XtremeXpider
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Skulls of the Shogun |OT| War advances on XBLA, Windows Phone, Windows 8 & Surface
- Thread starter Zeouterlimits
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I have the same problem with the full version on XBLA. Everytime I finish a level it prompts me to sign in for leaderboards, but I'm already signed in to Live.
Really enjoying the game besides that though, haven't tried out multiplayer yet. Love the writing, the second area boss was hilarious throughout.
Stronghammer22
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but no game on Windows 8 (from the store obviously) has any proper multiplayer. It's all "send a challenge" stuff. I don't know if the functionality is even there? Does Microsoft say not to include multiplayer in the traditional sense? The leaderboards are also restricted to your friends, no global in sight. It's my only real disappointment with the game. Async is nice as an option, however, as the only option? I started 10 games yesterday and after 24 hours only about 3 people have had their turn. It's going to take me weeks to finish a game.
A couple of other things with regard to multiplayer. How is each turn handled in terms of sending the data back and forth? It honestly takes a couple of minutes for my turns to send... My internet isn't that bad! Is there no "invite friend" option on Windows 8? If there is, I can't see it.
*Edit - you can invite a friend.
Looks good on Win8, some lowres stuff, but overall pretty pleasing to the eye
Also it's hard...
I've been recording videos of each level on normal, they might help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p2g4yNcIJE
I'm not saying I am a grand master strategist, but I believe I have a firm grasp on the mechanics of this game. Though, I do mess up from time to time.
Zeouterlimits
Member
a) All that Windows 8 stuff sounds poor, what are MS thinking? No global leaderboards in the PC version too? Bizarre.
b) My turns upload quickly on my phone and Xbox. 2 or 3 seconds generally.
So what happens if you try to attack a unit behind a spirit wall using your archer? Do spirit walls actually reduce damage for the units being attacked behind or in the wall?
Spirit walls are kind of wonky. They seem more useful than they actually are, but calvary can easily just go around it unless you have enough units at a small enough chokepoint.
Also touch controls really need some gestures instead of everything using taps I think. Especially annoying when the map has multiple interaction points such as rice fields/shrines/enemy units which makes it too easy to accidentally make accidental actions.
On the 5 action limit system, it is kind of interesting. But it also means there's less reason to actually overwhelm the enemy in terms of numbers. As long you can perform five meaningful actions per turn, you don't really need more. But maybe mass soldiers as walls/fodder would be useful? But generally there's a lot of wasted actions needed to collect resources/haunt locations and so far it might seem to be better to just attack/deny rather than do any sort of base building.
Also when exactly does moving an action constitute as a used action? You can move units around then cancel move to get back the action. But sometimes it doesn't seem to do that even after you cancel move. With the hidden items around the map, does it mean you can essentially do free scouting with your units and cancel move every time? Or does discovering an item constitute as an action?
Spirit walls are kind of wonky. They seem more useful than they actually are, but calvary can easily just go around it unless you have enough units at a small enough chokepoint.
Also touch controls really need some gestures instead of everything using taps I think. Especially annoying when the map has multiple interaction points such as rice fields/shrines/enemy units which makes it too easy to accidentally make accidental actions.
On the 5 action limit system, it is kind of interesting. But it also means there's less reason to actually overwhelm the enemy in terms of numbers. As long you can perform five meaningful actions per turn, you don't really need more. But maybe mass soldiers as walls/fodder would be useful? But generally there's a lot of wasted actions needed to collect resources/haunt locations and so far it might seem to be better to just attack/deny rather than do any sort of base building.
Also when exactly does moving an action constitute as a used action? You can move units around then cancel move to get back the action. But sometimes it doesn't seem to do that even after you cancel move. With the hidden items around the map, does it mean you can essentially do free scouting with your units and cancel move every time? Or does discovering an item constitute as an action?
Archers, depending on angle, can't get a shot on someone behind a spirit wall. They can shoot from behind one you formed yourself though.
As far as the moving thing, I believe it can't be cancelled once you attack or eat a skull. Finding stuff doesn't seem to force you to stick with it unless I haven't been paying attention. Demon units can't cancel once you do 1 out of their 2 actions as well.
Stronghammer22
Member
It is. I wish they would have kept some components of GFWL. I had a couple more turns, they're all quite long to send, so something must be going on. Who knows.
