BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
More proof that Knuckles is black.
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Sonic Mania |OT| Dreams Come True
- Thread starter Hot Coldman
- Start date
IIRC Only Sonic has the true boss
I need to get back to this, but those bosses really spoil it for me.
Anyone else drop this game because they didn't enjoy the bosses? They really burned through my lives, and my gf stopped playing because she hated that there were bosses on /every/ stage. I think I'm probably at Metallic Madness or the one after, but I only have 3 lives so I ended up starting a new save to build up some lives, then lost my momentum with it.
Anyone else drop this game because they didn't enjoy the bosses? They really burned through my lives, and my gf stopped playing because she hated that there were bosses on /every/ stage. I think I'm probably at Metallic Madness or the one after, but I only have 3 lives so I ended up starting a new save to build up some lives, then lost my momentum with it.
I enjoyed the bosses, they felt really original compared to the ones in the Classic games. They're not that hard too, with the
Oil
Bosses in every stage has been a thing since the classic games, is something that you can't just change it if you're making a classic game.
I would say it's less about the bosses and more about the fact that you quickly run out of lives and have to start the entire zone all over again if you get a Game Over. Given how long each act is on its own, they could at least let you start from Act 2.
... I guess act length is the real culprit. When you get a game over in Mega Man because you ran out of lives against a robot master, you lose your mid-stage save point and have to start from the beginning, true, but an entire Mega Man stage is shorter than a single act in Sonic Mania. Not only that, but you can always choose another stage if you're too frustrated and get back to it later. Imagine a Mega Man game where you have to go through 2 or 3 whole stages to get back to boss after a game over, and you can't choose another level until you clear it. That would be maddening.
With that said, the Oil Zone boss can go to hell. Any area/boss where you can't pick up your lost rings easily is a nightmare.
I completed the game with 35 lives on my first try. The game isnt going to hand itself to you on a silver platter. You have to build skills and get better at playing the game to beat it.
Brian_FETO
Banned
Nah, I've been taking my time with it too (also the game is really hard with Knuckles at times, lol)
Had to replay
Oil Ocean
I don't really have any reservations in calling this the best 2D Sonic. Absolutely oozing with love and creativity
Outside of some of the boss encounters being a little poorly communicated, I still think they're some of the best in the series (not like Sonic bosses were really terrific in the first place)
I'm by no means a gamer extraordinaire/speedrunner, but I know my way around classic platformers. That's why I mentioned Mega Man. Hardly the easiest platformers around, yet I love them and have completed them (except the shitty ones like MM6 and 7 YEAH I WENT THERE). And I would have completed Sonic Mania with a much higher number of lives weren't it for a couple major roadblocks.
Besides, you're not addressing my point: level length. Sonic levels can be completed fairly quickly if you know them well enough, but until that point they can take a while, not to mention the fact that branching paths make memorization more complicated. I do believe there is an ideal length, or length-to-difficulty ratio, for platformers. For instance, Kirby is very easy and straightforward, so the game can afford to feature fairly long levels with secrets peppered throughout without becoming a frustrating chore. And, while I haven't played Super Meat Boy and personally don't care for its philosophy, I understand the extreme challenged is counterbalanced with very frequent save points.
But Sonic Mania levels (and, even though I love the games, DKC levels) tend to be a bit too long relative to their difficulty. Not all games have to be easy, hard or average, mind you, but they all have to be fair and not frustrating. Sonic Mania feels frustrating at times. At least it does to me, maybe because I'm not used to some of the quirks of the 2D Sonic school of game design. Some of those quirks feel less like quirks and more like design flaws, but I wouldn't mind them too much if the game was a bit more liberal with save points or showed more restraint with level length.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I think they're easily one of the best highlights of the game.
Poltergust
Member
The Oil Ocean bosses are funny. Act 1's is so pathetically easy that you can defeat it before it even gets an attack off. Act 2's, on the other hand, is probably the hardest boss in the game.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
I'm 100% sure I would've figured both of these out as a kid.
