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[SkylineRKR]

FFVII Remake isn't even a complete game. And since they are separate products, you'll start gimped every single sequel.

For me Rebirth was a solid game on its own, in terms of content, though the 2010 Ubi checklist design was quite baffling. But the overall atmosphere and tone is lost. The original was gritty and bleak, with moments of joy inbetween. The minigames were paced accordingly, the bulk were left for the gold saucer side area. By the time you reach gold saucer in Rebirth, you'll likely curse those minigames to hell.

I am sure a DQVII ish or SO2 ish remake of FFVII would've been the better choice. This new one if a hollow shell, a cash grab that luckily fails commercially.

Looking back on it, FF XVI was a pitiful game. It started really strong and by the end of it I was bored out of my mind. Character progression is lame, Characters were bland with no growth. Deaths were unearned, and didn't hold any emotional weight. Side quests were abysmal. Comparing it with Clair Obscur is a blasphemy imo.

When Stellar Blade has better RPG mechanics and world building than FFXVI something is def. off.

 

[L*][*N*K]

At this point, Square should get the clue on what the fans want.

Or here is another crazy idea, have a vision and balls to stick to it, how about that?? They really don't have it anymore they just make whatever they think the fans want

 

[emivita]

And FFXIII was also the last truly good real time turn based Final Fantasy and possibly JRPG in general. Since they were chasing Western trends, they are failing.

 

[Garnox]

I haven't truly loved an FF game in close to 20 years. Square has absolutely no idea what they're doing with the series anymore. It feels like a shambling corpse they're trying to milk, and Square seems actively ashamed of its roots. The visionaries are gone.

 

[Lambogenie]

Can't say I agree fully.

FF was changing things up. One generation of fans isn't the same as another. And we see that with such divisive entries like VIII and XIII. The DNA was cool characters, FF monster icons and good gameplay. And music...and graphics...

FFXV fumbling still bothers me. It's ripe for an enhanced remaster with new gameplay additions and fleshed out story beats.

XIII-2 is a fantastic game though. Just pretend it's an isolated affair guest starring Lightning. Great gameplay and music is amazing.

I think the main things E33 proves is lean teams, lean budget for the size of game it is, it's good. That's something I hope SE could do more of.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Is this fanfiction VII Remake what fans were asking for? Definitely wasn't what this fan was asking for. I don't think that qualifies.

Dude...back in 2015 when Sony announced this remake everyone lost their shit.



This was the collective reaction in most screens out there. It was that big.

The thing is...dividing a game in 3 parts is just not it. This announcement was in 2015 and we may get the third part in like 2028 lol.

 

[xcalibersa]

FF16 - got bored and stopped playing
FF7 Rebirth - Amazing game

 

[PeteBull]

We know last mainline FF that was financial success is ff15 with over 10m copies sold, ff16 bombed hard with under 4m copies sold as of now- having played both i fully understand why, ofc ff15 had its flaws but ff16 is pure borefest...
Hoping ff7-3 gonna sell well and by then we at least get to see proper ff17 reveal trailer- i wanna be hyped new FF again here =D

 

[Rran]

My super-unpopular opinion is that FF lost the plot wayyyy back with FFX. The Nomura cheese got so overwhelming by that point I couldn't take it anymore. Dumb ridiculous teeny-bopper characters with dumb, ridiculous outfits. My kingdom for a character like Cyan again.

On that note, FFVI is like the greatest game ever made though. So part of me still hopes FF can find the way again. But in the meantime, I'm still enjoying its older, hotter sister DQ with every release.

 

[Lokaum D+]

I got to around one hour from the end of XVI and it was just too boring. A one-character journey without a true world to explore didnt feel like FF. Clive's personal emo story simply can't be the main story...it was exhaustingly boring. His brother and kingdom? Hard to care for them that much.

My favorite thing about FF stories is that they usually start small and then go global (Meteor, SEED Garden to Ultimecia, forgot Zidane's story, sin/yu yevon). XVI just felt empty

wtf are you talking about it ?

Clive personal story is literally the game starting small, then it becomes a race to stop Ultima from taking over and destroying the world, Ultima even cast a "Primogenesis" all over the world like Meteor at the last part of the game, so once more, WTF ARE U TALKING ABOUT ?

i ll give you that the game should have more than ONE playable character, but everything else you said is just stupid nonsense of someone that may not even played the demo.

