Gtafans93
Member
But! ho, how do you know if they were hired for diversity or hired because they are qualified? for all we know they could all be very good at there jobs and they just happen to be women.
Sigh...Signs of development hell has surfaced for 343 Industries. I'm moving on.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I have to agree, looking at it retrospectively -
The good -
1. Great movement.
2. Solid weapons.
3. Solid audio.
4. WZ was fun but limited.
5. A few good maps in the small category.
6. REQs were implemented well and kept away from competitive play.
7. Firefight was eventually quite good but missing at launch.
8. WZ maps were pretty well fit for purpose.
9. Smooth and solid framerate that made responsive and cohesive gameplay.
10. Sustain was eventually good e.g. they updated the game years after release with major content e.g. Forge, Firefight, PC Forge etc.
The bad -
1. Waaaay too much focus on esports, 343 literally cut out the most popular modes of Halo 1-3, default radar 4v4 and 8v8. They split the game down the middle with pure esports vs casual WZ.
2. Maps were too focused on slayer and small sized maps, again they literally cut out light vehicles 4v4/5v5 type stuff near completely.
3. Fuck all objective focus, WZ's OBJ mode turned into a grieving session and basically the population fucked off. You can't affect gameplay when in large team sizes and it's not fun long term to match full squads. Games like Apex for example give you a core 3 man squad and you engage and can affect your game outcome and experience heavily.
4. Matchmaking and region support was utter shit, specially outside USA.
5. The late term updates for region support still favoured developer implementations over player controls and choices. Again games like Apex or Titanfall give full control to selecting your Azure regions. There is no excuse here 343.
6. Lack of content e.g. firefight took like 1.5-2 years to show up.
8. Sustain was shit for the first 6-9 months post launch.
9. Population, again especially outside the USA, was shite. Modes were left unplayable.
10. No splitscreen.
11. No LAN.
12. Lack of matchmaking filters e.g. maps and modes.
13. Too much geometry for multiplayer e.g. grenades get stuck in pipes or you walk into a small part of geo etc.
14. Breakout received a chunk of dev resources and failed, they should never have gone after yet another esports mode e.g. chasing CS:GO/COD faster TTK.
15. Forge was missing at launch
16. Then BTB was all forge maps.
17. All that great movement and complexity/flexibility given to players comes at the cost of randomness in engagements, the predictability of Halo firefights went out the window somewhat. This is more a sum of the parts problem e.g. grenade wall bounces, thruster, combo momentum. Comparatively games like Apex have these sorts of traits but they're character specific and you inherently identify the character and traits available to the engagement you're in (even to the point of calling enemy characters out to teammates when you see an enemy). With Halo 5 all the Spartans vary wildly visually and have the full gamut of abilities available at any moment, which gives rise to this randomness within each firefight. It sums up to being too much.
Honestly H4 and H5 basically turned their back on the most popular playlists from H1-3, 4v4/8v8 slayer social/ranked and 4v4/8v8 objective. They moved too far into esports for maps and modes, the movement and gunplay is worthy of keeping and pushed into you're just cannon fodder in WZ. It's a little to complex and lacks that clean identity and gameplay.
The biggest issue with 343's Halo is identity. The multiplayer has to support so much and it feels like it doesn't know what it wants to be exactly. 343 tried to define the split from esports/WZ and retain populations within, it failed. When you look at something like COD warzone or Apex or Fortnite or PUBG they support very limited modes but the core gameplay is tight AF, the characters and weapons and movement are very well defined and identified instantly during gameplay. Halo has lost this, especially with Halo 5. The core mechanics are there, 343 nailed that but it needs refining and clearly put into the right sandbox of quality maps and modes developed out of that gameplay loop.
This is the development hell 343 have been in for all of H4, MCC and H5. It's clear they're struggling to deliver an industry leading FPS hitting all the notes across the board e.g. campaign, multi and something new. Bungie's rule of 3 should apply here, focus on those elements. H5 had that clear design goal but executed it poorly. Hopefully Infinite has corrected this next attempt and delivering that trio.
Another area I was truly hoping to see out of 343's Infinite development is PvE content for Halo. I and my old regular Halo/Destiny crew would kill for Destiny/RPG-lite levels of sustain with Halo; such as RAIDS, strikes and public events/areas combined with loot and progression/customisation. The reveal not showing anything in this regard and no information on multiplayer has me seriously concerned with what is going on development wise at 343. Hopefully they pull a winning combination on the river card with this development game of Texas Hold Em, we haven't seen their hole cards yet. Please don't be bluffing.
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ipukespiders
Member
LOL.
Ten_Fold
Member
Like I've said before I don't care if your a female LTBGQ, black, white Latino etc. just make the game good, it's like they NEED to find why we really loved halo. I hated H4, and H5 was just OK. Halo 3 is still my favorite. I feel they need to just make the games more fun, doesn't need to be designed mainly for E-sports. You should use e-sports for balancing. Just make the maps fun, the modes fun, like odd ball, vip, etc. I know 343's track record has been horrible, but they just can't fuck up this halo.
