Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods

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gat dang! valve and beth get 75% split between them?! jesus. i welcome competition to valve, they're getting far too stingy. personally I'm in the camp of removing this "feature". just add a donate button and thats it, no paid mods.
 
Paid mods...
Wouldn't surprise me if the initiative for this came from Bethesda.. yes we are doing it for the modders!! While taking 75% of the money. Just lovely.

Anyway, if I ignore this thing like I'm going to do, will it die off?


I don't even want to think of this but..
Do you know the text that most modders put on their mods in Nexus description?
It says something like "Please feel free to use my mod content in your own mods, just give credit where due"
And do you really think that text will stay there if shit like this paid modding would take off?

That's already becoming a problem, as the fishing mod from yesterday and wet and cold are mods that use resources from other mods.

As for whether or not this is a good thing, only time will tell. I think Valve's lack of interaction and people's inherent greed are going to submarine this thing, but...who knows, maybe we'll get something that's actually really excellent from all this one day.

gat dang! valve and beth get 75% split between them?! jesus. i welcome competition to valve, they're getting far too stingy. personally I'm in the camp of removing this "feature". just add a donate button and thats it, no paid mods.

It's interesting that the Nexus has basically revised their donation system as of this morning.
 
And? He still writes for Forbes, a major publication that not many people get the opportunity to do so.

That's a very dismissive thing to say.

Forbes contributors are basically bloggers who have no affiliation with Forbes other than posting their articles on their website.
 
Or you can read other threads? If you don't want to be in this discussion nobody is forcing you to be?

It's not the topic but how people are reacting. Right now it's mostly feelings based rage instead of informed opinions. It will get better when there is more information and people are starting to think more clearly.
 
And? He still writes for Forbes, a major publication that not many people get the opportunity to do so.

That's a very dismissive thing to say.

he doesn't write for forbes. Forbes contributors is Forbes free Blog service. absolutely anybody can write and be a contributor.
 
And? He still writes for Forbes, a major publication that not many people get the opportunity to do so.

That's a very dismissive thing to say.

While I agree with the article, he's right. These "contributor" articles are basically just blogs hosted on their site, and should not be taken any more seriously than something on Kotaku. That doesn't mean you can dismiss their arguments over it, but it isn't the same as something like Forbes actually weighing in.
 
Hey you guys its all about the creators, the artists... is not about those juicy transaction fees Valve is getting left and right.

Also hats!
 
explain, I can't go to the nexus atm, takes years to load.

the nexus said:
We are going to look in to loosening up our donation rules slightly. One of my main issues, to this day, with mod pages is how awful some file page descriptions are. Some mod descriptions are buried underneath change logs, latest news, FAQs, information about the author's dog in the vets and so on and so forth. Sometimes it can be a real struggle just to find the freaking description of what the mod actually does. I have not, and do not ever want a mod description tab to contain information about (or begging for) endorsements, votes or donations. However, something I will explore is adding a donation box below the main content area of a file page. So if you reach the bottom of the file description, there'll be a new box underneath that where an author can talk about donations with a donation link. A good use of that area might be to list and thank the people who've already donated and to explain what the donation money, if there is any, will go towards. That way, there's a specific place for authors to talk about donations that, most importantly for me, doesn't detract from the importance of talking about what the mod actually does. As I said, that's just something we're looking in to right now and, if feedback is positive on this idea, we could have something out next week. But until then our rules have not changed on specifically asking for donations in your file descriptions. It's still a big no-no.

On to updates we've actually made today: we were busy working on an update to the image uploading system to be far more efficient based on mod author feedback, but we've sidelined that in the mean-time to focus on these quick updates before the weekend hits.

We've made a quick, preliminary update to the sites that allows mod authors to show a donation information box before a user downloads their file. The box looks and acts the same way as the "required files" box before downloads. If you've used the site enough you'll have come across mods that require other mods in order to work. Some mod authors have turned on the functionality that will inform users who go to download their files of these required files. Now, as a mod author, you can turn on a donation box which uses the same system. When a user clicks to download one of your files an information box will come up explaining the donation system with a direct button link users can click to donate. If the user does not want to donate all they need to do is click the "Continue with my download button" and the download will begin as per before.