 

[Lokaum D+]

And FFXIII was also the last truly good real time turn based Final Fantasy and possibly JRPG in general. Since they were chasing Western trends, they are failing.

FFXIII had a almost perfect ATB combat, but the paradigms thing just killed for me, controlling just one character in a party based game was an awful decision imo, also it has the worst cast of characters of any FF game i played ( i played all since 6 ), OST was good.

 

[GHound]

My super-unpopular opinion is that FF lost the plot wayyyy back with FFX. The Nomura cheese got so overwhelming by that point I couldn't take it anymore. Dumb ridiculous teeny-bopper characters with dumb, ridiculous outfits. My kingdom for a character like Cyan again.

On that note, FFVI is like the greatest game ever made though. So part of me still hopes FF can find the way again. But in the meantime, I'm still enjoying its older, hotter sister DQ with every release.

John SQEX, the secret CEO of SQEX and owner of Final Fantasy, needs you to call him by his real name or the main character in FF17 is going to be a femboy in booty shorts made entirely out of zippers.

 

[Zephyranthes]

I would say that Final Fantasy X was the last one to not be strongly influenced by Square trend-chasing after something.

FFXII was Square trend-chasing World of Warcraft.
FFXIII was Square trend-chasing action games.
FFXV was Square trend-chasing open world games.
FFXVI was Square trend-chasing Game of Thrones.

That's not to say that I think FFXIII is a bad game; I actually liked it despite its flaws. Its existence also ended up bringing us FFXIII-2, which I think is one of the best JRPGs of its generation.

And then there's Lightning Returns, which is far-and-away the worst single player Final Fantasy game I've ever played. Not sure what Square was thinking with that one.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

They should just make a Xenogears remake... but stick to the original story and don't inject a bunch of bullshit.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

My super-unpopular opinion is that FF lost the plot wayyyy back with FFX. The Nomura cheese got so overwhelming by that point I couldn't take it anymore. Dumb ridiculous teeny-bopper characters with dumb, ridiculous outfits. My kingdom for a character like Cyan again.

FFX was the first time I ever felt shame and embarrassment for playing a video game. The dumb corny writing, squeaky voiced protagonist, the over-acted speech and animations, it was so cringe. My roommates were laughing at it.

Thankfully FF XII completely rectified that. It has characters who talk and act like adults with functioning brains. Sadly it's still one of the few JRPGs that pulled it off.

 

[supersale88]

FF16 - got bored and stopped playing
FF7 Rebirth - Amazing game

Lucky you, I pushed through 16 and it was one of the lamest ending in ff history.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

FF really needs to be on Switch (2).

Sony is at least trying to get back into the JP Market. Not sure if it has much of a chance of being successful tho.

 

[Synless]

It really isn't and I don't even like the original FFVII much.

Agree to disagree then. Only on the internet do I see a minority of people bitching about the game.

Overall user reviews and retail reviews have the Remake and Rebirth games as extremely well regarded bangers.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

Agree to disagree then. Only on the internet do I see a minority of people bitching about the game.

Overall user reviews and retail reviews have the Remake and Rebirth games as extremely well regarded bangers.

I love Remake/Rebirth. I'm with you. I think they're some of the best games Square has made. But I do agree with the negative perspective that Rebirth leans a little too much into Ubisoft open world side quest design but I feel often embracing the regional side quests felt worth doing. I'm disheartened by Rebirth likely not selling as well as SE would have hoped

 

[KungFucius]

FF 10 was my last FF.
I've put every FF thread on ignore.
Including this one.

Play other games. FF has overstayed by over 2 decades.

I admire your strength. I hated 10 but still managed to play 12, 13, 15, 16, and hate them too. I do kinda like the 7 remakes.

 

[Moochi]

Final Fantasy has always tried to evolve with new entries. It's only now that entries are 5-6 years apart that this strategy has backfired. It used to be that the improvements were using new technologies to enhance story and gameplay. Now they dont have even a vision for telling original stories or providing original experiences. They dont have the writing talent, and they seem to have settled with their bland art style. Then there's music. I know some people will die on the hill that FF14 has great music. I agree there are like 3 good tracks...out of like 500. Say what you will about 13. Story was a mess. But the its the last time SE impressed me with their graphics and music.

