Pretty sure I've heard some BB players argue that recent iterations have degraded the netcode. The original Blazblue release had the best online play of any fighter I can think of. The more recent ones apparently have been noticably worse (albeit still good). I own both these games but admittedly never played them extensively online :\
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Skullgirls |OT| New age of Heroines
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SolarPowered
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I wouldn't call it noticeably worse, but it was not as good I guess. It is still light years ahead of UMvC3 though. Some people seem to feel Extend is an improvement on CS.
Same here. Almost cringe-worthy when I read that review.
wastedyears
Member
To say the art style is polarizing is putting it mildly. Some like it, others might think it looks like it was made to fuel a 12 year old boy's masturbation fantasies. Would it have killed them to make a game that doesn't 'feature' giant bouncing boobs and panty shots every five seconds? It really is unfortunate that the art style relies so much on exaggerated physiques and bounce physics that it becomes very difficult to take the game seriously. If the game was even half as good as the Skull Girls PR leads us to believe, then why does it rely so heavily on such a juvenile art direction?
Because that's what they wanted. Its what they liked. If they wanted it drawn in another way they would have.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Same here. It's terrible.
edit:
The artist / creator of the series wanted it drawn that way. It's not a feature, nor is it used to cover up a lack of gameplay(wtf).
I don't exactly agree with the tone of this, but I do agree that the art style to me is off putting.
I'm just a fan of playing guy characters in my fighters. I just naturally gravitate to bad ass dudes like Kazuya, Rolento, Guile, etc. I realize they are drawn/designed in exaggerated form as well, but I'm just not excited and hyped when I play a lady in games that aren't bad ass. Rarely do females in games get shown off as bad ass either.
Luckily, at least one character in this game does look cool to play to me, and that's Peacock.
Alright, now I have a better idea of where you're coming from. I'll hold off my rebuttal until I actually have the game in my hands and can set some time aside to mess around with her stuff and placement in teams.
Filia's DP may be invincible, but I don't really like the space it covers. It'd be better as a get-off-me move I think. Painwheel has that special where she revs her chain up and then propels herself forward that seems similar to Filia's hairball move. Can't say whether it's as good for lockdown as Filia's assist.
Go to secondapps.com/neogaf/ and tap any of the black bars once to highlight all of them.
Huw_Dawson
Member
The art style debate really just annoys me. If people in the real world can wear pretty much whatever they like, then the same logic should apply to depictions of people in art.
If someone was dressed like, to use the probably most sexualised character in the game, Valentine in real life, and someone had a problem with them wearing such a get up, I think there's a strong chance they'd get called out for it not being any of their business, or even that they're not accepting what the freedom to live and act as one chooses actually means.
Saying "I don't think she should wear X, as it's demeaning to women/makes me look bad in association/etc" is the same logic that is used to decry others for their religious beliefs, right? Just because Alex Ahad made one character have giant cleavage and break thermometers in it, doesn't make it somehow sexist or bad. Look at the male character designs! Panzerfaust is one of the most manly designs I've seen in years. All he needs is a mustache.
If someone was dressed like, to use the probably most sexualised character in the game, Valentine in real life, and someone had a problem with them wearing such a get up, I think there's a strong chance they'd get called out for it not being any of their business, or even that they're not accepting what the freedom to live and act as one chooses actually means.
Saying "I don't think she should wear X, as it's demeaning to women/makes me look bad in association/etc" is the same logic that is used to decry others for their religious beliefs, right? Just because Alex Ahad made one character have giant cleavage and break thermometers in it, doesn't make it somehow sexist or bad. Look at the male character designs! Panzerfaust is one of the most manly designs I've seen in years. All he needs is a mustache.
That sounds like the definition of polarizing to me.
DiscoShark
Banned
Yeahhhhh. That move doesn't work in assist form. It requires multiple button presses to rev up to begin with and that's not possible within the custom assist system. When put as an assist it'd literally be Painwheel coming in, reving up very slightly, and then going through the long un-rev process before leaving the screen.
You'd literally be better off with dash-forward as an assist than rev.
...