This adds another click to a user's downloading process but we think, in light of these major, sweeping changes we're seeing in our modding community, it's a very small price to pay to get the word out there a bit more about donations.

Many mod authors have expressed that they don't want to make a living from their modding hobby, but a free cup of coffee or pint of beer every now and again goes a long way to making them happy and content with the tens, hundreds and even thousands of hours they put into modding. And happy mod authors are often better mod authors in my book. Most of all, it doesn't hurt anyone. Unless one extra click hurts you (if so, you might want to see a doctor about that).

Is the nexus slow for other people? It's fine for me.
 
Probably people trying to get mods downloaded before creators take them down.

True enough.

I spent last weekend updating all of my currently used mods, just a feeling on the wind that I should do it.

I'm really interested to see how many of them become fully paid mods. Ill report back on the percentage after two weeks of this.
 
most companies are bad at communicating if you don't listen.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SRyUpR4qOxU
there's a 45 minute long lecture on why they were doing this and why it's a good thing from over a year ago.
And? It's still awful. 45 minutes lectures are plain awful as consumer communication. It needs to be where they are, when it's relevant, and this just isn't.

This needed to be said, on Skyrim's page in Steam, with a front page banner, two weeks ago. Let people rage, because as we see, they will rage, but there will also be questions they didn't think of that might be relevant from the consumer's point of view, but the FAQ didn't cover. Valve did none of that. They went "Hey, free stuff now costs money! Deal with it! Bye!" and that's all people ever read. And responded as anyone could predict.

Because, it is not the consumer's fault they didn't know. It is always the fault of the one communicating if the message fails. Always. You want people to know, you tell them. Directly.

So either Valve is incompetent, or Valve is malicious and did NOT want people to know. Personally, I try not to attribute to malice what is just as easily explained by incompetence... but others are not so kind.
 
Hey you guys its all about the creators, the artists... is not about those juicy transaction fees Valve is getting left and right.

Also hats!
Who would've thought a company would want money. Are you implying that people want to earn money. Shocker of the century!

Honestly, this is just valve experimenting like usual. Fallout 4 will be the big barometer, and hopefully with paid mods we'll see a much higher standard and better premium "mods" for people to make. I think this was put out a wee bit early, but Valve likes to do this type of stuff

Also, the 25% cut is pretty good considering you're building off of someone else's assets and selling it on someone elses marketplace.
 
Do they get compensated for their work? By this merit he deserves compensation for the time spent.

I think it's a combination of pay-per-article and free, indirect advertising for the blogger/writers' own sites so they can sell more articles and or stuff like books or even speeches/seminars. Visibility for the most part.

But yea, they DO get compensation of some form. It's not just writing for the love of writing.
 
So one of the flagship modders included in Valve's initial paid bundle is backing out from offering paid mods after one of his mods was taken down (by him) due to a potential copyright dispute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

However, it might not be that simple:

Real-time update - I was just contacted by Valve's lawyer. He stated that they will not remove the content unless "legally compelled to do so", and that they will make the file visible only to currently paid users. I am beside myself with anger right now as they try to tell me what I can do with my own content. The copyright situation with Art of the Catch is shades of grey, but in Arissa 2.0's case, it's black and white; that's 100% mine and Griefmyst's work, and I should be able to dictate its distribution if I so choose. Unbelievable.

Good old Valve, doing what's best for the modders and the community :')
 
gat dang! valve and beth get 75% split between them?! jesus. i welcome competition to valve, they're getting far too stingy. personally I'm in the camp of removing this "feature". just add a donate button and thats it, no paid mods.

Competition will arrive soon - when Blizzard and EA start doing the same thing through Origin and the Bnet.

Lord knows BF PC games are overdue for a return to open modding. And Blizzard should start allowing add-on writers to sell their World of Warcraft add-on and StarCraft/WarCraft modders to sell their stuff.

I mean look at what happened with DOTA...

And if Deadly Boss Mods became a paid add-on for WoW, I mean...CHA-CHING$$$$

Just wait...
 
So one of the flagship modders included in Valve's initial paid bundle is backing out from offering paid mods after one of his mods was taken down (by him) due to a potential copyright dispute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

However, it might not be that simple:



Good old Valve, doing what's best for the modders and the community :')

Wow, taking a bad situations and making it even worse than it was before.
 
So one of the flagship modders included in Valve's initial paid bundle is backing out from offering paid mods after one of his mods was taken down (by him) due to a potential copyright dispute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

However, it might not be that simple:



Good old Valve, doing what's best for the modders and the community :')

And see that the damage has been done or it has been done before this. What a fucking mess.
 
So one of the flagship modders included in Valve's initial paid bundle is backing out from offering paid mods after one of his mods was taken down (by him) due to a potential copyright dispute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

However, it might not be that simple:



Good old Valve, doing what's best for the modders and the community :')

Fucking hell that's gross. Can't have their new revenue stream cut off, can we?

Between Nintendo and Valve, this has been a year of my favorite game companies showing how ugly they can be.

Edit: Oh, and awesome. Apparently Nexus is actually profiting off of paid workshop mods, too. The whole thing is fucked.
 
Competition will arrive soon - when Blizzard and EA start doing the same thing through Origin and the Bnet.

Lord knows BF PC games are overdue for a return to open modding. And Blizzard should start allowing add-on writers to sell their World of Warcraft add-on and StarCraft/WarCraft modders to sell their stuff.

I mean look at what happened with DOTA...

And if Deadly Boss Mods became a paid add-on for WoW, I mean...CHA-CHING$$$$

Just wait...

Maybe I'm crazy, but doesn't StarCraft 2 already have a pay for mod/map system?
 
And? It's still awful. 45 minutes lectures are plain awful as consumer communication. It needs to be where they are, when it's relevant, and this just isn't.

This needed to be said, on Skyrim's page in Steam, with a front page banner, two weeks ago. Let people rage, because as we see, they will rage, but there will also be questions they didn't think of that might be relevant from the consumer's point of view, but the FAQ didn't cover. Valve did none of that. They went "Hey, free stuff now costs money! Deal with it! Bye!" and that's all people ever read. And responded as anyone could predict.

Because, it is not the consumer's fault they didn't know. It is always the fault of the one communicating if the message fails. Always. You want people to know, you tell them. Directly.

So either Valve is incompetent, or Valve is malicious and did NOT want people to know. Personally, I try not to attribute to malice what is just as easily explained by incompetence... but others are not so kind.

I'm mind fcked trying to undestand how its Valve guilty or something in this mess:

A week ago: Skyrim mods are free
Now: Skyrim mods are still free, Valve and Bethesda just give Modders the OPTION to get paid for his work.

How is Valve the bad here for trying to give the modders a source of income for their time and work?

We can argue about the 25% the modder get, but for the rest is up to the Modder to choose to offer his work for free or get something in return.
 
Which brings me to a new point. If this is self employment aren't they required to report and pay taxes on income, and to register as self employed business owner in full conformation of the business laws for the country they reside in etc? Is Valve checking this, at this point this sounds like this could easily be a giant unreported income thing.

Taxes can be super complicated, but in general, yes people would need to report income and pay taxes etc.

But there's no way Valve is responsible for the tax compliance of people/companies who sell through Steam.
 
I'm mind fcked trying to undestand how its Valve guilty or something in this mess:

A week ago: Skyrim mods are free
Now: Skyrim mods are still free, Valve and Bethesda just give Modders the OPTION to get paid for his work.

How is Valve the bad here for trying to give the modders a source of income for their time and work?

We can argue about the 25% the modder get, but for the rest is up to the Modder to choose to offer his work for free or get something in return.

The problem is that Valve now has a financial incentive to make free mods not work.
 
So one of the flagship modders included in Valve's initial paid bundle is backing out from offering paid mods after one of his mods was taken down (by him) due to a potential copyright dispute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

However, it might not be that simple:



Good old Valve, doing what's best for the modders and the community :')

post-25067-And-Here-We-Go-Joker-gif-Imgur-x71M.gif


I'd just like to restate, I always thought Valve's flippant attitude to all of this was the number 1 biggest problem. Modders getting paid for their work is something that should happen, but...not like this. This is a bum deal.
 
So one of the flagship modders included in Valve's initial paid bundle is backing out from offering paid mods after one of his mods was taken down (by him) due to a potential copyright dispute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

However, it might not be that simple:



Good old Valve, doing what's best for the modders and the community :')

I try not to swear, but man, that's real fucking shitty of Valve.