 

[RafterXL]

I actually liked FF13, but it didn't need to be three games, just like FF7 didn't need to be three games. Square never learns anything from their mistakes.

 

[PlayStaytion]

SQEX's biggest problem with FF is listening to what the fans want. FFXIII was the last game they made where they put their own creativity and vision first, and it shows. The art design, characters and setting still stands up to this day.

• XIV they tried to copy WoW, thinking that's what fans want. It was a pale imitation of XI.
• XV they listened to fans and tried to make it open world. Game ran into a ton of problems, but was still at least a bit interesting.
• XVI they cynically tried to copy almost everything; DMC, DBZ, Game of Thrones. There's barely a unique identity left.
• VII:R is the biggest example though. For a decade fans hounded them about how this is the silver bullet solution to all their problems. VII R will be the savior of the whole company and break records. Turns out it's not at all, and each entry is declining in popularity as they lost a decade with their best team trying to make something new. They lost a chance to make new fans. The opportunity cost of this nostalgia is staggering and they might not ever fully recover. They still have another game to put out of VII before they can even start the next one. Their best team, listening to fans and this is what they get.

Game development is far too slow to listen to anyone. You have to have a auteur with a unique vision. By the time 6 years pass from now, people won't be looking for a retread of Clair Obscur. FFI through FFXIII SQEX just listened to themselves. XIII was the first one out when online commentary was prominent and that commentary from fans is what destroyed the series. SQEX has to ignore them or die.

The present time is always shitty since the early days of entertainment, people won't admit it but it's the truth. I bet in 2030s someone will call 2025 those were the days and he wouldn't dare to talk about it now.

 

[Clear]

The present time is always shitty since the early days of entertainment, people won't admit it but it's the truth. I bet in 2030s someone will call 2025 those were the days and he wouldn't dare to talk about it now.

Absolute truth.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

I remember a scene in FF XIII that took place on a beach. It is a flashback scene set during a peaceful time before the story began. I think it's a flashback of Serah's birthday. I can't remember if you played as Lightning or Snow but I remember thinking "I wish more of the game felt like this". I want to say there were NPCs on the beach but I can't remember if you could talk to any of them. I just remember thinking the world seemed interesting and I wished I could have engaged the world rather than having the world of FFXIII largely relegated to only be experienced through cut scenes and data log entries.


(I think this cutscene is around the moment set on the beach I mentioned)

I remember another part of the story Where you play as Sazh and Vanille. I think they spend time at an amusement park. In most JRPGs, you would be able to explore the amusement park to an extent, but in this one, you don't. It just feels frustrating to have the gameplay of FFXIII be so limited in its scope of just corridor environments and battles. Having engaging environmental puzzles to solve as you move through the corridors could have been a way to add some meat to the gameplay (and I feel like Rebirth sort of adopted this). I just feel like the gameplay is a really barebones experience. The cut scenes are enjoyable. The world of FFXIII seems interesting. You unfortunately are just so limited in the way you experience the world. XIII really could have been an incredible game.


I have been meaning to get around to FFXIII-2 and Lightning Returns for years. I've got a copy of XIII-2 arriving soon in the mail and I'm looking forward to playing it but from what I understand, the world of FFXIII really isn't reflected in XIII-2 and Lightning Returns. I get the impression the tone and architecture is largely different.


Looking back.... the game frustrates me. I really believe it could have been so much more, but I do love Final Fantasy XIII. The soundtrack made me feel hope and inspiration when I first played it, and all these years later, that feeling of hope and inspiration when I hear music from it has become stronger.

 

[ungalo]

Rebirth is better than Clair Obscur i think. Also you're pointing out yourself that basically Square also made games suited to the "fans" already. So at this point fuck the fans, if they want to always play the same thing, they can clearly go fuck themselves i'm not even kidding.

Also i would really like the Lost Odyssey example to be true but the game flopped hard and that's basically what people are saying to make themselves look like expert, FF13 is slightly better than Lost Odyssey in my opinion. I can see why someone would state the contrary but in any case it's close.