What's happened to me!?
Thanks guys
i bought it yesterday and i've been mostly enjoying myself. however... i'm at oil ocean zone and i seem to have hit a wall with the last few levels. i've literally only come across one extra life power up throughout my entire playthrough so far and as a relative newcomer to 2d sonic i'm pretty poor at keeping hold of my rings (made worse by how i keep managing to acrue 90+ just before stumbling into the boss arena and then losing them all). subsequently i've been barely scraping myself through and seeing quite a few game over screens.
flying battery zone can fuck right off in particular. easily my least favourite zone so far and one that i had to restart over quite a few times even after reaching the act 2 boss repeatedly. least fun level gimmicks (the monkey bars aren't particularly exciting), the wind/rain gimmick combined with the electricity coil hazards that after destroying will ping sonic off to who-knows-where combined with bottomless pits had me raging and that shitty
boss (that i swear has a super iffy hitbox) to cap it all off. maybe it was because i was getting sick of repeating the level but it had my least favourite music from the game so far too.
other things that are getting a little bit annoying:
dying instantly from being 'crushed' by a gap becoming one pixel to small, something that inexplicably even happened in the first act of mirage saloon zone when
the labrynthine level design (which has been for the most part really good so far) does mean that it's hard for the player to be introduced to certain hazards in a controlled environment at times, resulting in getting hits from things that i wasn't sure would hurt me or act like they did
and to add to that, there have been some annoyingly unavoidable hazards here and there too. oil ocean zone's act 1 boss is super easy and basic but if you get caught by the green pipes bursting up you'll hit spikes on the ceiling that'll kill you instantly - even though you couldn't see them when entering the room and can't see them during the fight to know which green pipes will lead to death
even when some boss's solutions become really obvious, to actually execute the answer can be overly fiddly or luck based, such as the aforementioned fbz act 2 boss or the stardust speedway zone act 2 boss's 2nd phase (
)
also i happened to suffer a little soft lock after the chemical plant act 2 boss (the
one) which self corrected after a a few minutes and sonic kinda got spurted out from the screen. kinda weird
but still, i've been powering through because despite those issues i'm having with it there's still a lot of fun to be had.
so is there any tips that anyone can give me to be less shit and to save me from repeatedly seeing the game over screen? it feels like i'm stuck in a loop where i perpetually only have a few lives and can't manage to gather any more meaning i'll lose them all to a boss and have to start over with a few lives again only to do it again. and then if i make it through to the next zone it's almost worth game over-ing sooner rather than later because that'll mean i'll have 3 lives instead of 1 or 2
flying battery zone can fuck right off in particular. easily my least favourite zone so far and one that i had to restart over quite a few times even after reaching the act 2 boss repeatedly. least fun level gimmicks (the monkey bars aren't particularly exciting), the wind/rain gimmick combined with the electricity coil hazards that after destroying will ping sonic off to who-knows-where combined with bottomless pits had me raging and that shitty
spider
other things that are getting a little bit annoying:
dying instantly from being 'crushed' by a gap becoming one pixel to small, something that inexplicably even happened in the first act of mirage saloon zone when
tails's plane started flying alongside eggman's train??
the labrynthine level design (which has been for the most part really good so far) does mean that it's hard for the player to be introduced to certain hazards in a controlled environment at times, resulting in getting hits from things that i wasn't sure would hurt me or act like they did
and to add to that, there have been some annoyingly unavoidable hazards here and there too. oil ocean zone's act 1 boss is super easy and basic but if you get caught by the green pipes bursting up you'll hit spikes on the ceiling that'll kill you instantly - even though you couldn't see them when entering the room and can't see them during the fight to know which green pipes will lead to death
even when some boss's solutions become really obvious, to actually execute the answer can be overly fiddly or luck based, such as the aforementioned fbz act 2 boss or the stardust speedway zone act 2 boss's 2nd phase (
the part where metal sonic keeps spawning in the 'silver sonics' and you have to knock them into him
also i happened to suffer a little soft lock after the chemical plant act 2 boss (the
mean bean machine
but still, i've been powering through because despite those issues i'm having with it there's still a lot of fun to be had.
