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[Lil' Dice]

Denial about what. You play games and thats it. I actually look into how its made. I'm not in the business but I know the difference between realtime and prerendered. To me, you just a forum poster crying foul in a drunken stooper.

:lol
OMG you're golden. Do you also dig in Sony's dumpsters looking for cool posters and scrap artwork at night? :lol

Cute kid.....

 

[DCharlie]

"Remember how Kojima said he could do MGS4 on 360? Maybe he was trying to tell us something?"

i noticed that this was rubbished with people pulling up quotes from him comparing the PS2 to Xbox. But if Kojima thinks MGS4 can be done on the 360 - then what is to doubt? He can't be a platform specific genius can he?

If the creator of a game tells you that they could do the same thing on another platform, i don't see what there is to doubt! But... it was... (!!!)

"Do you also dig in Sony's dumpsters looking for cool posters"

most cool posters live in condos not in dumpsters - we got us some cheddar , some threads and a proper hizzy.

(i get what you are saying, that the scripted events have no AI, physics, collission overheads, and i think the backlash you are experiencing is because of your interpretation of real time. Some stuff was realtime, i think you need to use the phrase "in game realtime")

 

[puebla]

just to refresh everybody's memory, here's what he said when i'm assuming somebody asked him if he was breaking the NDA:

I'm very aware of the NDA and I have not broken it or mentioned anything that is not public knowledge already. I have not leaked any technology, i have not shown the box, i have not shown any art or even mentioned the title. I did give some opinions however. that does not break NDA.

 

[BlueTsunami]

:lol
OMG you're golden. Do you also dig in Sony's dumpsters looking for cool posters and scrap artwork at night? :lol

Cute kid.....

lawl

Your golden to. Don't know where you got that from any of my posts but keep smokin them blunts, your the first person where I can say its really affecting their intellect

 

[Miroku]

Denial about what. You play games and thats it. I actually look into how its made. I'm not in the business but I know the difference between realtime and prerendered. To me, you just a forum poster crying foul in a drunken stooper.

But do you know the difference between pre-rendered, realtime and pre-rendered realtime? :lol

 

[Ponn]

Trust me; I realize how unwise his actions were. I work for a large production studio, and am under constant vigil to make sure I don't disclose company secrets. What I find amusing is people who are merely video game enthusiasts discrediting this man simply because he chose not to champion their system of choice.

Well, I don't know about discrediting. Before the people started coming in this thread shouting fanboy shit I saw mostly just posts that he was a dumbass for doing it, period.

I'm not sure I would overall take everything he said as holy gospel either though. For someobody to seemingly have a long term job with a company with a resume like his and to just shit all over it for no apparent reason seems to have some issues. And to endanger him ever getting a job in the industry again to boot. Would you deny that there's something a little off about that? I don't think we will ever know why exactly he chose to put that stuff up, but i'm not going to call him a liar or say everything he said was the truth either. I'll prefer just to wait and see and in the meantime continue to call him a dumbass.

 

[BlueTsunami]

But do you know the difference between pre-rendered, realtime and pre-rendered realtime? :lol

@_@

Words contradict eachother

 

[SolidSnakex]

i noticed that this was rubbished with people pulling up quotes from him comparing the PS2 to Xbox. But if Kojima thinks MGS4 can be done on the 360 - then what is to doubt? He can't be a platform specific genius can he?

If the creator of a game tells you that they could do the same thing on another platform, i don't see what there is to doubt! But... it was... (!!!)

Hey maybe it it possible. But Kojima's also against porting (and has been making tihs very obvious as of late) so its not like we'll find out.

 

[Incognito]

SonyGAFFER defense method #2: Projection.

 

[DCharlie]

"Hey maybe it it possible. But Kojima's also against porting (and has been making tihs very obvious as of late) so its not like we'll find out."

yup, i think if we saw an MGS game on X360, it would be something that perhaps used assets, but built from the ground up.

I think that's what he's alluding to - we could do the same thing on the X360, but we'd have to do it a bit differently etc etc...

