Snake Pass, and how a bad home menu icon drags down my enjoyment of a game
- Thread starter Neiteio
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FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
The Snake Pass and Sonic Mania logos are great.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
:lol me too and not one single film comes to mind!
Robin64
Member
We're having a civil discussion about design. Nothing more, nothing less. Nobody is refusing to play any games because of it.
//ARCANUM
Member
agreed. i have and play both Snake Pass and Sonic Mania, and I don't like the icons for both.
afternoon delight
Member
At least you entertain the notion that this is extremely petty and uh, arcade cabinet size versus pixel size seems a bit uh not proportionate at all.
And to answer your question no, an icon has never once lessened my enjoyment of a game.
Did you obsess over save icons on memory cards too?
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Since it seems to need repeating:
There's probably a lot of design considerations that you'd be surprised are conscious thoughts and decisions. Changing the colour of a registration button from blue to green can result in a 60% increase in sign-ups, the image you show next to a checkout process can massively sway people abandoning the basket. Minor things have incredible influence on something, even if it's not felt by the average user.
This is more about accessibility and being fit-for-purpose in the context of a library, but these minor things are important in most areas of design, and people shouldn't be mocked for discussing them.
chronic_archaic
Member
I mean I never liked when a 360 games dashboard icon when you inserted the disc was ugly, or in my games where the 64x64 image was bad, or in my Xbox One library... but I never got so upset it made me not want to play the game...
Same thing the Wii. Some games/WiiWare had really bad splash screens but... it's a fucking icon.
Same thing the Wii. Some games/WiiWare had really bad splash screens but... it's a fucking icon.
No. I don't have to look at save icons every time I boot up my system, or turn it off, or go to the home menu to check screens, or check my friends list, or change my controller, or check my battery, or tweak my settings, etc. But with this icon, I do see it, each time I go to the home menu to do all of the above.
It'd be one thing if the icon was this way from the start, but if you read the OP and this thread you'll see they actually changed it from something that was visually appealing and consistent to what we have now. The point is this change is unnecessary and for the worse.
Presentation is important, especially for something I see multiple times when I play this game or other games, given how much I visit the home menu for aforementioned reasons.
If you don't care about presentation or aesthetics or consistency, there's probably nothing here for you to discuss.
stan423321
Member
The thing about save icons on memory cards is that you don't see them unless you are managing save data on memory cards, in my experience.
Somewhat similarly, cartridge icon on a vanilla Nintendo DS is an absolute non-issue, you can even configure the device to straight boot the game unless directed to do otherwise, and there isn't really much of a choice involved in showing it. The situation starts to get different on systems handling multiple installable games independent on insertable medium, like personal computers and the small downloadable titles for these. Eventually consoles got on this trend, and a few devices like aforementioned DS got... unauthorized game installation facilities which set them on even ground.
At this point, game icon is basically the cover. You can say to not judge a book by its cover, but you can say at the same time that cover is terrible and you are ashamed of keeping a thing with a terrible cover in constant view.
At some point someone has decided it would be fun to put the list of bootable titles in the system menu (as in, one usable without quitting the game; note Wii and Wii U don't do this), which I don't find a particularly interesting feature on a machine that is supposed to handle a single primary title at a time, but it caught on. PS3 does it except when it has tech problems. 3DS, Vita and Switch do it, from what I remember since launch, except for 3DS BC mode. I think PS4 and XB1 do the same. Now, things depend on particular system menu design and particular usage scenario. Switch has went into the previously rare direction of icons being huge, which accordingly makes ugly icons huge blight on eyes of those sensitive to that sort of thing. Use system menu a lot, and you will see it a lot. People clearly care about look of their menus, or paid themes wouldn't be a thing.
tl;dr: this is not an equivalent of the savvefile icon being ugly. this is an equivalent of game burning in its title on a CRT TV, or carving it into the console, and then daring to be ugly.
You realise that you literally have to do this to launch the game, right? Like, there is literally no additional "effort" required.
Although I own neither Sonic Mania nor Snake Pass on Switch, the icon disparity bothers me as well.