so is there any tips that anyone can give me to be less shit and to save me from repeatedly seeing the game over screen? it feels like i'm stuck in a loop where i perpetually only have a few lives and can't manage to gather any more meaning i'll lose them all to a boss and have to start over with a few lives again only to do it again. and then if i make it through to the next zone it's almost worth game over-ing sooner rather than later because that'll mean i'll have 3 lives instead of 1 or 2
StarCreator
Member
Had to look up a solution to the 4 blue spheres map last night: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs-oCv3B8Ys
But, on second thought... this solution might be overthinking it. Can you just do the whole thing just doing an immediate 180 and running the whole thing that way?
.... nevermind, that still wouldn't be a perfect clear since it starts with rings after the first jump...
But, on second thought... this solution might be overthinking it. Can you just do the whole thing just doing an immediate 180 and running the whole thing that way?
.... nevermind, that still wouldn't be a perfect clear since it starts with rings after the first jump...
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
On 1-ups and rings in particular:
I feel that if you've literally "only seen one extra life power-up" and are over halfway through the game, then you're not looking around enough for them in the first place.
If you have the blue ring item while you're carrying over 100 rings, then you can recollect all of your rings after getting hit for an easy 1-up.
If at any point you're lucky enough to be holding at least 300 rings, then you should intentionally take a hit and recollect your rings. (You don't get a 1-up at 400 rings.)
If you have 100 rings but don't have a blue ring item, you can intentionally take a hit to recollect up to 20 of those rings, which puts you at 20% progress for your next 1-up. (Obviously, this is wise to do when you have exactly 100 rings, but there's no point in trying it once you have 120 rings.)
Misc:
Elemental shields (fire, lighting, water) also reflect most energy-based projectiles that enemies shoot at you. They're really valuable because you can stop worrying about having to dodge certain attacks when you have them.
Most bosses heavily telegraph everything that they do, especially the Oil Ocean boss. Stop panicking, focus on evasion instead of offense until you have a grip on his attack patterns, then start taking your shots.
The 10-minute time limit is ridiculous. I'd love to explore a bit more and take my time, but the game won't let me because "gotta go fast". Before anyone says it: no, 10 minutes isn't "more than enough". And even if it was, the mere fact there's a limit makes you want to skip ahead for fear of getting a time over. In fact, the timer should only exist for time attack mode and speedruns but have no limit. And there's gonna be a limit at all, why not make it count down instead of up in the first place? If you don't know there's a time limit, you might not even realize it in time. Just another one of those obvious design flaws that shouldn't have existed back in the 90s, let alone in 2017. It's not hard, just do it like Mario games do.
Davey Cakes
Member
I haven't beaten it either. Only play a little bit ever few days. I just got to Metallic Madness as Sonic+Tails and I only have two silver coins and two Chaos Emeralds.
Man me too. The only time I've ever even game over'ed was with knuckles and his shitty jump height.
Every 2D Mario (outside of 2 and Yoshi's Island if that counts), 3D Land and World have time limits.
The time limit ties to score and it encourages speed and getting good at the level. Why ditch it?
"Do it like Mario" isn't always the answer. The time limit is simply based on arcade games, it wants to push you forward and not always stoping to explore, it also adds to replayability (you will never be able to explore the whole stage, the level design doesn't let you). Just because it's 2017 it doesn't mean arcade games are over.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
You're grinding this axe way too hard.
The poster I quoted said he only saw one 1-up throughout the first 75% of the game. You don't even have to explore to find more than that; you just have to be observant.
I'm bored at work, what can I say
(I still stand by the idea that the game could use more leniency with the timer, or at least make it count down so you don't find yourself befuddled once you suddenly die without warning. I do agree that the poster should have seen more than 1-up, but if I'm honest I didn't see that many of them either.)
