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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot

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B

balladofwindfishes

Member
I wonder how Krystal fans will take her being lumped in with Waddle Dee, Baby Peach and Dry Bones...

Also interesting how the "bonus" characters of Brawl were a unique vet, a semi-clone remake of an old clone and Wolf, whatever you consider him. Versus every other game in the series where the "bonus" characters were just pure clones. They somehow managed to get a full non-clone vet, a 99% unique fighter and a semi-clone remake of Young Link at the "last minute" versus Smash 4 where we got one clone vet that ended up being semi-cloned because his base changed, and two solid clones with only one or two unique animations.

Also
If we had a bit more time, it might have been 4-5 characters
Click to expand...
We now know who those other potential fighters were. But at the time we didn't, although I wonder who ultimately would have been the addition 2, had they had more time. I think it would have been Mewtwo and Tetra, personally.
 
R

Ryce

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
But at the time we didn't, although I wonder who ultimately would have been the addition 2, had they had more time. I think it would have been Mewtwo and Tetra, personally.
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Definitely Mewtwo and Roy. Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik (or Tetra, if that makes you feel better) would have been a package deal since Brawl had transformations.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Ryce said:
Definitely Mewtwo and Roy. Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik (or Tetra, if that makes you feel better) would have been a package deal since Brawl had transformations.
Click to expand...

Agreed with this.
Mewtwo was pretty much axed in the last minute, while Roy had the second-most leftover data out of the "Forbidden Seven" (Mewtwo being the first).
 
P

powerdrain

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
Sakurai says Wolf was highly requested and they picked him over Krystal because he has a similar body to Fox, which sped up animation, and was more popular than Krystal
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/

If there was any doubt Wolf will be DLC. He was highly requested for Brawl.
Click to expand...

Similar body to Fox? Well you know that just means they didn't have time to do the all-important work on the physics for the tiddy bress...

JK, I think it's probably in part because she would probably have a more unique moveset if they went with the staff route, but still, don't see how different she would be to Fox, since they're a similar height and in the end Wolf's model was bigger looking than Fox anyway. Wolf deserved to get in first though, as much as I love Krystal and want her to be in Smash. StarFox Zero seems to have stifled that a bit since they're going back to remake the original StarFox story...again.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
IntelliHeath said:
Was Dr. Mario third character with leftover data? or am I mistaken?
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Nope. Dr. Mario had as much as the other characters.
All of the scrapped Brawl characters had character folders with their names on them.

Then on the music list, most characters had their own unique victory jingles, among them Mewtwo and Roy who are the only cut characters on there (curiously enough, the three mentioned in that article, Jigglypuff, Wolf and Toon Link, did not iirc, which means that they were added after the decision to cut Roy).

And Mewtwo had some additional leftover files, including an empty selection soundfile for the Wiimote (it would play some soundbite like Mario's "Let's-e go!" when you picked a character with the Wiimote).

The reason I think Roy and Mewtwo are the most likely is based on those fact, as well as the fact that both of them were veterans coming from Melee, making them prime choices to keep around.
 
M

MrSaturn99

Member
Host: I see. But we did get a lot of questions like, “Why wasn’t Krystal a playable character?”

Sakurai: It’s not that I don’t understand how that feels, but if you start saying that, it becomes “Why isn’t Waddle Dee playable?” or Dry Bones, or Baby Peach. There’d be no end to it.
Click to expand...

incredible
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Kjellson said:
That's pretty funny considering that I have seen people who thinks Bandana Dee has a big chance of getting in Smash.

Which is a Waddle Dee wearing a bandana.
Click to expand...

I don't think a lot of people think that Bandana Dee has a BIG chance, but it's more the statement that "if there was another Kirby character, it'd probably be Bandana Dee".
 
D

DICKS AHOY

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
Sakurai says Wolf was highly requested and they picked him over Krystal because he has a similar body to Fox, which sped up animation, and was more popular than Krystal
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/

If there was any doubt Wolf will be DLC. He was highly requested for Brawl.
Click to expand...
Nowhere in that does it say Krystal was more popular than Wolf, just that he was popular in his own right. I mean by now I'd prefer Wolf just since it's obvious Krystal probably doesn't have much of a future in the franchise and Wolf represents more,but back in '07 Krystal really wasn't this obscure choice she sorta is now.

Regardless, he got in because his body-type made him similar to Fox and if some of Brawl's left over data is anything to go off, he was going to be more of a direct-clone of Fox before the several month delay probably helped him turn into his own thing.

Also that 4-5 characters comment makes me think Mewtwo and Roy really weren't meant to be cut in Brawl if timing could allow it, whereas Dixie/Toon Zelda/etc. were probably off the table significantly earlier. If the victory jingle stuff didn't already strongly suggest that.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
It's kind of funny to think think that, if circumstances were different, and Krystal got into Brawl, that she might not have completely disappeared from the series in Zero. Smash has an unusually strong hold on the public perception of the Star Fox series.
 