I mostly agree with the dissent: while they would have worked as touch screen icons, the default Switch layout makes the characters appear too large, and the style clashes with established logos such as BotW's and Mario Kart 8's. The two competing styles are an eyesore on the home screen.
I mostly agree with the dissent: while they would have worked as touch screen icons, the default Switch layout makes the characters appear too large, and the style clashes with established logos such as BotW's and Mario Kart 8's. The two competing styles are an eyesore on the home screen.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
This is why I really dont like graphic design anymore although I kinda do. It might seem petty but its legit concerns about the designs of stuff. Take a graphic design class or something you'll see.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Which requires finding the game, which is where design accessibility comes into it, which is what the discussion we've been having is about. Just because you don't appreciate or understand nuances of UI or interactive design doesn't mean the principles suddenly vanish.
Why are you so concerned that people are having a discussion about this?
chronic_archaic
Member
Why do third party developers have to cater to what people think is good UI design?The ๖ۜBronx;246289916 said:
Robin64
Member
They clearly don't have to, because obviously some haven't.
We're simply saying it would be nice if they did. We would prefer it.
gingerbeardman
Member
I don't subscribe to the idea that it has to have the name of the game on the icon. But this new icon doesn't make me want to load the game at all as I'm browsing for something to play. I haven't launched it since the big update.
I'm sure they can see this by checking their analytics data.
I'm sure they can see this by checking their analytics data.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
"Why should designers follow good design methodologies" - because it's good design. I'm not sure if you think design is just another name for art but it's not, design has a purpose and is critically evaluated. Just because something is good, doesn't mean it can't be better.
We're specifically talking about an area where everyone's designs are shown together in a space. It should be important to maintain some level of consistency to avoid it looking like a mess. Accessibility is a big factor of that, you probably never considered to test a website for colour blindness but you do because although 6/7 people will be alright, it's better to design so that everyone can use it with as much ease as possible. Small things can matter significantly in design even if it's not something that you personally notice, be it changing the colour of a button or the font used for dialogue.
"Why should anyone do something for the benefit of others" is effectively what you're suggesting when you're saying people shouldn't adhere to accessibility guidelines.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
I think you're the only person in this thread that's mentioned that.
I mean, developers don't have to care what their fans want. If they did, they would've reverted back to the original icon after seeing the complaints here and on social media: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=242655138&postcount=253
I imagine there was a focus group test that suggested they should take the smartphone app approach. Nintendo's own design doc to third parties recommends the opposite: http://imgur.com/hI6fKRL
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Gotta love design by committee!
I still don't understand why people are literally offended by the discussion going on in this thread.
Also RE: Save Icons
When I was younger (when save icons were often a unique graphic) I did often look at the icon to a new game. A nice icon, to me, showed the developer put care into all aspects of their game. The PS2 had some especially nice icons - especially when you'd hover over delete and see which ones had a special animation just for that.
Also RE: Save Icons
When I was younger (when save icons were often a unique graphic) I did often look at the icon to a new game. A nice icon, to me, showed the developer put care into all aspects of their game. The PS2 had some especially nice icons - especially when you'd hover over delete and see which ones had a special animation just for that.
The ๖ۜBronx;246291102 said:
No, reading back through the thread there were definitely a few people.
I mean, little details like that can be a nice touch, but the big picture is still that it's an incredibly minor detail, like one of thousands in a game.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Point them out? All I read were a few that said it dampened their enjoyment, and it was certainly not a prevailing opinion in the thread. OP even said how great a game Snake Pass was.
The internet lacks tone of voice, body language, etc. Some people tend to assume that every criticism, however light, is being made in bad faith, even when the emotions are honest and things are presented in a polite and well-reasoned manner.
It's unfortunate, but hey! If people want to be offended by the topic, let 'em post and keep this thread bumped and visible. That way, people who are actually interested in the discussion can discover this thread and join in.
With any luck, maybe more devs will put thought into this design element.
