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Silent Hill: Shattered Memories - |OT| of Not Your Father's Silent Hill
- Thread starter hellclerk
- Start date
SlipperySlope
Banned
Celine said:
In the first video, the "Good Harry" video, the woman looks like Cheryl's mom from the video sequence. So the general synopsis is it's Cheryl's mom. Nobody knows for 100% sure though.
As for the ending variations, there's three different Harry meets Cheryl variations. There's also four different video clip variations. Plus the Cheryl meeting her mom trigger.
BTW, if you're curious what the 3rd Harry meets Cheryl variation is, it's called Hero Forever. It's the trippiest of all the endings.
Here's the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aeTV3CVL6Y
You'll never guess how to get this ending. Look it up, it's hilarious
Or you can ask here, and I'll tell you.
As for the ending variations, there's three different Harry meets Cheryl variations. There's also four different video clip variations. Plus the Cheryl meeting her mom trigger.
BTW, if you're curious what the 3rd Harry meets Cheryl variation is, it's called Hero Forever. It's the trippiest of all the endings.
Here's the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aeTV3CVL6Y
You'll never guess how to get this ending. Look it up, it's hilarious
Or you can ask here, and I'll tell you.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This game has instantly rocketed to one of my "best games I've ever played" list. I mean.....wow, there is so much going on here, its almost impossible to understand it all.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I've applied for a writing position at PALGN, since they're looking for new guys and I've got the time spare to contribute. I've never written reviews for a site before, so for my mock review I wrote one up for this game. I'm not totally happy with the review, and I missed discussing the audio (doh!), but I'll post it here anyway to clarify my thoughts on the game as a whole without spoilers;
SlipperySlope
Banned
The_Technomancer said:
That's true. The game is much larger than one run through can get. For example, every single voice mail, echo message, or even ghost message, has 2-4 different variations based on your choices. Even the pictures on the cell phone change.
The ghost messages, in particular, are the most haunting of the entire game.
The reason is because they affected Cheryl tremendously and thus she remembers them vividly. That's why the ghosts are partially visible before you take the picture. They're vivid memories of her past. And, if I remember correctly, all but one of them are something sad that either happened directly to her, or to someone she knew. She has a problem with distancing herself from her bad memories, that's why everything is still so vivid to her. She cannot accept them and move on.
On your next playthrough, try to get all of the ghost messages. It's highly recommended. You can get a list of them in a FAQ.
Of all the messages, the one that affects me the most is the ghost that is just before the cinema, sitting on a bench near some cones.
On your next playthrough, try to get all of the ghost messages. It's highly recommended. You can get a list of them in a FAQ.
Of all the messages, the one that affects me the most is the ghost that is just before the cinema, sitting on a bench near some cones.
Here's a list of just about every echo message and ghost message variation in the game (only go here if you've beaten the game!):
http://www.silenthillmemories.net/sh_shattered_memories/messages_en.htm
Anyway, here's the single message that I found had the most impact for me:
[Var. 3]
-Malcolm. Doing my rounds. I saw her again. I... I, aw shit, you know, I guess I can say this. I turned my back when she took something. Pretended I didn't see it. Why? I dunno. I guess I feel sorry for her. Last time we grabbed her, when we were talking to her... I dunno, there was so much sadness in those eyes. I felt sorry for her.
----
You can see the sadness in this ending video when Cheryl is leaving the clinic to her mom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY7fGgWF5H0
Anyway, here's the last part of the sequence from the Malcolm log. This one is from the ghost message that you may have missed, so this may be new to you:
[Var. 2]
-911? It's Malcolm the security guard, he's been stabbed!
-Slow down, sir. Is there bleeding?
-Yes. There's lots. He's not moving.
-And the attacker? Is he still there?
-She. It's a she. She's still here, she's sitting on a bench. She's just staring into space.
-The police and ambulance are on their way. Do not approach the attacker.
You can listen to the message on the site.
