Indeed. But it has Mr. T firing a Snickers gatling gun. It's hard to get any more awesome than that.The_Inquisitor said:What's ironic is that this commercial is getting plenty of free exposure...
Mumei said::lol
I guess I'll explain to all of the, "But they never said he's gay!"
Homophobia that is not rooted in religious beliefs ("God says it is wrong.") are mostly rooted in beliefs about masculinity and femininity. That is why effeminate gay men report the greatest number of homophobia related issues, why effeminate gay teens have higher reported rates of attempted suicide, and so forth. The advertisement plays into that; by saying, "Get some nuts!" it implies that you are not male if you are not masculine.
The gay groups dislike the ad because of that, not because they think that character in the advertisement was gay or think that male effeminacy is the exclusive purview of homosexuals.
Napoleonthechimp said:Politically correct shit irritates the crap out of me, I wish people would grow a backbone. People don't like difference? Welcome to the world.
Ugh...this hurts so fucking much to read.kame-sennin said:People should read this post before they start spouting off about the commercial not targeting gays specifically. I'm not gay myself, but I don't like the way corporations dictate the terms of masculinity to society at large. Having such ignorant, rigid definitions of masculinity propagated constantly through the media (snickers ads, hamburger ads, beer ads, sports ads, ect.) is not beneficial to homo-sexuals, women, or straight men. People can pretend that media has no effect on culture, but the knee-jerk, hyper-masculine responses in this thread suggest otherwise.
Well, if it irritates you, than I guess gay people should just "man-up" and tolerate harassment.
kame-sennin said:People should read this post before they start spouting off about the commercial not targeting gays specifically. I'm not gay myself, but I don't like the way corporations dictate the terms of masculinity to society at large. Having such ignorant, rigid definitions of masculinity propagated constantly through the media (snickers ads, hamburger ads, beer ads, sports ads, ect.) is not beneficial to homo-sexuals, women, or straight men. People can pretend that media has no effect on culture, but the knee-jerk, hyper-masculine responses in this thread suggest otherwise.
Does it feel good to pretend you're clever?Love To Love You Baby said:Agreed.
I also love the irony of the oversensitive reaction people have to what they label as oversensitivity. It's almost as if "political correctness" - get this - offends them!
RevenantKioku said:No.
What you're doing here is drawing too much out of something. As the problem we have today, we are being too accommodating of those who draw from their personal experiences and turn something innocent into something evil. Then you are only making it worse.
Bigotry's end isn't about only stopping hateful actions but also not thinking everything is somehow targeting you.
Look, part of the manning up is realizing that not everything is targeting you to offend you, and some things really are not a big deal.
RevenantKioku said:Does it feel good to pretend you're clever?
But there is no hypocrisy. You are trying to be clever by making shit up. Not being a fan of overly politically correct stuff does not make one "offended" by it nor do I really see any "oversensitivity to oversensitive" going on here. You were trying to be funny by playing off words, but there is no logic to you bullshit. Of course, this can only go into a "You see it this way I see it this way." argument which I really don't have time for right now.Love To Love You Baby said:Please post a legitimate response to the hypocrisy of people whining about 'political correctness' and we'll get somewhere. Otherwise all you're telling me is that you don't have a response to it, and have resorted to playground insults.
This takes into account that you actually worry about these sorts of things to begin with, which I cannot sympathize with. As to say, if a Snickers commercial has you feeling insecure, the problem has deeper roots.Mumei said:There is nothing innocent about the commercial's underlying implications that effeminate men are not "real" men. The commercial takes an issue of something very ugly and makes it humorous. It was an attempt to appeal to the sophomoric side of your average American male, and as this topic has shown, it has done that splendidly.
Then let it be, is what I am saying. There is no actual harm here, and there is no reason for it to be pulled.That said, I don't think it was targeting me, or gay people generally. I don't believe that the people in this topic who found it amusing are anti-gay, and I don't believe that the people at Mars had any ill-intentions in choosing to air this advertisement.
