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[Foreign Jackass]

If it's worth anything, I thought Million Dollar Baby was melodramatic crap. I thought the way the girl's family was stereotyped was offensive in how exaggerated they were portrayed.

It's not worth anything, and although her family was sterotyped, I actually know people as sad as those. Yeah, really. The stereotype sometimes is real, you know. The effeminate homosexual exists. The one-sided boob craving macho man exists, too. And boy does trailer trash exist.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

Err, what're you talking about? The only organization that M$B wasn't eligible for were the BAFTAs due to the fact that it wasnt out in London yet (something that isnt a requirement for film critic circles here). Here are the major critics orgs that have given Sideways the movie of the year...

Boston Society of Film Critics
Broadcast Film Critics Association
Chicago Film Critics Association
Florida Film Critics Circle
Gotham Awards
Los Angeles Film Critics Association
New York Film Critics Circle
San Francisco Film Critics Circle
Southeastern Film Critics Association
Toronto Film Critics Association

Alexander Payne won a slew of Best Director awards from other places and/or Best Adapted Screenplay with Jim Taylor.

Ok, I have to agree with you that Sideways has lots of critics circle rooting for it, and don't get me wrong, I think it's a great movie. But I dunno, part of its critical success seems to be because tight-assed critics can easily identify with alcoholic part-losers. And well, Alexander Payne is great, and all, but isn't he just dissing middle-class over and over in his movies?

For its defense, M$B came out a lot later (I believe it even came out after some of those circles took their decision, too, so...)

It racked up the biggest film critic prize as far as I'm concerned (National Society of Film Critics) and took three of the most respected critics in your country's #1 spot (A. O. Scott and Manohla Dargis of the New York Times, Roger Ebert).

Let's just say they both got their praise. I'll still root for M$B come Oscar night.

 

[Particle Physicist]

EDIT: Whoops, wrong thread.

I'm still downlo...er, purchasing my "Sideways" ticket.

for a movie like this.. you really should be supporting it.

 

[Macam]

I think Million Dollar Baby looks bland, but I haven't seen it so I'll reserve judgement on it until I do; Memento I did see and I can safely that it's bland, derived, and doesn't even deserve to be noted as one of 2000's better films.

 

[Dan]

But I dunno, part of its critical success seems to be because tight-assed critics can easily identify with alcoholic part-losers.

...

Clearly a direct relationship. And after that comment, you're going to try and say that those same critics didn't use equally ridiculous, arbitrary and superficial thought processes in their judgment of Million Dollar Baby? Riiight.

And well, Alexander Payne is great, and all, but isn't he just dissing middle-class over and over in his movies?

Wow. Talk about wildly misguided and shallow generalizations.

 

[enjoy bell woods]

.

Clearly a direct relationship. And after that comment, you're going to try and say that those same critics didn't use equally ridiculous, arbitrary and superficial thought processes in their judgment of Million Dollar Baby? Riiight.

Wow. Talk about wildly misguided and shallow generalizations.

I didn't even catch that last part. Where in Sideways is middle-class America even touched upon? I think someone's been reading too much Uncle Orson's...

 

[gohepcat]

Yeah, honestly, I thought the movie was sad as hell. When the rest of the audience was cracking up, I was sitting there dying on the inside.

I saw this movie right outside of Cambridge MA, one of the snooty-est, intellectual areas in the country. You would think that out of all the places on earth this would be a place that would get the dry, bittersweet side of this movie.

Nope... they were crackin up like it was a fucking episode of "Fresh Price of Bel-Air"

WTF?

 

[Gregory]

If it's worth anything, I thought Million Dollar Baby was melodramatic crap. I thought the way the girl's family was stereotyped was offensive in how exaggerated they were portrayed.

Totally agree.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

Wow. Talk about wildly misguided and shallow generalizations.

Those same misguided and shallow generalizations were expressed in the critics circle on Slate.com, which includes David Edelstein and A.O. Scott. I'm sorry, but Election was like that, and About Schmidt was NOTHING but that. Sideways has a lot of that as well. Think a little before posting, thank you!

Why are people such fanboys that cannot question the movies they liked? I didn't even say it was a flaw, I was just saying a comment. How many times must I say that I LOVED THE FILM.

