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[EarthStormFire]

IamtheFan--


Kudos to you in getting that done in two years. How long overall did you spend in undergrad, and when did you take the MCAT and apply for med school? End of junior year?


I wanted to do it in two years as well, but it's difficult at my college (and for me in particular) for a number of reasons. First off, a few years back, they decided to break up the pre-med bio courses (cell/molecular bio, organismic plant physiology, and comparative animal physiology) into lecture and lab components which MUST be taken separately; that is, the lecture must be passed before you progress to the lab. This effectively doubled the amount of time you spend getting the bio pre-reqs out of the way.

This is rediculous, this basically makes it neary impossible for non bio/chem majors from taking the required classes to get into a top medical school.

Typical requirments for Top med school is.
1 year of Chem
1 year of O-Chem
1 year of Biology
1 year of physics.
All with lab.

At your school I don't see how a non bio/chem major could do that in any reasonable amount of time.

 

[Loki]

This is rediculous, this basically makes it neary impossible for non bio/chem majors from taking the required classes to get into a top medical school.

Typical requirments for Top med school is.
1 year of Chem
1 year of O-Chem
1 year of Biology
1 year of physics.
All with lab.

At your school I don't see how a non bio/chem major could do that in any reasonable amount of time.

Well, somehow they do it. A fellow tutor and friend of mine is headed off to NYU medical school this fall, and several others have received acceptances from other reputable institutions. It definitely makes it more difficult time/logistics-wise, but not unbearably so. The most unfortunate side effect of the policy is that your schedule is constantly packed with science courses. Note that ONLY the bio department does this, and ONLY for the pre-med requirements, not for all bio major courses. So physics, chem, and o-chem are all lecture+recitation+lab at once, for 5 credits each. So it's just the bio requirements that screw you. It sucks that you can't fill your schedule with some "throw-away" courses when you're taking the more difficult sciences because of this policy, however. As an example, here is my course schedule for the past year as well as this upcoming year:


Fall '03:

Cell&Molecular Bio lecture (pre-req)
Plant Physiology lecture (pre-req)
Calculus
Chemistry 1 (pre-req; lecture/lab/recitation together, 5 credits)
Child Psychology (major requirement)


Spring '04:

Cell&Molecular Bio Lab (pre-req)
Plant Physiology Lab (pre-req)
Comparative Animal Physiology (pre-req; lecture only)
Chemistry 2 (pre-req; lecture/lab/recitation, 5 credits)
Adolescent Psychology (major elective)


Summer '04:

Cognitive and Neuropsychology (major elective)
Psycholinguistics (major elective)


Fall '04:

Organic Chemistry (lecture/lab/recitation; 5 credits, pre-req)
Physics 1 (lecture/lab/recitation; 5 credits, pre-req)
Genetics (bio lecture course, not a pre-req but very helpful)
Industrial and Organizational Psychology (major elective)


Spring '05:

Organic Chemistry 2 (lecture/lab/recitation, 5 credits; pre-req)
Physics 2 (lecture/lab/recitation, 5 credits; pre-req)
Microbiology (optional but helpful bio major course, lecture/lab; 4 credits)
Experimental Psychology (major requirement, 4 credits; lab/lecture)

(Yes, that makes 18 credits and around 21-23 credit-hours for the spring. Somebody please kill me. )



So you see, it only really hurts because, as an example, this past Spring I had to take those two bio labs in addition to chem 2 and another bio lecture; the bio courses aren't difficult, per se, but the info presented therein is voluminous, and the lab reports have to be meticulously prepared in order to get an "A" (which I needed). Had I been able to get those labs out of the way along with their respective lectures in the fall, I could have tossed in a few easier courses to supplement the physiology and chem courses, and I wouldn't have been so stressed. Granted, the Fall '03 semester would have been harder due to the added labs, but I could have just dropped the psych course and taken that in the summer (since I can't take any of these sciences in the summer, according to my advisor). Or I could have gotten physics 1 out of the way this past Spring and not had to take it with Organic Chem (instant death) this Fall. As a result of all this, I had to take two courses for my major this summer, in addition to my other obligations; so I'm pretty burnt out, since I didn't really have a "summer"-- I haven't had more than 3 straight days off since mid-January, believe it or not.


