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[TheDuce22]

They fooled alot of people. Kudos to them.

 

[Spectral Glider]

Well, what have we seen that's impressive? Seriously. I haven't been following this stuff all that closely, but the only thing I've seen that I'm sure was real-time was the PD0 stuff, which plainly isn't impressive.

Exactly, and one console is 5 months away and the other is about a year or so. But remember, on this forum, Sony trailers and demos = bad. MS trailers and demos = good. Or so that's the popular vibe anyway. Nintendo trailers and demos = null set.

 

[Sathsquatch]

They fooled alot of people. Kudos to them.

I don't think anyone should be congratulating them on their deception. They are clearly avoiding telling the journalist that this is not a real time engine, and people seem happy that they are deceiving the public into thinking that this prerendered footage proves that the PS3 is much more powerful than the xbox 360.

 

[jimbo]

"Well, what have we seen that's impressive? Seriously. I haven't been following this stuff all that closely, but the only thing I've seen that I'm sure was real-time was the PD0 stuff, which plainly isn't impressive."

Go check out out Ghost Recon 3 then.

 

[demon]

care to tell me then? I saw the physics demos for hte PS3 which were nice, but not mindblowing. I've seen lots of pretty trailers, but no actual games running on the hardware themselves. Point me to something that is confirmed realtime that is beyond what can be done on a very high-end PC today.

I know there's been a lot of pre-rendered shit (most notably on the PS3), and it's really pissed me off. But how you can say that nothing shown in real-time has been impressive? That Unreal demo on the PS3 was amazing, and am I mistaken in saying that there aren't any PCs that can run that at that framerate (not even taking into account the fact that it was done on the PS3 in a matter of weeks)? And why are people questioning whether or not the PGR3 video is real-time? Has Bizarre ever made a pre-rendered video for a PGR game? Was there anything that seemed out of reach on the X360 in that video? Wouldn't the cars have had more detailed geometry (such as in the headlights and side mirrors) if it were pre-rendered? Has it been confirmed that it's pre-rendered?

But remember, on this forum, Sony trailers and demos = bad. MS trailers and videos = good.

Are you saying that outside of this forum it's okay that Sony released a bunch of pre-rendered shit and tried to pass it off as actual game footage?

Exactly, and one console is 5 months away and the other is about a year or so.

If it's true that the hardware they had available to show to the public is less than half the power of the final console, I'm not surprised that they didn't show a whole lot. But I dunno......everything surrounding the new console unveilings has been so fucking ambigious, it really pisses me off...

 

[TheDuce22]

They are clearly avoiding telling the journalist that this is not a real time engine, and people seem happy that they are deceiving the public into thinking that this prerendered footage proves that the PS3 is much more powerful than the xbox 360.

If MS were so far from launching they would probably do the same thing. It worked, everyone is talking about ps3 and writing off xbox 360. They dont have to admit to the truth because a year and a half from now games will probably look like that.

 

[Nerevar]

I know there's been a lot of pre-rendered shit (most notably on the PS3), and it's really pissed me off. But how you can say that nothing shown in real-time has been impressive? That Unreal demo on the PS3 was amazing, and am I mistaken in saying that there aren't any PCs that can run that at that framerate (not even taking into account the fact that it was done on the PS3 in a matter of weeks)? And why are people questioning whether or not the PGR3 video is real-time? Has Bizarre ever made a pre-rendered video for a PGR game? Was there anything that seemed out of reach on the X360 in that video? Wouldn't the cars have had more detailed geometry (such as in the headlights and side mirrors) if it were pre-rendered? Has it been confirmed that it's pre-rendered?

You're speculating that the PGR3 footage was real-time (it was more likely what Sony did for that Heavenly Sword game - render it 1-frame-at-a-time in their devkits, then clip it all together and smooth it out in post-processing). The people from Unreal basically stated that the UE3 demo was running strictly off two GeForce 6800 ULTRAs running in SLI - it wasn't using the CELL at all. I don't know if any mobos are out right now that support that, but it's still them using PC components to achieve a great result. The only thing I know for a fact is realtime is PD0 (people were playing it), and that game looks worse than a lot of games from this gen. As of right now, no one has showed anything worthwhile yet.