Huw_Dawson
Member
Not every character needs to have a useful assist. Each character is defined as much by their limitations as their strengths.
Even though the game IS designed over 5 frame input buffers, that isn't really true from my experience. I've played a decent amount of Arcana Hears 3 which uses netcode from them, and that game is definitely not built around it, but performs just as well if not better. I also agree with CT performing better than CS, but AH is up in CT territory.
The only GGPO experience I have is the godawful SF3:OE and SFxT online experiences, I really hope SG makes it work for me.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Doesn't she have that arching projectile? Sort of like Hawkeye / Taskmaster's arrows that shoot upwards and land falling diagonally. I imagine someone with a zoning Peacock could use that.
Some questions for the dudes who have been paying attention to Parasoul's stuff (specifically assists):
-Her tear shots can only be exploded by herself right? Others attacks can't?
-Can the Soldier cancel thingamajig be used as an assist?
And something for the Valentine peeps; if you pick one of her poisons as an assist (when she sets the poison) will she throw the syringe the 2nd time you call her or will nothing happen?
-Her tear shots can only be exploded by herself right? Others attacks can't?
-Can the Soldier cancel thingamajig be used as an assist?
And something for the Valentine peeps; if you pick one of her poisons as an assist (when she sets the poison) will she throw the syringe the 2nd time you call her or will nothing happen?
Huw_Dawson
Member
SFxT doesn't use GGPO, it just tries to use rollback to avoid input lag where possible.
I'd recommend spending tonight checking out GGPO. It's free, after all. There are also some amazing games it supports that you may well end up liking.
It'll also give you an idea of its limitations. It does look weirder when the connection lags, but the payoff is that someone in New York can play someone in London at something like Garou or Vampire Saviour and both parties will not have to worry about lag tactics or timing changes. I can't count the number of times I've been thrown or jabbed out of blockstrings or tech traps with the SF4 netcode, but that kind of thing does not fly in the world of GGPO. If you throw out a tech trap with the correct offline timing, and your opponent presses a button, they are eating that tech trap just like they would offline.
Terareflection
Member
I would recommend experiencing actual GGPO netcode and hitting up the online client.
sixteen-bit
Member
I guess that would be a good measurement for how SG will perform on PC if that were to ever happen.
The poster is not off-base by saying GGPO is shit on consoles when there is no example otherwise.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I think this is a fair observation and a point that isn't brought up often in these debates... although here's a thing. With all the controversy over Skullgirls' art style, what have female gamers said about it? Anything? Anyone bothered to ask a women in the fighting game community if they had an opinion about the game?
SolarPowered
Member
Edit: Down below
Those are some pretty detailed descriptions.
sorry
Those are some pretty detailed descriptions.
We were too busy talking about Kotaku and Brazzers.
sorry
DiscoShark
Banned
Parasoul (from Wiki) :
"Parasoul leaves Kreig's napalm tears on screen after Napalm Shot (← charge → + P) and Napalm Toss (↓↙← + K). The tears stay in place on screen and will disappear if Parasoul gets hit. After ~180f (3 seconds) the tears detonate, dealing 450 damage to any opponent caught in the explosion. A maximum 3 tears can be left on screen at a time. Many of Parasoul's attacks have a fire effect in their animation and the Ignites Tears property. These attacks will detonate any tears they touch, adding hits to Parasoul's normal chains if she can trap an opponent on top of a tear."
Soldier cancel can be used as an assist but as it only applies to Parasouls moves it wouldn't have any of the cancel properties for the point character you choose to use it with.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Skullgirls/Parasoul
Valentine :
The command for throwing a syringe (QCF+P, same as shuriken throw) isn't the same as the command for loading it (QCB+P). So if you have poison load assist then it would just keep loading the same poison each time you used it.
From Wiki :
" Vial Hazard (↓↙← + P): When using this Ensemble Valentine loads up a poison and leaves the screen. She will save the syringe for when she's on point and will refill if she's called as an Ensemble again. She can't load and throw the syringe in the same Ensemble, either with the Default Ensemble Choice MP version or as a custom Ensemble. "
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Skullgirls/Valentine
There were a few women complaining after the Eurogamer interview I fucked up, but the vast majority of the complaints about the way the girls look have come from men.