 

[Unison]

"Wishing and hoping and thinking and praying, planning and dreaming..."

You're trolling me as if I have a vested interest in the PS3 being a disappointing piece of hardware. I think the 360 is an underwhelming piece of hardware.. The dashboard and live implementation are its best assets, for crying out loud. If PS3 is roughly on par with it, that would be devastating.

 

[Lil' Dice]

lawl

Your golden to. Don't know where you got that from any of my posts but keep smokin them blunts, your the first person where I can say its really affecting their intellect

There's no excuse for al least not conducting a spell/grammar check before challenging someone's intellect :lol Not that I’m a spelling Nazi, but it just comes off as awkward.
It's like a retard calling someone with full mental faculties "retarded".....
Keep blaming the marijuana if it's your only form of defense though.....

 

[Raistlin]

Sony Online Entertainment (Untold Legends, Everquest, Planetside, etc).

Don't forget Star Wars Galaxies

 

[TheDuce22]

I don't think we will ever know why exactly he chose to put that stuff up, but i'm not going to call him a liar or say everything he said was the truth either.

I doubt he realized how serious people take this shit. He should have known better but its not the first time someone talked about whats going on at their job on their blog.

 

[Vibri]

Lil Dice - you said: "nothing on the PS3 is realtime".

Do you know the technical difference between 'realtime' and 'pre-rendered' graphics?

PRE-rendered implies graphics that were rendered in advanced, recorded, and played back - i.e. CG in a Pixar movie. These graphcs cannot be altered in 'realtime'.

The MGS4 demo could, and was, extensively. Kojima zoomed in and out of models, played sections from different angles, changed light sources etc. It's been released publicly on video.

Not to mention the other confirmed realtime PS3 demos that have been shown (Lair, I-8, Unreal 3 tech demoed/stopped/rotated/zoomed by Tim Sweeney etc etc).

You're digging yourself a deep hole here pal.

 

[xaosslug]

SonyGAFFER defense method #2: Projection.

Incognito
Sanctioned Troll
(Today, 08:27 PM)
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hmm....

 

[Ponn]

just to refresh everybody's memory, here's what he said when i'm assuming somebody asked him if he was breaking the NDA:

I'm very aware of the NDA and I have not broken it or mentioned anything that is not public knowledge already. I have not leaked any technology, i have not shown the box, i have not shown any art or even mentioned the title. I did give some opinions however. that does not break NDA.

That's not for him to say, and I think it's obvious he said something wrong. Breaking NDA is just one of the things he could have been fired for. The biggie really would be misrepresenting his company in public and slander. By saying something like "Xbox 360 is more powerful then PS3" while under the pretense that you work for Sony in one way or another is still making a technical statement. Disclosing how many dev kits are out there should also fall under that if you are not given permission by your company to reveal any details on the system before it launches.

 

[BlueTsunami]

There's no excuse for al least not conducting a spell/grammar check before challenging someone's intellect :lol Not that I’m a spelling Nazi, but it just comes off as awkward.
It's like a retard calling someone with full mental faculties "retarded".....
Keep blaming the marijuana if it's your only form of defense though.....

It is if you can't tell the difference (on a technical level) between prerendered and realtime and openly state that nothing is realtime

 

[krypt0nian]

Incognito
Sanctioned Troll
(Today, 08:27 PM)
Reply | Quote

hmm....

dude, dude....you are trying too hard. Calm down.

 

[Red Blaster]

I don't know what the fuck is going on.

 

[xaosslug]

You're trolling me as if I have a vested interest in the PS3 being a disappointing piece of hardware. I think the 360 is an underwhelming piece of hardware.. The dashboard and live implementation are its best assets, for crying out loud. If PS3 is roughly on par with it, that would be devastating.

i don't know... you're coming off a wee bit... giddy? maybe, it's me. ::shug::

 

[Lil' Dice]

Lil Dice - you said: "nothing on the PS3 is realtime".

Do you know the technical difference between 'realtime' and 'pre-rendered' graphics?

PRE-rendered implies graphics that were rendered in advanced, recorded, and played back - i.e. CG in a Pixar movie. These graphcs cannot be altered in 'realtime'.

