would simply mean that others will heavily subsidize a ton of games for me as long as GP exists.
Playing Wo-Long, Hellblade 2, Darktide, Plague Tail 2 etc for less than 10 bucks each......what`s not to love about that.
Last edited:
Roxkis_ii
Banned
You must of missed all the people upset Final fantasy 7 remake still isn't on Xbox.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Roxkis_ii
Banned
What does a Sony check have to do with anything you quoted
Oh, so everyone who doesn't release a game on Xbox is because of a Sony, and not because Xbox users don't buy games.
I gotcha.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Are you implying FF7remakePart1 isn't a moneyhat deal?
Roxkis_ii
Banned
That deal ended in December 2021, what's your excuse for afterwards?
They ported it to PC, but why not Xbox?
Why leave free money on the table if it theirs the grab? Unless there wasn't any money on the Xbox table...
Punished Miku
Banned
This is actively destroying my brain cells. Like ... come on man. You really think they funded a release of Before Crisis for Xbox but not the VII Remake? You really think they just put Diofield Chronicles on Xbox but not VII Remake? Why do you make us repeat these basic and obvious comparisons? Why do we have to debate such stupid things that are so obviously ridiculous?
Roxkis_ii
Banned
I wasn't there for those discussions but for you, I'll conceded on the FF7 point.
At the end of the day, when most of your playerbase is looking for games only dropping on gamepass, they aren't going to buy games anymore, so devs who feel like their game isn't going to work on gamepass, aren't going to be motivated to release on Xbox.
Last edited:
TheGodfather07
Member
Subscription gaming might be the way xbox is going but doesn't mean the whole industry is. Nothing even points to that happening. Even gamepass isn't growing that fast. It been around for a while and last we heard, had 25m subscribers. I think it launched in 2017 didn't it?
Others will follow if it makes financial sense. If sony could make more money with a full subscription model, than why dont they? We've seen how greedy they can be recently. They would pounce on the chance to make more money.
Others will follow if it makes financial sense. If sony could make more money with a full subscription model, than why dont they? We've seen how greedy they can be recently. They would pounce on the chance to make more money.
Last edited:
NickFire
Member
Sony's approach works well for them and the fans of their biggest games. The only downside is waiting a while to play games if you are subscription only, but even then you pay less per year than the competitor charges for day and date. That's a pretty reasonable trade off to enjoy the best 1st party games offered on any subscription service out there.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
That makes sense. I mean we all know Final Fantasy is small potatoes compared to something like Star Ocean, which they are putting on Xbox. They probably figure they can do without the sales of a niche title like Final Fantasy 7 Remake, the least popular of all FF titles. But the new Star Ocean? Even Xbox fans will buy that in droves.
MarkMe2525
Banned
Care to elaborate on the "shady things" they are doing?
Last edited:
Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
Honestly wonder if the GamePass model is sustainable. Game developlment is increasing with each new gen. How do you maintain the quality of AAA titles on a subscription service? How is a game that costs millions to produce going to be making that money back if not sold at a premium at least for a few months to a year?
It is getting to the right number of subscribers. Get to 50 million and your at close to a billion a month in revenue at 15 a month. Considering Sony netted what 24 billion in 2021. That's half of what sony netted. 40-50 million subscribers is having a 10 million seller ever single month just think about it. That's easily sustainable.
Roxkis_ii
Banned
Final fantasy 7 remake small potatoes compared to STAR OCEAN!? You should be a comedian. I almost spit my drank out after reading that.
I'm honestly kinda flabbergasted at that statement, but I'm going to assume the best of you, and take that as you trolling me.
Star Ocean, small potatoes, man, I've heard it all.
Last edited:
Stooky
Banned
Let's see what happens to those devs if Gpass isn't successful. The gpass model has not been proven yet. There is a reason why movies aren't a available for steaming day 1.Do I really need to tell you benefits of increased exposure? Just look what PS Plus launch did to Rocket League or Fall Guys. Even Yoshida admitted that.
Have this type of game in PS Plus at launch - many people would try a sub just to try this game because they were afraid to shell out 80€ for roguelike game - they will find out many great games that PS Plus have and stay subbed for a long time because there are always new games to play.
Instead Sony dumped Returnal into PS Plus at start of "new PS Plus" along with clusterfuck of games so many people don't even know it is there.
I mean it's not that hard. How do you think Game Pass grew it's subscriber base?