 

[Spectral Glider]

Are you saying that outside of this forum it's okay that Sony released a bunch of pre-rendered shit and tried to pass it off as actual game footage?

If it's true that the hardware they had available to show to the public is less than half the power of the final console, I'm not surprised that they didn't show a whole lot. But I dunno......everything surrounding the new console unveilings has been so fucking ambigious, it really pisses me off...

You don't know the facts for either case at all. None of us do.
And anyway, "touting" your current build as not being as powerful as the final product is just as much PR as throwing together a fancy looking trailer is. One is done before hand, the other is said after.

 

[Sathsquatch]

If MS were so far from launching they would probably do the same thing. It worked, everyone is talking about ps3 and writing off xbox 360. They dont have to admit to the truth because a year and a half from now games will probably look like that.

I realize that it is in their best interest to decieve the public, but that doesn't mean that anyone should condone that behavior. People are making all kind of bullshit judgments based on something that is essentially a falsehood. It would be ok if they said "we are confident that we can make a game that looks like this within the next-generation, easily" and let people know that it is a tech demo. As it is, they are just propagating a lie and it's fucking ridiculous that people are cheering them on. The same would be true if MS was doing it.

 

[PhatSaqs]

I realize that it is in their best interest to decieve the public, but that doesn't mean that anyone should condone that behavior. People are making all kind of bullshit judgments based on something that is essentially a falsehood. It would be ok if they said "we are confident that we can make a game that looks like this within the next-generation, easily" and let people know that it is a tech demo. As it is, they are just propagating a lie and it's fucking ridiculous that people are cheering them on.

Right. And most if not all of these same people BARBECUED EA with lemon and butter for doing the exact same thing. Now it seems most just want to sweep it under the rug. Hilarious :lol

 

[TheDuce22]

Right. And most if not all of these same people BARBECUED EA with lemon and butter for doing the exact same thing. Now it seems most just want to sweep it under the rug. Hilarious

I dont mind when any company does it as long as they eventually meet that target.

 

[Sync M]

After a scene swiched from one to another, it was spotted in one frame that one layer from the video was pasted BEHIND another. As you can plainly see in the above frames, the model and the background are 2 seperate PRERENDERED layers that were intergrated most likely in Maya. The animators got a little sloppy and pasted the wrong layer in front of another for one frame.

Got to give props to Sony's hype machine. It has everyone talking.

 

[dorio]

I dont mind when any company does it as long as they eventually meet that target.

I haven't once seen someone meet that target of cgi footage especially when it comes to AA quality. I say its bullshit and if you can't show me real-time then don't show me anything. Sorry but I don't like smoke being blown up my ass.

Got to give props to Sony's hype machine. It has everyone talking.

Will it eventually bite them in the ass though.

 

[Izzy]

You're speculating that the PGR3 footage was real-time (it was more likely what Sony did for that Heavenly Sword game - render it 1-frame-at-a-time in their devkits, then clip it all together and smooth it out in post-processing). The people from Unreal basically stated that the UE3 demo was running strictly off two GeForce 6800 ULTRAs running in SLI - it wasn't using the CELL at all. I don't know if any mobos are out right now that support that, but it's still them using PC components to achieve a great result. The only thing I know for a fact is realtime is PD0 (people were playing it), and that game looks worse than a lot of games from this gen. As of right now, no one has showed anything worthwhile yet.

Like bollocks it wasn't. Current PS3 dev kit = Cell + Ultra Sli.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Got to give props to Sony's hype machine. It has everyone talking.

I saw another funny thing:

 

[Spectral Glider]

They BBQed EA because their Madden "demo" wasn't impressive. And get over yourselves, acting like presenting this footage is some kind of evil like murder or rape. Man, after seeing the Episode III trailer, it better be good or I'm suing Lucas or demanding that he be brought in on fraud charges.