 

[BennyBlanco]

FF has been bad for longer than it was good. It all fell apart when Sakaguchi and Uematsu left. Nomura is a hack.

 

[Bernkastel]

FF has been bad for longer than it was good. It all fell apart when Sakaguchi and Uematsu left. Nomura is a hack.

Mistwalker should make the next FF with Square publishing and funding it.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

Mistwalker should make the next FF with Square publishing and funding it.

I think this might be happening? Haven't there been rumors of Mistwalker trademarks suggesting a sequel RPG set in the universe of Fantasian? S-E published the recent console release of Fantasian.

Edit: sorry, I guess this wouldn't be Mistwalker making the next FF, it would just be Mistwalker making a JRPG with S-E publishing it. I hear that the first Fantasian game feels like a PS1 era FF though.

 

[emivita]

FFXIII had a almost perfect ATB combat, but the paradigms thing just killed for me, controlling just one character in a party based game was an awful decision imo, also it has the worst cast of characters of any FF game i played ( i played all since 6 ), OST was good.

I love how paradigms shifts were so swift and strategic, and later on in the game when you unlock all the roles for each character, you could feel the party sinergy for each possible paradigm (like for example, having 3 Sentinels would make the entire party a literal tank against the most powerful attacks).
Controlling just one character makes battles more focused and less distracting. Also, companion's AI in FFXIII is on point and they do exactly what you want them to do with their own roles. Just for comparison, FFVII Remake's combat system was clearly inspired from XIII, but AI was godawful and you can really tell by playing it in Classic Mode, which I think is the closest to FFXIII you can get.
Cast is just a matter of preference. Lightning is one of the best characters in the series, and Sazh is such a funky character. I also liked Snow and Fang.
And OST wasn't just good, it was S-Tier.

I've played all of them since the NES games, my absolute favourite is IX, but XIII is in my personal top 5.

 

[Valonquar]

Every game after VI has been a slow reinvention of the formula. Keep just enough to feed nostalgia but change it to be different enough to be something else

VII was just way ahead of its time compared to anything else at that point. Super long game, with lots of highs & lows. Tons of optional content. Materia similar to VI but with pairings now which made for lots of fun possibilities. Full party control.
VIII was literally built off ideas tossed out from VII's development. Triple Triad was great, and if you took the time to do it, it trivialized the battle content. Materia is out, draw is in... most people hated this. Me too. Full party control
Tactics was just a masterpiece. Took the job system of V and slapped it on top of Tactics Ogre. Great story, lots of job combinations to 4D chess around. Job board is the new Materia.
IX was the last hurrah of the PS1 era. I never really like the character designs enough, and also found the final super-boss Ozma really boring. Equipment is the new Materia. Full party control
For the PS1 era games, the charm of still having a world map you ran around on was a big deal for feeling like you were exploring a world.

X on PS2 was a system seller. We lost world map exploration, but areas had a lot of twists and turns, and mechanics to progress. Sphere Grid is the new Materia. World map is a menu. Characters are now voiced, for better or worse. Enjoyed it at release, but time has not been kind. Full party control
X-2 was the first game that was just too embarrassing to even play. I got to the first cutscene where Yuna uncontrollably dances and turned it off. It was a cash-grab asset re-use trash game. Fight me. Costumes are the new Materia...Full party control
XI was Square copying Everquest, and adding in-game cutscenes everywhere. Tons of lore and great story mired by impossibly difficult (at release) content that punished you for existing. Arguably one of the best storylines in FF history lost to time because most people wouldn't make it through the installation, let alone begining learning curve. Constant gear swapping optimal BiS for each cast is the new Materia.
XII is either love it or hate it. I loved it (but HATED the final act\ending) . It really pushed the limits of what a PS2 game could look like. Matsuno games always deliver. Job board is the new Materia. World map is a menu. Hunt Board gives us a ton of special fights leading up to Yiazimat which took hours to beat at max level. Semi-full party control, but mostly 1 character with programable AI for other 2\3.
PS2 era games were all over the map. Most only really played X which they loved, and then tried XII and hated it.