All that crap about "we can't afford to put our games into sub service" is just that. Crap. Or you want to pretend that TLOU Part 1 had insane budget that could not be covered by putting that game into PS Plus day one?
It's all about maximising profits. Which is cool for Sony and they are business after all. But let's not pretend that their excuses are valid.
But at the end of the day, it's great for Microsoft. They have undisputed best sub service in gaming. So let's see in few years how Sony's 80€ model would stack up against Game Pass with Call of Duty, Diablo, Fable, Indiana Jones, Forza, Gears and clusterfuck of other games day one. Because right now Game Pass grew in every quarter of 2022 and that's without even one AAA first-party game released. I guess market will decide.
Last edited:
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
12 GAAS is risky as f***.
Stooky
Banned
Part of Netflix problem is that they have to pay out for movies they don't own which is most of their catalogue. where as Disney owns all of their content. Thats one reason why Microsoft is buying large publishers.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And even Disney stopped doing day 1 with their largest blockbusters, since they know there is more money in theater sales first to cover the investments made in those projects.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
How is it not bad if devs want to sell people AAA games if people are no longer buying games. GP isn't going to cover every AAA game in the industry
Big difference is the 200 million dollar disney movie is 2 hours of content. It still was not day one for regular subscribers but 30 a movie option. A 200 million dollar game is going to be 20 plus hours could be 100 hours if a wrpg. A lot less money per hour for content. So you can include it on a service unlike a 200 million dollar movie.
Disney Plus Premier Access: What Is It, and How Much Is It? - The Manual
Image used with permission by copyright holder Disney Plus Premier Access is pretty much what its name suggests it is — it’s a premium part of in which users can pay extra to watch the latest cinematic releases from home. If you’re keen to know even more, read on while we guide you through...
www.themanual.com
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I'm not getting the maths here. 50 million subscribers at an average of 10 dollars per month is 6 billion per year that's 1 quarter of what you state Sony made in 2021. Even if it was at an optimum of 15 dollars per month which realistically, it wouldn't be. You'd still only be looking at 9 billion per year which still isn't half of that figure you stated.
Last edited:
DarkMage619
$MSFT
How did Elden Ring sell on Xbox? It was never on Game pass so if it didn't sell well then we have good anecdotal evidence that games simply don't sell on the platform.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It sold hell of a lot more than if it were on the service day 1. That's common sense.
The market will dictate what everyone does. If ms succeeds with their plan you can bet your hairy ass sony will follow suit if thats the type of service gamers expect in the future. If not then ms will eventually cut their losses and give some phony excuse like the world wasnt ready for it yet.
Markio128
Member
Gamepass is way ahead of its time. As in, MS should have waited until they had some frickin' games to put on it.
Lognor
Banned
You must not understand the difference between minority and majority. That's the only reason I can think of how you are still arguing this. 30% is the minority! And that was within 6 months for Netflix. You're talking about subscribing to gp for a month and unsubbing after. Very very few people are doing that. That's fine that you do that, but you need to realize that you're in the very small minority. And that's okay. Ms and other subscription services understand that a very small percentage of people will do that. Good for you for using your brain and and gaming the system! /s
Agreed! That's why ms (forget who it was) said that they won't stop buying devs. Once the Activision al deal closes they'll be back on the warpath
Stooky
Banned
Games pricing is set to recoup the cost and make a profit. The Industry looks at game sales like its produce, meaning it has a shelf life. Unlike movies and music where some content will continue to sell well after it's initial release date decades later. It's part of reason why we remakes and remasters. It's like new lime flavored pringles. Same old chip little different seasoning.
Last edited:
nocsi
Member
GamePass Jehovah's witnesses lol. Xbox really did build an actual cult and sent their followers to spread gospel. After you pay your monthly tithing to Microsoft, do you really care what they put in your GP feeding trough?
Bernd Lauert
Banned
They can still sell their games if they want. I don't see the problem.
akimbo009
Member
Steam nor Epic are real platforms.
Last edited:
Kagey K
Banned
It's funny to watch them cling to the old ways, but honestly if you get enough subscribers, you pay for all your monthly costs, and have extra revenue it becomes a win.
Just too many people don't understand that yet. And it could be an Achilles heel.
With gamepass they can't afford 200 mil games. They don't realize that it's paying the monthly bills and 200 mil over 5 years isn't much with that revenue.
They are just looking at end tally numbers, and trying to perpetuate fear.
Last edited: