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[xelios]

I just don't think those are things that non-medicinal means aren't capable of addressing.

It depends on the person and situation. Anyway, a psychiatrist is the most qualified to make that call.

Mine has asked me several times if I wanted to try therapy alone without medication, do you want to stop these medications etc. and I did for a while. I did solely CBT and individual counseling for a long time (they did not fix the problem like the medicine did).

 

[Uchip]

I just don't think those are things that non-medicinal means aren't capable of addressing.

and on what basis are you making this claim?

 

[Jangocube]

I just don't think those are things that non-medicinal means aren't capable of addressing.

Would have agreed with you 5 years ago, but having seen people that suffer from severe depression and other mental disorders, I firmly believe that medication is absolutely needed for some.

Not trying to be a doctor, but xelios sounds like a person where medicine is definitely the right path. Having tried therapy, and continued to do so, only to find out that additional help was needed, medicine as the next step is definitely the right move. It's all chemical. Sometimes people need a little help balancing everything out.

By the time I get the mail and am walking back toward the door of my apartment it's almost a full blown panic. I'm walking the fastest now, my palms are sweating and I'm breathing irregularly. When I walk inside and shut the door, there's some kind of chemical release in my body (like endorphins) and I feel relieved/almost high like someone just gave me a shot of morphine.

If I take 2mg of Klonopin ~30 minutes before I know I will have a situation like this I can avoid all that. It's pretty terrible and more disabling than people expect.

Yeah, it sounds like you are doing the right thing so far. You just gotta live with it and keep working on pushing yourself a little further every day. A girl I know suffers from panic attacks and they can be pretty debilitating.

Sorry to hear that you go through that, but at least you have found something that helps relieve some of those reactions.

 

[kehs]

I just don't think those are things that non-medicinal means aren't capable of addressing.

Alot of "mental illnesses" are heavily related to physiological issues that can only be altered through a combination of chemical modification and cognitive behavioral therapy.

 

[Hydranockz]

and on what basis are you making this claim?

On the basis that I don't believe anything that changes your/my behaviour is something that can fix you/me. It's just my belief. My behaviour simply should not be the result of a pill or a bottle or some weed. Those things are not a part of me, nor shall they ever be. If what people see and like me for is because of the effects of some thing, what does that really say about me? Do I rely on that substance to be the real me? How the hell is that make me feel good about myself? Talking to someone about anything or a 10 minute walk in the fresh outdoors or a few sit-ups every day are things not to be overlooked in mental care.

Like I said earlier, maybe it is just a US thing or maybe I am too naive to such things over on this side of the pond. It's all for another thread really... Don't take too much offence, please. I certainly respect people's decisions and beliefs on the matter. I understand meds often really help people lead very happy lives compared to life without. That's just not a life for me.

 

[kehs]

On the basis that I don't believe anything that changes your/my behaviour is something that can fix you/me. It's just my belief. My behaviour simply should not be the result of a pill or a bottle or some weed. Those things are not a part of me, nor shall they ever be. If what people see and like me for is because of the effects of some thing, what does that really say about me? Do I rely on that substance to be the real me? How the hell is that make me feel good about myself? Talking to someone about anything or a 10 minute walk in the fresh outdoors or a few sit-ups every day are things not to be overlooked in mental care.

Like I said earlier, maybe it is just a US thing or maybe I am too naive to such things over on this side of the pond. It's all for another thread really... Don't take too much offence, please. I certainly respect people's decisions and beliefs on the matter. I understand meds often really help people lead very happy lives compared to life without. That's just not a life for me.

The problem is you having a "belief" about something that has scientific backing that says otherwise.

 

[xelios]

On the basis that I don't believe anything that changes your/my behaviour is something that can fix you/me. It's just my belief. My behaviour simply should not be the result of a pill or a bottle or some weed. Those things are not a part of me, nor shall they ever be. If what people see and like me for is because of the effects of some thing, what does that really say about me? Do I rely on that substance to be the real me? How the hell is that make me feel good about myself? Talking to someone about anything or a 10 minute walk in the fresh outdoors or a few sit-ups every day are things not to be overlooked in mental care.

Your problem is you're not taking mental illness as seriously as physical illness, in that you believe medication is only a proper treatment for one of them. Most of said people started getting left behind in the 70s but hey at least you stand out in 2011, even if you are utterly ignorant.

 

[Cyan]

On the basis that I don't believe anything that changes your/my behaviour is something that can fix you/me.

What if you/me can't be fixed? What if you/me can be fixed, but the cost is prohibitively high? Isn't it possible that sometimes the bandaid is, in fact, the best solution?

Highly recommended reading: this is probably the best article I have ever read on the subject of social/mental conditions vs diseases, and how they can and should be treated. Completely changed my way of thinking about the issue.

 

[The Technomancer]

The problem is you having a "belief" about something that has scientific backing that says otherwise.

Indeed. That's something that actually raises a lot of disturbing questions about personality and free will, that most people just kind of dance around because its really difficult to look at.

 

[sixteen-bit]

7. Ask 5 random girls for a blowjob

8. Get pepper sprayed

 

[Hydranockz]

The problem is you having a "belief" about something that has scientific backing that says otherwise.

This is true to the extent that if I were to take a pill expecting to feel happier, I would feel happier. I am as optimistic about walking/talking as the person who expects the pills to work. A persons thinking and expectations can almost negate/enhance the use of some pills. I'll have to dig for links but it was on BBC news before how it was proven that sugar pills can turn into pretty good painkillers when you tell the person they're taking a painkiller. Placebo effects work as both a positive and a negative in that regard. I think far too negatively of the effects of any pill really.

I get a headache, I get some fresh air. I know people who reach for painkillers on the first sign of having a headache. I would gladly stretch out other means first and upon failing those, then take pills. I don't doubt pills contrary to what one might think from my posts. I gladly accept what those pills can do. I just want to wait until I am absolutely certain that those pills are the best course for me.

Wow... that was long winded... sorry dudes. I can edit that out if it's too off topic... I've been pondering a thread on the matter for a while :/

 

[Jangocube]

I gladly accept what those pills can do. I just want to wait until I am absolutely certain that those pills are the best course for me.

I honestly believe that's what most people think as well. Sure, someone will reach for the pill because they think it will be easier/faster, but most people just want to get help in the best way possible. And for some, medicine is the only real thing that helps.

 

[kehs]

This is true to the extent that if I were to take a pill expecting to feel happier, I would feel happier. I am as optimistic about walking/talking as the person who expects the pills to work. A persons thinking and expectations can almost negate/enhance the use of some pills. I'll have to dig for links but it was on BBC news before how it was proven that sugar pills can turn into pretty good painkillers when you tell the person they're taking a painkiller. Placebo effects work as both a positive and a negative in that regard. I think far too negatively of the effects of any pill really.

I get a headache, I get some fresh air. I know people who reach for painkillers on the first sign of having a headache. I would gladly stretch out other means first and upon failing those, then take pills. I don't doubt pills contrary to what one might think from my posts. I gladly accept what those pills can do. I just want to wait until I am absolutely certain that those pills are the best course for me.

Wow... that was long winded... sorry dudes. I can edit that out if it's too off topic... I've been pondering a thread on the matter for a while :/

Stop thinking about mental illness like a symptom of the flu, and you'll being to understand that half of what your saying is asinine.

 

[Hydranockz]

I honestly believe that's what most people think as well. Sure, someone will reach for the pill because they think it will be easier/faster, but most people just want to get help in the best way possible. And for some, medicine is the only real thing that helps.

That about sums up my problems with it. It's that small number of people who think the easiest/fastest solution is best... Fuuuuck, more often than not, that can lead to suicide... Talk about two sides to every coin. Ok, ok, I really don't hate pills at all if it beats people to suicide.

Epiphany moment was had.

@Copernicus: I really don't believe it is a symptom at all. Rather shockingly, the attitude to mental illness here in Ireland for years has been one of, "oh it's not a real problem" and people's pride getting in the way of seeking help. It's lead to many suicides and ruined lives and taking pills is infinitely better than doing nothing at all. I feel as though if more people were aware of the serious benefits of walking/exercising or talking to close friends/professionals, then people wouldn't be in that dark place. I only differ with you in that I am just also aware that an awful lot of people can get addicted to their meds which is why I strongly advocate the other therapies as a first option.

Edit: Not anxiety related as such, but a correlation exists for sure.

Hope that clarifies some things.

 

[Shalashaska]

20 years of debilitating social anxiety trying what I could do to fix it and nope. Went to the doctor and Paxil + Seroquel = 180 degree change. It has been fantastic.

 

[Kentpaul]

8. Smoke weed everyday

This, weed numbs out my anxiety, alcohol makes me feels part of the general public

But i ain't speaking to the public!

 

[Apple Sauce]

Alcohol makes me feel like regular, it's my saviour. Weed freaks me the fuck out. We should have an anxiety-gaf, I'm terrified of next uni semester, my doc refuses to give me anything but beta blockers

 

[winter]

What brand of 5-htp do you take?

Natrol. You can get it at GNC or walmart.

I really suggest that the people that want help with their social anxiety but are afraid of the side effects of anti-depressants try 5-HTP or L-Trypophan. The people that are on antidepressants like paxil and prozac feel better because social anxiety is almost always a serotonin deficiency and paxil and proxac are SSRIs that act on the serotonergic system. 5-HTP and L-Tryptophan are natural supplements that increase the serotonin in the body without the side effects of ADs.

 

[Kentpaul]

Alcohol makes me feel like regular. Weed freaks me the fuck out. We should have an anxiety-gaf, I'm terrified of next uni semester

Even a little weed ?, a joint or 2 , I wouln't leave the house full blown stoned, but a casual joint does the trick for me when heading out

Also a coffee works for me, i can say hello and shit to people i pass but if they were to start a conv i'd freak the fuck out.

Hope my doctor gives me some benzos so i can pat social problems goodbye.

 

[Apple Sauce]

Even a little weed ?, a joint or 2 , I wouln't leave the house full blown stoned, but a casual joint does the trick for me when heading out

Also a coffee works for me, i can say hello and shit to people i pass but if they were to start a conv i'd freak the fuck out.

Hope my doctor gives me some benzos so i can pat social problems goodbye.

Maybe a cheeky toke would be ok, I just try to avoid it though. I also try to avoid caffeine and I've stopped smoking tobacco. No fun at all! I live for getting pissed though, haha.

As for the challenge, I'm good with minor social interactions, It's more intense situations that ruin me.

 

[Prez]

What's with this medication vs therapy discussion. Can we just do the challenge now? :/

 

[winter]

Even a little weed ?, a joint or 2 , I wouln't leave the house full blown stoned, but a casual joint does the trick for me when heading out

Also a coffee works for me, i can say hello and shit to people i pass but if they were to start a conv i'd freak the fuck out.

Hope my doctor gives me some benzos so i can pat social problems goodbye.

Benzodiazepine is notorious for its long-term side effects and that it will eventually make anxiety and depression much worse.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Despite my social anxiety (and I have high social and regular anxiety), I can still perform most of these challenges. My problem is with actual conversation. I even have problems carrying a conversation with good friends. Combine that with being currently depressed and feeling lonely, and it makes things worse.

Actually, I'm not too afraid to say I'm crying out for help right now. With some bad recent events that have occurred for me, I'm at a loss. It was enough to make me blank out, walk into the street and nearly getting hit by a car. Really just lost.

 

[99hertz]

Spoiler

Just read xelios' posts and decided to post a doubt and my situation in general. I added something relevant to the topic at the end so it wouldn't be that bad.

I'm thinking about going to a psychologist and I'm wondering if he/she will refer me to a psychiatrist if he/she considered it necessary. I just wanted to know because I talked with my family and they are more positive about me going to a psychologist than a psychiatrist. I think it would be better if a psychiatrist gave me something for the short-term (if he/she thought it was ok) and some sort of therapy for the long-term. (Or whatever it's best, I don't know.)

It's kind of weird, as I force myself to do things like deal with people daily, go to class and give presentations and whatnot and I'm the level that if I answer something in class or speak with someone I can feel myself fainting (like everything goes blank) and when I "come back", I start sweating a lot. Bad thing is that all this is making me feel depressed-like and I'm thinking about killing myself daily and it's scary because I know I would do it if things got worse.