[Var. 3]
-Malcolm. Doing my rounds. I saw her again. I... I, aw shit, you know, I guess I can say this. I turned my back when she took something. Pretended I didn't see it. Why? I dunno. I guess I feel sorry for her. Last time we grabbed her, when we were talking to her... I dunno, there was so much sadness in those eyes. I felt sorry for her.
----
You can see the sadness in this ending video when Cheryl is leaving the clinic to her mom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY7fGgWF5H0
Anyway, here's the last part of the sequence from the Malcolm log. This one is from the ghost message that you may have missed, so this may be new to you:
[Var. 2]
-911? It's Malcolm the security guard, he's been stabbed!
-Slow down, sir. Is there bleeding?
-Yes. There's lots. He's not moving.
-And the attacker? Is he still there?
-She. It's a she. She's still here, she's sitting on a bench. She's just staring into space.
-The police and ambulance are on their way. Do not approach the attacker.
You can listen to the message on the site.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
SlipperySlope said:
Yep. His performance in the last scene is very well done, probably the best I have seen in a video game.
SlipperySlope
Banned
EatChildren said:
Good review.
SlipperySlope
Banned
Skiesofwonder said:
I think he's 2nd only to the G Man in HL 2.
SlipperySlope
Banned
Edit - wrong thread.
Erebus
Member
Whenever someone bumps this thread, I'm reminded that I still haven't gotten around to play SM.
Today I was messing with the Dolphin emulator in a desperate attempt to play the superior Wii version on my PC. However, it seems that there is major glitching with the shadows, therefore I'm stuck with either the PS2 or the PSP version. Is there anyone who has tried both? Are they completely identical?
Today I was messing with the Dolphin emulator in a desperate attempt to play the superior Wii version on my PC. However, it seems that there is major glitching with the shadows, therefore I'm stuck with either the PS2 or the PSP version. Is there anyone who has tried both? Are they completely identical?
This game is finally out in Australia today!!!
At last!!
Uh, I assume you own a legally purchased version of the Wii game right? I'm sure you wouldn't try to play a pirated version without at least owning the game on the platform you're attempting to emulate.
At last!!
Don't know why I didn't import...
DarkUSS said:
Uh, I assume you own a legally purchased version of the Wii game right? I'm sure you wouldn't try to play a pirated version without at least owning the game on the platform you're attempting to emulate.
Erebus
Member
Well that doesn't exactly answer my question but I see what you're trying to do.benita said:
I don't own a Wii, that's why I rented the game for a day to see how it performs on the emulator. Turns out that it doesn't perform how I expected (glitchy shadows and fps hiccups as I mentioned), thus buying the Wii version is out of the question at the moment.
DarkUSS said:
Some Wii/PS2 comparison vids I made.
Contains potential spoilers.
Wii/PS2 comparison video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3npcgujs5EY
Ice-world comparison - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj9ZR6G1zk4
Ice-world transition comparison - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFADEne_wfU
Same content, sharper graphics/controls being the difference.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Which version is better for someone who has no Wii.
disappeared
Banned
RadioHeadAche said:
I have the PS2 version and it's amazing.
So, I kept meaning to remember to get a link up to this, but I recent did a one-on-one discussion podcast for Silent Hill: Shattered Memories. The reason I wanted to make sure to let all of GAF know is because this will give you all even more fuel in thinking I'm a raving lunatic for my opinions on the game. *heh*
For the podcast, my guest was Steve Haske, who is now one of the stars of the new GameFan magazine. The idea was to go at the game from two totally different viewpoints: the longtime series fan who disliked SM because of what it did to the core elements of the franchise (me), and the person who found the narrative of SM to be amazing and far more important than the gameplay, which was what originally drew him to SH2 in the first place (Steve).
The idea isn't an "I'm right, you're wrong" scenario, just a (hopefully) interesting discussion between two people who came at the same game from very different viewpoints. If you end up listening, hopefully it'll be entertaining enough to have been worth your time, but if not, like I said: at the very least, it'll just re-enforce the opinion of those of you who thought I was a total asshat for what I thought of the game.
Anyhow, you can find the podcast over here.