But anyway, you gotta do what you gotta do, right?

 

[Richard Cranium]

Well, UCSF is way up there in the rankings. BAH they haven't even sent me a secondary yet, and Davis doesn't even think I exist.

Hmm, you might want to check with Davis because they sent me a receipt right away and a secondary a couple of weeks later. UCSD claims to have sent me a secondary and I never received the email, so definitely check up on it if you're expecting one. I didn't and was left with only 2 weeks to complete it. UCLA and UCSF are the only two schools I'm waiting to hear from and I applied to a ton of schools. Anyway, best of luck.

 

[Boogie]

And somewhere in there folks, he manages to find enough time to fit in lengthy debates in GAF political threads

 

[Loki]

And somewhere in there folks, he manages to find enough time to fit in lengthy debates in GAF political threads

Heh, believe me, that's ending next week-- so you had better get your fill of me now.


GA has made things much harder on me than they have to be (i.e., more all-nighters due to procrastination because I was here posting/reading instead of keeping up with my studies). Don't expect to see me more than a few (very brief) times between now and mid-December.

 

[videogamer]

.

 

[Richard Cranium]

No prob. You definitely should've gotten a receipt of your AMCAS. Here's a link to check your status.

http://omeweb2.ucdavis.edu/www-secure/forms/status.htm

The Davis secondary is a pain in the ass. I think I had to write like 9 short essays or something.

That sucks about your English prof. I had a tough time asking for letters myself, so I feel your pain. Does your school send out a committee letter?

 

[videogamer]

.

 

[EarthStormFire]

Well, somehow they do it. A fellow tutor and friend of mine is headed off to NYU medical school this fall, and several others have received acceptances from other reputable institutions. It definitely makes it more difficult time/logistics-wise, but not unbearably so. The most unfortunate side effect of the policy is that your schedule is constantly packed with science courses. Note that ONLY the bio department does this, and ONLY for the pre-med requirements, not for all bio major courses. So physics, chem, and o-chem are all lecture+recitation+lab at once, for 5 credits each. So it's just the bio requirements that screw you. It sucks that you can't fill your schedule with some "throw-away" courses when you're taking the more difficult sciences because of this policy, however. As an example, here is my course schedule for the past year as well as this upcoming year:


Fall '03:

Cell&Molecular Bio lecture (pre-req)
Plant Physiology lecture (pre-req)
Calculus
Chemistry 1 (pre-req; lecture/lab/recitation together, 5 credits)
Child Psychology (major requirement)


Spring '04:

Cell&Molecular Bio Lab (pre-req)
Plant Physiology Lab (pre-req)
Comparative Animal Physiology (pre-req; lecture only)
Chemistry 2 (pre-req; lecture/lab/recitation, 5 credits)
Adolescent Psychology (major elective)


Summer '04:

Cognitive and Neuropsychology (major elective)
Psycholinguistics (major elective)


Fall '04:

Organic Chemistry (lecture/lab/recitation; 5 credits, pre-req)
Physics 1 (lecture/lab/recitation; 5 credits, pre-req)
Genetics (bio lecture course, not a pre-req but very helpful)
Industrial and Organizational Psychology (major elective)


Spring '05:

Organic Chemistry 2 (lecture/lab/recitation, 5 credits; pre-req)
Physics 2 (lecture/lab/recitation, 5 credits; pre-req)
Microbiology (optional but helpful bio major course, lecture/lab; 4 credits)
Experimental Psychology (major requirement, 4 credits; lab/lecture)

(Yes, that makes 18 credits and around 21-23 credit-hours for the spring. Somebody please kill me. )