And from that previous Destructoid article, this is the big, horrific takeaway on how Valve views free mods (note that this is the same Chesko from the Reddit post):
stolenmod2-620x.jpg


Valve seems intent on killing free modding, or destroying their reputation trying. It's heartbreaking to see this happening, because a lot of wonderful things have been made for Skyrim through the passion, dedication, and effort of these modders. Skyrim would be half the game it is without their effort.
 
So one of the flagship modders included in Valve's initial paid bundle is backing out from offering paid mods after one of his mods was taken down (by him) due to a potential copyright dispute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

However, it might not be that simple:



Good old Valve, doing what's best for the modders and the community :')

Someone is going to find a way to defend this, I just know it.
 
Paid mods...
Wouldn't surprise me if the initiative for this came from Bethesda.. yes we are doing it for the modders!! While taking 75% of the money. Just lovely.

This is explicitly Valve's business model.

Steam streamlines the process of distributing and operating a video game on PC/Mac/Linux, Valve takes ~30% off the top and sits back.

Valve used to spend time and effort curating what games are made available on Steam, but now uses the community via Greenlight instead. Less work for Valve, more games get released on Steam, less inherent dissonance between Valve's curation ideologies and consumer demand.

Dota 2, CS:GO, and TF2 all now thrive on community generated content produced at a rate far faster than Valve could manage. Valve doesn't bother producing the content internally anymore, takes a big percentage, gives a small percentage but a big opportunity, and everyone wins.

Now with paid mods, effectively community DLC, they've created another mutually beneficial revenue stream that is largely community curated (barring copyright/fraud issues).

Gabe has even brought up the concept of the recently added curated recommendation storefronts expanding and eventually rendering the official Steam storefront obsolete.

All of this allows Valve to focus on, um, starting projects and then getting bored after three months and then abandoning them for new, shinier projects. And having Icefrog patch Dota a few times a year. Or whatever they're doing these days.
 
So one of the flagship modders included in Valve's initial paid bundle is backing out from offering paid mods after one of his mods was taken down (by him) due to a potential copyright dispute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

However, it might not be that simple:



Good old Valve, doing what's best for the modders and the community :')

Well he is angry and confused right now so valve tries to help him by making the most sensible decision for him. He will thank valve later.
lol
 
Suprisingly enough it seems many very active modders are not that keen on seeing something like that, and it has nothing to do with the split rate.
 
All of this allows Valve to focus on, um, starting projects and then getting bored after three months and then abandoning them for new, shinier projects. And having Icefrog patch Dota a few times a year. Or whatever they're doing these days.

Buying vaults full of gold coins to swim in, then realizing that actually really hurts so they have special suits made which generally reduces the pain of swimming in vaults full of gold coins.
 
So one of the flagship modders included in Valve's initial paid bundle is backing out from offering paid mods after one of his mods was taken down (by him) due to a potential copyright dispute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

However, it might not be that simple:



Good old Valve, doing what's best for the modders and the community :')

That is super fucking scummy, so unless a modder whose content is being used without permission has a lawyer they are fucked and Valve won't lift a finger to do anything.
 
So I assume you hate e3, nintendo direct, tgs, etc. This was at valve's own conference.
Different methods for different messages. You wouldn't read a changelog out loud at a press conference, would you?

E3 and is kind are big over the top events to go "THIS EXISTS!" It does that purpose quite well, although one could argue about cost. Nintendo Direct is sort of a middle ground, both "THIS EXISTS!" and reading of changelogs. Pretty difficult to pull off, they even use the actual CEO for it, which is just plain crazy. But they made it work and they need to be respected for that. Making a Nintendo Direct style offering, with the CEO himself starring and coming out of that looking sincere is extremely difficult.

But you cannot assume everyone watches these. They serve there purposes quite well, but sometimes you need to get closer to the community. That's kind of the point of community management, really. Know in advance what new things will excite and anger your community, and build up the hype, and lessen the rage.