For the podcast, my guest was Steve Haske, who is now one of the stars of the new GameFan magazine. The idea was to go at the game from two totally different viewpoints: the longtime series fan who disliked SM because of what it did to the core elements of the franchise (me), and the person who found the narrative of SM to be amazing and far more important than the gameplay, which was what originally drew him to SH2 in the first place (Steve).
The idea isn't an "I'm right, you're wrong" scenario, just a (hopefully) interesting discussion between two people who came at the same game from very different viewpoints. If you end up listening, hopefully it'll be entertaining enough to have been worth your time, but if not, like I said: at the very least, it'll just re-enforce the opinion of those of you who thought I was a total asshat for what I thought of the game.
Anyhow, you can find the podcast over here.
SlipperySlope
Banned
shidoshi said:
Interesting podcast. It takes a while to actually get to SM (46 minutes in).
Sorry for the long post, but this is how I feel about the story.
There is no real "wrong interpretation" to this game, so I'll just add my comments. You mentioned that there was no payoff when you complete the game. That what you did was for nothing. I didn't feel that way at all about the game. I felt that imagination Harry had a very direct impact on the game. Yes, he's a figment of her imagination. But the figment of her imagination has a direct purpose. That purpose is to help answer the riddle of Cheryl's mind.
Cheryl is of the belief her father is alive. As you travel through her memories, you, and thus Cheryl, in the end come to one conclusion. That he's in fact dead. As you travel through her mind, the pieces eventually get put together to where that is the only answer. When you talk to the cop outside the lighthouse, that's when Cheryl can come up with no other excuses. No other reasons that he is alive. Nothing else she can make up about his existence.
And it's the combination of you traveling through her memories and her nightmares, and the doctor's assistance, that gets Cheryl to that conclusion. You'll notice that the nightmares come right before Harry is about to learn the truth. Cheryl puts those nightmares there so that Harry, and she, can hide from the truth. Harry however keeps on fighting through those nightmares until he learns the truth.
When Cheryl learns the truth, mentally, she's set free from her past. As you learn from her memories, after the car accident, she got severely depressed. From the ghost image of her on the swing set wishing for her father to come back, to her bad school experiences, to the bad mall experiences where she lashed out and killed a security guard. Her life was hell for 18 years. In that 18 year span, she has not a single good memory. And it's all a result of her mental state. These visions of her father ruined her life. When she learns the truth, she can let go of her father, exit that hell, and have a hopeful future.
----
As for the messages that seem to have no meaning for either Harry or Cheryl, I think the opposite. I think most of those messages (like 90%+), and especially the ghost messages, meant something very special to Cheryl. They all seem to be things that either happened to her, or to somebody she knew (and thus helped shape the mental state she's in). A child friend of hers died in the forest (via a ghost message, it's a hard one to find so you may not have found it). Another friend, from her teenage years, also either died or nearly died in the forest from being slipped a drug. (this message changes depending on the answers you gave the psych, in some she seems to have lived, in others she clearly died).
Either she or a friend got raped in a car on the overlook. I think the general consensus is that this ghost was Cheryl, but I'm not 100%.
The Malcolm messages were all directly about Cheryl.
In the entire game, I think that Cheryl has only one particularly good memory. And that's the ghost message at the beginning of the amusement park.
I personally think that the characters you interact with, Michelle and Lisa, are both manifestations of Cheryl in her delusion. Michelle, for example, sings "You are always on my mind." Which Harry is to Cheryl. And both of those characters say that they fall for guys that look like their father, which Cheryl did in High School. In my first play through, I thought that the teacher Cheryl was having an affair with actually was Harry due to them looking alike and that Harry was in fact her teacher, not her father.
Again, sorry for the really long post.
Anyway, that's my interpretation. I could be wrong.
There is no real "wrong interpretation" to this game, so I'll just add my comments. You mentioned that there was no payoff when you complete the game. That what you did was for nothing. I didn't feel that way at all about the game. I felt that imagination Harry had a very direct impact on the game. Yes, he's a figment of her imagination. But the figment of her imagination has a direct purpose. That purpose is to help answer the riddle of Cheryl's mind.
