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Sonic Team desperately needs to reset continuity

The SA camera pisses people off because they want to rotate it around to see the environment, and it's designed to always point you in the direction you need to move (except for the treasure hunting stages). I've turned a deaf ear to camera complaints in general, though. RE, Ninja Gaiden, DMC, Sonic Adventure and even MGS (to an extent) all had cameras people consistently bitched about, but none of them gave me problems. I guess it's a valid complaint for some, but it's a "cry wolf" affair for me anymore.
 
I didn't think it was that bad after I learned to control it manually it really didn't give me any trouble at all. What did you guys think of the adventure fields as a hub for Sonic, I rather liked those too.
 
Sonic Adventure 2's Sonic & Robot stages were excellent. Most people hate the Tails / Eggman stages because it's "Not Sonic". The stages are leagues above E-102's levels in SA1. They're well done in my opinion.

Knuckles' levels problem is that it'll only tell you where one Emerald shard is at a time, where SA1's would tell you all the nearest shards. Had this been changed [Plus a making the Chao system MUCH less complicated], I think people's outlook on the levels would be MUCH better.

SA2 was a great game. Graphically it was fantastic [Low Poly perhaps, but high resolution textures], and levels like Final Rush and Metal Harbour were a lot of fun.

In Comparison, Sonic Heroes AND Shadow the Hedghog are graphically inferior and don't play NEARLY as well.

sa22qb.jpg


PP_Sonic03.jpg


Canyon05B.jpg


Shadow doesn't even get a real Shadow! Both SH And ShTH were made in Renderware, I don't think Sonic Team ever got the handle on it.

Also Sonic Heroes and ShTH suffered from a severe lack of imagination with robots. Now Eggman just has a whole bunch of Eggpawns, barely any animal-based enemies. And the Sonic Next Gen has even worse "Robots for sake of robots". Where are the animal based ones? :(
 
They need to:

a) Screw the Earthy "real-world" color palettes and go back to bright, vibrant cartoony.
b) Hire back Dreams Come True for the music. Or make Jun Senuoe work with them.
c) Ditch the current engine completely or make it 2.5D, fixed camera.
d) Cut the inane dialogue scenes and come up with a better way to present the story.
e) Cut it to three core heroes (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles) and just Robotnik as enemy (piloting various machines of destruction as bosses).
f) Focus on easy to pickup run-to-the-right, ring-collecting gameplay and mix in rewards for extra exploration.
g) Make Sonic games fun again.

IMO, that new "Sonic the Hedgehog" game doesn't look like it does any of that. Sega's just shitting new ones out without thought.
 
SuperPac said:
<prescription for restoring Sonic snipped>

IMO, that new "Sonic the Hedgehog" game doesn't look like it does any of that. Sega's just shitting new ones out without thought.
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Fuckin' a. I put a lot of time into SADX, but it was for the Game Gear games
dammit they're good
, not because it was fun.

Also, Robotnik is a much better name than Eggman. Goo goo ga joob.
 
SuperPac said:
They need to:

a) Screw the Earthy "real-world" color palettes and go back to bright, vibrant cartoony.
b) Hire back Dreams Come True for the music. Or make Jun Senuoe work with them.
c) Ditch the current engine completely or make it 2.5D, fixed camera.
d) Cut the inane dialogue scenes and come up with a better way to present the story.
e) Cut it to three core heroes (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles) and just Robotnik as enemy (piloting various machines of destruction as bosses).
f) Focus on easy to pickup run-to-the-right, ring-collecting gameplay and mix in rewards for extra exploration.
g) Make Sonic games fun again.

IMO, that new "Sonic the Hedgehog" game doesn't look like it does any of that. Sega's just shitting new ones out without thought.
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So basically you want everything they've evolved from and go back to square one. Hell no. I rather like the adventure games and thought they brought Sonic into 3D perfectly IMO!! I'm sorry but Heroes sucked, badly. I for one want them to progress with the series instead of constantly "going back to their roots"...this isn't 1990 this is 2006.
 
They've never and will never top the awesomeness of Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Ever.