(I still stand by the idea that the game could use more leniency with the timer, or at least make it count down so you don't find yourself befuddled once you suddenly die without warning. I do agree that the poster should have seen more than 1-up, but if I'm honest I didn't see that many of them either.)
StarCreator
Member
I'm bored at work, what can I say
(I still stand by the idea that the game could use more leniency with the timer, or at least make it count down so you don't find yourself befuddled once you suddenly die without warning. I do agree that the poster should have seen more than 1-up, but if I'm honest I didn't see that many of them either.)
Sonic 3 would turn the timer red and/or flashing when you hit the 9 minute mark. I'm honestly surprised Mania doesn't do the same given it uses the same time limit.
Sonic Mania does the same at the 9 mins mark.
StarCreator
Member
On which version? It definitely does not do it on PS4.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Not on Switch.
It's ridiculous that before the game's release there were lots of Sonic fans telling people how Sonic is not just a game about going fast, and that it's about exploration since the levels are so big.
Now that Mania is out, with some absolutely massive levels that have a ton to be explored (Green Hill Zone is one of my favorite zones due to how densely packed it is) now these same fans are saying that Sonic is "not like Mario" where you can take your time and explore the levels; that you're supposed to play through them quickly.
I would say that Mario games are far more linear and less about exploration than Sonic is.
Now I haven't really played much of Sonic 3/K - in fact I never did finish the game I started before Mania was released - but the levels in Mania seem even larger than those.
For the size and complexity of the levels, compared to what was in games like Sonic 1 & 2, 10 minutes seems too short.
A 15 minute timer might be more suited to the size of the levels in Mania - at least the earlier levels. The later levels felt a lot smaller to me since they were more sparse and more "on rails" rather than focusing on platforming as much.
I get that the point of Mania was to be a throwback to the older 2D games, but things like the 10 minute timer and starting you back at the beginning of Act 1 with only 3 lives when you continue feel out of place for a new game.
Even though I never had a Genesis and haven't played much Sonic outside of Sonic CD on the PC 20 years ago, I haven't personally run into too many issues as a result of this. I came close to having to continue when doing the Oil Ocean Zone boss as Knuckles, but I was getting through most of the game with at least 10-15 lives in reserve.
I have a couple of friends that completely gave up on the game after two specific bosses
due to them repeatedly getting there with only one or two lives and then being sent back to Act 1 after dying.
It could be a lot friendlier to new players to get them on board with Sonic. The game doesn't do anything to teach people how to play, and doesn't tell you about mechanics like the timer at all.
The current system feels like it should be a "classic mode" that you unlock for beating the game rather than the default.
Now that Mania is out, with some absolutely massive levels that have a ton to be explored (Green Hill Zone is one of my favorite zones due to how densely packed it is) now these same fans are saying that Sonic is "not like Mario" where you can take your time and explore the levels; that you're supposed to play through them quickly.
I would say that Mario games are far more linear and less about exploration than Sonic is.
Now I haven't really played much of Sonic 3/K - in fact I never did finish the game I started before Mania was released - but the levels in Mania seem even larger than those.
For the size and complexity of the levels, compared to what was in games like Sonic 1 & 2, 10 minutes seems too short.
A 15 minute timer might be more suited to the size of the levels in Mania - at least the earlier levels. The later levels felt a lot smaller to me since they were more sparse and more "on rails" rather than focusing on platforming as much.
I get that the point of Mania was to be a throwback to the older 2D games, but things like the 10 minute timer and starting you back at the beginning of Act 1 with only 3 lives when you continue feel out of place for a new game.
Even though I never had a Genesis and haven't played much Sonic outside of Sonic CD on the PC 20 years ago, I haven't personally run into too many issues as a result of this. I came close to having to continue when doing the Oil Ocean Zone boss as Knuckles, but I was getting through most of the game with at least 10-15 lives in reserve.