And we're back to the PS2 demos again I see. Please, can somebody find them and put them up again to see if we can cofirm them to be these "demos from the gods" that they seem to have become. And here's a thought, what about that early Xbox demo with the raven chick or whatever and the robot? Was that not some massive "lie" to the public also? Where's the rage, the outrage? You guys kill me.

 

[TheDuce22]

Will it eventually bite them in the ass though.

No. If it was MS maybe.

 

[dorio]

And here's a thought, what about that early Xbox demo with the raven chick or whatever and the robot? Was that not some massive "lie" to the public also?

Yes it was and it was obvious the quality difference between the two.

 

[JayFro]

It's basically a representation of the look and feel we're aiming for in the game

That should tell you right there it wasn't what will actually be in the final game, this coming from a dev himself who is performing serious damage control with that quote.

 

[PhatSaqs]

They BBQed EA because their Madden "demo" wasn't impressive. And get over yourselves, acting like presenting this footage is some kind of evil like murder or rape. Man, after seeing the Episode III trailer, it better be good or I'm suing Lucas or demanding that he be brought in on fraud charges.

And we're back to the PS2 demos again I see. Please, can somebody find them and put them up again to see if we can cofirm them to be these "demos from the gods" that they seem to have become. And here's a thought, what about that early Xbox demo with the raven chick or whatever and the robot? Was that not some massive "lie" to the public also? Where's the rage, the outrage? You guys kill me.

The people using the PS2 demos as ammo are wrong as those were surpassed. No doubt about it.

People BBQd EA because they hooped and hollered about "Madden Next Gen" and didnt show us any gameplay footage.

The Raven demo, I dont believe, was never touted as anything other than what it was, a technical demonstration. I think MS said they planned to make a game based off that demo but it never happened.

 

[jimbo]

Man I wish I had the time to post the quotes of some of the fanboys that were so hyped up on this that bashed anyone trying to tell them otherwise. You know who you are.

 

[TheDuce22]

The only thing I remember about the ps2 hype that didnt live up to it was The Getaway. It looked much better when they first showed it.

 

[Brimstone]

Got to give props to Sony's hype machine. It has everyone talking.

Wow...what happened to the unjaundiced eyes of the gaming press? Sony didn't just pull the wool over the eyes of the gaming press, they pulled an entire sheep.

 

[demon]

And here's a thought, what about that early Xbox demo with the raven chick or whatever and the robot? Was that not some massive "lie" to the public also? Where's the rage, the outrage? You guys kill me.

Why are you comparing one tech demo amongst many real games to a bunch of pre-rendered footage from announced games that's trying to be passed off as actual game footage?

The Raven dyke dancing around with some robot a "massive lie"? Gimme a fucking break.

 

[Excelion]

And we're back to the PS2 demos again I see. Please, can somebody find them and put them up again to see if we can cofirm them to be these "demos from the gods" that they seem to have become.

oh the demos are fine (but much better than launch games), it's the fact that a lot of magazines used pre-rendered stuff and described them as realtime. This time, people cant blame journalists, it's directly Sony.

 

[BuckRobotron]

Got to give props to Sony's hype machine. It has everyone talking.

Interesting. Who wrote/put this together?

 

[dark10x]

The hell? I've never even SEEN most of those pics (outside of the RRV cover art). Who tried to pass those off as realtime?

 

[Pimpwerx]

hello:



It's every bit as realtime as the Madden footage. Get our head out of the sand people. We haven't seen anything impressive yet running in realtime on either machine. Stop the fanboy madness.

I already posted about that at B3D. It's honestly not a detailed response about how it was rendered. It doesn't mention if it used in-game assets or not. That's the key. Concept renders come in many different forms. It's why some people are willing to believe the X360 concept renders and not KZ2 simply b/c KZ2 looked so much better. PEACE.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

Current PS3 dev kit = Cell + Ultra Sli.

Well gee I wonder how Tim got Unreal Tournament 2007 up and running on that so quickly. Ultra SLI without the CPU bottleneck. Hrmm .

 

[Gek54]

Playable nextgen so far, Eyetoy/duck/ship demo and PDO.