This. Use spirit walls to protect weaker units (weaker in terms of their defence), as well as to keep you from being knocked over ledges or knocked back into hazards. It is actually very useful, especially with regard to archers. To me, archers are one of the most dangerous enemies. They have long range, do lots of damage (thus weakening your units) and their counterattacks hurt quite a bit. This is where the spirit wall comes in. They can't counter melee units -- which is fine as long as you can get close -- but they will counter other archers unless they're protected by another unit in a spirit wall. The right positioning is required too. The second mission teaches this, but I've not seen anyone else take advantage of it in the multiplayer. Not that I've been able to play much! lol. I always go for the archers first and the best way to kill them is usually with my own archers.
It doesn't outright reduce damage. If you get hit, it's going to be the same damage regardless of whether you're in a spirit wall or not.
bigtroyjon
Member
My guess is that the Live functionality for W8 won't be fully turned on until the next Xbox is released. Probably still working on stuff and no reason to release a half assed version until it's ready.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Yeah, I hadn't actually thought of putting archers behind spirit walls before their attack, cool.
Except, you know, no synchronous online play in Windows 8 games. I would have bought this if Microsoft hadn't sent it out to die. It's too bad the developers didn't try to self/crowdfund.
My guess is that it was the intent of the developer and Microsoft from the very beginning to make this available on other platforms fairly quickly. It's not like Microsoft has been shy about releasing games on Steam recently.
They wanted to priorities the Windows 8/RT versions first because of the new asynchronous multiplayer that they'd never done before cross-platform like this, and also because creating games for WinRT (and ARM) requires a bit of extra optimization, and now that they're done with that, they can start working on things like a Steam version and such.
They wanted to priorities the Windows 8/RT versions first because of the new asynchronous multiplayer that they'd never done before cross-platform like this, and also because creating games for WinRT (and ARM) requires a bit of extra optimization, and now that they're done with that, they can start working on things like a Steam version and such.
bigtroyjon
Member
I don't understand your post. What does except mean in relationship to my post?
Zeouterlimits
Member
I think he's trying to say that if that's the case then it's bad news for the game and it's success.
That would be great.
I need to find better people to play async with, I've 6 games going and people are slow to take their turn if at all.
The WP OS needs better notifications on that, is it always hidden away in the Games App?
You should have a notification number on your games tile as well. you can also add game notifications to the lockscreen.
I have no issues with MS making Skulls exclusive to 8. Makes sense to promote your new OS. even though i have Win8 i decided to pick it up on the 360 and on WP though.
Dark Octave
Banned
How many levels total?
there are 5 worlds, 4 stages each. 20 levels total.
Dark Octave
Banned
I bet those levels can get pretty long huh?
Stronghammer22
Member
I don't know how, but I honestly went through the whole campaign without realising you could save. Good thing I figured it out when I was going for the gold skulls, as it made it a lot easier.
I find the Gamespot review kind of funny, given the complaints about the games difficulty here. One of the bad points is that it doesn't offer enough of a challenge. lol. I didn't find it extremely hard or anything, but it wasn't a walk in the park either, especially when trying to get the gold skulls. I think his point about the map design being confusing is fair, in so much that on some levels I can't really discern whether there is a ledge or not. The Chaos Canyon map is the main offender for me.
http://au.gamespot.com/skulls-of-the-shogun/reviews/skulls-of-the-shogun-review-6403167/?page=1
All in all though, I enjoyed this game a lot. It's been a good few months for turn based strategy, I hope it continues.
Zeouterlimits
Member
I've seen a few compliants that your General can be overpowered, at least against the A.I. which I can see being the case, but I generally end up leaving him meditate.
Got a few weird bugs last night, on Xbox. The "saving" message stayed on the screen for the entire session, so the matches were covered in black text just sitting there.
Got a few weird bugs last night, on Xbox. The "saving" message stayed on the screen for the entire session, so the matches were covered in black text just sitting there.
AgentCooper
Member
Sorry you had that happen. We're gearing up for our title update. For what's currently known you can check http://community.skullsoftheshogun.com/index.php
You're better off upgrading to a modern OS
mickcenary
Member
Zeouterlimits
Member
Multiplayer games picking up pace but still haven't finished any of the eight.
I'm late to the party on this one, but I just finished it on XBLA and even though I enjoyed most of it and got addicted to completing all the achievements, I think it's deeply flawed and can't understand why anyone would give it 9/10. Basically, all the innovations and unique ideas are what bring it down!
