Hypothetical: What would Taxman do about the barrel?
Just add a dpad prompt? It's not a problem when you know how.
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Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles: Lock-On Power!
- Thread starter RK128
- Start date
Just add a dpad prompt? It's not a problem when you know how.
Diablohead
Member
Sonic 3 part 1, there's bigger carnival artwork with some background unedited saying part one or something similar.
*edit*
Inferno313
Banned
Someone remind me, because I have it, but can't check right now.
Does the Steam version let you access Sonic 3 & Knuckles or just the individual games?
Does the Steam version let you access Sonic 3 & Knuckles or just the individual games?
One of the best platformers ever made, best Sonic game by a mile too. Everything fits so well, the story, music gameplay and graphics are still top notch to this day!
Really love how the game tells the "story" of Dr Robotnik searching for the Chaos Emeralds and him trying to slow down Sonic so he can launch his Death Egg in S3. Whereas in S3&K (after S3) it's more of a mad race between Sonic and Dr Robotnik to find the Master Emerald (evidently in Mushroom hill where he is scanning Angel Island for a new power source) and end the game in Space between Super Sonic and Death Egg Robot V2
Really love how the game tells the "story" of Dr Robotnik searching for the Chaos Emeralds and him trying to slow down Sonic so he can launch his Death Egg in S3. Whereas in S3&K (after S3) it's more of a mad race between Sonic and Dr Robotnik to find the Master Emerald (evidently in Mushroom hill where he is scanning Angel Island for a new power source) and end the game in Space between Super Sonic and Death Egg Robot V2
Aaron Strife
Banned
I think the discovery that Icecap is lifted straight from that Jetzons song has hugely compromised future releases of this game.
Frankly I would be totally fine with the soundtrack being modified for an iOS release, but I know that would upset a good number of people. I've heard some suggestion that they might do Chaotix next just because there's no legal hassle and it's highly sought after (real talk though it kind of sucks), but I'm pretty sure that's not really based on anything other than I believe that Stealth has been offered another job.
Would love a new compilation for the current-gen consoles that includes Retro Engine updates of S1-3&K, CD, Chaotix and even Spinball and 3D Blast.
Frankly I would be totally fine with the soundtrack being modified for an iOS release, but I know that would upset a good number of people. I've heard some suggestion that they might do Chaotix next just because there's no legal hassle and it's highly sought after (real talk though it kind of sucks), but I'm pretty sure that's not really based on anything other than I believe that Stealth has been offered another job.
Would love a new compilation for the current-gen consoles that includes Retro Engine updates of S1-3&K, CD, Chaotix and even Spinball and 3D Blast.
nkarafo
Member
Best Sonic game and one of the best 2D platformers of all time.
I especially like one small detail, that is the electric shield that makes nearby rings go crazy and even fly in orbit around it (if you do it right). Looks like they created a very cool physics system just for this detail.
Meanwhile, modern Sonic Team can't even get the basic physics right...
I especially like one small detail, that is the electric shield that makes nearby rings go crazy and even fly in orbit around it (if you do it right). Looks like they created a very cool physics system just for this detail.
Meanwhile, modern Sonic Team can't even get the basic physics right...
The composer of that Jetzons track is the same composer as Ice Cap anyways, so I don't think the problem is just that song.
nkarafo
Member
First "Sonic friends that suck" game.
I love the magnetic shield, having a massive trail of rings trying to catch up with you never gets old. There's a good part of Flying Battery where that orbit thing is pretty much guaranteed to happen.
I think we will get a 3&K remaster but with some select tracks being edited out or changed (Ice Cap getting a new theme from a Sonic Team composer or using the Adventure version of the theme might be a good compromise). The MJ composed tracks had no issue for future releases (as Sega owns the music of Sonic 3 & K), it just seems like Ice Cap has the biggest legal hassle around it.
Chaotix has to be next on the list, as its a classic game very few even played and some careful fixes could make it a stronger product. Going to be fun revisiting this in the future honestly
.Probably my favorite platformer of the time. It's one of the few 2D platformers I'd feel comfortable calling "epic" - just long enough to feel much meatier than other games of its time but it doesn't overstay its welcome either. Love the large levels with more exploration than 1 and 2 as well (2's level design always struck me as too simple).
Aaron Strife
Banned
The special stages are the best in the series.
Other than that... Ehhhhhh... Great music though.
IronicSonic
Member
Hypothetical: What would Taxman do about the barrel?
Get rid of it
Elfforkusu
Member
Point taken. Console DLC!
Personally I prefer hydrocity 2 and flying battery 2..
Tizoc
Member
Best platformer. Best selection of snazzy music you can hum to in a single (double) game. Best replay potential. Best selection of playable characters to choose from. Best selection of zones, acts and bosses.
Hypothetical: What would Taxman do about the barrel?
He would do
NOTHING
and leave it as is.
Aaron Strife
Banned
It was released on GameTap very briefly and never again.
I got a 32x and Chaotix instead of Final Fantasy III.
Believe me when I say, I truly got the short end of the stick. I truly believe the 32x was the absolute worst piece of shit Ive ever spent money on.
The kicker was I had the sega cd as well, so in the end it looked like one big giant Frankenfuck on life support. Most of the time I just played standard Genesis carts on it. IMAGINE THAT, all that add on shit and it delivered in total probably less than 10 hours total of worthwhile gameplay.
Greatest add on device was and always will be the Super Gameboy. Period.
I have always been somewhat confused about Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles, and Sonic 3 & Knuckles even though I own them.