P

powerdrain

Member
Green Mamba said:
It's kind of funny to think think that, if circumstances were different, and Krystal got into Brawl, that she might not have completely disappeared from the series in Zero. Smash has an unusually strong hold on the public perception of the Star Fox series.
Click to expand...
I checked in on Miiverse today and there seemed to be more support for her there than usual in the top/popular posts for DLC alone or bundled with Wolf, which I would love.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Green Mamba said:
It's kind of funny to think think that, if circumstances were different, and Krystal got into Brawl, that she might not have completely disappeared from the series in Zero. Smash has an unusually strong hold on the public perception of the Star Fox series.
Click to expand...

I'm actually surprised Zero has Fox's and Falco's reflectors on there belts.

I never really expected the reflector to actually become canon.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
DICKS AHOY said:
The blasters were referenced in Adventures and Assault if I'm remembering right, and they similarly didn't exist before Smash.
Click to expand...
The blaster was Fox's only move in 64 actually from Star Fox. There's a somewhat difficult to unlock multiplayer mode in 64 where you play as a character on the ground and use a blaster.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aX-pGlStTZw

It's also on Fox's official Star Fox 64 art
latest
 
D

DICKS AHOY

Banned
what the fuck

I seriously either forgot this existed or never unlocked it as a kid and subsequently never saw it brought up on the internet until now, and I played SF64 pretty religiously with my dad when I was a little kid. Like, I seriously feel like this is the first time I'm seeing a multiplayer mode where the SF crew could run around on foot.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
DICKS AHOY said:
what the fuck

I seriously either forgot this existed or never unlocked it as a kid and subsequently never saw it brought up on the internet until now, and I played SF64 pretty religiously with my dad when I was a little kid. Like, I seriously feel like this is the first time I'm seeing a multiplayer mode where the SF crew could run around on foot.
Click to expand...
It's pretty hard to unlock, so it's not unlikely that you just didn't unlock it. I believe you had to complete the hard route in Hard Mode?

And I think it's a pretty big stretch to call what they use in SF64 multiplayer to be "blasters" in the traditional sense, as they're shoulder mounted cannons. The blaster's only appearance in Star Fox games prior to Smash I believe was the official art.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah the blaster wasn't really from the multiplayer and iirc the shots looked more thick. As said before Fox's moves are really Arwing stuff turned into fighting moves.

Also Wolf really got lucky, I wonder if he still is. And wow, despite all things that supposedly made him clone, he still ends up being mostly unique.
 
P

powerdrain

Member
Wolf was so much fun, especially since I can't use Fox and Falco and he was easier to control. It was really satisfying slicing people up with his claws. I really want him back, but wish he had a unique final smash.

When Starfox Zero arrives it'd be the perfect time to bring him back.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Also it's kinda poignant.

Wolf was a last minute addition, complete with being based off from Fox's model. Yet somehow he managed to go beyond the simple "tweak this character's stats". They gave him a unique stance to bypass the Fox-lookalike. They gave him a plethora of unique moves. His specials despite following the Star Fox archetype are so heavily configured that if another character would have it people wouldn't easily say "clone". My wolfie was so lucky.

In a way, I guess they could have done that with Smash 4's clone characters, but I guess that would mean we'd only have one of them. I wonder who would be the "Wolf" in this case.

Still, we need to see Wolf in Sm4sh if we ever want to cast away our doubts at him returning.
 
D

DICKS AHOY

Banned
Either Dr. Mario since by default he'd have at least one special and A-move to himself, or Lucina since out of the three there was probably the most demand for her. If there was a choice between Toon Link and Wolf in Brawl's last few months of development for who got to be de-cloned, Wolf probably got lucky T.Link's drastic height/weight differences to regular Link already made him feel very different, whereas Wolf was still pretty similar in appearance and build to Fox/Falco. To a lesser extent from a lore-perspective it's not weird at all for T. Link to fight identically to a different reincarnation of himself, whereas it would've been for Wolf to fight so similarly to his arch-rival.

Back to Smash 4, if the three clones being scrapped wouldn't have been remotely enough time for another newcomer, I'd still probably have dug something like using that time to reanimate Ganondorf so even if they have the same hitboxes/stats/frames he's using as sword. It'd be worth losing the clones for something like that IMO since they'd still be physically in the game as costumes. Dr. Mario's ranked lower than regular-ass Mario (just scrap FLUDD already and it'd become even more a non-issue), Lucina is blatantly worse than Marth and Dark Pit is almost identical beyond instead of Pit's FS having a reskinned version of Zelda's for some odd reason. The idea that at least in Lucina's case a character would objectively play better in Smash 4 if they put in less effort is sort of depressing.

I mean, he plays differently, I know that since he's down as my most used character in both versions of Smash 4 so far, but I still think visually quite a bit could be done to make him feel like his own man and not Falcon's estranged father.
Also replace Warlock Punch with Dead Man's Volley and make Ganon a proper Giga Bowser-style Final Smash with the sword getting swapped out with a trident.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Between TL and Wolf, I think TL would have won out.

Toon Link didn't need a new 'gimmick' invented, because he takes 75% of his differences from Link from Young Link. He also has very few new animations compared to Wolf with 99% new animations and an entirely unique move set.