A lot of those few women seemed more upset by the bit Eurogamer cast as "we have a woman on the team so it's all OK" over the actual character designs, though.
come on guys nobody wants to play day 1? anyone else want in?
I'll be down to play Thursday / Friday with XBL people, though I work all day Wed / Thursday so I'll be even worse than everyone else. Blaming the seimitsu still (╯︵╰,)
Thanks, Disco. I always forget that wiki exists.
That's real lame about the Soldier cancel. I can understand why, but it still sucks. Mike Z stifling my creativity maaaan.
I'd like to know the reasoning behind Valentine's poison though. Was it just a technical limitation or a design decision? It seems like a waste to me to that she doesn't doesn't throw the syringe after filling it up (as an assist). I think it would have made for a cool assist. You get the poison shenanigans but you have to load it up first and risk losing out on a chance for extra damage/positioning and potentially getting happy birthday'd.
That's real lame about the Soldier cancel. I can understand why, but it still sucks. Mike Z stifling my creativity maaaan.
I'd like to know the reasoning behind Valentine's poison though. Was it just a technical limitation or a design decision? It seems like a waste to me to that she doesn't doesn't throw the syringe after filling it up (as an assist). I think it would have made for a cool assist. You get the poison shenanigans but you have to load it up first and risk losing out on a chance for extra damage/positioning and potentially getting happy birthday'd.
SolarPowered
Member
I'm in for this.
I asked him about the soldier cancels a long time ago. The implications of RC style shenanigans would have made her the ultimate assist character. A part of me hopes that Mike Z goes ballistic with a PC version of Skullgirls if it happens.
-Variable crossfever mode ala DC Marvel vs Capcom 1
-Crazy assist system that allows jump normals/specials, multiple inputs and permits all charge moves
-Multi spectator lobbies like the sites that allow us to watch several streams at once. Multi fight lobbies as well.
-Toggle switch for unblockable protection
Just some stuff of the top of my head. That would be hilarious and crazy.
ihearthawthats
Banned
i don't think we're on the same line of thinking here. no one is out to disrespect it, they are merely showing their dislike or disinterest for it. i mean i can't speak for anyone else, but personally i'm not offended by it, but merely turned off by it. there is a noteable difference between the two.
to use the same example that huw_dawson used for a woman that is dressed like someone from skullgirls. no, i'm not going to call her out for it, but at the same time i'm not going to approach her and ask her out on a date either. what this means in terms of the game, is that simply it doesn't appeal to some people which will cause them to not play it. and people playing the game is quite necessary for the game to have a healthy scene.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
People can wear whatever they like, but they will be judged for it. When I look at Skullgirls, I see a hideous combination of Flash games and loli/hentai/something. The associations that Skullgirls conjures for me are not positive. I'm interested in the game in spite of the aesthetics.
Edit: Mike Z deserves a ton of credit for getting gameplay info out there for people like me.
Vigilant Gambit
Member
Dipswitches would be dope, period, just to see what crazy combo videos people make with them.
Seems like kind of a strange comparison, since the game does none of the tweening that's Flash's signature, just traditional animation, and the only character currently in the game that could qualify as a loli (ie a little girl, not a woman) is Peacock and she's not sexualized at all.
sixteen-bit
Member
Fun diversion at best but man, System Direction combo video from SFIII3S is the funniest shit ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPQrtT5zuII
If Skullgirls makes PC, I wonder if it could be fully moddable- sounds like it would be an awesome engine for modding with all the tweaks and good ideas.
I don't think it would be too hard to make a SF-style game on the engine, or even a FF-style game.
another toggle idea
-being able to combo into ground throws SNK-style.
I don't think it would be too hard to make a SF-style game on the engine, or even a FF-style game.
another toggle idea
-being able to combo into ground throws SNK-style.
sixteen-bit
Member
Dat Umbrella/Peacock DFC. The writing's on the wall dude! [/sarcasm]
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Nevermind the Flash game comment. A fighter with just about the highest number of animations per character ever looks like a flash game?