As for the challenges, I do most of them daily (the anxiety isn't that bad when dealing with strangers for short periods of time) but when they get personal like 2 and 4...there's no way I could do them.

 

[Fantasmo]

Natrol. You can get it at GNC or walmart.

I really suggest that the people that want help with their social anxiety but are afraid of the side effects of anti-depressants try 5-HTP or L-Trypophan. The people that are on antidepressants like paxil and prozac feel better because social anxiety is almost always a serotonin deficiency and paxil and proxac are SSRIs that act on the serotonergic system. 5-HTP and L-Tryptophan are natural supplements that increase the serotonin in the body without the side effects of ADs.

Tyrosine also. I had a great book on all this but I can't remember what it was for the life of me. Helped a lot but I couldn't find a balance, my mood would shift through the day from really confident to beat. I imagine it would be perfect for some people however.

EDIT: Wow nevermind, I FOUND IT!

Free ebook called The Way Up. I think it was written by a doctor? I can't remember. Feel free to google for more info and obviously use your own judgement etc etc!
Here's a link: http://www.thewayup.com/ebook/f/TheWayUp.pdf

 

[LProtag]

My general practitioner prescribed me Valium when I talked to him and told him I was having anxiety issues.

Anyway, I never set any real goals like in the OP because, obviously I would freak out about just thinking about doing them. Instead I just attempted to force myself to include myself in things during college and try to get involved. It's worked somewhat, I still get nervous in a lot of social situations and decide to 'sit out' of a lot of activities, but I make sure to do as many things out with people as I feel comfortable with.

 

[Jangocube]

Actually, I'm not too afraid to say I'm crying out for help right now. With some bad recent events that have occurred for me, I'm at a loss. It was enough to make me blank out, walk into the street and nearly getting hit by a car. Really just lost.

I would try to talk to somebody if you have the means too.

It's kind of weird, as I force myself to do things like deal with people daily, go to class and give presentations and whatnot and I'm the level that if I answer something in class or speak with someone I can feel myself fainting (like everything goes blank) and when I "come back", I start sweating a lot. Bad thing is that all this is making me feel depressed-like and I'm thinking about killing myself daily and it's scary because I know I would do it if things got worse.

You definitely suffer from depression and I would go with whatever your family recommends since they seem to be behind you on this.

 

[=HERO=]

Checking in. I'd like to say I'm nowhere near as bad off as some of you unfortunately are, I've gotten better and have improved a lot over the last few years of really changing my outlook and behavior.

Completely cold approaches are still a problem. I also have a problem, hard to explain, where It's not that hard for me to socialize with a few people or a small group (especially if I know at least one person well enough to have them as an "anchor" of sorts), but once it hits a certain number of people, I just go a bit blank. I have no clue how to contribute meaningfully to a group that size, and second guess myself enough where I have no chance to.

Related topic, not knowing how to really flirt (despite looking at many, many tutorials) or be able to tell if someone else is flirting or not doesn't help

 

[Fantasmo]

What I know of social anxiety is that it's a very multifaceted issue.

For some people, a change in environment or friendlier friends can change things around completely.
Making small goals for yourself or small bets with SUPPORTIVE friends to help overcome social hurdles.
Laughing at yourself and mistakes.
Rewarding yourself for overcoming sticking points.
Exercise
Healthier diet
Adequate sleep
Avoiding too many mind altering substances (since they temporarily increase but ultimately deplete the brain's happy neurotransmitters, especially over time)
Amino acids/vitamin supplements (as mentioned tryptophan, 5htp, and tyrosine can be game changers as they increase happy neurotransmitters)
Antidepressants

I'm especially fond of consistent cardio, because it releases endorphins which calm the body and mind, especially over time.

I'm personally against using benzos for Social Anxiety, but I don't hold it against anybody for whom it really works and doesn't cause any major issues.

 

[winter]

Tyrosine also. I had a great book on all this but I can't remember what it was for the life of me. Helped a lot but I couldn't find a balance, my mood would shift through the day from really confident to beat. I imagine it would be perfect for some people however.