I LOVED SIDEWAYS.
I LOVED SIDEWAYS.
I LOVED SIDEWAYS.
I LOVED SIDEWAYS.
I LOVED SIDEWAYS.
I LOVED SIDEWAYS.
I LOVED SIDEWAYS.
I LOVED SIDEWAYS.
I LOVED SIDEWAYS.

There.

And please, if you want to bring an intelligent argument against Million Dollar Baby, use these guidelines.

1. See the movie for yourself.
2. Offer an argumentation better than "It sucks" or "It's crap".

Bah, after all, maybe I should just talk movies on a freakin movie forum.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

Where in Sideways is middle-class America even touched upon?

What fuckin movie did you watch? Or do you think middle-class america doesn't like wine and live in trailers? What class are they? High class? Low class?

 

[Dan]

Those same misguided and shallow generalizations were expressed in the critics circle on Slate.com, which includes David Edelstein and A.O. Scott.

Yes, and? I've read other reviews that point out how stupid your claims are, including another writer for the New York Times. Oh snap, what now? Seriously though, who uses a newspaper critic to back up their ideas about a film? These guys are consumer guides at best. If you think that's important film criticism...

I'm sorry, but Election was like that, and About Schmidt was NOTHING but that. Sideways has a lot of that as well.

If you've actually seen Payne's other work, you'd know he isn't "dissing" middle America. Election is a straight-up satire and his other films contain satirical elements as well, albeit in less significant forms that have different targets. Satire is not the same as "dissing". I'm not sure how one can possibly not see that Payne loves the characters in his films, despite all their flaws. Furthermore, all of his films take satirical jabs at just about every group and situation that they present. Nothing is really spared.

Why are people such fanboys that cannot question the movies they liked? I didn't even say it was a flaw, I was just saying a comment. How many times must I say that I LOVED THE FILM.

There's a big difference between questioning a film and pulling something out of your ass without backing it up.

Oh, and if you come back here, try and say something that is not just a rewritten retread of what was said in Slate's 2004 wrapup. It's pretty clear that you're simply stealing what those guys wrote about the movie without actually understanding the points, and from the first page to boot. Why don't you go back to your Million Dollar Baby viral marketing campaign? Your outlandish trolling grows tiresome.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

Yes, and? I've read other reviews that point out how stupid your claims are, including another writer for the New York Times. Oh snap, what now? Seriously though, who uses a newspaper critic to back up their ideas about a film? These guys are consumer guides at best. If you think that's important film criticism...

If you've actually seen Payne's other work, you'd know he isn't "dissing" middle America. Election is a straight-up satire and his other films contain satirical elements as well, albeit in less significant forms that have different targets. Satire is not the same as "dissing". I'm not sure how one can possibly not see that Payne loves the characters in his films, despite all their flaws. Furthermore, all of his films take satirical jabs at just about every group and situation that they present. Nothing is really spared.
There's a big difference between questioning a film and pulling something out of your ass without backing it up.

Oh, and if you come back here, try and say something that is not just a rewritten retread of what was said in Slate's 2004 wrapup. It's pretty clear that you're simply stealing what those guys wrote about the movie without actually understanding the points, and from the first page to boot. Why don't you go back to your Million Dollar Baby viral marketing campaign? Your outlandish trolling grows tiresome.

Holy shit, that some great anger you've got under there!

First, stop acting like some higher education or something. Yeah, it comes from the first page of Slate's 2004 wrapup. Yeah, I read lots of film criticism that's better than this shit (unfortunately, Kael and Bazin are DEAD). I usually don't like Edelstein at all (he hated M$B, by the way, and I couldn't care less) but I liked the point about Alexander Payne, as I've thought about it ever since I saw About Schmidt. Don't even try to convince me that all your great ideas come instantaneously from your head, and aren't inspired by the stuff you read. I read stuff, and think about it. How could this be bad? Stop with your stupid elitism, you don't know where I come from and what I read.

I'm not saying Payne doesn't love his characters, but he despises them at the same time. Mr. Schmidt is representative of 90% of the population, and he could even be what YOU'LL be in 50 years. I doubt you'll think he's "funny" or "interesting" when you become HIM. His movies are no doubt taking jabs at every group he represents, but he represents the same groups over and over. The director in Election and Schmidt had lots of points in common.