Cheryl is of the belief her father is alive. As you travel through her memories, you, and thus Cheryl, in the end come to one conclusion. That he's in fact dead. As you travel through her mind, the pieces eventually get put together to where that is the only answer. When you talk to the cop outside the lighthouse, that's when Cheryl can come up with no other excuses. No other reasons that he is alive. Nothing else she can make up about his existence.
And it's the combination of you traveling through her memories and her nightmares, and the doctor's assistance, that gets Cheryl to that conclusion. You'll notice that the nightmares come right before Harry is about to learn the truth. Cheryl puts those nightmares there so that Harry, and she, can hide from the truth. Harry however keeps on fighting through those nightmares until he learns the truth.
When Cheryl learns the truth, mentally, she's set free from her past. As you learn from her memories, after the car accident, she got severely depressed. From the ghost image of her on the swing set wishing for her father to come back, to her bad school experiences, to the bad mall experiences where she lashed out and killed a security guard. Her life was hell for 18 years. In that 18 year span, she has not a single good memory. And it's all a result of her mental state. These visions of her father ruined her life. When she learns the truth, she can let go of her father, exit that hell, and have a hopeful future.
----
As for the messages that seem to have no meaning for either Harry or Cheryl, I think the opposite. I think most of those messages (like 90%+), and especially the ghost messages, meant something very special to Cheryl. They all seem to be things that either happened to her, or to somebody she knew (and thus helped shape the mental state she's in). A child friend of hers died in the forest (via a ghost message, it's a hard one to find so you may not have found it). Another friend, from her teenage years, also either died or nearly died in the forest from being slipped a drug. (this message changes depending on the answers you gave the psych, in some she seems to have lived, in others she clearly died).
Either she or a friend got raped in a car on the overlook. I think the general consensus is that this ghost was Cheryl, but I'm not 100%.
The Malcolm messages were all directly about Cheryl.
In the entire game, I think that Cheryl has only one particularly good memory. And that's the ghost message at the beginning of the amusement park.
I personally think that the characters you interact with, Michelle and Lisa, are both manifestations of Cheryl in her delusion. Michelle, for example, sings "You are always on my mind." Which Harry is to Cheryl. And both of those characters say that they fall for guys that look like their father, which Cheryl did in High School. In my first play through, I thought that the teacher Cheryl was having an affair with actually was Harry due to them looking alike and that Harry was in fact her teacher, not her father.
Again, sorry for the really long post.
Anyway, that's my interpretation. I could be wrong.
By far the worst ending.SlipperySlope said:In the first video, the "Good Harry" video, the woman looks like Cheryl's mom from the video sequence. So the general synopsis is it's Cheryl's mom. Nobody knows for 100% sure though.
As for the ending variations, there's three different Harry meets Cheryl variations. There's also four different video clip variations. Plus the Cheryl meeting her mom trigger.
BTW, if you're curious what the 3rd Harry meets Cheryl variation is, it's called Hero Forever. It's the trippiest of all the endings.
Here's the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aeTV3CVL6Y
You'll never guess how to get this ending. Look it up, it's hilarious
Or you can ask here, and I'll tell you.
In this case the journey was for nothing.
Absolutly horrid first impressions for me,but I won`t rant or whine,yet,because most of it was my fault because of my usual Wii controls hatred...because of that and being stuck in the back seat of the police car,not being able to get out,I had to exit the game and now I have to restart the whole running away from those creatures over,because it didn`t auto save after that...i`m back in the dinner,even before the whole coloring the house part...
Is there a lot of those running away parts? because I absolutly hated that...
Is there a lot of those running away parts? because I absolutly hated that...
Suprised no one posted this yet: Zero Punctuation review: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1651-Silent-Hill-Shattered-Memories
Well yeah. I usually take that as a good sign though, since that means there aren't enough hilarious things to laugh at it with.Lyphen said:
Honestly, how he described his play style made be think that he probably isn't the best person to review the game as it was. He was looking for horror methinks, and while it's worth pointing out that the game isn't particularly scary, what's necessary is to ask what the game is without being scary.