EDIT: Wow nevermind, I FOUND IT!

Free ebook called The Way Up. I think it was written by a doctor? I can't remember. Feel free to google for more info and obviously use your own judgement etc etc!
Here's a link: http://www.thewayup.com/ebook/f/TheWayUp.pdf

The Way Up is a great book. I'm pretty sure it was written before the mass production of 5-htp so it only mentions L-Tryptophan though.

I really hope some people here read this. Big Pharmaceutical has done a good job of creating the perception that the supplement industry is completely bogus in order to retain profits. But 5-HTP, L-Trytophan, and L-Tyrosine are legit and really do work.

And to the people that think anxiety is some sort of flaw in their personality that they have to overcome through sheer will power, it really isn't. It's a biological problem. I spent most of my teenage existence thinking I was a simply a giant pussy because I couldn't walk into social situations without an immense feeling of dread. I thought it was my nature to be painfully social awkward and that I would simply have to find ways to develop social skills. The truth was that I was sick. Anxiety is an illness. Once I started boosting the serotonin in my brain, it was amazing how everything fell right into place.

 

[Fantasmo]

The Way Up is a great book. I'm pretty sure it was written before the mass production of 5-htp so it only mentions L-Tryptophan though.

I really hope some people here read this. Big Pharmaceutical has done a good job of creating the perception that the supplement industry is completely bogus in order to retain profits. But 5-HTP, L-Trytophan, and L-Tyrosine are legit and really do work.

And to the people that think anxiety is some sort of flaw in their personality that they have to overcome through sheer will power, it really isn't. It's a biological problem. I spent most of my teenage existence thinking I was a simply a giant pussy because I couldn't walk into social situations without an immense feeling of dread. I thought it was my nature to be painfully social awkward and that I would simply have to find ways to develop social skills. The truth was that I was sick. Anxiety is an illness. Once I started boosting the serotonin in my brain, it was amazing how everything fell right into place.

I think it was updated a few years back. 5htp was explained to be a possible replacement for Tryptophan (complete with recommended doses) but I think she recommended trying tryptophan first.

I'm completely with you here by the way. If you have a chemical issue, no amount of real world stuff will compare to feeding your brain properly. It is amazing what a good nutrition (including Tryptophan and other amino acid supplements) will do. Everyone is different but don't count em out. They can totally be GAME CHANGERS.

 

[Suburban_Nooblet]

DRINK MORE.

 

[ATF487]

DRINK MORE.

This works when I'm drunk, but I can't be drunk all the time (sadly)

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I would try to talk to somebody if you have the means too.

I have a friend I've been hanging out with a lot lately. However, his fiancee just passed away and he's moving out of state soon. The rest of my friends all have their own problems and/or lives to lead. I've tried moving away, as I had a couple of good friends who I could have moved in with during looking for work, but one lives with his fiancees parents and the other I haven't heard from. So, yeah, right now my life is a bit in the shitter.

 

[xelios]

Spoiler

I'm thinking about going to a psychologist and I'm wondering if he/she will refer me to a psychiatrist if he/she considered it necessary. I just wanted to know because I talked with my family and they are more positive about me going to a psychologist than a psychiatrist. I think it would be better if a psychiatrist gave me something for the short-term (if he/she thought it was ok) and some sort of therapy for the long-term. (Or whatever it's best, I don't know.)

Spoiler

Yes. That's exactly what the routine is at the place I go to now. It's not exactly a small office though; 4 psychiatrists in the same building. My first visit was with a psychologist and then I started seeing a psychiatrist there (petite Polish woman who is just awesome).

The psychiatrist will (or should) coordinate your therapy according to your diagnosis and prescribe medicine if they feel you need it. My psychiatrist is the reason for all of my progress. She didn't just give me meds but made me do CBT, individual counseling, and set me up with EMDR for past trauma. She also offered me the option of not taking meds at all, or trying ECT since I was so desperate to get rid of nightmares, which I declined to do EMDR instead.

