archangelmorph
Member
The Sahara (& much of the Australian outback) is going to become a gigantic multi-km-spanning solar array isn't it?
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Solar Could Beat Coal to Become the Cheapest Power on Earth
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Sunny clear skies here today though (Stockport).
We just need to install the panels above the clouds, right?
EchoChamber
Member
But clean coal???
Exactly. A bit of a generalization, but these areas that rely on coal are dumb to believe coal will make a comeback.
even with cloudy weather 80% or so of the sunlight still gets through.
XOMTOR
Member
Nice isn't it? Protectionism at its finest. Here in Canada, four domestic manufacturers complained to the government and of course, being in the pockets of large corporations, they sided with them. The duty rates range from 9% upwards to 281% depending on the import (that 9% one is on a Chinese manufacturer that has set up a plant here in Ontario so they get a bit of a break). The next lowest rate is 50%.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's only a matter of time. Faster, please.
We've got 11.50GW of solar installed already, overall Solar generates about 3% of our total electricity consumption. Which is very impressive considering it was pretty much nothing before 2011.
If your interested this site is great for giving decent estimates on solar power generation:
https://www.solar.sheffield.ac.uk/pvlive/
Truck drivers are totally going to be the new coal miners in ten years. Its collapse as a blue collar profession is going to be timed perfectly with the time when coal's death throes should be sputtering out.
What if we all just agree that the trendy new thing is buying coal art to put in your home. Then they can preserve their lifestyle of suffering endlessly in mine shafts and everyone else gets to have a trendy lump of coal on their mantle.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Minimum income is a nonstarter with a huge swathe of America that views themselves as self reliant
I used Coal plants as an example because it's the industry that's directly effected by the topic in the OP. I still think a major factor in any of these fields to give the people being displaced tangible, reliable belief that your going to ensure that they can transition into the field that is replacing their livelihoods without spending huge portions of their time in collage and can continue to make livable wages while learning.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Well
I dont trust this. Its pretty hard to find places with solar energy
I dont trust this. Its pretty hard to find places with solar energy
RumblingRosco
Member
"Could"?
It will. It is just a matter of when.
It will. It is just a matter of when.
CyclopsRock
Member
I don't honestly understand the argument in favour of coal compared to, say, nuclear. You need some non-solar energy because energy production and demand have to largely meet at the same time. We can't just store a load of energy up in the summer to use in the winter (or even in the day to use at night, in a lot of cases). But why coal? I guess it must be cheaper, because I can't think of any way in which it's better than nuclear.
SwiftDeath
Member
Ironically coal power is just delayed solar power anyways
sans_pants
avec_pénis
People are afraid of nuclear but also it is prohibitively expensive to build new plants
CyclopsRock
Member
But surely it's cheaper over the lifetime of the energy generation? The newest designs are so efficient (and help clean up the "dirt" from the older ones!) that it must make back its money, even if you don't account for the environmental cost of carbon plants.
E-Cat
Member
Sure. But clearly they nor the American people want a sustainable transition, instead choosing to cling onto dying paradigms.
It would be pretty funny if China ends up bringing the world into clean energy while the US becomes the new butt of smog and gas mask jokes.
Out of curiousity, what are the prices you are being quoted? Rough ballpark figure.
I've been quoted ~10k for a 6kW over my home, all inclusive, 20y warranty.
If you can self-consume a decent portion of it, it's already convenient, even before including the fact that i can tax write-off 50% of it.
andythinkpad
Member
You still need a lot of electricity of produce solar panel, which has limited life span. So unless you use nuclear power to generate the electricity, you still produce pollution in the production of the solar panels.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I hate how we can't lead on stuff like Solar. Sucks big time.
Fallout-NL
Member
How limited is the life span of a panel?
All fossil fuels are Delayed Solar.
There's nothing really funny about that. Despite all the bad press over pollution, China has been on the forefront of clean energy development for a long time now. Environmental problems are taken very seriously by the federal government, and since they're not a democracy, the government can simply impose whatever measures they see fit. It's also a big reason why China is expected to vastly increase their nuclear energy capacity in the near future as well.
Most of the solar panel production in the world exists in China, and that's pretty much exactly what they plan to do. And really, anything that cuts down on the number of coal powerplants is a big boon.
There are communities built around coal mines, and if the mines are shut down, these communities are dead. That's why coal tends to be a bigger deal in democratic countries.
It's easier to believe (even if misguided) that someone can save what you already have then it is to believe that the government is going to push feasible transition solutions that won't require a collage degree.
