Darth Karja
Member
Voting with your wallet works great. Just in the opposite way. Thats why we have dlc. Enough people bought it.
Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
- Thread starter Sendou
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Voting with your wallet works great. Just in the opposite way. Thats why we have dlc. Enough people bought it.
GHG
Member
How long before DSFix costs money?
He's on the phone to GabeN as we speak.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Remember the Stanford prison experiment?
Create a system that rewards shitty behaviors and people will become like that.
Red Blaster
Member
how much of a role did sony undercutting microsoft and gaining a competitive advantage in that space play a factor in overturning the drm?
in a doomsday scenario where sony was also utilizing some form of drm, i'm less optimistic that things would have changed.
PetriP-TNT
Member
What's the shitty behaviour here? Asking for money for a mod?
Multiply that on a global scale and you have the current state of late-stage capitalism, which is why I find it funny when people defend Valve and Bethesda, the already rich entities in this equation.
How long before DSFix costs money?
Third time in this thread:
Guys, it's possible to have a more nuanced view without being, or trying to become, a direct beneficiary.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Allowing people to steal other people work.
GHG
Member
Oh... It's like you haven't been following the developments over the last 24 hours.
If only it were so simple.
I love Bethesda, but exactly. They made the game... nothing more. That is where they rightfully should make their profit. Mods, on the other hand, have always been a community thing due to the open nature of the PC and probably served to make their game even more popular. But now all they can see is dollar signs because the community is so big and they feel that they need to cash in on it.
As far as Valve goes? LOL, they are just the pushers who want a slice as well. It's disgusting, it's greed and it infringes on the openness of the PC. Hell, I am not even a big PC gamer who uses mods and I can see it. There is no reason for this other than wanting more profit and they give the creators scraps as way of trying to justify it. This is probably only the beginning as well.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Oh crap, you are right. How did I miss this part of the FAQ
Oh I have.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I see how well is working, right now.
Modders are so safe that they aren't taking their mods down from Nexus, not at all.
What? Selling other people's work is both expressly prohibited by the terms of this service and a violation of copyright.
Seriously, can we have a decent discussion without making stuff up?
GHG
Member
I was joking.
But if somebody were to plagiarise it and makes loads of money from it, it would make you question your stance, it's only natural.
While it's (stealing content etc.) super shitty and absolutely should not happen, the last 24hrs do not represent the next few years.
Valve most likely hasn't paid any of those exploiters yet, they have already removed some mods after DMCA complaints and it's not like the system isn't supposed to cull down people stealing content (look at the FAQ for example). What remains to be seen is if Valve is quick enough to respond and fit it to handle the complaints once the service starts rolling properly.
I don't have to be in order to see greed.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
So you mean is NOT happening at all?
If they can't properly enforce their rules, then is like they aren't there.
If someone were to do that I would notify Valve, and they wouldn't see any money out of it.
It's actually easier than if they were just selling it somewhere on the internet.
They don't need a turnaround time of 1 day on DMCA claims to make plagiarism unfeasible. They just need to take care of it before money changes hands.
Telling people to issue a DMCA takedown is like telling someone to go after an identity thief on their own after their shit has already been stolen and monetized. Valve has to be more involved but they have an embarrassing history of being lazy and laissez-faire so this attitude on their part is simply business as usual. They don't care about who gets hurt or whose mods get plagiarized.
PetriP-TNT
Member
The workshop payouts happen once a month. Even if someone managed to game the system by submitting a stolen mod just before the pay date, they still would have to make a $100 bucks before getting any money out of the system (that's $400 in total sales).
Also, try putting up any stolen content up on Greenlight and see what happens (if you don't want to test your waters on the mod thing)
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
There's a middle ground here.
Too bad Valve chose the nuclear option and now it's rightfully blowing up in their faces.
GHG
Member
Exactly.
There needs to be some kind of formal submission and verification process if people are to upload a mod and charge for it.
Why they didn't think of this before and put such a system in place I will never know.