XIII on PS3 was Square's beginning down the path of "What if we just made 20 hallways and called it a game?" path of mediocrity in game-play. Graphically it looked great but felt kind of like everything else took a back seat to that. Battle system was much more limiting, no real superboss unless you count the dumb giant enemies with too many HP that were a regular enemy. Crystarium is the new Materia\Sphere Grid. Single character control with AI party. Very incomplete narrative overall since they wanted you to continue on to ...
XIII-2 new characters playing Pokemon with enemies. Complete asset re-use with a handful of unique new bosses. I found this entry to be the most enjoyable to play of the 3, but couldn't tell you a lick of the story now. Much more battle oriented of the 3.
XIII-3 or "What if we made an FF Ocarina of Time?" Utter garbage of a final act to the XIII series. More time spent running around a few town maps trying to figure out what to do than actually battle or anything fun. Lots of asset re-use.

XIV 1.0~1.23: "Let's remake XI, but with newer graphics and even more absurd player punishing systems like you can only level a class so much each real life day before you earn 0 xp. The maps were labyrinths full of enemies 100 levels higher than you right outside starting cities in some places. At release most people didn't have a PC capable of even running the game. By 1.23 most of the major issues had been fixed, but there still wasn't a whole lot to actually do at max level except a few inanse level grinds. Like XI though the story\lore was really good, but overall direction needed a lot of work. Most people never even played it since it was PC only.
XIV 2.0 (at release on PS3) was a total revamp that really improved everything. It is as much FF WoW as FFXI is FF EQ, but it does most of it BETTER than WoW (except the account creation lol) with a narrative that carries directly on expansion to expansion. Like all MMOs the carrot on a stick that is endgame is still a mess of some like it, some hate it. The game also re-uses assets from every 3D FF it can. Exact same skeleton & animation with a minor polish to the model\texture. Yoshida has actually done this intentionally to trim costs. Instanced dungeons with great boss mechanics, but uninspired hallways design of XIII everywhere instanced.
PS3 era games were um... TWO games. Development costs and infinite delays of XV really left us waiting. Since most never played XIV, that left really just XIII which was largely a disapointment for FF fans.

XV: A delayed game CAN also be a terrible game! All the early vs footage looked a lot more like it was going to be a KIndom Hearts style action RPG without the Disney. That would have been great. Instead we got a nonsensical plot full of time skips, one dimentional love interest, loading screens from hell. Ascension Grid is the new materia albiet extemely limited with few customization options. The game really had like 2 large maps with vast swaths of empty space. The car mechanic was clumsy and not very useful. Eventual slowly released DLCs did little to improve the narrative either. A full playthough of the entire Royal Edition with all DLCs is still a very incomplete feeling game. Graphically nice, battle system starts out good but quickly becomes a chore with little really NEW happening after 20+ hours.
XIV 2.1 PS4 released. Game ran understandably better than PS3. Much faster load times, especially if you replaced the stock PS4 drive with a SSD. Starting to show its age now on PS4 largely due to load times in starter towns where everyone AFKs.
FFVII Remake: First third, dogshit bad. Not even a remake, it's a re-imagine with lots of extra convoluted Kindom Hearts level plot nonsense. Materia is the new Materia except it's also an action RPG now and kind of sluggish.
2 mainline titles and 1/3rd remake on PS4. Sad days.

XVI: clearly made by the devs of XIV. It's a nicer looking, single player version of XIV. MMO style sub quests were largely hated. It's also an action RPG which turned a lot of people off. Some of the asset re-use and lack of enemy variety overall was a let down, but expected from Yoshida's cost cutting like in FFXIV. It has a good lore setup with a weaker story that def borrowed themes from GoT, and in places felt incomplete in a way similar to FFXV. The world map is menu similar to FFXII. Accessories that turn the game into a single button masher is the new Materia. The game is more cutscene than game a lot of the time. Quicktime events are not gameplay in 2023 but SE didn't get the memo. Bittersweet ending largely hated.
FFVI Rebirth: 2nd third of FFVI remake. A bit more on the rails storywise, much more colorful open areas than Remake, refined battle system, and fuckton of mini-games. Overall a fun game if still frustrationing incompletely narratively.
1 mainline title and 2/3 remake on PS5. Sad days continue.

 

[tibia]

wtf are you talking about it ?