As a straight man who has been called gay and been beaten up in various stages of my life for not being "manly", no it does not offend me in the slightest. I'd argue it's not obvious because I'm not looking to be offended.And I'll admit:
This really isn't a big deal. That said, people were incredulous as to why anyone would possibly find such an amusing commercial offensive - and it is pretty damn obvious. Some people actually are that man, and have suffered the consequences of it, and they'd be offended by a commercial which shows it in a comical light. To put it perfectly bluntly: Anyone who has been assaulted because someone believed that they were acting like a faggot is probably offended by it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172347Mumei said:RevenantKioku, I'm almost afraid to ask, but.... How did you receive your tag?
RevenantKioku said:http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172347
I don't see why you'd be afraid? Unless you're still reading it as penis?
RevenantKioku said:As a straight man who has been called gay and been beaten up in various stages of my life for not being "manly", no it does not offend me in the slightest. I'd argue it's not obvious because I'm not looking to be offended.
RevenantKioku said:But there is no hypocrisy. You are trying to be clever by making shit up. Not being a fan of overly politically correct stuff does not make one "offended" by it nor do I really see any "oversensitivity to oversensitive" going on here. You were trying to be funny by playing off words, but there is no logic to you bullshit. Of course, this can only go into a "You see it this way I see it this way." argument which I really don't have time for right now.
This is such a loop that my head hurts. I understand what you're saying, but I don't see it.Love To Love You Baby said:My point is that it's ironic that people whine that other people are whining, and you're only reinforcing it by getting all pissy about it, lol.
RevenantKioku said:At least people would have laughed.
I guess my point is, I just can't take it seriously. I mean, if you have to stand and point out "NUH UH, REAL MEN DON'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THAT!" all I can see you is as insecure with yourself instead of really worried about some cause or something.
kame-sennin said:People should read this post before they start spouting off about the commercial not targeting gays specifically. I'm not gay myself, but I don't like the way corporations dictate the terms of masculinity to society at large. Having such ignorant, rigid definitions of masculinity propagated constantly through the media (snickers ads, hamburger ads, beer ads, sports ads, ect.) is not beneficial to homo-sexuals, women, or straight men. People can pretend that media has no effect on culture, but the knee-jerk, hyper-masculine responses in this thread suggest otherwise.
Well, if it irritates you, than I guess gay people should just "man-up" and tolerate harassment.
The_Inquisitor said:What's ironic is that this commercial is getting plenty of free exposure...
Sir Fragula said:I saw no gay in this advert. A friend of mine who's gay saw no gay in it. There is no gay in this advert.
Mumei said:Effeminacy has been a stereotype of homosexuals since the term was first conceived in the medical community. Effeminacy is more common in adult homosexual males than in adult heterosexual males. In our society, especially among most high school-aged and college-aged males, effeminacy is treated as being equivalent to homosexuality. That is why gay groups worked in dispelling the notion that a person is necessarily gay simply because they appear to be so. They've done a good job of this; most of you have noted that there's nothing indicating that he is a homosexual (showing that you know that the stereotype is not necessarily true), ergo this commercial cannot have any undertones of violence towards homosexuals being humorous.
That line of reasoning is patently ridiculous. Whether you believe the commercial is funny or not does not affect this - I laughed at the commercial just for the fact that Mr. T burst out of a portal with a Snicker's Gatling gun. In our society, positive images of gay men are almost exclusively, save a few glaring exceptions, those of the so-called "straight-acting" type. They are very masculine. If the portrayal happens to be effeminate, they are the joke character, and are there for laughs. Gay men, both in fiction and in reality, are treated as more or less acceptable based upon their masculinity.
This commercial is simply an extension of that notion - male effeminacy is bad. There is no need to state that he is or is not a homosexual; the use of stereotypes which have been in existence for over a century.
cyclonekruse said:Lambasting people for promoting masculinity in males probably isn't going to solve anything, though. I have a hunch that it was evolutionarily advantageous to promote masculine ideals, especially within families. Being stronger, tougher, faster, etc. makes it more likely that one will bring home food from the hunt. A behavior that promotes those things would then be selected for. If my (completely unverified) hypothesis is true, we might be genetically predisposed as a species to promote masculinity. And if that is also true, any attempts to get them to stop idealizing masculinity will be about as successful as telling a person to be straight who is genetically predisposed toward homosexuality.
kame-sennin said:I don't like the way corporations dictate the terms of masculinity to society at large. Having such ignorant, rigid definitions of masculinity propagated constantly through the media (snickers ads, hamburger ads, beer ads, sports ads, ect.) is not beneficial to homo-sexuals, women, or straight men. People can pretend that media has no effect on culture, but the knee-jerk, hyper-masculine responses in this thread suggest otherwise.
