I never knew this.....considering Spinball was still enjoyable on the Genesis, that wasn't the dumbest move on Sega's part.
Would you mind me posting this in the OP? More information is always a good thing to know
Go ahead!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles: Lock-On Power!
- Thread starter RK128
- Start date
Go ahead!
Thanks man
! Thank you for all this great backstory and information; really enlightening and gives me a greater appreciation for these awesome games .
Mac the KNife
Member
But that sprite...
IrishNinja
Member
Sonic 3/K is possibly my GOAT platformer, just so much greatness there...you get replayabliity from Sonic 2 and a ton of hidden special stages from 1! man, now i wanna replay em both this year.
+1
Don't give up on the sun. Don't make the sun laugh at you.
+1
Don't give up on the sun. Don't make the sun laugh at you.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Sonic & Knuckles is my favorite game cartridge of all time. Anyone who's not familiar with the game (at least in Genesis cartridge form) just wonders what the hell it is.
I like 3's better personally. 2's always looked really plain to me. 1/CD's is the best. Interesting that even though they made his hand way bigger in the stationary sprite, they seemed to just copy his arms from the S2 sprite while he's walking.
But that sprite...
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
Sonic 3 & Knuckles is still without a doubt the best Sonic game in my book and it's one of my favorite games ever. It has some levels that drag a bit and some poor design bits (the barrel...) but otherwise it's essentially the Mario 3 of the Sonic series.
Yep. It's also worth noting that the McDonald's Sonic 3 Happy Meal campaign was also responsible for Sonic 3 having to ship early. When Sega and McDonald's inked the deal, the Happy Meal campaign was slated for a late 1993/early 1994 period (presumably under the assumption that the game would be released around the same time). As the game was experiencing delays that threatened to affect the deal, Sonic 3 wound up being split in two in order to make the date. (This is mentioned in both the Pix'n Love History of Sonic book and the Console Wars book that were released a few years ago, IGN has an article about the latter that includes this bit).
And I'd say that bit Sonic 3&K in the butt a big way unfortunately. Neither S3 or S&K sold as well as the first two titles (though neither game being bundled with the Sega Genesis like the first two I think was to blame for that), and when viewed as individual titles (as you noted), they act more like mission pack sequels to Sonic 2 that don't push the envelope in features and modes on their own terms. I'd say that's partially the reason why the general public only recognize the first two games nowadays.
I'm sure if Sonic 3&K made it's planned release as one big Sonic 3 and was bundled with the Sega Genesis, it would had easily blown Sonic 2 out the water, and would had sold as well as the first two games.
After the 3D re-release of Sonic 2 (which brought an end to the second slew of 3D re-releases), Sega/M2 said that they currently have no plans of making another wave of 3D Classics ports, though they said they may continue if sales are decent. Maybe if the 3D Classics retail compilation sells well, they will change their minds.
Yep. It's also worth noting that the McDonald's Sonic 3 Happy Meal campaign was also responsible for Sonic 3 having to ship early. When Sega and McDonald's inked the deal, the Happy Meal campaign was slated for a late 1993/early 1994 period (presumably under the assumption that the game would be released around the same time). As the game was experiencing delays that threatened to affect the deal, Sonic 3 wound up being split in two in order to make the date. (This is mentioned in both the Pix'n Love History of Sonic book and the Console Wars book that were released a few years ago, IGN has an article about the latter that includes this bit).
And I'd say that bit Sonic 3&K in the butt a big way unfortunately. Neither S3 or S&K sold as well as the first two titles (though neither game being bundled with the Sega Genesis like the first two I think was to blame for that), and when viewed as individual titles (as you noted), they act more like mission pack sequels to Sonic 2 that don't push the envelope in features and modes on their own terms. I'd say that's partially the reason why the general public only recognize the first two games nowadays.
I'm sure if Sonic 3&K made it's planned release as one big Sonic 3 and was bundled with the Sega Genesis, it would had easily blown Sonic 2 out the water, and would had sold as well as the first two games.
After playing Sonic 1 thought the 3D Classics version on my 2DS, would be very open to getting a Sonic 3&K 3D
Could see that being part of the next wave of 3D Classics honestly
After the 3D re-release of Sonic 2 (which brought an end to the second slew of 3D re-releases), Sega/M2 said that they currently have no plans of making another wave of 3D Classics ports, though they said they may continue if sales are decent. Maybe if the 3D Classics retail compilation sells well, they will change their minds.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles is my favorite of the mega drive Sonic games, plus it's the only Sonic game were I managed to get all the Chaos Emerald, plus the Super Emerald without resorting to inputting a cheat code like I did with Sonic 2.