Its straight up crazy talk.
Its straight up crazy talk.
I've seen this mentioned in some comments sections of articles of the game....I dont understand how it looks anything remotely like flash...maybe you guys made the characters too crisp.
It needs an arcade filter like 3SOE
HEY! that would be neat!
Well, apart from the netcode, the character shadowing and the infinite detection it really doesn't do anything Mugen can't do. The strength comes from all the balancing and design they did, not the engine. Also, like all 2D fighting games, you need tons of art to create a new fighter so that'd seriously limit mods (the reason Mugen characters almost always are rips from existing games).
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I thought the "flash game" comments, from multiple people, had to do with the art style and way the backgrounds were painted.
I.e. it's a stereotype that people who make "cheap flash games" use what is supposedly this "Deviant Art trash style" for the visuals.
That's the common meme I see going around these days at least.
The flash comments are likely due to the heavy laiden black outlines on the characters, the shading style, and the backgrounds. Ill founded, but I think that's why.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Oh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
I do have my issues with the backgrounds, but you have to look back a little and see what youre getting for you know, the price of a regular lunch
ihearthawthats
Banned
flash is capable of a lot of things, including great art and animation. in any case, i don't think technical limations should be misinterpreted as art style/direction. many people will probably stereotype flash for what it became popular for in the early 2000s by amateurs and hobbyists on sites such as newgrounds. i think that's probably what he means when he says "flash".
Rickenslacker
Banned
I take it anything that looks smooth enough to appear like vectors ends up seeming like a Flash game to those people. If the pixels aren't apparent it looks bad! Essentially they'd prefer it to look like this:
Always wondered, which character has the highest number of animation frames?
Probably day one DLC. Those sly bastards.
Master Milk
Member
I take it anything that looks smooth enough to appear like vectors ends up seeming like a Flash game to those people. If the pixels aren't apparent it looks bad! Essentially they'd prefer it to look like this:
Cleavage and underboob everywhere. I've never seen such a spectacle in all my life!
Huw_Dawson
Member
Great inspiration for a blog post, this topic.
http://writergamerfighter.tumblr.co...-sexualisation-on-its-head-and-why-you-should
TL;DR: Women have boobs, artists can design characters however they like, you shouldn't care how other people dress but it's okay as long as you don't force other people to conform to your opinion.
On Liberty, bitches. Still awesomely relevant 153 years later. Screw you Marx, smell you later Rand.
http://writergamerfighter.tumblr.co...-sexualisation-on-its-head-and-why-you-should
TL;DR: Women have boobs, artists can design characters however they like, you shouldn't care how other people dress but it's okay as long as you don't force other people to conform to your opinion.
On Liberty, bitches. Still awesomely relevant 153 years later. Screw you Marx, smell you later Rand.
ok we are missing out 4 more guys.
rules are 1 set, 3 out of 5. damage and time set to default.
winner gets a point, losers dont. since we dont have lobbies you may report the outcome of the matches in the thread or just update them in the spreadsheet. i will do a a random order for ppl to play, since its a ranbat everybody gets to play everybody.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Just for the record, though I don't like the character designs, I hate it on guys too.
I hate in SC5 when the armor gets broken off and dudes and ladies are running around with swords and thongs and underwear. Stupid, stupid, stupid!!
I love Hilde in her armor.
Can't wait to play this though.
I hate in SC5 when the armor gets broken off and dudes and ladies are running around with swords and thongs and underwear. Stupid, stupid, stupid!!
I love Hilde in her armor.
Can't wait to play this though.
Indeed. The 5f buffer is a misunderstanding anyway. BB allows you to hold a button down to autorepeat the input for five frames, but that's pretty much all you get in many situations. The game does have slow normals and other considerations, but AH3 is a port of an arcade game that makes no considerations whatsoever for this kind of thing and the online play experience is STILL one of the best around.
Of course, because nobody bought AH3 they aren't aware of this and keep clinging to the "BB was designed for online anyway" line.