I fucking HATE the world it takes place in now.

Get rid of 80% of the bland characters and go back to Mobius.

Please.

EDIT: Oh, and bring back Dr. Robotnik. Eggman is a really stupid name.
 
Biohazard said:
So basically you want everything they've evolved from and go back to square one. Hell no. I rather like the adventure games and thought they brought Sonic into 3D perfectly IMO!! I'm sorry but Heroes sucked, badly. I for one want them to progress with the series instead of constantly "going back to their roots"...this isn't 1990 this is 2006.
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I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying "rewind to 1990 and don't evolve." I'm saying back up a bit and take a right turn instead of a left. If no one else had made a 3D action-platformer since 1999 I would've agreed that the games are "fine." Unfortunately, many developers have since proven that you can put together a 3D platformer with a decent camera. With the current Sonic I have to struggle with a shit camera system, suffer through half the game using lame-o characters that I *don't* want to play as (I play Sonic for Sonic, and maybe Tails), deal with an ever-growing cast of unimaginative characters and enemies, follow a story that is not only incredibly tired but filled with stupid dialogue and exposition. It's a series based on speed and 'tude, and its edge has been worn dull in the intervening years.

Honestly, if Sonic Team fixed the incredible camera issues and trimmed the excess characters, I'd be perfectly happy. My other wants would just be ice cream on top of the cake.

I <3 Katamari said:
Oh, and bring back Dr. Robotnik. Eggman is a really stupid name.
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But I thought he was always Eggman in the JPN versions of Sonic. No?
 
I <3 Katamari said:
They've never and will never top the awesomeness of Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Ever.

I fucking HATE the world it takes place in now.

Get rid of 80% of the bland characters and go back to Mobius.

Please.

EDIT: Oh, and bring back Dr. Robotnik. Eggman is a really stupid name.
Click to expand...

I remember when Sonic was like that. It had a really out there plot back in the day, but it was simple enough to never get in your way. I am nearing the end of Sonic Rush and I don't understand a single bit of the story.
 
Reilly said:
Sonic CD was and still is the best Sonic game.
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Sonic CD has aged like vinegar (aside from the Japanese version's soundtrack). Sonic 1-3 and Knuckes are all better.
 
Sonic Rush is good. Linear though it may be, it's a hard and stylish 2D treat.
 
I <3 Katamari said:
He is.

But Dr. Robotnik is better.
Click to expand...

I agree. But I'm sure someone at Sonic Team didn't like that name. And his initials could be Y.N. (Has someone ever asked this in an interview -- why the name switched from Robotnik to Eggman? I'd be curious.)
 
Jesus, it's been an hour almost and I've listened to that intro song like nine times. It's so catchy!

Sonic boom, sonic boom, sonic booooooom...!

Which collection is it that has Sonic CD on it?
 
Sonic Gems Collection. "Sonic Boom" is the US Soundtrack too [Which is quite good, The Japanese one is just as good]

Eggman has been retconned into being his 'Nickname'. Professor Gerald Robotnik is his grandfather in Sonic Adventure 2 and Shadow the Hedgehog :)
 
SuperPac said:
I agree. But I'm sure someone at Sonic Team didn't like that name. And his initials could be Y.N. (Has someone ever asked this in an interview -- why the name switched from Robotnik to Eggman? I'd be curious.)
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Probably one of those things where they just wanted to match it up.

Like when we went from Princess Toadstool to Peach (even though I believe her name is Princess Peach Toadstool or something, heh).
 
Rlan said:
Sonic Gems Collection. "Sonic Boom" is the US Soundtrack too [Which is quite good, The Japanese one is just as good]
Click to expand...

I'd say the Japanese soundtrack is superior because it matches the on screen action.
 
WordAssassin said:
Jesus, it's been an hour almost and I've listened to that intro song like nine times. It's so catchy!

Sonic boom, sonic boom, sonic booooooom...!

Which collection is it that has Sonic CD on it?
Click to expand...

I love that track.

The intro is awesome, it shows how awesome sonic is and how awesome his next games should be.

But wont be.
 