And I'd like to know, in what fucking way are you backing up your points more than I am? Since when is satire not a way of dissing? It's the whole point of doing it. What's the point of doing a satire if it's not commenting negatively about something?

 

[sefskillz]

This is one of the worst arguments I've ever witnessed. It shouldn't even be taking place. Foreign Jackass is right on with his point, but he just misworded it a little by saying 'disses'. Dan is just looking for an argument or something. At any rate, to foreign jackass: see dancer in the dark already, what's wrong with you?

 

[Foreign Jackass]

This is one of the worst arguments I've ever witnessed. It shouldn't even be taking place. Foreign Jackass is right on with his point, but he just misworded it a little by saying 'disses'. Dan is just looking for an argument or something. At any rate, to foreign jackass: see dancer in the dark already, what's wrong with you?

Yeah, using "disses" was a mistake, I guess. My first language is french, so BEAR WITH ME. :lol

I haven't seen Dancer in the dark, and frankly, I haven't seen a Lars von Trier movie yet. I thought Dancer in the Dark looked depressing, and I'm not a huge bjork fan, but I've been hearing such great things about it from friends. I'll put it on my must-see list, but if I kill myself afterwards, you'll be held responsible!

 

[Dan]

And I'd like to know, in what fucking way are you backing up your points more than I am? Since when is satire not a way of dissing? It's the whole point of doing it. What's the point of doing a satire if it's not commenting negatively about something?

I made an important distinction. You claimed he was solely "dissing" middle America. Satire does indeed involve taking jabs at something, but it comes packaged with a constructive aim. Saying it is mere "dissing" shows that you either completely misunderstand the definition of "satire" or that you have only taken a superficial look at Payne's filmography.

Dan is just looking for an argument or something.

Says you while defending the guy who came into this thread by merely making a three word post that said: "Million Dollar Baby".

 

[sefskillz]

Says you while defending the guy who came into this thread by merely making a three word post that said: "Million Dollar Baby".

this is an excellent point. i concede, feel free to continue the wonderfully stagnant argument.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

Says you while defending the guy who came into this thread by merely making a three word post that said: "Million Dollar Baby".

Aw, come on. The topic's title is a question. IS SIDEWAYS THE MOVIE OF THE YEAR? My opinion is that it's not. Get over it, goddamnit. Why do you care so much? I'm just another loser on the GA Forum who wants to express his worthless opinion. Now stop crying.

 

[MIMIC]

I'm kinda disappointed. And I'm disappointed in my disappointment. I was expecting this movie to blow me away, and I just came away from it as simply satisfied. Overall, I'd give it a B+

Definitely not movie of the year in my book.

"Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" > "Sideways" > "The Aviator"

Next up for me: "Ray"

 

[Memles]

I watched this tonight; I'll be honest that this is my first year where I feel that I'm actually becoming an objective movie watcher. I think I have a tendency to enjoy things too much and be too passive in tearing them apart.

There isn't anything to tear apart in this film. Although I have yet to see the other Best Actor nominees in action (It's on my to do list) Giamatti was still robbed. His performance was just amazingly well done.

I think that Madsen is the only other real Oscar contender, in my view. I really enjoyed the work of Haden Church, but I didn't feel that I ever took him seriously. I know it's technically being classed as a comedy, but at the same time the character never has that defining moment for me where he comes to and realizes his flaws. Sure, he broke down crying, but it didn't feel genuine for me.

Madsen, on the other hand, was absolutely endearing in her role, and in terms of supporting acting I think it was an incredibly great job. It was subtle enough that it didn't overpower Giamatti, but at the same time it managed to create a character that the audience is as enamored with as Miles is.

Plus, she's hot, and my name is his name, so she thus kept saying my name, and it was awesome. Well, it's sort of my name. Kinda.

On the whole, the film was just a really good film. I don't know how I'll rank it against the other Best Picture nominees, and I also plan on watching Eternal Sunshine and Hotel Rwanda to see some of the Best Actor/Best Actress nominees as well as to see if I would have changed the nominees any.

 

[Mugen]

Yah I just saw it also and I must say it's a really good movie. Deserving of its Best Picture nod but I'm not sure about Best Picture itself. And yes Paul Giamatti is VERY convincing and should get the Best Actor award. And I dunno about the comedy also cause it was all drama to me. Nothing was funny about this movie. I didn't even laugh once. But everybody should see this!