The worst offender is the order limit. I recognize that it's supposed to make the game harder, and people trying to move their entire army before the overly aggressive enemy capture all the power points are probably the ones who complain that normal is too hard, but the point is that it isn't once you realize what you have to do. You bring your overpowered general, two archers and two infantry and leave the rest to rot in your spawn. You can't possibly bring all 10+ soldiers and still have a shot at grabbing monk shrines and rice paddies before the enemy does, and your general is powerful enough to kill every enemy on the map by himself anyway.
And speaking of rice, that part of the game falls apart due to the order limit too. The fact that summoning a new unit costs you an order in itself just means that I ignored that part of the game completely. Gold skull for beating the level with X amount of rice? No problem, I never spent any of it anyway. I was rushing for those power positions with my five man squad and didn't have time to waste orders on new recruits. The only time my entire army was involved in the fight was if the map was tiny, and even then I'd leave cavalry or crow monks in the dust and ignore them in favor of attacking with my general 80% of the time anyway.
Pretty much all of this could've been fixed by toning down the enemy aggression just a few notches. In fact, they're so relentlessly aggressive that the best strategy for every map in the game is to not move at all. Every single enemy in every map will come to you one by one to get killed. That just ain't right. The enemies should've had positions they wanted to get to and stay there, giving you an opportunity to play the same way and creating interesting strategical dilemmas. Instead, they just all rush straight at you, with the occasional excursion to grab a monk shrine, and you're forced to either bring a 5 man death squad or camp your ass off in order to stand a chance.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating and I had a lot of fun with the game, it's just severely lacking in finesse and depth due to the design choices made. I feel like it would've been a much better game without the innovations; no order limit, a classic movement grid and enemies focused on holding key areas instead of just mindlessly rushing at you one by one.
The worst offender is the order limit. I recognize that it's supposed to make the game harder, and people trying to move their entire army before the overly aggressive enemy capture all the power points are probably the ones who complain that normal is too hard, but the point is that it isn't once you realize what you have to do. You bring your overpowered general, two archers and two infantry and leave the rest to rot in your spawn. You can't possibly bring all 10+ soldiers and still have a shot at grabbing monk shrines and rice paddies before the enemy does, and your general is powerful enough to kill every enemy on the map by himself anyway.
And speaking of rice, that part of the game falls apart due to the order limit too. The fact that summoning a new unit costs you an order in itself just means that I ignored that part of the game completely. Gold skull for beating the level with X amount of rice? No problem, I never spent any of it anyway. I was rushing for those power positions with my five man squad and didn't have time to waste orders on new recruits. The only time my entire army was involved in the fight was if the map was tiny, and even then I'd leave cavalry or crow monks in the dust and ignore them in favor of attacking with my general 80% of the time anyway.
Pretty much all of this could've been fixed by toning down the enemy aggression just a few notches. In fact, they're so relentlessly aggressive that the best strategy for every map in the game is to not move at all. Every single enemy in every map will come to you one by one to get killed. That just ain't right. The enemies should've had positions they wanted to get to and stay there, giving you an opportunity to play the same way and creating interesting strategical dilemmas. Instead, they just all rush straight at you, with the occasional excursion to grab a monk shrine, and you're forced to either bring a 5 man death squad or camp your ass off in order to stand a chance.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating and I had a lot of fun with the game, it's just severely lacking in finesse and depth due to the design choices made. I feel like it would've been a much better game without the innovations; no order limit, a classic movement grid and enemies focused on holding key areas instead of just mindlessly rushing at you one by one.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Looks like some folks from 17Bit are playing Skulls online later:
Too late for my GMT livin' unfortunately, but I get that.
Too late for my GMT livin' unfortunately, but I get that.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Thanks for the commentary. I'm always hungry for new, good turn-based games, and I was going to bite on Skulls (33% off right now, BTW) but I think I'll hold off.
I've toyed around with Banner Saga: Factions for a while, and I think it might suffer from a similar issue: its innovations, while interesting, might harm the game. It's clear that turn-based games are just incredibly hard to design well.
dancrane212
Member
Yeah I have the same problem on my end, I just end up alt-tabbing out of the game but it's still annoying when I have a couple turns to make.
Looks like I may have been right. Skulls achievements spotted on Steam:
http://devinwatson.com/SteamSchema/228960.html
Zeouterlimits
Member
Yeah, just came to post this myself.
Hope it's the case, and that the anywhere functionality is maintained.
Would have to be I'd say.
http://www.wpcentral.com/skulls-shogun-1st-update
Huge update for all versions including bug fixes and visual improvements.
Awesome job.
Huge update for all versions including bug fixes and visual improvements.
Awesome job.