You are completely right. The Sonic continuity came to a crushing destruction when Shadow the Hedgehog hit. This shit needs to stop, stat.
 
I tried Sonic CD lately and boy, it hasn't really aged well. It's very slow if you compare it to the Advance and the Rush ones. Heck, even the flash Sonic is faster. Mario has aged like wine, Sonic like old bread.
Then you have the 3D Sonic's. Sonic Heroes was the only one I really liked. It isn't a great game but I had fun with it. Sonic Adventure 2 is a good second, although the Knuckles' sections were shit and I didn't really like the Tails/Eggman sections. Sonic Adventure 1 and Shadow are just bad, very bad.

The only Sonic that is great today is Sonic Rush in my opinion. It's just weird that all the hype went to Shadow and everybody (including the fans) forgot about Rush. It's extremely fast, has great variety, has a fine difficulty and the music... It's pure love. What else can you expect from Hideki Naganuma?
Let's hope that Sonic Team and Dimps make a sequel that has better graphics, works a little bit on the leveldesign and fixes the ranking system. But still, I have played Sonic Rush more than any other DS game yet. Really, it's the only non-Nintendo 2D platformgame that has the potential to rival Mario.
 
Sonic Team is beginning to fall into the "Rare syndrome," in that their games keep getting worse with each release (exception is Sonic Rush), it's almost expected now that each 3D incarnation of Sonic will be worse than the last.
 
The problem is, games like Sonic Rush sell 150k, and games like Sonic Adventures sell 1mil, and Sonic Heros sells 700k.
 
Senretsu said:
Sonic Team is beginning to fall into the "Rare syndrome," in that their games keep getting worse with each release (exception is Sonic Rush), it's almost expected now that each 3D incarnation of Sonic will be worse than the last.
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Make the difference between Sonic Team and Sonic Team USA please.
 
Senretsu said:
Sonic Team is beginning to fall into the "Rare syndrome," in that their games keep getting worse with each release (exception is Sonic Rush), it's almost expected now that each 3D incarnation of Sonic will be worse than the last.
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No way! Firstly, they don't take 5 years to churn out their mediocre games. Secondly, even Shadow the Hedgehog is better than Grabbed by the Ghoulies. The 3D Sonic games have some good to them, they are just heavily flawed (to varying degrees).
 
Sonic CD = overrated

The best Sonic game is Sonic the Hedgehog for the Mega Drive, and then Sonic 2. 3D Sonic games keep on getting worse and worse (even when getting EVEN worse seems like an impossible task). Sonic Adventure didn't seem so friggin bad to me either. I mean, it was far from great but it still had some of that Sonic charisma and feel to it, which was nowhere to be found in SA2. But that's just my opinion
 
Yeah, the lack of sales for Sonic Rush trouble me greatly as well. This is the game that should have had the massive advertising and word-of-mouth(well, it had a little of this, but...)

The fact that Shadow outsold it so much is a crying shame. They finally give the fans what so many have cried for for so many years(a GREAT 2D Sonic), and nobody even bothers to play it.

Well, I guess Sonic Team can laugh and say "Told you so" now. :/
 
I also think they should scrap their previous concepts and start from scratch for the next incarnations of the franchise. And what about writing a decent storyline? I'm sure that'd help a lot, too.

I also agree what somebody said before, it'd be really good if they just forgot about many of the series' characters and center the storyline and game on Sonic alone.

But then again, sadly, none of these will happen.
 
The 3D titles would probably be a lot better if ST would spend more than 8 months on their development and stop cutting corners. Using ultra-buggy Renderware on Heroes, then spending less than a year on Shadow which was barely improved doesn't really help make the franchise shine in many people's eyes. They really need to set that stuff down an tweak it.

I don't really understand why people say that having less characters would be beneficial to the series, though. It's still largely "Sonic vs. Eggman" and the extra people are there to fill out the world or provide extra entertainment from those who like stories in their games or tire of looking at Sonic's ass for ten hours. Plus they can all run and jump, so if the next game has a singular gameplay focus again they can just be used as body swaps

Get rid of 80% of the bland characters and go back to Mobius.
Click to expand...