Clive personal story is literally the game starting small, then it becomes a race to stop Ultima from taking over and destroying the world, Ultima even cast a "Primogenesis" all over the world like Meteor at the last part of the game, so once more, WTF ARE U TALKING ABOUT ?

i ll give you that the game should have more than ONE playable character, but everything else you said is just stupid nonsense of someone that may not even played the demo.

Sorry, the game was insanely boring. Now i remember the skinny figure "Ultima". Reducing points again for how uninteresting he is.

The only COOL moment in the entire game was the battle against Knight of the Blinding Dawn, specifically his battle entrance with the moonlight in the background +battle music. That blonde girl villain was fun. Rest of the game suckedddd, especially the pointless allocation of points towards move sets. Mainline FF selling <4mm is evidence.

Sorry, don't get mad at me for not going into details for a shitty game. It is gaming trauma.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

The present time is always shitty since the early days of entertainment, people won't admit it but it's the truth. I bet in 2030s someone will call 2025 those were the days and he wouldn't dare to talk about it now.

What? No way. Being a Squaresoft fan in the SNES and PSX era was fucking awesome. JRPG fans certainly weren't saying their entertainment was shitty.

And I don't see many people longing for the good old days of Final Fantasy XV here either (which came out 10 years ago).

 

[kiphalfton]

Maybe people should shut up and let square make the game they want, that way square doesn't try and appease people and implement stupid gameplay systems like they have the past couple iterations.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Sorry, the game was insanely boring. Now i remember the skinny figure "Ultima". Reducing points again for how uninteresting he is.

The only COOL moment in the entire game was the battle against Knight of the Blinding Dawn, specifically his battle entrance with the moonlight in the background +battle music. That blonde girl villain was fun. Rest of the game suckedddd, especially the pointless allocation of points towards move sets. Mainline FF selling <4mm is evidence.

Sorry, don't get mad at me for not going into details for a shitty game. It is gaming trauma.

Well, If selling low is a indicative of a shitty game, i think my opinion on Rebirth is at least validate now.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Dude...back in 2015 when Sony announced this remake everyone lost their shit.



This was the collective reaction in most screens out there. It was that big.

The thing is...dividing a game in 3 parts is just not it. This announcement was in 2015 and we may get the third part in like 2028 lol.

Absolutely. I lost my s*** when they announced they were actually doing it too. And from that trailer and all information available it looked like they were really remaking Final Fantasy VII. I could not have been more hyped and hadn't been that hyped for a game in a really long time maybe since Skyrim.

Then I got it and I played it. Then I lost my s*** again in a bad way when I realized they were just meandering with the story and adding whatever they wanted, several of every 5 seconds, Whispers and other garbage, characters like that dude on the motorcycle whose Name Escapes Me Right now. I hate all of that. Glad you enjoy it, but I sure don't. It's not Final Fantasy VaiI anymore it's a game that takes place in the Final Fantasy VII universe it's the extended universe.

It is what it is. There are things, as I have said many times, that I do like about the remake in terms of mechanics or visuals or music, the same can be said of rebirth, but overall it's not what I wanted and because it exists, I'll never get what I want. But, again, it is what it is.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Rebirth is better than Clair Obscur i think.

Worse opinion than people saying Expedition 33 is "the best JRPG" ever and that's a pretty fucking dogshit opinion.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Dude...back in 2015 when Sony announced this remake everyone lost their shit.



This was the collective reaction in most screens out there. It was that big.

The thing is...dividing a game in 3 parts is just not it. This announcement was in 2015 and we may get the third part in like 2028 lol.

Major problem for me was changing the great story of the OG game to a KH style multi verse nonsense shit story, its not the FF7 Remake that at least half the fan base dreamed for years.

Maybe with IA we may have a more faithful fan remake one day.

Also, changing the wall market theme from this



to this




made me hate the remake with all my soul, if they had the ability to ruin a simple thing like the wall market mood and theme, anything else was on the table to be ruined too.

 

[Boss Mog]

Square's biggest problem is that they spend their time/money chasing trends instead of sticking to what made them great.

 

[TaciturnWolf]

FF XIII vs Lost Oddyssey. Lost Oddyssey is often considered the real Final Fantasy XIII.

FF XV vs Dragon Quest XI and FF VII:Remake. The more traditional Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest (the series which inspired Final Fantasy and stuck to its roots) are more popular.