Plus Sonic Team learnt from Sonic 2 and made it that you needed to press the jump button twice to make Sonic go Super, though he won't go super if you have a shield.
I don't know if it's because I played the game as adult but I never had that problem as I quickly figured it out.
That image there just highlight how everyone moaning about modern Sonic design just pointless, since he got redesigned for Sonic 3.
Though Sonic looks more American in Sonic 3 whereas in Sonic 1, 2 and CD he looked more Japanese.
Plus Sonic Team learnt from Sonic 2 and made it that you needed to press the jump button twice to make Sonic go Super, though he won't go super if you have a shield.
I don't know if it's because I played the game as adult but I never had that problem as I quickly figured it out.
But that sprite...
That image there just highlight how everyone moaning about modern Sonic design just pointless, since he got redesigned for Sonic 3.
Though Sonic looks more American in Sonic 3 whereas in Sonic 1, 2 and CD he looked more Japanese.
Well as a kid that part stumped everyone.
A friend and I would hop up and down as Sonic and Tails for ages and ages and rarely did we ever make it through, we had no idea we were doing it wrong, such a stupid obstacle.
Lots of PC games had expansions prior to 1994, though.
IronicSonic
Member
Control + F "Saturn" "Sonic Jam"
Damn gaf, best version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles
I love this two little gems. My favorite game in the series. I thinks this is the game when Yasuhara was in his prime. Love the exploration, love the speed, love the bonus stage and bosses.
Music is also, perfect.
10/10
Edit: interesting fact that Naka want a 3D Sonic. How is that even posible in a 94's genesis
Damn gaf, best version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles
I love this two little gems. My favorite game in the series. I thinks this is the game when Yasuhara was in his prime. Love the exploration, love the speed, love the bonus stage and bosses.
Music is also, perfect.
10/10
Edit: interesting fact that Naka want a 3D Sonic. How is that even posible in a 94's genesis
Love this game to death. I own(ed) Sonic 3 and I remember I frequently went to Blockbuster to try to rent S&K but it was always fucking rented
In addition to the music listed in the OP, also love the Special Stage music.
Also, fuck Carnival Night.
In addition to the music listed in the OP, also love the Special Stage music.
Also, fuck Carnival Night.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Sonic 3 + K is the best Sonic game they've ever made and I'm not sure if any future Sonic game could ever match it, considering just how large it is.
But that sprite...
It kinda bugs me that they are inconsistent with the revamped sprite as well, since some of the animation frames (like the spiral rotation) are still based on the Sonic 2 sprite when you look closer.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Greatest sonic game ever, pinnacle of the series. Some incredible level design and really fun power ups. Used to love getting the lightning/flame abilities.
Getting all the chaos emeralds AND super emeralds was pretty hard, from memory the number of giant rings took a nosedive in the S&K levels. Fun to do though, adreline levels were super high in some of those later special stages as I struggled to not make a mistake.
Sky Sanctuary/Death Egg 2/Doomsday were a brilliant way to finish the game.
It's been a bitter disappointment that sega never made a sonic game remotely as good again.
Getting all the chaos emeralds AND super emeralds was pretty hard, from memory the number of giant rings took a nosedive in the S&K levels. Fun to do though, adreline levels were super high in some of those later special stages as I struggled to not make a mistake.
Sky Sanctuary/Death Egg 2/Doomsday were a brilliant way to finish the game.
It's been a bitter disappointment that sega never made a sonic game remotely as good again.
Lord British
Member
Probably the game I've played through the highest number of times. Still finding new things. New secrets.
Near-perfect game as far as I'm concerned. It'd be better without Marble Garden, but there we are. I think Marble Garden is the only zone in S3k wherein the acts don't appreciably change in aesthetic.
Near-perfect game as far as I'm concerned. It'd be better without Marble Garden, but there we are. I think Marble Garden is the only zone in S3k wherein the acts don't appreciably change in aesthetic.
Wasn't Sonic 3 originally using Sonic 2's sprite, actually?
My favorite Genesis game and one of my favorite games overall. I freaking love Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and it remains as the best Sonic game even to this day.