You have to come to them with the a solid, easily communicated plan in motion at the very least, not pie in the sky maybes and what ifs when they have families to support.
CyclopsRock
Member
Steady on, Thatcher.
Skellig Gra
Member
Just a joke of course
I've definitely seen a lot of solar panels in my time in the UK and Ireland, seems like wind power would be a better source of power generation for you. Although I've heard those aren't as effective.SwiftDeath
Member
Well yeah of course, just thought how funny iit is to see the more roundabout way of getting of energy still being potentially cheaper in 2017
Solar has become cheaper than most sources of coal as of this year. However, it is not the cheapest energy source. Natural gas still reigns as cheapest, with hydroelectric and wind (not so) close behind.
http://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/assumptions/pdf/table_8.2.pdf
Coal has been a pretty shit source of energy for a while, it's just becoming more and more apparent every year. Solar and wind are going to continue to drop (though not at the rate they were), and coal is going to become more and more expensive.
Sure, but they have to meet half way. Voting for Trump is not meeting half way, though as far as job security goes, I can at least understand why they did so. They need to be transitioning yesterday, and the longer they put off the inevitable, the harder it is going to be.
Solar and wind aren't the ones stealing the jobs anyhow, they just get the blame. The guys who are really killing coal are the natural gas industry.
http://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/assumptions/pdf/table_8.2.pdf
Coal has been a pretty shit source of energy for a while, it's just becoming more and more apparent every year. Solar and wind are going to continue to drop (though not at the rate they were), and coal is going to become more and more expensive.
Sure, but they have to meet half way. Voting for Trump is not meeting half way, though as far as job security goes, I can at least understand why they did so. They need to be transitioning yesterday, and the longer they put off the inevitable, the harder it is going to be.
Solar and wind aren't the ones stealing the jobs anyhow, they just get the blame. The guys who are really killing coal are the natural gas industry.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And yet this is still better than no solar panels.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Fear and ignorance trumps common sense, we saw that enought last year.
Ideally everyone would be on a renewables/fission mix until we finally get fusion.
Just fuck em over and shut down entire towns leaving generations shattered. Worked for thatcher in the 80's in the UK
E-Cat
Member
What's your point? The net benefit is still positive.
Because clean coal still isn't actually clean. Coal extraction is also not always good for the environment in and of itself.
Nor is it sustainable in the long term. Solar energy technology will always be sustainable and relevant for as long as humans live on a planet with a sun.
Why can't the panels be built with solar power? Like his https://electrek.co/2016/11/04/solarcity-solar-gigafactory-produce-10-gw-tesla-elon-musk/
The problem is that Clean Coal is an oxymoron.
If the things you read said it was good, stop reading them, they're almost certainly bullshit.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Netherlands has same weather and your average house is around a 7 year break even on solar investment
Not with the highly increased precautionary measures of the newer ones.
It doesn't really matter in the long run though, wind and solar energy will be the cheapest hands down, and with the upcoming big battery storage, the future of the energy grid will be much different than we have now. Most people can't image how the world will look like when energy becomes even cheaper.
It's still a problem now, but battery production will get a huge boost in the next few years. Several big companies want to upscale their production big time.Brandson said:
E-Cat
Member
'Clean coal' is an oxymoron. Ultimately, you're still digging up carbon and releasing it into the circulation one way or another. Moreover, as pointed out in the OP, solar is becoming more economically viable. We've coupled the price of energy to the ever-decreasing price of technology, making renewable energies, namely solar and win, *deflationary* to energy prices for the first time! Given that we have to make the transition anyway, why not make it as soon possible?
The_Inquisitor
Member
The future is indeed micro grids.
andythinkpad
Member
My point is your have to include the pollution cost during production and panel life span to give a fair assessment of solar panel's impact to the world.
As an side note I have never understand why roof solar panel is not a dealer option for larger off road SUV. You see people rig solar panel on their RV and make shift camper all the time but nobody has offered an OEM option. I have never read an article to explain why that is.
metareferential
Member
Good, one step closer to our own Dyson-sphere.
Just a joke of course
The UK currently has about 16GW of wind power installed.
There is an insane amount (40GW) of wind turbines planned for the UK.
The Capacity factor for wind is only about 30% though, and there will be times when the amount generated will be so high we'll just have to throw the excess away.
Overall if everything planned right now gets build I reckon we would be getting about 30-40% of or electricity from wind.
If your interested this site maps all renewable power sources in the UK.
http://www.renewables-map.co.uk/renewable energy.asp?Status=1
We do have the largest off-shore wind generation in the world though. In fact, I think we generate more off-shore power than the rest of the world combined.
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