I have a couple of friends that completely gave up on the game after two specific bosses
Metal Sonic and Oil Ocean Zone
It could be a lot friendlier to new players to get them on board with Sonic. The game doesn't do anything to teach people how to play, and doesn't tell you about mechanics like the timer at all.
The current system feels like it should be a "classic mode" that you unlock for beating the game rather than the default.
OrbitalBeard
Member
2D Mario games have much stricter time limits than Sonic titles.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
You know, I'm not at all opposed to extending the time limit, or including an attract mode that actually demonstrates each characters' special abilities, or including a digital manual that isn't dependent on a web browser.
But the idea that players are entitled to progress without actually improving themselves is a non-starter. If lives are in the game, then they should actually mean something.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Wily Tower in all Mega Man games except 7 and 8?
I wonder how much time till a "Sonic Mania is the Dark Souls of platformers". I would never imagined the time limit or repeating an act was such a big issue (you guys have no idea how many times I repeated Sonic 2 as a kid because I kept dying at the Death Egg Robo lol).
Also
Saying Sonic is about going fast is as wrong as saying is about exploration. There's a place in between both where Sonic tries to stand IMO.
Also
Saying Sonic is about going fast is as wrong as saying is about exploration. There's a place in between both where Sonic tries to stand IMO.
Just confirmed to be sure, it does on the PC version.
Hmm, I would describe 2D Sonic games as fast paced time attack based platformers that have great replay value due to different paths a player can take.
They're not meant for players to slowly explore every corner of the map, but for players to experiment and discover faster routes as they replay the stages to get faster times.
The different routes are there for replay value, that's the way I see it.
funnily enough not long after i posted that i managed to get through oil ocean by taking things a bit slower and trying different routes, and for the act 2 boss i saw a tip that noted to stay under the platforms that paid dividends (took the boss out during it's second attack wave).
the next few levels went a hell of a lot better - i actually discovered a few 1-ups and managed to gain enough lives to last me till the very end (although barely - i was on my last life and last ring when i finished off the final boss). the lava reef levels were surprisingly great although i wasn't a huge fan of titanic monarch - i didn't quite get a grip of all of the gimmicks/mechanics in the level (i could never quite time swinging off poles right and was a bit miffed to find sonic lets go automatically after a few spins) and found myself running out of time in the first act repeatedly (thank fuck the final boss in the second act resets the timer otherwise i would have had the same problem).
now that i've finished my first run through my favourite zones were probably chemical plant, press garden, the second act of mirage, lava reef and the second act of metallic madness (i really enjoyed the boss in particular here).
as for the bosses in general i though they were a bit hit and miss - but i'm gonna have to run through the game again to get a better feel for some of them (i scummed some of the later bosses after getting frustrated by abusing sonic's temporary damage invulnerability). some were needlessly frustrating or awkward to fight, some were way too basic and easy, but there were some gems here and there.
I could understand people mad at losing progress in no-save mode (it even has limited continues) but the mania save system is pretty fair like sonic 3 (and it has infinite continues no?), learn from your mistakes and try the acts again, people dont have a problem losing a hour of progress in dark souls but 10, 20 mins in sonic then its bad design, I only concede if its in
about the time limit because these acts are too long...
Titanic Monarch
Once you get the hang of TMZ though, you can clear them in 3-5 minutes. Which makes sense in a skill based game.
Yeah but unfortunately people arent going to play this game more than once and its strange when you see the lenght of other stages.
I... You got me there, you damn green dinosaur.
Although, it's been a while since I last played a Mega Man game. I know there are no passwords to skip the Wily stages, but do you actually have to start all over from Wily Stage 1 if you continue after a game over? Also, at least by that point you have all the robot master weapons, which makes levels and especially bosses easier.
I think it's far more rare for a person to complete a Sonic game once, compared to people who replay it multiple times or don't finish it ever.