In either case it was entertaining enough. I just kind of wish he did a bit more with it.
SlipperySlope
Banned
Jocchan said:
Yup. Fuck with him as much as you can. Contradict yourself at every opportunity. Look at the lamp while he's talking. Pair two gay couples. Put the abstract things all on one side. Say you're a slut and a virgin. You can get a complete list on GameFAQ's. So the game is realistic in this aspect. Ignore the psych, and keep living in your fantasy. I think it's good they included this ending, since it was your choice to ignore the psych.
SlipperySlope
Banned
Diebuster said:
They're annoying, but you get used to them. Once you know the route, you can beat them without dying.
shidoshi said:
I've just finished listening to this and I must say that it was a long and very interesting discussion; it definitely helps to understand why you dislike Shattered Memories so much.
Anyway, presenting the game by two people with completely different opinions on said game is how I think all reviews should be done. Unfortunately, it's impossible.
BTW. What was happening in the background? Was it some kind of music? Because through the entire podcast I thought that you two were in a restaurant or some kind of really busy kitchen, with lots of dishes being constantly moved around.
SlipperySlope
Banned
Oxx said:
can't go wrong at that price.
Hellsing321
Member
Pretty fair points from Yahtzee. I loved the knock on Silent Hill: The Arcade Game. :loldoomed1 said:
RadioHeadAche
Member
Are all the versions the same? For example, if I decide to go for the PSP version since I use it the most, will I be getting the same story, content, etc...?
Mr_Zombie said:TW. What was happening in the background? Was it some kind of music? Because through the entire podcast I thought that you two were in a restaurant or some kind of really busy kitchen, with lots of dishes being constantly moved around.
My initial idea was to try to make it sound like we were sitting in a cafe having the conversation, but in the end I'll probably be the only person who can appreciate that. *laughs* I'll no doubt drop it from the next episode.
SlipperySlope - I totally get what you're saying about the storyline. My argument, I guess, was that by not understand that that's what is going on, the motivation the player has for getting through the game is totally negated at the end. You end up with a finale that is kind of like, "Huh... well, that's pretty trippy," but then, at least for me, I realized that
EVERY action that I had taken from Harry's point of view, trying to help him find his daughter, was for nothing from Harry's perspective.
You could kind of compare it to The Sixth Sense, but in that case, the journey Bruce Willis' character takes ends up helping to resolve his own issues. For Harry, he's resolving his daughter's.
And that's a fine mission to be on - but I don't think the player needed to be lied to. Why not TELL the player that that's the mission they're on? Let the player in on the secret, and then through that, you're free to tell a storyline of a father who doesn't actually exists trying to help his daughter sort out her issues. Build the game so that what you do while playing Harry then determines how Cheryl acts during her sessions with Dr. Kauffman.
Instead of making the player think they are playing a traditional "save the princess" game, let them know that they're playing something far different. Build a rich and detailed storyline around that, instead of playing the "what a twist!" game.
At least, that's how I feel. The idea of Shattered Memories would have worked had it been a movie, because then the viewer has a passive role in what's going on. When you make it a game, like this, then it's easy to make the player feel that all of the effort they put out throughout the game was for nothing. (Yes, it was for the sake of Harry's daughter, but there's still that lack of payoff for what the player has been through.)
You could kind of compare it to The Sixth Sense, but in that case, the journey Bruce Willis' character takes ends up helping to resolve his own issues. For Harry, he's resolving his daughter's.
And that's a fine mission to be on - but I don't think the player needed to be lied to. Why not TELL the player that that's the mission they're on? Let the player in on the secret, and then through that, you're free to tell a storyline of a father who doesn't actually exists trying to help his daughter sort out her issues. Build the game so that what you do while playing Harry then determines how Cheryl acts during her sessions with Dr. Kauffman.
Instead of making the player think they are playing a traditional "save the princess" game, let them know that they're playing something far different. Build a rich and detailed storyline around that, instead of playing the "what a twist!" game.
