Well, he got death in the end...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...r-who-killed-iraqi-family-hangs-self/5610395/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...r-who-killed-iraqi-family-hangs-self/5610395/
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Soldier serving life sentence for murder of 14-yr old Iraqi girl commits suicide
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Fudgepuppy
Banned
Death penalty is stupid so I agree with this, even if I don't condone or approve of his awful actions.
EDIT. Didn't check the date, sorry.
EDIT. Didn't check the date, sorry.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Guy was clearly mentally ill. I wonder if he was set to receive any treatment.
ComputerMKII
Banned
At least he will have done one good thing in his life.
Sorry, didn't think it was noteworthy enough but still wanted to sorta post the conclusion to the thing. Thanks for splitting it though!
Kinky John
Member
I don't understand why some people think everyone deserves life. Some people are beyond redemption and should be put down like Old Yeller. It's not about justice or revenge, merely logical.
If someone has no use to society and has proven a lack of respect for other peoples well being, that person should be removed like the cancer they are.
If someone has no use to society and has proven a lack of respect for other peoples well being, that person should be removed like the cancer they are.
victreeb3l
Member
Thats a shame. He should have spent the rest of his life in prison being tortured by his thoughts.
No worries, it's always a judgement call. I'm actually impressed you found the original thread, that's some serious search-fu right there.
doctorblurg
Banned
Serves the bastard right. Good riddance.
Except having the death penalty means there's a chance an innocent will be wrongly killed, this plus it isn't a deterrent means it isn't worth having.
I think it's less about this, and more about who actually has the right judge whether someone "deserves life".
The justice system gets it wrong on occasion and there have been cases where innocent people have been put to death. No innocent person should be put to death no matter how many times the system gets it right.
In crimes which actually warrant a death sentence there's a lot of emotion involved and it's easy to have that cloud our collective judgement.
Anyway I'm not unhappy about this news.
Monocle
Member
Might make sense if people had infallible judgment. I don't trust authorities not to succumb to error or corruption and misuse their power to condemn others to death. Is it too vague to cite history as the reason? I mean, the entire history of human civilization?
Well:
But if the argument is logic, then logic indicates that the system is not flawless. It will fail, and you will kill people who don't deserve to die. It is about some innocents deserving not to die unjustly, not to be punished because they are a certain race or ethnicity (which death sentences tend to target more), and not to make killers of the officials you elect to uphold the law. It is about the death penalty not being the deterrent it is supposed to be for this sort of inhumane crimes. If we are using logic, then let's think of another way.
When US soldiers act little better than barbarians it destroys any moral superiority the country may have had. And I say that as an American.
If a person serving in the army of a foreign country raped and killed a 14 year old blonde white American girl, lots of Americans would despise that country and its people too. Heck you'd have people calling for invasion.
If a person serving in the army of a foreign country raped and killed a 14 year old blonde white American girl, lots of Americans would despise that country and its people too. Heck you'd have people calling for invasion.
Wondering how many nutjobs like this one are in the army.
Dude Abides
Banned
This sentiment has nothing to do with logic.
With the same logic, disabled people have been killed troughout history.
Army? alot
ThLunarian
Member
Maybe a little off topic, but I've never understood why there are separate justice systems for military and non-military. To me it seems to only create problems. For the other guys who participated in this to potentially be set free in 2015 seems wrong, considering what they did.
There was a This American Life about a soldier who wanted to kill someone. Apparently, the desire to kill is pretty common in the military and a reason a lot of people want to join.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Doesn't matter. They're all disgraced soldiers that have been dishonorably discharged from the service. It will follow them till the day they die and there is no way they are going to get a job, especially that all of their names are on Wikipedia.
Even if they change their names, the dishonorable discharge is attached to their SSN so they're going to live off of the system and die poor and alone.
Some of the disgraced soldiers that are let out of Leavenworth end up taking their own lives anyway because they realize their life is not worth living for.
Honest question: do discharged soldiers can join a "security company" like Blackwater?