The MGS4 demo could, and was, extensively. Kojima zoomed in and out of models, played sections from different angles, changed light sources etc. It's been released publicly on video.

Not to mention the other confirmed realtime PS3 demos that have been shown (Lair, I-8, Unreal 3 tech demoed/stopped/rotated/zoomed by Tim Sweeney etc etc).

You're digging yourself a deep hole here pal.

Do you understand the complexity of making a game run stable with multiple assets, AI implementation, full lighting, particle effects, shaders, rendering, etc, etc, on an incomplete and unstable dev-kit? The shit you pointed out is elementary stuff kid, when you get to high school then we'll talk ok?

 

[Raistlin]

Chuck Norris has tattooed Josh Robinson's face on his chest. Chuck Norris doesn't take names, he takes fuckin' FACES. And kicks ass.

Wow ... that is genius!!! :lol :lol :lol

 

[Lil' Dice]

It is if you can't tell the difference (on a technical level) between prerendered and realtime and openly state that nothing is realtime

Now you're just getting into unecessary semantics for the sake of argument. I never mentioned anything about pre-rendered.

 

[Raistlin]

I guess the way that I see it, if he was really trying to fuck over Sony, he could have said a lot more than he did, and he could have been a lot more damning.

If this really was him trying to fuck over Sony, he would purposfully show some restraint. Otherwise he'd risk being too obvious.

 

[Unison]

i don't know... you're coming off a wee bit... giddy? maybe, it's me. ::shug::

Yeah, it's just you. I went back and re-read my posts in this thread, and I don't see where I sound giddy. If anything, I'm trying to do sensible stuff like collaborate his comments with the scattered comments from other devs and reminding folks he's just talking about dev. kits, and not final units in his first post.

 

[krypt0nian]

I demand that mrbob post so I can see which way the wind blows this evening!

 

[monkeymagic]

I think we should keep this thread open and sticky it.

If nothing it helps to contain the RA trolls to one PS3 thread

 

[DonasaurusRex]

let me try:

360 will look better early on
PS3 will look better down the road

last line (at least) was pretty much just paraphrasing

...no, he's saying that since the 360 has such great tools and dev environment it will be easier to improve upon previous work and push the system. You cant really say what it will be like down the road because ease of development and compiler efficiency are huge in overall performance. If the tools just get better and better and compiler optimization just gets better you cant say for sure that the PS3 is going to look better over time. That is of course if the PS3 and 360 are as close in power as carmack is eluding to.

 

[kaching]

What I find amusing is people who are merely video game enthusiasts discrediting this man simply because he chose not to champion their system of choice.

If he did in fact break NDA, strikes me as petty that he would consent to an NDA and then break it simpy to at best vent or, at worst deliberately smear your former employer. It's not like he broke an NDA to expose a great injustice or some crime against humanity. He broke NDA to do nothing more than dish dirt that we'll know the truth of one way or the other in a few months regardless. He's equal parts dumb and untrustworthy - that not enough an indictment of his credibility?

 

[BlueTsunami]

Now you're just getting into unecessary semantics for the sake of argument. I never mentioned anything about pre-rendered.

What else is there besides realtime and prerendered?

Your the one thats confusing terminology. What your asking for is a full blown game (which you'll be recieving possibly next month) with AI, Assets etc. This has been a common issue with the PS3 so far. Hopefully next month we'll be seeing full game vides.

With that said, theres the MGS4 Demo, Fatal Inertia, Gundam Demo etc that ARE Realtime. They DO have physics running in the background and were being controlled. The MGS4 Demo was using an actual MODEL being rendered in REALTIME, Snakes hair had a dedicated Physics process being devoted to it, theres was REALTIME lighting going on with Snakes model.

So how was that NOT realtime?

 

[Goreomedy]

Well, I don't know about discrediting. Before the people started coming in this thread shouting fanboy shit I saw mostly just posts that he was a dumbass for doing it, period.