FF XVI vs Clair Obscur: Expedition 33. Once again a Final Fantasy inspired game is more Final Fantasy than FF XVI.

At this point, Square should get the clue on what the fans want.

Final Fantasy is whatever Square wants it to be. If they listened to fans the series would be perpetually stuck to the past with no tangible growth.

 

[Komatsu]

Considered "one of the worst" by whom exactly ?

"by whom"? Really? I'd have a harder time finding an industry resource that thinks otherwise.

Final Fantasy XIII reportedly cost $65 million dollars to make. That places it squarely in AAA territory. Gathering JRPGs of similar profile released between 2005 and 2020 and checking their uses scores on Metacritic, we get this:

#	Title	User Score
1	Final Fantasy XII	7.5 / 10 (Metacritic)
2	Final Fantasy XIII	6.3 / 10 (Metacritic)
3	Final Fantasy XIII‑2	7.0 / 10 (Metacritic)
4	Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII	6.3 / 10 (Metacritic)
5	Final Fantasy XV	7.4 / 10 (Metacritic)
6	Final Fantasy VII Remake	8.2 / 10 (Metacritic)
7	Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age	8.4 / 10 (Metacritic)
8	Kingdom Hearts III	7.9 / 10 (Metacritic)
9	Ni no Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch	8.0 / 10 (Metacritic)
10	Ni no Kuni II: Revenant Kingdom	7.6 / 10 (Metacritic)
11	Xenoblade Chronicles X	8.4 / 10 (Metacritic)
12	Persona 5	8.9 / 10 (Metacritic)
13	Persona 5 Royal	8.7 / 10 (Metacritic)

Final Fantasy XIII and its sequels are the worst received AAA JRPGs of the last 20 years, easily. It's not even close. And that's when we take a very wide latitude in defining AAA. For games that cost upwards of $50 million, literally not one of XIII's peers had a reception as poor. In fact, its user score across available platforms deteriorated in time.

You can check OpenCritic (52/100), Steam (Mixed), etc. Even Japan's Game*Spark, which tends to be very kind to Square-Enix, had this to say:

リリース当時は『Fable』『The Elder Scrolls IV: オブリビオン』『アサシン クリード』といった自由度の高いオープンワールドが主流になりつつある時期で、『FF』シリーズにも当然高い自由度が盛り込まれるだろうという世評が発ち、その反動で「一本道」と揶揄されました。

When it (Final Fantasy XIII) was released, open-world games with a high degree of freedom like Fable, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and Assassin's Creed were becoming the mainstream, so there was widespread expectation that the Final Fantasy series would naturally incorporate that same level of freedom. The backlash against those expectations led to the game being mocked as 'one long hallway' (or 'on rails')."

I could go on and on and on. But I'll spare the other forum goers the torrential mockery of the title that emerges periodically on LINE, Yahoo! Japan comment threads, etc.

 

[Clear]

"by whom"? Really? I'd have a harder time finding an industry resource that thinks otherwise.

Final Fantasy XIII reportedly cost $65 million dollars to make. That places it squarely in AAA territory. Gathering JRPGs of similar profile released between 2005 and 2020 and checking their uses scores on Metacritic, we get this:

#	Title	User Score
1	Final Fantasy XII	7.5 / 10 (Metacritic)
2	Final Fantasy XIII	6.3 / 10 (Metacritic)
3	Final Fantasy XIII‑2	7.0 / 10 (Metacritic)
4	Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII	6.3 / 10 (Metacritic)
5	Final Fantasy XV	7.4 / 10 (Metacritic)
6	Final Fantasy VII Remake	8.2 / 10 (Metacritic)
7	Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age	8.4 / 10 (Metacritic)
8	Kingdom Hearts III	7.9 / 10 (Metacritic)
9	Ni no Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch	8.0 / 10 (Metacritic)
10	Ni no Kuni II: Revenant Kingdom	7.6 / 10 (Metacritic)
11	Xenoblade Chronicles X	8.4 / 10 (Metacritic)
12	Persona 5	8.9 / 10 (Metacritic)
13	Persona 5 Royal	8.7 / 10 (Metacritic)

Final Fantasy XIII and its sequels are the worst received AAA JRPGs of the last 20 years, easily. It's not even close. And that's when we take a very wide latitude in defining AAA. For games that cost upwards of $50 million, literally not one of XIII's peers had a reception as poor. In fact, its user score across available platforms deteriorated in time.