So you see, it only really hurts because, as an example, this past Spring I had to take those two bio labs in addition to chem 2 and another bio lecture; the bio courses aren't difficult, per se, but the info presented therein is voluminous, and the lab reports have to be meticulously prepared in order to get an "A" (which I needed). Had I been able to get those labs out of the way along with their respective lectures in the fall, I could have tossed in a few easier courses to supplement the physiology and chem courses, and I wouldn't have been so stressed. Granted, the Fall '03 semester would have been harder due to the added labs, but I could have just dropped the psych course and taken that in the summer (since I can't take any of these sciences in the summer, according to my advisor). Or I could have gotten physics 1 out of the way this past Spring and not had to take it with Organic Chem (instant death) this Fall. As a result of all this, I had to take two courses for my major this summer, in addition to my other obligations; so I'm pretty burnt out, since I didn't really have a "summer"-- I haven't had more than 3 straight days off since mid-January, believe it or not.


But anyway, you gotta do what you gotta do, right?

That schedual looked terrible. So much class every quarter. How long do you expect it will take you to graduate.

 

[Loki]

That schedual looked terrible. So much class every quarter. How long do you expect it will take you to graduate.

Well that's really unrelated to the facts at hand, because I screwed up for many years, so it's taking me a good long while to graduate-- that's all I'll say about that. It would have taken 4 years had I not failed previously; many students at my uni complete their degree and gain acceptance to med school in 4 years-- some even in 3 years (mostly bio majors, because their degree requirements overlap with the pre-med pre-reqs, as I stated earlier). But yeah, the courseload sucks ass.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

Kudos to you in getting that done in two years. How long overall did you spend in undergrad, and when did you take the MCAT and apply for med school? End of junior year?

Yeah, it sounds like what your school makes you go through is kinda a bitch. Here's how my things worked out.

First of all, when I meant that you could do it in two years, I meant the pre-med requirements. I have a friend who's now doing a post-bacc at Columbia for two years knocking out the pre-med reqs and MCAT. Anyhow, here's how it ended up for me:

The first year was bio and chem; this consisted of a year of 3 quarters; plant and animal cell biology, genetics, and human physiology and pop. ecology, all with appropriate labs, all of which was taken at the same time. Also, the same year, I had a year of chem 101-103 w/lab. I was undecided at the time, but knocked out Spanish, and the psych 101-103, in addition to a lot of sporadic electives.

Second year was o-chem and physics, both with appropriate labs. I also took stats (since I chose to be a biopsych major) and every single film course offered (also because I was undecided up until the end of second year and was considering either film or biopsych for my major.)

Third and fourth year were about getting out all my major related stuff, stuff for Honors programs, etc. I hit up about 15-16 psych classes, and about 4 biological psych classes, along with the rest of the free electives I needed to take. Also, I was thinking about getting a bio minor (there's not much overlap between biopsych and bio, but I was halfway there anyways) so I took Urban Ecology, Animal Physiology, A&P, and Microbio. By the time I got to my last quarter at school though and was enrolled in Neuro and Hum & Comparative anatomy, I had gotten into med school, and dropped 'em; gotta take it easy some times.

One thing that admittedly made it easier for me was I came in with a lot of AP credit. This made my University courseload easier. However, I needed to start from scratch for my College courseload (i.e. the biopsych stuff.)

MCAT was taken twice; once in April of Junior year, and once in August between Jr. and Sr. year. E.C's were things like pre med societies (you guys probably have a charter of AED,) another one called Caducea, I did research under a physiological psych prof my last year, shadowing, volunteer etc. I applied Sr. year.

Honestly, I never really felt rushed, and only felt stressed twice; during second quarter O-chem when Satan taught, and studying for MCAT the second time. The MCAT thing was just because it was my last time to take it in college, and the prof thing is only slightly an exaggeration. Everybody talks about how their O-chem prof sucks; our guy came from Haaaarvard, for his whole educational career, and seemed discontent about teaching as it was getting in the way of his research. Also, he asked questions on the exams where seriously you had no prior information of solving it (it didn't matter if you studied or not because the stuff wasn't gonna be on the exams) and the worst thing was, he had his 50+ FRIEND REGISTER just so he could kill the curve. Average of the 1st exam was a 34, 2nd exam was a 23, and I don't know what the final was like. I seriously got so pissed off that halfway through an exam, i started spelling words out of the elements of the periodic table. You know you can spell "Amputate" with elements?