I'm not sure I would overall take everything he said as holy gospel either though. For someobody to seemingly have a long term job with a company with a resume like his and to just shit all over it for no apparent reason seems to have some issues. And to endanger him ever getting a job in the industry again to boot. Would you deny that there's something a little off about that? I don't think we will ever know why exactly he chose to put that stuff up, but i'm not going to call him a liar or say everything he said was the truth either. I'll prefer just to wait and see and in the meantime continue to call him a dumbass.

An objective take on things? No wonder Lil' Dice completely ignored you.

Josh Robinson committed career suicide. That alone is enough to raise suspicion. We should all consider his motivation.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I demand that mrbob post so I can see which way the wind blows this evening!

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Sysgen]

His lol see you next year PS3 comment leads me to beleive he was a MS plant and this post of his that got his ass fired is basically the sinide pill. Now that he's planted enough doubt he can go work on some 360 game after a short vacation in Tahiti.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I demand that mrbob post so I can see which way the wind blows this evening!

:lol

 

[krypt0nian]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Don't get me wrong. I love me some Mrbob. Esp in PDZ.

 

[Lil' Dice]

If he did in fact break NDA, strikes me as petty that he would consent to an NDA and then break it simpy to at best vent or, at worst deliberately smear your former employer. It's not like he broke an NDA to expose a great injustice or some crime against humanity. He broke NDA to do nothing more than dish dirt that we'll know the truth of one way or the other in a few months regardless. He's equal parts dumb and untrustworthy - that not enough an indictment of his credibility?

Not at all. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people employed by my company who dislike the product we put out, many of them post in online forums to vent their frustrations; doesn't make them un-believable or untrustworthy, just disgruntled. I choose not to post anything detrimental to my job because I respect our guidelines, he didn't and it was his choice.

 

[Raistlin]

:lol :lol :lol


This thread is a fucking gem!!!

 

[DCharlie]

"What else is there besides realtime and prerendered?"

scripted reatime (various levels) , ingame realtime

 

[BlueTsunami]

scripted reatime (various levels) , ingame realtime

Yeah, I understand that. Realtime nonetheless. Basically a cinematic. Being scripted doesn't make it something other than realtime though. I (and everyone else for that matter) would have like to see ingame realtime ofcourse.

 

[monkeymagic]

...no, he's saying that since the 360 has such great tools and dev environment it will be easier to improve upon previous work and push the system. You cant really say what it will be like down the road because ease of development and compiler efficiency are huge in overall performance. If the tools just get better and better and compiler optimization just gets better you cant say for sure that the PS3 is going to look better over time. That is of course if the PS3 and 360 are as close in power as carmack is eluding to.

X360 is so easy to code for the games will all look next gen, run at 60fps, 720p and have free AA...

...oh wait.

But I digress, this thread is about some no name graphic artist supposedly under NDA, posting about PS3 and then supposedly losing his job over it whilst all the while being cheered on by XBox fanboys.

I don't think I need to mention the 5 dev kits :lol

Keep the faith alive.

 

[Raistlin]

You all can try your hardest to discredit the man, but the simple truth is that he worked hands-on with deveolpers, and has more credibility then the entire GAF Sony Union could ever hope to have. So, put your fears to rest for the day, keep your chins up and keep hoping for the best :lol

I think most people's argument is that his statements, at least with regards to console power, do not appear to match what the majority of other developers are saying.

 

[Ponn]

Not at all. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people employed by my company who dislike the product we put out, many of them post in online forums to vent their frustrations; doesn't make them un-believable or untrustworthy, just disgruntled. I choose not to post anything detrimental to my job because I respect our guidelines, he didn't and it was his choice.

Well, when he's applying for another job in the industry and they find out why he was fired from Sony i'm sure they will take this into consideration on his credibility.

 

[Gek54]

Xbots: "Dude, if the PS3 is not displaying a HUD then you cant call it really-real-realtime, really"

 

[krypt0nian]

X360 is so easy to code for the games will all look next gen, run at 60fps, 720p and have free AA...

...oh wait.