Yup. This is why "it's about going fast" and "it's about exploration" are not contradictions. You are meant to go fast and you are meant to explore to find different routes - you're just not supposed to see everything on a single run of the level! You take one route the first time you play, then next time you try to take a different one. However, the game is still designed to keep you moving forward. You're not supposed to backtrack through a Sonic level.
Yeah, classic Sonic games hail from an era when a kid would get one game and play it over and over for months because that's just what they had. It is not a game made for the 50-game-Steam-backlog era. You are meant to play it several times.
Xalechim01
Neo Member
I knew I sucked at Sonic games, but Titanic Monarch is really killing Sonic Mania for me. I get to the boss fight and consistently keep dying until I have to go all the way back to Act 1. I'm at the point now where I really just hate the level and it's a chore to get back to the Boss only to be defeated so quickly.
I think I'll just start up a new file and go play all the other levels again, maybe that's just what I need.
I think I'll just start up a new file and go play all the other levels again, maybe that's just what I need.
From the perspective of a long time fan, particularly of 3&K:
Wherever you are, keep pushing forward.
You have time to check suspicious walls and objects for hidden items, and poke at the boundaries of your current path to see if there's a less obvious branch path tucked away, none of which should really take you more than ten seconds to accomplish.
You do not generally have time (if even the ability) to thoroughly explore multiple different, parallel paths in a single playthrough.
The series is great for exploration in the sense that there's a lot of the former to discover, but you aren't going to or expected to plumb all of its depths in a single run.
Azure Dream
Member
TM2 is kind of a drag. As for the boss fight, just obsessively keep chasing down a ring or two you drop, and make sure you're not hit near the edge of the screen, so they don't go bouncing off. You can kind of tank it that way, if you have to. Just always focus on keeping that ring around as your safety net.
Alternatively, if it's Sonic & Tails mode, get a friend or someone to pick up the second controller and smash Eggman's face in with your invincible buddy, while you focus on keeping Sonic safe.
Only if you're Sonic or Sonic w/ Tails following you.
Protips for the boss:
- You don't need to hit the Hardboiled Heavies at all, just focus on avoiding their attacks and keeping your rings.
- Once you hit Eggman enough to break off one of his tentacles, you can easily hit him from that side when he's pulsing electricity. The electricity only goes through the tentacles - he's safe to hit.
- The level has you go through four unique "sections" through a hub area, right? The bottom left section has a thunder shield. If you save that section for last, you can try to carry the thunder shield into the boss - if you pull it off, you're immune to the electric shocks from the tentacles.
- Once you hit Eggman enough to break off one of his tentacles, you can easily hit him from that side when he's pulsing electricity. The electricity only goes through the tentacles - he's safe to hit.
- The level has you go through four unique "sections" through a hub area, right? The bottom left section has a thunder shield. If you save that section for last, you can try to carry the thunder shield into the boss - if you pull it off, you're immune to the electric shocks from the tentacles.
And they give you way less than 10 minutes and in the older titles the timer doesn't represent seconds but some unit less than a second:
"An in-game "second" is approximately 0.6 or 0.7 seconds (in Super Mario Bros., one in-game "second" lasts 0.4 seconds, which is 24 frames in 60Hz NTSC or 20 frames in 50Hz PAL[citation needed], and in New Super Luigi U and in Super Mario Maker, it lasts one second)."
Meaning 276 "seconds" in SMW is 2:45-3:13 instead of 4:36.
i'm running through again and i'm constantly going into the blue sphere bonus stage but i still haven't managed to complete a single one
i really just can't get used to the grid-based 90 degree turn controls. i kind of wish they started easier and then got progressively harder like how the special stages work (regardless of what zone you find them in) instead of being a randomly picked level where i'm struggling with every single one. but then i also understand that they're taken from an earlier title so i'm guessing it works like it used to.
i really just can't get used to the grid-based 90 degree turn controls. i kind of wish they started easier and then got progressively harder like how the special stages work (regardless of what zone you find them in) instead of being a randomly picked level where i'm struggling with every single one. but then i also understand that they're taken from an earlier title so i'm guessing it works like it used to.