Sonic's always taken place on earth. Mobius is just an invention of SOA so that they could put something in the manual introduction
 
Duckula said:
Why does Sonic Rush get so much praise? It's a game with terrible design and bland environments and enemies.
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But the only decent Sonic game in years. :(
 
Sonic Rush is damn good. It's fun in the way that Sonic will always be fun when done right: running through an obstacle course with style is awesome.
 
BocoDragon said:
Sonic Rush is damn good. It's fun in the way that Sonic will always be fun when done right: running through an obstacle course with style is awesome.
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Sonic games should not be racing games. Sonic Rush was a step up design wise from the Advance games so the game turned out decent, but it still got nowhere near the platforming goodness that was Sonic 2 or the other pre-3D Sonic titles for that matter. Dimps needs to stop being lazy and inserting bottomless pits whenever they want to finish a level. Sonic Rush has it's flaws even if it was decent, so I'm hoping they do a better job with Sonic Rush 2.
 
jj984jj said:
Sonic games should not be racing games. Sonic Rush was a step up design wise from the Advance games so the game turned out decent, but it still got nowhere near the platforming goodness that was Sonic 2 or the other pre-3D Sonic titles for that matter. Dimps needs to stop being lazy and inserting bottomless pits whenever they want to finish a level. Sonic Rush has it's flaws even if it was decent, so I'm hoping they do a better job with Sonic Rush 2.
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I wouldn't call Sonic 2 platforming goodness either. Speed + Platforming never appealed to me, and so I found the platforming bits to be sloppy and distracting. I preferred the fact that Sonic Rush focused more on finishing a Zone with style and at full speed, imo, that's where the real fun lies, in the speed, so of course I found Sonic Rush to be a much better game in that respect.
 
Shadow isn't bad as a character. His game just wasn't that good. I'll probably get toasted for saying this, but I kinda like him better than sonic. He has the better story. I do think that the cast should consist of Sonic, Shadow, Tails, Knuckles, and Robotnik. Shadow being a wildcard in depending on events in the Story.

Next gen, he should have a game that plays like Contra, with Gun tactics that are flashy like those in DMC3. Raindance coming off of a ramp would be sweet.

As for the next Sonic, I like how they appear to be taking it old school. It just needs to look sonic is running extremely fast. Criterion like fast.
 
Oldschoolgamer said:
Shadow isn't bad as a character. His game just wasn't that good. I'll probably get toasted for saying this, but I kinda like him better than sonic. He has the better story. I do think that the cast should consist of Sonic, Shadow, Tails, Knuckles, and Robotnik. Shadow being a wildcard in depending on events in the Story.

Next gen, he should have a game that plays like Contra, with Gun tactics that are flashy like those in DMC3. Raindance coming off of a ramp would be sweet.

As for the next Sonic, I like how they appear to be taking it old school. It just needs to look sonic is running extremely fast. Criterion like fast.
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Stories in platormers suck. Who cares if Shadow has a better story than Sonic when stories in platformers suck
 
Sonic rush was still kind of a mess, had the same sloppy hold right and win gameplay that the GBA games contained with the added confusion of having the action occur on 2 screens at once. The boss design was neat if not a tiny bit unfair in some ways.

Sonic Adventure 1 was a good game. Playing it as sonic and tails was pretty fun and the rest of the cast only had 5-6 levels instead of 10 so it was more a diversion then anything. I finished the whole game off and beat CHAOS with supersonic.

Sonic adventure 2 though... was a buggy shitpile of a game, between the level collision detection being off in a bad way and the camera NEVER giving you a proper view of the action I was almost constantly frustrated playing it. The robotnik/tails stages were boring shooters filled with too many of the aformentioned cheap deaths and the sonic/shadow levels were both for the most part poorly designed and littered with the same bugs and camera issues. The rouge/knuckles stages were even less fun then the allready boring find the emerald shard stages in the first game. Oddly there were less bugs present in these stages but they still sucked.