 

[Stylo]

I've suffered this all of high school and it ended up screwing me over to this day a ton. Some days I have a ton of confidence wherever I go and other days I can't even look people in the eye or stand in line to buy something. It's emasculating when I can't look a girl in the eye without getting shifty eyes.

 

[BigAT]

Listen to this for a week or less and I guarantee you will shed most or all of your anxiety

http://www.davishypnosis.com/Ascension_Hypnosis_Blog/?p=1939

have fun

Am I missing something or is this nothing but half an hour of mildly relaxing musics/sounds?

 

[Fantasmo]

Did a little research last night and found out that for some people, tyrosine and tryptophan stop working after a few weeks because they require niacin and vitamin b6 to metabolize properly and if your levels go up of the former you need more of the latter for it to work properly.

I might have to give this another go. Sure beats mentally pumping myself up all the time lol.

 

[Warrior_Keoni]

Simplest way for me is to smile and say good morning to the people I pass by, even on the shuttle bus. I can't tell you how bus drivers and people working at service counters love greetings.

Don't forget to compliment your barista, cahsier, even on the phone. Courtesy goes a long way and makes you even feel better about yourself!

 

[bengraven]

Great thread! *ed it for later.

I'll Livejournal it up when I get a chance to talk about my crippling social anxiety.

Try and feign interest until I come back. ha

 

[Kentpaul]

The problem with saying hello and shit to people you pass is that some assholes don't say hello back and just blank you out and keep walking..

but this only happens to me after about 6 others have said hello/good morning back.

I also nod to every man i pass, the man nods back, i guess thats a scottish thing.

 

[Prez]

How many of you are up for this now? Probably my last post if this meds vs therapy discussion goes on.

 

[BobsRevenge]

DRINK MORE.

True. Not only do you get social experience from experimenting in a drunken state, but eventually you kill enough brain cells to just not give a shit anymore.

 

[wormstrangler]

I'm likely more shy than socially anxious. I find it funny that on occasion I'll be wondering how my walking style looks. And then my mind will start to wonder if I'm swinging my arms properly. Around this time, I start looking like a robot.

 

[kehs]

True. Not only do you get social experience from experimenting in a drunken state, but eventually you kill enough brain cells to just not give a shit anymore.

I tried...it doesn't work. =(

 

[TurboLibre]

The likely reception to these actions will probably reinforce any social anxiety.

No it won't. I've never got a negative reaction from quick smile or a simple "hello" and I do it fairly often.

 

[winter]

I'm likely more shy than socially anxious. I find it funny that on occasion I'll be wondering how my walking style looks. And then my mind will start to wonder if I'm swinging my arms properly. Around this time, I start looking like a robot.

Haha, you are a textbook anxiety case. Self-consciousness to the degree where you are worried about how you walk is not simply shyness.

 

[wormstrangler]

Haha, you are a textbook anxiety case. Self-consciousness to the degree where you are worried about how you walk is not simply shyness.

it only happens here and there, not a full time thing.

 

[Cubsfan23]

Am I missing something or is this nothing but half an hour of mildly relaxing musics/sounds?

subliminal affirmations that you won't hear, but your subconscious will.

 

[scar tissue]

i've been following a simple rule, and it's gotten me pretty far in the last 2 years
the more afraid i am of doing something, the more important it is that i do it
i was deathly afraid of dancing, so i took up dancing classes (which i failed horribly and subsequently realized that rejection/ridicule by girls isn't the end of the world), i used to run around aimlessly when searching for an ATM, so i started asking random people on the street (may not seem a big deal to you, but i was fucking terrified of this two years ago), started meeting new people, doing a little small talk if appropriate (i.e. at a small grocery store, when getting a shot at the doctor's,...), joined a sports club, and so on
i also started working out, and although visible results are not here yet, i feel more alive

while i'm still a long shot from normal on the inside and girls i'm attracted to still seem to sense that i'm insecure, most people can't tell that i suffer from social anxiety and i'm starting to feel a lot better about myself
it was a very slow process and i was already thinking that i wasn't making any progress at all, but one day i woke up and i thought: "damn, i feel pretty good. i've accomplished a lot in the past months", and from then on, things have been going uphill
note: this has been accompanied by therapy, and it would've taken a lot longer without it