Also in Brawl, new comers were flowing like water for every major series. It won have been weird for Zelda to miss out, although Sakurai ended up cheating and calling a renamed vet with a new graphic style a new comer, despite his game play not really being new.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
Also in Brawl, new comers were flowing like water for every major series.
Click to expand...

Except Mario, whose series actually lost one character going into Brawl.
I mean yes there's Wario and to a lesser extent Diddy, but those two represent more their own franchises than Mario's.

I also consider Toon Link an "updated" version of Young Link, since the series took that split with its visuals.
 
S

Sir Ilpalazzo

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
Despite being from a different series, I think Wario was meant to be Brawl's new Mario character. In Melee he was going to be a Mario series character.
Click to expand...

Well, he was considered a Mario character on the poll, but that doesn't necessarily mean he would have had the Mario logo in-game; at the time I believe he had as many of his own games as Yoshi did at the time, if not more. But that's just splitting hairs; really I don't disagree.

Triforce141 said:
I can only imagine how different Wario in Smash might have been if he got in Melee over Dr. Mario.
Click to expand...

That was what the Project M developers were going for with their Wario, right?
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
Despite being from a different series, I think Wario was meant to be Brawl's new Mario character. In Melee he was going to be a Mario series character.
Click to expand...

The Wario added to Brawl was mainly based on WarioWare though, which has basically no direct ties with Mario's games. Aside from Wario's bike, Warioware isn't even acknowledged by Mario's spin offs (unlike Donkey Kong Country). The Wario added back during Melee would have been from WarioLand, which is the successor of the Mario Land series and even had Mario in the first game.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Wario is lumped with the Mario characters on the CSS for Smash 4. Him and Yoshi are the only two series out of chronological order.

Pretty much cements that he's in the same situation as Yoshi, where they're their own series, but are still under the Mario umbrella. I imagine Sakurai probably considers Wario to be a Mario character, as well.
 
I

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
Boss Doggie said:
Still, it was surprising Jiggs was part of the last three.
Click to expand...

Jiggs was at brink of being cut from Brawl. If Jiggs got cut, I wonder how people felt about it during smash 4. It's more likely we wouldn't hear the statement, Original 12 characters wouldn't get cut at all.

It's crazy how close she didn't make it.
 
F

Forkball

Member
Neoxon said:
She did get a bit of a relevance boost with her new Fairy typing.
Click to expand...

Which is amusing since Sakurai did nothing with it. Jiggly was actually more relevant in this game than Melee or Brawl. I thought for sure she'd get Moonblast or something as her Final Smash, but nope.

THE ORIGINAL TWELVE CAN NEVER BE CUT

NO EXCEPTIONS
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Wario Land is a Mario Land spinoff.
Wario Ware is a Mario Paint spinoff.

Both have roots in the Mario series.
 
T

Triforce141

Member
Boss Doggie said:
Nah he'd still remain some of Mario's cloned B moves at least if he was decloned in Brawl.
Click to expand...
As long as it feels different enough, I wouldn't have minded. Plus, he would've been decloned further in smash 4, so there's that.

I hope customs return in smash 5 and, for the most part, are completely different moves like with Palutena, Miis, and some of Mega Man's moves.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
Wasn't the idea that Wario was considered as a Mario clone for Melee debunked?

Triforce141 said:
Plus, he would've been decloned further in smash 4, so there's that.
Click to expand...
I don't know about that--for the most part, the "clone-ish" characters that returned from Brawl were mostly left alone. Toon Link, the most clone like character in Brawl, is one of the least changed veterans in the entire game, clone or otherwise.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Link got more changes than Toon Link did. Which ended up decloning Toon Link a bit more. Roy is the only clone that received any major changes. Falco, TL, Ganondorf, Lucas and Doc are pretty much exactly the same, only with a few minor animation tweaks. Lucas ended up being more cloned because of his Final Smash as well.

Also yes, that rumor about Wario being considered instead of Doc isn't true.

I believe the reason Wario isn't in Melee was because he thought two characters for Mario was enough and any more would overdue it. This was before Doc and the other clones. I remember seeing that somewhere reliable.

The next game he would add four not clone Pokemon though lol. And he had a fifth planned! So two non clone new comers isn't really consistent.
 
T

Tyeforce

Member
This is sort of an odd question, but I'm not sure where else to ask it—does anyone happen to know if there has been a set of official screenshots released alongside the latest stage and Mii Fighter outfit DLC, besides the very few that were posted to Twitter? With the other two sets of DLC, there were batches of screenshots released from a press kit showing off the new content. I've yet to see any of these for the latest DLC, though, and searching has turned up nothing. I'm looking for these, if they exist, because it's how I recreate the Mii Fighter outfit Miis used in the official renders, since the screenshots show them off in various poses with different facial expressions. (And yes, I'm aware that Nintendo has released QR Codes for some of these Miis on the official website, but not all of them, so I'm still trying to make the others.) However, there are a few from the latest batch that I need to see some more details for, and I was hoping the official screenshots would allow me to sort that out, but it's been weeks and there's still nothing. So yeah, I guess I'm just throwing this out there in case anyone happens to know if these may actually exist or not. Maybe there actually was a press kit released but no one bothered to post the images because there weren't any new characters this time around?
 
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