So many great levels, great music, fantastic gameplay, awesome logo, cool Knuckles.
Love it.
I think that after this game, the one I like the most is Generations.
So many great levels, great music, fantastic gameplay, awesome logo, cool Knuckles.
Love it.
I think that after this game, the one I like the most is Generations.
It was weird, Mushroom Hill probably had the most giant rings of any zone in the double game, but then there were hardly any in Flying Battery, Sandopolis, and Lava Reef.
I feel that the Sonic & Knuckles half of the game is stronger overall, though it helps that I seem to be one of the only people who actually likes Sandopolis. The only thing I don't like about it is the Act 1 boss, since there's no good way to speed it up after the relatively long level before it. I also can't /stand/ Carnival Night, between the eye-searing neon colors, the repetitive music, the obnoxious water sections, and repressed barrel trauma.
It's worth noting that the Sonic & Knuckles Collection, a PC release of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, had a couple of songs completely replaced, possibly due to the limitations of MIDI. That was actually the first version I ever played, so when I heard Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base in the Genesis version, I was kinda thrown. The "Sonic 3 Complete" rom hack actually allows you to switch to Genesis recreations of these songs:
Carnival Night Act 1
Carnival Night Act 2
Ice Cap Act 1
Ice Cap Act 2
Launch Base Act 1
Launch Base Act 2
Carnival Night is the only unequivocal improvement here, but I always found Genesis Ice Cap's songs to feel repetitive, so those are nice to me, too. Not sure what happened with Launch Base, though.
I'm almost completely positive that this rather had to do with rights issues because of the whole Michael Jackson debacle.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Yeah. Used to spend ages looking through each zone when I was younger, but they just didn't exist lol
Sandopolis act 2 kinda feels like it wandered out of another game and got lost. Still fun though. Ghosts growing gave me a feeling akin to being in water for too long
For S3&K, sure. Star Light Zone and Hill Top Zone are better for the franchise overall imo
Sonic 3 & Knuckles isn't available on PS3, I'm afraid.
Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are available as separated games in this compilation:
But the lock-on feature is not present here, unfortunately.
And I'm not sure about the Wii VC situation.
Yo, fuck this. Shit made me mad as a kid.
Maybe its a secret anniversary project, which is why we heard nothing about it
I want this but throw in Knuckles Chaotix. Underrated game in my opinion and that game has never been re-released. Also while their at it, release a HD port of Sonic Heroes. And while their at it release the Sonic Advance & Sonic Battle games on the Wii U e-shop. And While their at it...
But on-topic, I absolutely adore S3&K. It's my all time favorite Sonic game of all time. I've played and beat it multiple times on genesis, PC, Gamecube, Xbox & DS and If they release it again I will play it with no hesitation.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles isn't available on PS3, I'm afraid.
Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are available as separated games in this compilation:
But the lock-on feature is not present here, unfortunately.
Yeah I was surprised when I found out that you couldn't lock them to play Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
I mean how do you mess that up?
The Wii Virtual console has the lock on function, it's also worth mentioning that don't bother with the European Wii virtual console, as they will be the 50hz version.
There is if I don't remember wrong, the ruins on the background are closer.
10 minutes? I legitimately didn't figure this out after months of owning the game as a kid. I would just get bored and turn the game off because I didn't get it. For the longest time, Sonic 3 ended at the casino zone.
Love these games. The best Sonic game ever when combined.
And S&K's levels are better than Sonic 3's. Marble Garden and the Casino zone alone make it so.
Sonic 3 has Ice Cap, though, which is the GOAT zone. So it's pretty close in the end.
I like Sonic 3's better. Until Sonic 3 I always thought that Sonic had a singular row of three spikes like a mohawk on his back. The Sonic 3 sprite makes it clear that that's not the case.
And it was super-important at the time to use a new sprite. I remember booting the game up as kids on Christmas morning with my cousins and the first thing we all said was 'Whoa! Sonic looks different!' That kind of thing was important to a kid to make you know that you were playing a brand new gig. In our minds it was this huge graphical advance. Makes me chuckle looking back on it now.
And S&K's levels are better than Sonic 3's. Marble Garden and the Casino zone alone make it so.
Sonic 3 has Ice Cap, though, which is the GOAT zone. So it's pretty close in the end.
But that sprite...
I like Sonic 3's better. Until Sonic 3 I always thought that Sonic had a singular row of three spikes like a mohawk on his back. The Sonic 3 sprite makes it clear that that's not the case.