You can check OpenCritic (52/100), Steam (Mixed), etc. Even Japan's Game*Spark, which tends to be very kind to Square-Enix, had this to say:



I could go on and on and on. But I'll spare the other forum goers the torrential mockery of the title that emerges periodically on LINE, Yahoo! Japan comment threads, etc.

I could not give less of a fuck about user scores as recorded on aggregate sites like Metacritic!

We all know their numbers are utter bullshit due to brigading and reactionary groupthink and not to be trusted PARTICULARLY in the case of titles that were particularly divisive at the time of launch. Highly relevant considering the historic backlash following FFXIII's release that basically ensured that Nier, which came out a couple of months later, received short-shrift by the critics and most users, despite it obviously being a superior release in all aspects but production values.

Quickly checking Wikipedia shows an interesting phenomenon where both PS3 and 360 releases have Metascore in the 80's whilst the PC release is much lower at only 65%. This is pretty big caveat you fail to acknowledge.

Also I have no fucking clue why you are so fixated on the AAA designation considering noone's disputing that, and in fact from a technical and craft standpoint the game in every way lived up to expectations.

What further strikes me as suspect and disingenuous is the way you also find time to lump in the two cheaply mounted sequels, part 2 especially leaning heavily on resusing assets from the original release... So are you going to give any allowances from that being far less AAA yet still having a decent meta-score, hmmm?

So basically, your argument is void because its clearly citing cherry-picked numbers to bolster your argument.

Try again.

 

[Signalis]

I'm still convinced that Square secretly shipped Rebirth to Ubisoft to make and never told anyone.

 

[Danny22]

Didn't rebirth get critical acclaim and a GOTY nomination and is beloved? Why is everyone always telling square what a final fantasy is then?

 

[hussar16]

Square does not even know what ff is anymore. They slapped ff title on a generic medieval fantasy added some crystals and called it a day. The real ff16 was supposed to be igni philosphi which turned into forspoken. Igni philosphy looked great awesome premise and art style.

 

[Noctis0Caelum]

FF XIII is one of the worst games i ever had the chance to play and, personally, fails is every aspect that can make a FF game a... well, a FF game:

- Horrible story
- Horrible world ('world ?')
- Horrible cast
- Horrible gameplay

Yeah no, totally not. The world setting is much more interesting and extensive than many think.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

I've been meaning to get around to FFXIII-2 for years. I've kind of been waiting for a potential remaster, but this thread and other recent conversation about the FFXIII games motivated me to stop waiting for a remaster and to just get it. I luckily still have the family PS3 and will start playing it today.



Let's go.....

 

[ungalo]

Yeah no, totally not. The world setting is much more interesting and extensive than many think.

i like the game but the way they present the whole background is one of the biggest flaw of the game, doesn't matter it's actually thicker when you read the files, it should have been conveyed through actual gameplay (and exploration)

the Fabula Nova Crystallis was clearly a complete failure

 

[Noctis0Caelum]

Dude...back in 2015 when Sony announced this remake everyone lost their shit.



This was the collective reaction in most screens out there. It was that big.

The thing is...dividing a game in 3 parts is just not it. This announcement was in 2015 and we may get the third part in like 2028 lol.

FF7 part 3 will release 2027, it had 4 years development by this time and its the 30th anniversary of FF7

 

[DreamcastSkies]

Didn't rebirth get critical acclaim and a GOTY nomination and is beloved? Why is everyone always telling square what a final fantasy is then?

I think Rebirth is up there with Square's best games. I totally understand people who wanted a 1:1 remake not liking the game or being disappointed in it. If you wanted something like ReMake on Gamecube, you didn't get that and I think it's a valid reason to not like the project. But I love it. I love the gameplay. I love the story telling. I love the music. Adequately remaking a legendary game like FFVII and getting most people to be pleased with what you released is sort of a fool's errand. But from a purely gameplay perspective, I think they successfully did it. Rebirth reviewed well even if the approach to the story and making it a 3 game project has split fans.