To pull this one off, you'd need some crazy-awesome mod appear out of the blue at a low-ish price, like $5. This will be the measuring stick. You'd need to warn people in advance, directly where everyone can see it, in this case the Library page in Steam, plus make some noise about it to the gaming press, Kotaku, IGN and so on. Play it up like some huge "THIS IS GOING TO BE AWESOME! (But we have heard your misgivings.)" event. And then you can explain it in long form, in text, with pretty illustrations and a nice long FAQ page in Steam.

They only did the latter. That's not nearly enough. Not even close. Not for what is this scale of shift in the community.
I'm mind fcked trying to undestand how its Valve guilty or something in this mess:

A week ago: Skyrim mods are free
Now: Skyrim mods are still free, Valve and Bethesda just give Modders the OPTION to get paid for his work.

How is Valve the bad here for trying to give the modders a source of income for their time and work?

We can argue about the 25% the modder get, but for the rest is up to the Modder to choose to offer his work for free or get something in return.
I'm not arguing for or against the price tag on mods here. That debate is covered pretty well already. I'm pointing out how Valve could have gotten this going with much less drama, and maybe even built some extra goodwill off it. Instead of seeing "Kill Lord Gaben" mods pop up in the Workshop. That's just uncalled for. Predictable with the way they handled this, but uncalled for.
 
Maybe I'm crazy, but doesn't StarCraft 2 already have a pay for mod/map system?

So Starcraft: Brood War had a custom map editor that made a lot of great stuff, including the progenitors of the Tower Defense and MOBA genres. Blizzard saw profit in this, and so for Starcraft 2, IIRC, they planned to release an "Arcade" where people could sell their custom maps for real money. Not sure about the split, but given how advanced SC2's map editor was it seemed like it could be OK, at the very least.

The problem was that Blizzard completely killed SC2's custom map community by launching without a real Battle.net or custom game browser. By the time they finally implemented Battle.net proper and the Arcade itself, the UMS community was flatlining. It also didn't help that the editor was rather intimidating to use, which probably cut out a lot of fledgling modders from ever even trying. I don't know how it is now, but given that I would assume it's still irrelevant to the rest of the gaming community.

This is the sordid, unfortunate tale of Starcraft 2's custom maps.
 
But guys it's all about rewarding the hard work of these fine modders... Sorry, what's that someone stole your work and is using it in their own mod? Get a lawyer son.

Now piss off, we have hats to sell.
 
So Starcraft: Brood War had a custom map editor that made a lot of great stuff, including the progenitors of the Tower Defense and MOBA genres. Blizzard saw profit in this, and so for Starcraft 2, IIRC, they planned to release an "Arcade" where people could sell their custom maps for real money. Not sure about the split, but given how advanced SC2's map editor was it seemed like it could be OK, at the very least.

The problem was that Blizzard completely killed SC2's custom map community by launching without a real Battle.net or custom game browser. By the time they finally implemented Battle.net proper and the Arcade itself, the UMS community was flatlining. It also didn't help that the editor was rather intimidating to use, which probably cut out a lot of fledgling modders from ever even trying. I don't know how it is now, but given that I would assume it's still irrelevant to the rest of the gaming community.

This the sordid, unfortunate tale of Starcraft 2's custom maps.

SC1 UMS was my favorite game mode in any game ever. I used to wake up at 8am on Saturday and Sunday morning and play UMS for hours and hours. SC2 custom maps are so blah in comparison :(



Sorry for getting off topic lol.
 
Modders getting paid for their work is something that should happen, but...not like this. This is a bum deal.

Agreed. All of you saying that modders should be able to make money off their work are correct, but you're basically ignoring the bigger picture, which is that this implementation is a giant clusterfuck.
 
But guys it's all about rewarding the hard work of these fine modders... Sorry, what's that someone stole your work and is using it in their own mod? Get a lawyer son.

This is why you can't Open-Source paid mods.

Valve is going to have to incorporate a Steam-only DRM for mods moving forward. Like I mentioned a few posts back, some sort of encrypted certificate system that protects modders intellectual property (encrypted certificate files of some sort) and locks it into each individual buyer's Steam account so it can't be duplicated or altered and can only be used on Steam.

I expect that very thing to be added for Bethesda's next big PC game... (Cough Fallout 4 cough).

Bethesda's E3 presentation in June should be interesting...
 
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