And it was super-important at the time to use a new sprite. I remember booting the game up as kids on Christmas morning with my cousins and the first thing we all said was 'Whoa! Sonic looks different!' That kind of thing was important to a kid to make you know that you were playing a brand new gig. In our minds it was this huge graphical advance. Makes me chuckle looking back on it now.
War Raichu
Member
my favorite game of all time
anybody that likes the game owes it to themselves to check out the Sonic 3 Complete hack. It does a lot of cool stuff like reorder levels to match what they originally were prior to the games being separated (Carnival Night -> Flying Battery -> Ice Cap, and you snowboard on the door you spin through at the end of Flying Battery), improves transition between the two games (after Launch Base, you get a cutscene using the Death Egg crash from S&K's title screen), and does a lot of bug-fixing. You can even tweak the music to use either S3, S&K, or a mix of both.
anybody that likes the game owes it to themselves to check out the Sonic 3 Complete hack. It does a lot of cool stuff like reorder levels to match what they originally were prior to the games being separated (Carnival Night -> Flying Battery -> Ice Cap, and you snowboard on the door you spin through at the end of Flying Battery), improves transition between the two games (after Launch Base, you get a cutscene using the Death Egg crash from S&K's title screen), and does a lot of bug-fixing. You can even tweak the music to use either S3, S&K, or a mix of both.
SkylineRKR
Member
All SK stages are good. Even Sandopolis though its my least favourite of the bunch.
But Lava Reef is awesome as hell, as is Sky Sanctuary and Flying Battery. Music unmatched.
Vanilla S3 had Carnival and Marble Garden, which I rate below Sandopolis. But on the whole this game, when combined, had an onslaught of great stages. It is the best 2d platform game I ever played. Collecting all emeralds twice was epic, you would get Hyper mode.
But Lava Reef is awesome as hell, as is Sky Sanctuary and Flying Battery. Music unmatched.
Vanilla S3 had Carnival and Marble Garden, which I rate below Sandopolis. But on the whole this game, when combined, had an onslaught of great stages. It is the best 2d platform game I ever played. Collecting all emeralds twice was epic, you would get Hyper mode.
Sonic 2's special stages...
You just reminded me that I went straight from 1 to 3, thanks, haha. My neighbour had Sonic 2 (and a sega CD!) but I never did. I got 1 game a year at Christmas, that was it. I had to make them count.
You can't deny that that's what the Sonic 2 sprite looks like, though.
Eh, I would honestly posit that back then, with CRT blurring and all that it was more stuff like this:
along with stuff like buzzsaw spindash Sonic in e.g. AoSTH setting an expectation and the sprite doing nothing to dissuade the notion from lack of detail. (It couldn't, not with tech back in the day)
edit: Also on topic with Sonic 3's sprite, the CRT blurring actually makes the sprite work. When cleanly blown up with nearest neighbor nowadays, Sonic's irises make him look like he's high on coffee.
along with stuff like buzzsaw spindash Sonic in e.g. AoSTH setting an expectation and the sprite doing nothing to dissuade the notion from lack of detail. (It couldn't, not with tech back in the day)
edit: Also on topic with Sonic 3's sprite, the CRT blurring actually makes the sprite work. When cleanly blown up with nearest neighbor nowadays, Sonic's irises make him look like he's high on coffee.
RowdyReverb
Member
Absolutely. The other iOS ports are amazing. Perhaps because of the size of this game compared to the others, Taxman and Stealth required a higher budget that Sega just wasn't interested in providing. I just saw a post from December from Stealth saying he's on contract for some project that isn't S3&K though, so I'm not getting my hopes upSega needs to approve the Taxman port already
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
But that sprite...
S3&K is a mighty fine game, and one of the finest platformers ever, but the new sprite and the "grainy" graphics are two of the major reasons I never liked the game as much as Sonic 1 and 2.
I remember saying that resources in restoring the lock-on would of gutted a number of games from the collection.....so I guess Eclipse didn't have enough time to make the Genesis Collection :l.
nah, is not about the budget. It's not happening because Sega doesn't want the port, probably because good old licensing issues.
Sealth pretty much hinted about it if I'm not mistaken.
That was a whole lot of "Good thing good because it good. Me like thing so it good!" Like posting a map tells you nothing about level design. How do the challenges link together and build off one another? you know things like that would actually back up a point.