ColonialRaptor
Member
do you expect they will get it right though? I mean what we've seen so far is a bad sign to me and with just one year to 'fix' it I don't know how that's going to happen. Maybe they can do the graphics justice and the soft reboot style gameplay didn't look too bad but damn how many of us just want that old amazing cutting edge halo feel with the new tech. It is kinda sad that it isn't here for us already.
alabtrosMyster
Member
Stephen Curry
Member
Go into the Politics side and you will soon realize GAF is not better than this lol
stickkidsam
Member
Halo's problems are stem from priorities. I'd imagine most people aren't saying women are the reason Halo sucks now though. Microsoft and 343 have shown plenty of examples of their priorities being wrong, whether it be chasing trends or hiring people who don't even like Halo to appeal to a broader market. Showing off diversity is just one example that might indicate they care more about looking like a great company than BEING a great company.
ExpandKong
Banned
Team Andromeda
Member
I'm just amazed that Halo 4/5 gets so much flack when Halo 2 contained and featured the worst single-player HALO campaign in the series history and was saved by its amazing visuals and the multiplayer, even BUNGiE told EDGE Mag that Halo 2 campaign was crap.
Golgo 13
The Man With The Golden Dong
It's not the women's fault; they applied for a job, and they got it. I don't think even disappointed Halo fans direct their displeasure at the employees; instead it's the results that have come from the virtue-signaling, Marxist culture that big-tech embraces. 343i is a great example of how those 1-bit ideas that earn you cheap moral virtue actually hurt your company in the long term.
Let's say for the sake of argument that
your company needs to produce the best possible product to be a contender in the consumer space; most people would agree this is true. Video games are a hard market. Top talent is a commodity. This goes for every endeavor, video games are no exception. That means you need to weed out all the chaff and find the best %.001 of people in each position. But what if those people don't meet your idea of diversity? Well, because top talent is so freakishly rare, you're going to compromise talent to achieve diversity. That's exactly what happens.
So it makes sense to use the following rationale; hire the best possible talent that you can, regardless of gender/race/sexual preference. So that means that if the best 200 people are all Indian people, so be it. If they're all black, so be it. If they're all Chinese, FINE. If they're all white, it doesn't matter. What really counts here is the PRODUCT ITSELF. "No, no, no!" says "diversity". They think that by magically dividing their team up into "under represented" segments of the population, that the universe will award them with success and good products.
Obviously if you have the cognitive skills of a kindergartner, this is a fucking absurd proposition that falls apart under even the smallest amount of logical scrutiny.
So again, this has nothing to do with the poor, undeserving employees of 343i; it has to do with what they represent — the results of the "enforced diversity" experiment and the death of a franchise that's been a result.
It isn't women's fault, ^ it's simps like this' fault.
JimiNutz
Banned
If the game does actually end up being shitty then MS should fire 343 and patch in an alternate ending where Master Chief is mortally wounded but is rescued by the Doom Slayer.
Unfortunately the Chief is too broken to be saved so the Doom Slayer curb stomps him (to put him out of his misery) before saying, 'don't worry Chief, I'll keep Phil warm at night now'.
Unfortunately the Chief is too broken to be saved so the Doom Slayer curb stomps him (to put him out of his misery) before saying, 'don't worry Chief, I'll keep Phil warm at night now'.
Potato Chip PRO
Member
report card for 343i incoming
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Unfortunately social experiments/wars like this are not uncommon (not sure Leonidas should read this
): https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1326546819443171329.htmlDiversity is a difficult concept to grapple with beyond the "help the oppressed minority" point of view. Would the following white devs not be a diverse team because they are white now? French, Slovenian, Bulgarian, Spanish, U.K., Italian, etc... Some people talk about welcoming uncomfortable discussions when it brings discomfort to others' viewpoint, but not to theirs... explain how that group of people is homogenous and non diverse for example.
KRYPT83
Member
It's from Review tech I'll pass all his sources insiders was wrong about Ps5, and a ex Infinite dev is still going to be under NDA so...
Flintty
Member
Fuck off, you don't know me.
Soleil rouge
Member
Gee I have no idea why the 343 Industries has completely gone down the shitter.
It all makes sense now. RIP Halo franchise.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
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Flintty
Member
I'm not going to quote all the responses but I'll finish with this.
You can't put up a picture of women and say 'this is why Halo is bad'. I'm as against diversity hires as the next Gaffer and think people should be hired on merit. Truth is, 343 is a massive organisation made up of mostly men and you can't single out diversity as the reason for this games failings. The blame has to sit with Bonnie, regardless of her sex.
We all have a mother/wife/daughter or a loved female in our lives. How would you feel if they worked at 343 and were being blamed for this shit when all they're doing is cracking on with a job they love and happened to be in a stupid publicity photo for IWD?
Check your heads you muppets.
You can't put up a picture of women and say 'this is why Halo is bad'. I'm as against diversity hires as the next Gaffer and think people should be hired on merit. Truth is, 343 is a massive organisation made up of mostly men and you can't single out diversity as the reason for this games failings. The blame has to sit with Bonnie, regardless of her sex.