I assure you there is no genetics when it comes to homosexuality. Society itself breeds homosexuality while genetics may make one more or less susceptible to partaking in homosexuality. Genetics, IMO, is not the trigger though. It is society.cyclonekruse said:Lambasting people for promoting masculinity in males probably isn't going to solve anything, though. I have a hunch that it was evolutionarily advantageous to promote masculine ideals, especially within families. Being stronger, tougher, faster, etc. makes it more likely that one will bring home food from the hunt. A behavior that promotes those things would then be selected for. If my (completely unverified) hypothesis is true, we might be genetically predisposed as a species to promote masculinity. And if that is also true, any attempts to get them to stop idealizing masculinity will be about as successful as telling a person to be straight who is genetically predisposed toward homosexuality.
Love To Love You Baby said:People use biological explanations to explain (or 'justify' might be the better term here) human beliefs and ideals all the time.
Love To Love You Baby said:I could cook up a hypothesis for idealized masculinity as being culturally created just as easily.
cyclonekruse said:I am trying to explain (not justify) human behavior with a biological explanation, yes. And it's also true that many people us biological explanations to explain human behavior. Why does that make it any less valid as you seem to be suggesting?
cyclonekruse said:I'm sure you could. I would probably still think my explanation makes more sense on the face of it though. I think it's pretty undeniable that many (almost all) of the traits that are considered masculine would either help procure and protect resources (when we were still hunter-gatherers) or be attractive to women. Those are the two things that help pass on genes, which is what life is all about, evolutionarily speaking.
jakonovski said:Oh yeah! Eat those Snickers bars and you'll walk like a REAL MAN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqy7rSPIipM
cyclonekruse said:Lambasting people for promoting masculinity in males probably isn't going to solve anything, though. I have a hunch that it was evolutionarily advantageous to promote masculine ideals, especially within families. Being stronger, tougher, faster, etc. makes it more likely that one will bring home food from the hunt. A behavior that promotes those things would then be selected for. If my (completely unverified) hypothesis is true, we might be genetically predisposed as a species to promote masculinity. And if that is also true, any attempts to get them to stop idealizing masculinity will be about as successful as telling a person to be straight who is genetically predisposed toward homosexuality.
"And when historians trace how her inevitability dissolved, they will surely note this paradox: The first serious female candidate for president was rejected by voters drawn to the more feminine management style of her male rival."
"Well, everybody knows that a book club is no place for a man. So why has Barack Obama suddenly turned into Oprah? Willie Geist rounds up the girls, brings the chardonnay, and heads to the Oprah book club -- or the Obama book club -- when we come back."
"I mean, when he gets up there, he says we're waging a war against cynicism. That is too abstract. It has nothing to do with the concerns of ordinary people, and it is also, frankly, kind of wimpy."
"He seems like kind of a wuss, though."
"What a sensitive little man!"
"[video clip of Obama bowling]
SCARBOROUGH: Oh, that's so dainty. Ugh.[...]
SCARBOROUGH: A very human side? A prissy side."
Mumei said:This commercial is simply an extension of that notion - male effeminacy is bad. There is no need to state that he is or is not a homosexual; the use of stereotypes which have been in existence for over a century.
aechris said:That's what makes the commercial for me. It's funny because of the hyper-masculinity it's pushing. Of course it's ridiculous. Every time I see a beer/burger commercial about guys being MEN by eating MEAT it gives me a kick because they are being (and I hate to use the term, but) self-aware. I agree that they are also going for the demo group that actually buys into this shit, but for the most part I think people enjoy it because it's over-the-top manly.
That's just about everything, apparently. Just try and offend me.Mumei said:Is something that is "politically incorrect" well-defined as, "anything that does not offend me, yet still offends humorless minorities?"