At least, that's how I feel. The idea of Shattered Memories would have worked had it been a movie, because then the viewer has a passive role in what's going on. When you make it a game, like this, then it's easy to make the player feel that all of the effort they put out throughout the game was for nothing. (Yes, it was for the sake of Harry's daughter, but there's still that lack of payoff for what the player has been through.)
I'm going to have to say I completely disagree with everything you said.shidoshi said:
To use another film reference, the Great Wizard of Oz isn't nearly as powerful or terrifying if you know about the man behind the curtain. The fact of the matter is that you CANNOT know Harry's reality, because if you did, learning of it would not nearly be so traumatizing. Once you learn about Harry's reality, you are ripped from your delusions. Your ideas of Harry, the man you've been playing for the past 5 or so hours as yourself, are shown to be simply a passing ghost. At the very end, you want as much as Cheryl that Harry is alive and well, that the vessel you poured your heart and soul into in the shape of beliefs, perceptions, personal prejudices, and understandings is more than just a bizarre illusion, created by an empathic town or a mental delusion. It's like having a close intimate friend that just up and disappeared as though he was never there.
No, you are meant to feel at least a measure of what Cheryl feels for her father. You're meant to look on Harry and come to a sudden and traumatic revelation that your relationship to the character known as Harry is empty and false and feel a loss by it. That is your reward, loss. This is a game where the whole point is to lose. This is why Harry's and by extension your reality cannot be revealed, because in order for you to lose, you must first think you're winning. You look for answers and the simple fatherly instinct to protect your precious offspring, and end up with the grim truth of loss, that it must be accepted and carried openly. The whole journey wasn't for Cheryl, it wasn't even for Harry, it was for the player. Many horror games ask you to face your fears, but Shattered Memories asks you to face yourself, and then it shows the mirror they gave you is really just a figment of your imagination. It's very nihilistic, but the understanding and acceptance of such loss makes that which we win much more precious. This game is a statement, but not one of the developers, but rather a statement of the players, and that's why there must be a twist, because without it the game is meaningless. Ironic that it gives you such profound meaning by taking away the entire meaning of the game in a scant 5 minute tirade by Dr. K.
No, you are meant to feel at least a measure of what Cheryl feels for her father. You're meant to look on Harry and come to a sudden and traumatic revelation that your relationship to the character known as Harry is empty and false and feel a loss by it. That is your reward, loss. This is a game where the whole point is to lose. This is why Harry's and by extension your reality cannot be revealed, because in order for you to lose, you must first think you're winning. You look for answers and the simple fatherly instinct to protect your precious offspring, and end up with the grim truth of loss, that it must be accepted and carried openly. The whole journey wasn't for Cheryl, it wasn't even for Harry, it was for the player. Many horror games ask you to face your fears, but Shattered Memories asks you to face yourself, and then it shows the mirror they gave you is really just a figment of your imagination. It's very nihilistic, but the understanding and acceptance of such loss makes that which we win much more precious. This game is a statement, but not one of the developers, but rather a statement of the players, and that's why there must be a twist, because without it the game is meaningless. Ironic that it gives you such profound meaning by taking away the entire meaning of the game in a scant 5 minute tirade by Dr. K.
Another reason why I love the game, I can have a huge block of blacked out text involving very in depth discussions on the implications of the design. Haven't had something like this since No More Heroes and Little King's Story (and then again with NMH2).
SlipperySlope
Banned
shidoshi said:
This reply will be shorter. Got work tomorrow.
Why doesn't the game let you know that Harry is dead at the beginning? I personally think it's because you're playing as Harry through Cheryl. He's just a figment of her imagination. Thus, if she thinks he is alive, then he thinks he is alive. The game is extremely introspective. As is usually the case for somebody who is depressed or delusional.
The goal of imagination Harry is to save his daughter. And in the end, he accomplishes just that. He saved his daughter. Not in the way he or we were thinking. That's what makes this game unique. How many other times do you save somebody through this method? The story and ending took some balls, and I think it payed off.
When I completed the game, I recalled periods in my own life where I lost somebody I loved. I actually had periods of delusions myself where I'd think they were still alive. I'd have dreams where they were still alive and everything was OK.