Epsilon-delta
Banned
I can tell you that reason is bullshit. Most join so they can use the Post 9/11 Bill for free education after they leave the military, so they don't end up owing 300k in student loan debt like yourself.
Our bloodlust has not been satiated! Electrocute the body!
It was more about the military training, the purpose of which is to remove the reluctance to kill that society has taught them up to that point.
It was more about the military training, the purpose of which is to remove the reluctance to kill that society has taught them up to that point.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
I don't think so because Blackwater, like any other company, likes money and the hiring of disgraced soldiers is too much of a risk to their bottom line.
Not only that these soldiers were infantry. To my knowledge, Blackwater only hires prior military that were special forces/special ops at the top of their game.
ThLunarian
Member
Is this outcome true for ALL dishonorable discharges? Because while it seems just in this case due to the nature of the discharge, I'd bet it could be overly harsh for other situations. Again, the separation between civilian and military justice systems rubs me the wrong way.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Yes because the military doesn't slap dishonorable discharges for nothing. If a military member gets a dishonorable discharge, you can say in high confidence that they 99.99% deserved it.
Edit: There are five types of military discharges:
Honorable
General
Other than Honorable
Bad Conduct
Dishonorable
For a person to earn a dishonorable discharge, the military considered their actions to be reprehensible.
Do you really believe that happens? That just because criminals are left alone with brick walls and thoughts that they automatically realize the error of their ways and change.
Reality is that doesn't happen. He would have spent all of his time worrying about his three other buddies that got out easier then him because they were charged through the military and how he is a victim.
Finn of Ooo
Member
And nothing of value was lost.
Being tortured by your thoughts =/= rehabilitation
And it clearly happened here because the fucker killed himself.
Yea but what was he thinking about? Was he remourseful for his actions and couldn't live with the horrors he committed? Or was he just acting in self interest and avoiding living a long life in prison as a sex offender who will be the target of other prisoners?
Even if they managed to stop him from committing suicide it seemed very apparent that he was more focused on the punishment everyone else got and not the actions that sent him there. He raped and killed a girl and killed her family. The fact that he pines for probation like his buddies is sick.
Hari Seldon
Member
What type of discharge is failing a wiz quiz? I remember when I was in, it seemed like my company would lose 1-2 people a month because of this haha.
Cizeta-Moroder
Banned
Because that's a very fine and subjective line to draw. That principle could be horribly abused.
Let's just make up definitions of "beyond redemption" on the fly and execute everyone we disagree with. That's basically how all violence and wars are born.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
More to the point, the first three are adjudged administratively, while the latter two are punitive and thus may only be imposed at a court-martial. But they're not really a sliding scale: a bad conduct discharge and a dishonorable discharge are (essentially) the same thing and trigger the same follow-on effects in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, such as automatic rank reduction for enlisted personnel, separation from the service, automatic forfeitures of pay and allowances, and loss of veterans' benefits.
To put it this way, when I argued for sentences, it was always the confinement piece that "mattered" more-- any discharge (bad conduct or dishonorable) was fine.
I'm mostly shocked that the guy was prosecuted under MEJA.
Also, re: urinalysis? It's generally mandatory discharge processing with a general characterization, but depending on the drug/circumstances, maybe it'd lead to a court-martial. Would be surprised if a court-martial panel adjudged a punitive discharge for drug use though. Dealing's another story.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Most likely a general discharge but let's be honest, if it's not honorable, then you're SOL when it comes to getting 100% of VA benefits.
shinobi602
Member
Good riddance you piece of shit.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Good.
To me, that's really the only important element to take from this story.
So, it seems that his partners, whom allegedly also committed war crimes, were allowed to face a -clearly- more benign type of trial (military) and thus minor sentences.
I see a parallel with how the Catholic church handled (for decades) all the pedophilia accusations of their leaders in my country: Preventing civil trials, processes obscured to the public, minor punishments and silently letting them go to "retire" when the press no longer cared (if ever).
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