Anyhow, I hope that gives you some background. From the sounds of it, you got a pretty good grasp on all the stuff, and you're almost done with that section of your life.

Oh, and don't use up all that stress energy just quite yet. You're gonna need to save some for med school. I'm in week 2 and I'm already starting to feel it.

 

[Loki]

Yeah, it sounds like what your school makes you go through is kinda a bitch. Here's how my things worked out.

First of all, when I meant that you could do it in two years, I meant the pre-med requirements. I have a friend who's now doing a post-bacc at Columbia for two years knocking out the pre-med reqs and MCAT. Anyhow, here's how it ended up for me:

The first year was bio and chem; this consisted of a year of 3 quarters; plant and animal cell biology, genetics, and human physiology and pop. ecology, all with appropriate labs, all of which was taken at the same time. Also, the same year, I had a year of chem 101-103 w/lab. I was undecided at the time, but knocked out Spanish, and the psych 101-103, in addition to a lot of sporadic electives.

Second year was o-chem and physics, both with appropriate labs. I also took stats (since I chose to be a biopsych major) and every single film course offered (also because I was undecided up until the end of second year and was considering either film or biopsych for my major.)

Third and fourth year were about getting out all my major related stuff, stuff for Honors programs, etc. I hit up about 15-16 psych classes, and about 4 biological psych classes, along with the rest of the free electives I needed to take. Also, I was thinking about getting a bio minor (there's not much overlap between biopsych and bio, but I was halfway there anyways) so I took Urban Ecology, Animal Physiology, A&P, and Microbio. By the time I got to my last quarter at school though and was enrolled in Neuro and Hum & Comparative anatomy, I had gotten into med school, and dropped 'em; gotta take it easy some times.

One thing that admittedly made it easier for me was I came in with a lot of AP credit. This made my University courseload easier. However, I needed to start from scratch for my College courseload (i.e. the biopsych stuff.)

MCAT was taken twice; once in April of Junior year, and once in August between Jr. and Sr. year. E.C's were things like pre med societies (you guys probably have a charter of AED,) another one called Caducea, I did research under a physiological psych prof my last year, shadowing, volunteer etc. I applied Sr. year.

Honestly, I never really felt rushed, and only felt stressed twice; during second quarter O-chem when Satan taught, and studying for MCAT the second time. The MCAT thing was just because it was my last time to take it in college, and the prof thing is only slightly an exaggeration. Everybody talks about how their O-chem prof sucks; our guy came from Haaaarvard, for his whole educational career, and seemed discontent about teaching as it was getting in the way of his research. Also, he asked questions on the exams where seriously you had no prior information of solving it (it didn't matter if you studied or not because the stuff wasn't gonna be on the exams) and the worst thing was, he had his 50+ FRIEND REGISTER just so he could kill the curve. Average of the 1st exam was a 34, 2nd exam was a 23, and I don't know what the final was like. I seriously got so pissed off that halfway through an exam, i started spelling words out of the elements of the periodic table. You know you can spell "Amputate" with elements?

Anyhow, I hope that gives you some background. From the sounds of it, you got a pretty good grasp on all the stuff, and you're almost done with that section of your life.

Oh, and don't use up all that stress energy just quite yet. You're gonna need to save some for med school. I'm in week 2 and I'm already starting to feel it.