Then when you come to that sudden realization that they are gone forever, it's completely heart breaking. You feel so hopeless. So lost. And the feeling is just so sudden. So profound. I never cry. But when that hit, I cried like a little baby.
It's that memory of my own realization, and seeing exactly when Cheryl realizes it in the ending and her reaction, that it seems so real. So powerful. I feel connected to her. I can actually connect her realization to mine, which makes her character more real to me than any other character in any other medium ever.
Why doesn't the game let you know that Harry is dead at the beginning? I personally think it's because you're playing as Harry through Cheryl. He's just a figment of her imagination. Thus, if she thinks he is alive, then he thinks he is alive. The game is extremely introspective. As is usually the case for somebody who is depressed or delusional.
The goal of imagination Harry is to save his daughter. And in the end, he accomplishes just that. He saved his daughter. Not in the way he or we were thinking. That's what makes this game unique. How many other times do you save somebody through this method? The story and ending took some balls, and I think it payed off.
When I completed the game, I recalled periods in my own life where I lost somebody I loved. I actually had periods of delusions myself where I'd think they were still alive. I'd have dreams where they were still alive and everything was OK.
Then when you come to that sudden realization that they are gone forever, it's completely heart breaking. You feel so hopeless. So lost. And the feeling is just so sudden. So profound. I never cry. But when that hit, I cried like a little baby.
It's that memory of my own realization, and seeing exactly when Cheryl realizes it in the ending and her reaction, that it seems so real. So powerful. I feel connected to her. I can actually connect her realization to mine, which makes her character more real to me than any other character in any other medium ever.
What you call just ashidoshi said:
cheap "what a twist!" moment is actually a long build up to that reveal (something we rarely see in games, as they all tend to be as in-your-face as possible). Let's say you got to know the truth about Harry in the beginning, or halfway through the game. Would it have had the same impact it had after what you went through the whole game, constantly looking for Cheryl's whereabouts? Of course not. And what could that early reveal have led to exactly? If anything, letting the player know he's playing as a ghost or a memory in advance would have cheapened the game itself, as Harry's purpose (roaming through Cheryl's memories while she tries to finally let him go) would look far less compelling to the player than saving her from unknown horrors (that aren't actually there, but the player doesn't know it till the very end).
I know you feel like in the end you accomplished nothing, but I believe it's because you're underestimating Harry's role in the whole process: making Cheryl realize he's just a memory she needs to forget to go on with her life (and this regardless of Harry being just in her head or actually wandering through the town like Maria in SH2, element intentionally left to the player's imagination, as his role is exactly the same in both cases).
I know you feel like in the end you accomplished nothing, but I believe it's because you're underestimating Harry's role in the whole process: making Cheryl realize he's just a memory she needs to forget to go on with her life (and this regardless of Harry being just in her head or actually wandering through the town like Maria in SH2, element intentionally left to the player's imagination, as his role is exactly the same in both cases).
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The Yahtzee review was meh. I was expecting him to rip into it. I feel let down by his...lack of anger.
***ENDING SPOILERS***
My initial and simple interpretation of the game was that
The opening menu reiterates this too and I think the ending does as well.
My initial and simple interpretation of the game was that
your actions and Harry-experience within the game define Cheryl's memory of her father. Your input is her memory and everything Harry was (retroactively). In effect, you are Harry living in the mind of Cheryl.
The opening menu reiterates this too and I think the ending does as well.
Ending spoilarz here. I Push Fat Kids, you may want to write that explicitly (the part you left unspoiled may have some people believe you're talking about stuff that happens near the beginning, and someone could highlight the tagged part by mistake).
Yep. The player does definitelyI Push Fat Kids said:
define her memories, because you're essentially playing as Cheryl during her therapy and recounting them. So, with your actions throughout the game, you're essentially talking to the shrink the whole time.
I edited and thanks
I think the ending reveal heightens the impact of this idea ten fold. It's just such a great device that I can't see any other medium accomplishing quite as well.