The idea of Bethesda getting anything, much less double what the modder gets is disgusting. Actual percentages aside, Valve at least provides a service by hosting and distributing the mod specifically. Bethesda got their cut when they sold game once, they shouldn't be getting 50% when someone else cleans up their shitshow.
The "nuclear option" would be preventing free mods. And if that were to happen I'd be up on the barricades with you.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
That is in the more clear and easy cases, stolen code or use of certain assets could take too much time before they could be detected.
And I'm not talking about only a fair use of the DMCA. When money is involved greed becomes a thing, the system Valve created allows for these kind of attitudes.
ashecitism
Member
Yeah, this has been a thing with Steam and Valve games for a while now. It's basically about playing the system and looking at opportunities to benefit from. Scammers, whales, betting, you name it. Valve introduced Steam Cards? People immediately went for the market. Some got a lot of money, "wow this is great!" then the undercuttings began "now it's shit". Steam Summer Sale colored teams? Reddit colluded to get x win on y day. Pre-holiday sale gems? People found a glitch and abused it. It collapsed, Valve shut it down to think it through. Valve announced Steam Broadcast? People immediately speculated about the monetization potential. E-sport scene? Teams throw matches to get items worth tons. The games? Pay2win and paywall events. Items worth a ton? Watch out for scammers and be prepared to get spammed by bot friend invites (if you set your inventory to public).
Valve is monetizing everything.
I am now totally not looking forward to the Dota 2 and source 2 modding scene. I bet their next game is going to be a shitshow given all the shit they've been pulling.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Yes, which is having free and paid mods co-exists together with the author having the say on whether or not to monetize the product.
Exactly.
Fear mongering rarely benefits anyone. It's better suited for tabloids than on discussion boards.
You gonna tell people that already sold or bought content to stop doing so or get refunds?
How long will it be before people get banned from steam accounts because they didn't use workshop for mods?
When will valve make it so that if you want modding you have to use workshop or else?
This is like a tube of toothpaste. Once you use some you can't suddenly decide to put it back in the tube.
GHG
Member
If that happens it will cause piracy. Both for the game and the paid mods.
We will have gone full circle.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
This is the troyan horse for that goal.
The thought that From Software would've been rewarded for DSFix and indirectly their 720p 30 fps lock disgusts me. I will have none of this.
What's up with the weird doomsday scenarios that wouldn't ever fucking happen? No, people will never get banned for not using workshop for mods.
A mini-neoliberal economy that encourages "healthy competition" (see how globalization works and how well 'healthy competition' works out for the little guy) while also adding the complication of making a passionate community (that had no overhead before Steam's paid mod market but conveniently showed up to create one) to go at each other's throats for meager corporate pittances is another form of nuclear option.
GMOD guy."Dont have money kid? Better start being a pirate"
Yup it's true i can not see any comments or ratings whatsoever if you pay for it..pretty disgusting really.
complete nonsense
Under this system they wouldn't have been. You know why?
Because just like now, under this system DSfix would still have been free. The author decides whether or not to charge for something.
Lanrutcon
Member
It's coming. You'd be silly to think they're not going to try, at least.
Games as a service would have been complete nonsense to people a few generations ago and yet, here we are. If you can't see the trajectories of certain concepts then don't act surprised when greed and speculation inevitably ruins something else.
GHG
Member
How so?
If they announce a partnership with Bethesda for Fallout 4 and say all mods need to go through the steam workshop what do you think will happen?
Valve has lost me as a customer for some time now. They've been operating a money making machine that works on maximizing money with minimal effort in some gross ways. I have no interest in DOTA 2, so what else is there from them for me. This paid mods stuff is practically expected from them.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Not as much as "the market will become completly curated and all will be flower and sunshines".
If Valve has success with this, why would they allow free mods?
until someone makes DSRepair for 3.99 with minimally more features and a lot more convenience due to the supported distribution of the Steam Workshop(tm)
Fallacious arguments are inherently easier to create.
Dean knows how to make some good points. Difficult to argue with many of his views.
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