I never bothered with sonic heroes,aside from a demo , it looked like it had better level design but it was filled with poor gameplay thanks to having 3 characters constantly slowing down the actino by switching. I've heard the boss encounters were all really boring to.

I played shadow breifly at EB the other day and it was like the worst aspects of sonic adventure 2 but now with a shitty gun toting gimmick in place. The saddest fact is that this shit actually sells.
 
Knuckles was supposed to be the wildcard. Why piss away his story and character just to make room for a Sonic clone? Shadow is a waste, get rid of him. Sonic and Tails as heroes, Knuckles as the wild card, Eggman as the bad guy.

But who really gives a shit about all that anyway? GOOD LEVELS, GOOD GAMEPLAY. That's what needs to be fixed.


BTW, I think the last part of Speed Highway (Sonic Adventure 1) is what next-gen Sonic should be like. Only more awesome.
 
Magicpaint said:
I wouldn't call Sonic 2 platforming goodness either. Speed + Platforming never appealed to me, and so I found the platforming bits to be sloppy and distracting. I preferred the fact that Sonic Rush focused more on finishing a Zone with style and at full speed, imo, that's where the real fun lies, in the speed, so of course I found Sonic Rush to be a much better game in that respect.
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Exactly. Sonic is not meant to be a platforming character... every one of his moves is meant to be used on the run or to get him on the run, as opposed to a Mario, Megaman or Belmont who all have tighter controls. In Sonic games, a platform is ideally there to be ran and hopped off quickly.

This is why some people like Sonic CD and some don't. Sonic CD is all platforming, and is the antithesis of Rush, which is all about speed and style. I didn't like the playthrough of Sonic CD I had last week because I was consantly at rest in the later levels, navigating vertical platforms. It's Sonic man! I want to run.
 
Duckula said:
Why does Sonic Rush get so much praise? It's a game with terrible design and bland environments and enemies.
Click to expand...

Agree. Wasn't fun for me.

Sorry, but rushing full speed down a path like I used to and then falling to my death was not...fun for me. That's not Sonic. Very rarely can you fall to a lower path in Sonic Rush...I died so frequently.
 
I remember all the old Sonic games having cheap pit deaths.... Actually they were glitchy as hell and often you'd die for no reason. I'm sure I died in a pit less in Rush than I did in Sonic 2.
 
BocoDragon said:
I remember all the old Sonic games having cheap pit deaths.... Actually they were glitchy as hell and often you'd die for no reason. I'm sure I died in a pit less in Rush than I did in Sonic 2.
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That's because you're playing the game wrong, the Sonic games are definitely platforming games, even if it has an emphasis on speed.
 
It really depends on what you want. I loved Sonic for the speed, after playing Mario games, I can't accept the "platforming" bits as they are sloppy and don't mesh well with the speedy nature of Sonic and the rest, imo of course.

I've always felt there was a clash... Sonic never quite reached Mario for me because there was always the clash between whether it was about speed, or about platforming. I loved the speedy bits, I didn't like the platforming at all. So Sonic Rush was the perfect one for me. It brought all of the speed, spiced it up with variety and added a trick system that made moving around the levels a lot of fun. I can understand why it won't be fun for some, but for me, this is the way I always wanted Sonic to be like.

BocoDragon said:
I remember all the old Sonic games having cheap pit deaths.... Actually they were glitchy as hell and often you'd die for no reason. I'm sure I died in a pit less in Rush than I did in Sonic 2.
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Yeah, cheap deaths were there right from the very first Sonic game.

And funny enough, these bottom pit complaints were never really an issue for me.
 
AdmiralViscen said:
All three of the best Sonic games had perfect balances of platforming and running. Sonic was never "just about the running."
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There was a little more exploration in Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, and Sonic CD was a vertical nightmare, but other than that, yes, it is all about the running. It's Sonic! Don't make me grab the lyrics to his various TV theme songs. :) "He's the fastest thing alive". Blast Processing, anyone?

I know I was trying to race through all the old Sonics with style.

If you're talking about the branching levels in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, well yeah, I miss those too. That is the only thing Sonic Rush didn't have going for it.
 
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