We all have a mother/wife/daughter or a loved female in our lives. How would you feel if they worked at 343 and were being blamed for this shit when all they're doing is cracking on with a job they love and happened to be in a stupid publicity photo for IWD?
Check your heads you muppets.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Some are just joking, but that pic is about something related to women powering or so. The team is pretty diverse and big indeed.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
The only 'good' things in Halo 5
60fps
It's only the second worst game
That's it.
There is a reason it died as fast as it did.
Halo Infinite with it's grapple, slide, sprint and clamber garbage will die just as quickly.
Ceadeus
Member
Or maybe player just went to play something else. Does not mean it's bad. Your opinion doesn't validate anything. It's not perfect and they went elsewhere than halo 1 to 3 but now, that's why MCC exists.
It's just like you would ask for a long time running band to produce the same old music for each album , otherwise it would be criticized as bad.
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Azurro
Banned
Unfortunately social experiments/wars like this are not uncommon (not sure Leonidas should read this
Diversity is a difficult concept to grapple with beyond the "help the oppressed minority" point of view. Would the following white devs not be a diverse team because they are white now? French, Slovenian, Bulgarian, Spanish, U.K., Italian, etc... Some people talk about welcoming uncomfortable discussions when it brings discomfort to others' viewpoint, but not to theirs... explain how that group of people is homogenous and non diverse for example.
That's really interesting, how long ago did that happen? It would help to explain why they have been on the backfoot for the last couple of years.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Yea, people who wanted to play titanfall/apex kept playing those games, they didn't all of a sudden start playing Halo because it added a bunch of garbage movement mechanics and made shooting easy enough for a toddler.
PleaseDontBanMe
Banned
this has to be fakeGee I have no idea why the 343 Industries has completely gone down the shitter.
lock2k
Banned
Dr.D00p
Member
Gee I have no idea why the 343 Industries has completely gone down the shitter.
All I see in this picture is a room full of lawsuits & sexual harassment claims to keep Microsoft's HR & legal depts busy for the next 10yrs.
SafeOrAlone
Banned
I think some people here were burned so bad by ResetEra that they go out of their way to shock others and act malicious with bold, sexist statements. We don't need to be the opposite of RE to be nothing like them.
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
Halo 2 on legendary is a broken mess. Halo 2 on heroic or lower shits all over anything 343 has made.
Rusty Shackelford
Member
They HAVE to be testers. But hey, Bonnie Ross is all about diversity and empowering women. She really needs to be fired. Hire based on skill and abilities. Not making your company look "woke". When will this shit end? They have churned out one decent Halo, and its reworked versions of what Bungie did.
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SLB1904
Banned
Dude hates consoles period.
Team Andromeda
Member
The whole single-player campaign is a mess in HALO 2; BUNGiE even admitted it themself to EDGE mag That's to overlook how what was planned for the game couldn't actually run on a retail Xbox.
Still the game was saved by massive hype and the awesome multiplayer
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
That "mess" still shits all over Halo 4 and 5's campaigns on heroic and lower. Halo 4 has the worst AI in the series and worst level design and Halo 5 has beyond shit gameplay with its half assed squad mechanic that made them flood the screen with enemies to compensate for having 4 players. Not to mention the story is 100x better.
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Crew 511A
Member
No one is saying Halo is bad because the dev team is diverse. What people have a problem with is that 343 keeps posting SJW stuff on Facebook and Twitter while the franchise suffers. Maybe they should direct that energy into making decent games.
Flintty
Member
Really? Just on the previous page are these two posts, which my original response was aimed at.
Gee I have no idea why the 343 Industries has completely gone down the shitter.
And it's not like the lead developers manage the Twitter account - they likely have comms people for that, like most organisations
Crew 511A
Member
Really? Just on the previous page are these two posts, which my original response was aimed at.
And it's not like the lead developers manage the Twitter account - they likely have comms people for that, like most organisations
Ok, I guess some people are saying it. In terms of the picture, that was 343 bragging about how many women they hire. As a consumer, I don't care about that. I care about the quality of the product.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Looks like the Bethesda boys from the DOOM team are going to have to help out with trying to save this game.
VN1X
Banned
Yeah even for GAF standards this is such a lazy and 'edgy' take.
At least come up with something genuine and original besides the "OMG TEH WOMENZ RUINING MY GAEMZZ!!!1".
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Phil is just as much to blame as her honestly.How about we compromise and just blame one woman?
Piku_Ringo
Banned
How about we compromise and just blame one woman?
There is no need for targeted harassment over this game.
ExpandKong
Banned
But Phil has a penis.
I-I'm assuming
There is no need for targeted harassment over this game.
Who's harassing
This threat is probably how 343 has avoided being fired/closed.
If that's harassment to you then you should probably thank this pandemic for keeping you home and saving your life, this world would've rolled you.There is no need for targeted harassment over this game.
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Flintty
Member
I feel the same, honestly. Just give me a good Halo game ffs.
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Piku_Ringo
Banned
ExpandKong
Banned
You for mentioning Mrs. Ross in such negative light. Don't do that again.
Bonnie Ross can eat a jar full of farts
I am a devastating verbal tactician