Wow. Can you cite any? Not to question you but that is genuinely crazy.
soldierblue
Member
I thought... I was the only one.
pinkurocket
Member
I said this on the last page, but when I put Steam on grid view which shows every game as only an icon, every single icon has the game logo on it. Well, it's more a banner since it's a horizontal image, but it's a similar design idea as the Switch homepage. There's no text to accompany the icons, just clean images. It's bad design that you have to select an image in order to see the game title. Unless they add text under the icons like your phone's app drawer, it should be made mandatory to have the logos on the icons. I honestly can't believe they didn't make this a rule (as it stands it's only a 'suggestion' looking a the leaked documents that were posted here earlier).
I mean, looking at the Switch UI, the icons for news/settings/eshop etc also don't have text, but here you have icons that are easy to read and won't change. Imagine if Snake Pass got a sequel with an icon without text and you own both games. Will the sequel have the snake in a different pose? Will it have a mustache? Right now it's not an issue, but in the long run it might become something that'll frustrate people. Not to mention the idea that it's already hurting the games, because bad icon design makes it more unpleasant to boot/purchase these games. It's a valid point to complain about.
I mean, looking at the Switch UI, the icons for news/settings/eshop etc also don't have text, but here you have icons that are easy to read and won't change. Imagine if Snake Pass got a sequel with an icon without text and you own both games. Will the sequel have the snake in a different pose? Will it have a mustache? Right now it's not an issue, but in the long run it might become something that'll frustrate people. Not to mention the idea that it's already hurting the games, because bad icon design makes it more unpleasant to boot/purchase these games. It's a valid point to complain about.
Welcome to the resistance, comrade!
Also welcome to GAF's most "iconic" thread.
Get it?
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Anyone who hacked their Wii will remember USB Loader GX (or whatever it was).
One of the coolest feature (among so damn many) was that the games were presented as boxes with the original box art. It made it feel like your digital collection was kinda physical, in it's way. But even better was that you could choose from a bunch of boxarts or even upload your own.
Now, we won't be getting the full box display thing (though I wish we could). But what would be an awesome feature would be to allow us to upload our own icons, or supply perhaps a list of three icons that fit one of three templates (for example the official style favourited by zelda and mario kart, the 'mobile icon' style for companies who want to go there, and then another style, maybe minimal). That would be an awesome solution.
One of the coolest feature (among so damn many) was that the games were presented as boxes with the original box art. It made it feel like your digital collection was kinda physical, in it's way. But even better was that you could choose from a bunch of boxarts or even upload your own.
Now, we won't be getting the full box display thing (though I wish we could). But what would be an awesome feature would be to allow us to upload our own icons, or supply perhaps a list of three icons that fit one of three templates (for example the official style favourited by zelda and mario kart, the 'mobile icon' style for companies who want to go there, and then another style, maybe minimal). That would be an awesome solution.
Pokemaniac
Member
The thing that makes the phone style icons truly bad on the Switch is that these are icons designed for a context where the name of the app is always displayed next to the icon. The Switch completely eschews that in favor of just making the icons big enough to include a proper logo. Without the context of the title always being next to them, the icons fail to communicate the identity of the game anywhere near as effectively.
Agghh, my eyes! I'm going to buy it on Switch, but seeing that icon is gonna suck.
So what do we think of the Sonic Mania icon?
Marco Tovarich
Member
How is that icon bad? It is immediately recognisable.
Waluigilicious
Member
To us yes. Show it to your average person and they will be able to name every game except the second one, which in this case they will either just say Sonic or nothing.
Of course it's recognisable to people on NeoGAF who keep up with gaming news. To someone who doesn't know Sonic or knows him but only tangentially there's no way to tell it's Sonic Mania.
There's a very simple fix for that issue... beats me as to what it is, though.
Update the game. They changed the icon.
Waluigilicious
Member
Oh nice! Anyone have before and/or after pics?
forknknife
Banned
Waaaaaaaay better
Charles Brandon
Member
I've got games installed on my PS4 that I don't know what they are even with the fucking logos
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Exactly. How this simple fact escapes some artists/marketers is beyond me.
I'll try tomorrow. I don't know why but, except NeoGAF and Google, internet is failing me.
Probably some DNS problem.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
I haven't got the game but did a bit of searching and found the following, which I assume is right?
Waluigilicious
Member
The ๖ۜBronx;246299830 said:
If that's the case they definitely made the right decision.
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