Haha, that organic professor sounds exactly like my professor this semester-- he's also an old-school Haaaarvard Ph.D (from way back before all the grade inflation nonsense, when it actually meant something ) who's tenured, so he doesn't give a damn about how his classes perform; in fact, he relishes punishing pre-meds, and actually tells his classes that if they want to get into med school, they're going to have to go through him. Unfortunately, he's the only professor who teaches orgo in the Fall at my uni, and the class starts out as ~150 kids; this number drops to about 60-70 after the first exam when the students scramble to file those withdrawal slips after realizing that the class average was a 35 or so. Of the 60-70 who manage to survive the course, only 1-3 get A's each semester-- I'm hoping to be one of them. Wish me luck. This guy sounds so similar to the professor you describe that it's scary. He's even the same way with exams-- supposedly NOTHING you studied is on the exams, and he comes up with ridiculous questions that, believe it or not, some of the other organic professors at my school couldn't answer (yes, it's true-- and he wants undergrads to answer them). You didn't go to school in NY, perchance, did you? The similarities are very eerie, to say the least.

And then I have physics (same deal as orgo at my school) and genetics on top of that, along with a psych class that I'm hoping won't be a pain in the ass (i.e., no more than a single paper and 2-3 exams)....yay is me. I'll need to do a legitimate 30-40 hours of studying/HW per week this semester if I'm going to get those A's. I've never done more than 15-20 hours per week (and even then, only during midterms/finals), so wish me luck. <crosses fingers>


But yeah, the pre-reqs themselves can definitely be done in 2 years-- I was just wondering how/when you got the EC's and MCAT stuff done along with that. I was about to hang my head in shame. Best of luck to you in your studies.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Not envying you guys. Luckily, the match is easier in effort and lacks the random nature of getting into med school. They figure since you got thru med school, it's time to stop kicking you in the nuts. That all starts back up intern year.

 

[wipeout364]

Its a little different in Canada, You still need the MCAT and an undergraduate degree. But there are less schools and they are sort of all attached. All universities are government run. After med school you enter a match to go into your field. The time sounds similar 2 years for family is the shortest while Cardiac or neuro surgery is 6 years.

It is pretty competitive here I would suggest not having a less than an A- average, and a lot of schools require the same premed courses. though your undergrad is pretty open. I did Engineering with aerospace (5 1/2 years), Medicine (4 years), and now midway through my specialty (anesthesia 5 years).

Honestly if you ask me the money will be good when I see it but I feel like I am missing alot of my life. You will be on call at least every fourth day which means 32 hour straight shifts which will take you two days to recover from (ie if you were on call tuesday you would go to work tuesday morning work all day all night till wenesday at 12:00 noon and return to work on thursday), only to go back on call again.

You will have to do this for three to five years depending on your residency. You will work every second weekend for those five years plus your regular work week. YOu will work a longer work week than most of the general population plus be required to study almost every night for exams because the amount of things you need to know is crazy.

Anyway if you are thinking about it go for it but just know what you are looking forward to.

 

[miyuru]

I used to want to go into med but after working at a hospital, I rather be a pharmacist and then get my masters in business.

But really, I don't want to do anything

 

[NetMapel]

I'm somewhat interested in becoming a doctor even though I sucked badly at biology and is now majoring in business. I'm thinking of taking some biology and chemistry courses during summer to see if I am fit. If I am fit, then I might stay another extra year or two after I graduate with my business degree, and get into a medical school. How does this plan sound ? Oh, I'm going onto my second year this term

 

[videogamer]

I used to want to go into med but after working at a hospital, I rather be a pharmacist and then get my masters in business.

But really, I don't want to do anything

Hehe my thoughts exactly

 

[NetMapel]

Oh, also, is there a huge difference between Canadian and American pre-med and stuff ?

 

[Richard Cranium]

I'm somewhat interested in becoming a doctor even though I sucked badly at biology and is now majoring in business. I'm thinking of taking some biology and chemistry courses during summer to see if I am fit. If I am fit, then I might stay another extra year or two after I graduate with my business degree, and get into a medical school. How does this plan sound ?

At the school I'm currently attending, it's recommended that you complete the pre-med requirements before you graduate if you can. I don't know how it is at other schools, but post-bacc students here get the lowest priority and you may have a difficult time getting into the required classes.