But I digress, this thread is about some no name graphic artist supposedly under NDA, posting about PS3 and then supposedly losing his job over it whilst all the while being cheered on by XBox fanboys.

I don't think I need to mention the 5 dev kits :lol

Keep the faith alive.

Cheered on? The majority of this thread has been level-headed.

But let's rate your post:

Sad 360 slam, discrediting artist, discrediting job loss fact, quoting dev kit post which was from months and months ago and probably true then.

Xbots: "Dude, if the PS3 is not displaying a HUD then you cant call it really-real-realtime, really"

One poster = xbots now? :lol

 

[Lil' Dice]

What else is there besides realtime and prerendered?

Your the one thats confusing terminology. What your asking for is a full blown game (which you'll be recieving possibly next month) with AI, Assets etc. This has been a common issue with the PS3 so far. Hopefully next month we'll be seeing full game vides.

With that said, theres the MGS4 Demo, Fatal Inertia, Gundam Demo etc that ARE Realtime. They DO have physics running in the background and were being controlled. The MGS4 Demo was using an actual MODEL being rendered in REALTIME, Snakes hair had a dedicated Physics process being devoted to it, theres was REALTIME lighting going on with Snakes model.

So how was that NOT realtime?

Trust me on this. Creating a scripted cinema using real time assets is much, much different than compiling multiple assets in a non scripted game environment with full AI being calculated. We both know the difference between real-time, and pre-rendered, just not the complexity, and the amount of resouces necessary to run a stable "game". Not to mention a game running at the desired frame rate and in 1080p.
A lighting demo on a model is nothing more than simple 3D model manipulation, that's it.

 

[mashoutposse]

In the same Beyond3D thread, DeanoC, the lead programmer of Heavenly Sword had this to say about his game:

Q: Since you guys are here, will the outdoor scenes in HS actually look that good in the final game? After seeing the big drop N3 seems to have taken in it's newest screens, it just seems the quality in those outdoor scenes is very very ambitious. Can you comment at all?

A: I'll stick with my previous comments, that there is nothing that we showed in the E3 demo thats not achievable at full framerate on the machine were working on.


This is what his game looks like:

Seems pretty next-gen to me...

 

[SolidSnakex]

In the same Beyond3D thread, DeanoC, the lead programmer of Heavenly Sword had this to say about his game:

Q: Since you guys are here, will the outdoor scenes in HS actually look that good in the final game? After seeing the big drop N3 seems to have taken in it's newest screens, it just seems the quality in those outdoor scenes is very very ambitious. Can you comment at all?

A: I'll stick with my previous comments, that there is nothing that we showed in the E3 demo thats not achievable at full framerate on the machine were working on.

Wait dude, he doesn't actually say the game will look like that. He says the system is capable of it. SPPPPPPPPPPIN!

 

[BlueTsunami]

Trust me on this. Creating a scripted cinema using real time assets is much, much different than compiling multiple assets in a non scripted game environment with full AI being calculated. We both know the difference between real-time, and pre-rendered, just not the complexity, and the amount of resouces necessary to run a stable "game". Not to mention a game running at the desired frame rate and in 1080p.
A lighting demo on a model is nothing more than simple 3D model manipulation, that's it.

Oh I understand were your coming from. But to atleast see a nice 3D model (Snake) being rendered with nice lighting effects and other various things happening at once (DoF and Post Processing Effects) is better than nothing at all. I would have also prefered to see actual gameplay, but we'll be seeing that in due time (hopefully).

 

[krypt0nian]

In the same Beyond3D thread, DeanoC, the lead programmer of Heavenly Sword had this to say about his game:

Q: Since you guys are here, will the outdoor scenes in HS actually look that good in the final game? After seeing the big drop N3 seems to have taken in it's newest screens, it just seems the quality in those outdoor scenes is very very ambitious. Can you comment at all?

A: I'll stick with my previous comments, that there is nothing that we showed in the E3 demo thats not achievable at full framerate on the machine were working on.


This is what his game looks like:

Seems pretty next-gen to me...

EA said that Madden would look like the target render too. Oh well.

Target renders are shit.