Also, seeing this thread hover near the front page 5+ months after release warms my heart.... Goddamn it, I'm playing through it again :lol
I think the ending reveal heightens the impact of this idea ten fold. It's just such a great device that I can't see any other medium accomplishing quite as well.
Also, seeing this thread hover near the front page 5+ months after release warms my heart.... Goddamn it, I'm playing through it again :lol
Indeed.I Push Fat Kids said:
I believe Shattered Memories, after a very slow start that lasts till after the woods, has a pretty awesome pacing. All the hints and reveals are distributed throughout the game, don't feel forced and keep you wondering what the hell is going on till the very end. Every part feels like it has about the right length (except maybe the "nowhere"), and the psych profiling influencing the game world - even though it doesn't really influence the story - makes perfect sense once you put it in context with the ending reveal. User interactivity is one of the greatest strengths of this medium, and SM was another step in a direction I personally find very intriguing.
It's certainly my favourite Wii game and in general one of the games I liked most over the last few years, so I'm happy people keep discussing it and more people start playing it.I Push Fat Kids said:
Okay, let me say this. I understand what the last couple of posts replying to me are saying. I get that that was the point of the game, and it's a point that I can completely appreciate.
My problem is that, for me at least, I felt that the game just totally failed at doing that. I have absolutely no problem playing from the perspective of
, and everything that was meant to entail. It's a great idea, except it was executed through a game that I felt was a complete mess. Had you kept that core idea, that storyline concept, and produced a much better game to support it, I'd back the idea 110%.
For me, the gameplay and the storyline are just too far apart from each other in what they need to be, which is why I guess I could accept SM more with what we were given if the storyline wasn't what it is. To go back to The Sixth Sense, or Wizard of Oz (as it was mentioned), those were tales where when the big reveal happened, what had come before that moment was well-crafted and supported that revelation. I simply didn't feel that in SM, which is why it does feel so much like a "what a twist!" situation to me.
So, I'm not arguing that the concept of what we were given here doesn't work: I'm arguing that it doesn't work in relation to SM as a game, at least for me.
I don't know. No matter what some people might think, I really wanted to like the game, and I'm still baffled by how different my opinion of it seems to be from some of you others. When I played through the game for a second time, I struggled to get through it, and I was just constantly reminded by how utterly un-enjoyable I found the game as a whole. I can appreciate the story, but couldn't get over just how awful I found the game itself.
For the podcast that I linked to before, my guest Steve was telling me how he loved Silent Hill 2 for the narrative but thought it was an utterly terrible game. For me, SH2 wasn't an amazing game, but I still really enjoyed it as a videogame and as a story. I can't enjoy SM as a videogame, and I think that helps to seriously ruin the elements that I may have really appreciated otherwise.
My problem is that, for me at least, I felt that the game just totally failed at doing that. I have absolutely no problem playing from the perspective of
Harry through Cheryl
For me, the gameplay and the storyline are just too far apart from each other in what they need to be, which is why I guess I could accept SM more with what we were given if the storyline wasn't what it is. To go back to The Sixth Sense, or Wizard of Oz (as it was mentioned), those were tales where when the big reveal happened, what had come before that moment was well-crafted and supported that revelation. I simply didn't feel that in SM, which is why it does feel so much like a "what a twist!" situation to me.
So, I'm not arguing that the concept of what we were given here doesn't work: I'm arguing that it doesn't work in relation to SM as a game, at least for me.
I don't know. No matter what some people might think, I really wanted to like the game, and I'm still baffled by how different my opinion of it seems to be from some of you others. When I played through the game for a second time, I struggled to get through it, and I was just constantly reminded by how utterly un-enjoyable I found the game as a whole. I can appreciate the story, but couldn't get over just how awful I found the game itself.
For the podcast that I linked to before, my guest Steve was telling me how he loved Silent Hill 2 for the narrative but thought it was an utterly terrible game. For me, SH2 wasn't an amazing game, but I still really enjoyed it as a videogame and as a story. I can't enjoy SM as a videogame, and I think that helps to seriously ruin the elements that I may have really appreciated otherwise.