What happens when I start a new game of Sonic 3 & Knuckles? Do I play through the entirety of Sonic 3 first, then get to the Sonic & Knuckles levels? Are the levels any different when the cartridges are combined?
What happens when I start a new game of Sonic 3 & Knuckles? Do I play through the entirety of Sonic 3 first, then get to the Sonic & Knuckles levels? Are the levels any different when the cartridges are combined?
TheCongressman1
Member
Yeah, it's exactly like a part 1 and 2 kinda deal. You lock them together, and you can play all the way through. The levels for Sonic and Tails vary only slightly, mostly different object placements. But The big deal is that you can play with Knuckles though the first game as well, which opens up completely new areas that only Knuckles can get to. It's pretty amazing.
Ein Bear
Member
We really need a good, modern way of playing S3&K and the other classics.
The XBLA/PSN versions are those shit Backbone ports that cut out the menu screens and have input lag/sound issues.
The Wii Virtual Console versions run at 50hz in Europe.
The Steam versions are just cheap ROMs in an emulator, like something you'd download from a Geocities page in 1998.
It's a damn shame Taxman never got to remaster S3&K, and it's downright criminal that the ports of 1/2 that he did do are trapped on mobile.
The XBLA/PSN versions are those shit Backbone ports that cut out the menu screens and have input lag/sound issues.
The Wii Virtual Console versions run at 50hz in Europe.
The Steam versions are just cheap ROMs in an emulator, like something you'd download from a Geocities page in 1998.
It's a damn shame Taxman never got to remaster S3&K, and it's downright criminal that the ports of 1/2 that he did do are trapped on mobile.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Yup
When I was playing S3 before S&K came out I always wondered why there were obviously breakable walls that I couldn't break lol
Yup. Saturn version is still the best way to play. That was released in 1997 lol
Hypothetical: What would Taxman do about the barrel?
The biggest issue with that barrel isn't the barrel itself, but the design of the level leading up to the barrel. People assume jumping up on the barrels is how you move then because they react and bounce when you jump on them. And why would they assume anything else? Jumping on them works in every instance that you see them. Just put something in the level that forces the player to look up when you get to that section or put something interesting there. Let the player discover the mechanic by "accident".
Battersea Power Station
Member
Let's use a completely non-sequitor gameplay mechanic that will never be used in the game again!
It's the only time I've ever called the tips hotline in my life...
You play both games yeah, when you beat the final boss of Sonic 3 you fall down to Mushroom Hill and continue the game.
Game is largely the same, S3&K includes some bug fixes and really minor item placement (I'm probably forgetting something more). It also changes the mini boss and Knuckles theme with the S&K one.
You can also play all of the Knuckles "campaign", from Angel Island to Sanctuary Zone. It's actually placed after the Sonic story of S3%K (notice how Angel Island is up in the sky again, for example).
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Agreed. The biggest issue is a lot of people never used the "up" button at all
And then you discovered the debug code and found out there were more than just empty space behind those walls!
Well, there was something back there but the stage refused to scroll past a certain point or ended in a dead-end so we were left with one of many mysteries.
The second mystery: stage select's mysterious "Mushroom Valley", "Sandopolis" and "Flying Battery" entries.
The third:
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
The only Sonic game I've ever beaten and gotten all the chaos emeralds. What a ride it was.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Chaotix is mediocre at best, so it's not really worth wasting time, money and effort on getting to play it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The secret best stage in the game is Flying Battery Zone.
I have fantasies of seeing a Generations style remake of the stage. Like the Egg Carrier stage in Sonic Adventure dialed to 11. Running around on this massive air ship in the sky. Then running around this massive power generator complex on the inside.
There's a tease for it in Sonic Generations, but you never do much with it (just a tiny bit of Rooftop Run). Not to the scale the level deserves at least.
There's even a modern remix for it. Like, was the stage planned for Generations? The Olympics doesn't have a lot of Sonic remixes, why this inexplicable modern Generations sounding Flying Battery remix? Generations 3DS has the Classic Remix. For some reason. It's not on the official soundtrack I own, so I guess it's unused?
It was so close I can taste it.
To be honest, a dream game of mine would be a full Generations style remix of Sonic 3. Classic and Modern remakes of all of the stages from the game. Modern Angel Island Act 2, hmmmmmmmmmm oh baby. Dat forest fire potential.
I have fantasies of seeing a Generations style remake of the stage. Like the Egg Carrier stage in Sonic Adventure dialed to 11. Running around on this massive air ship in the sky. Then running around this massive power generator complex on the inside.
There's a tease for it in Sonic Generations, but you never do much with it (just a tiny bit of Rooftop Run). Not to the scale the level deserves at least.
There's even a modern remix for it. Like, was the stage planned for Generations? The Olympics doesn't have a lot of Sonic remixes, why this inexplicable modern Generations sounding Flying Battery remix? Generations 3DS has the Classic Remix. For some reason. It's not on the official soundtrack I own, so I guess it's unused?
It was so close I can taste it.
To be honest, a dream game of mine would be a full Generations style remix of Sonic 3. Classic and Modern remakes of all of the stages from the game. Modern Angel Island Act 2, hmmmmmmmmmm oh baby. Dat forest fire potential.
Never knew about that Classic remix......
If anything, I could of pictured it being one of the 3DS stages but got replaced with Mushroom Hill late in development or it was going to be another Classic Era game for Generations but they cut the fourth stage for each era to get the game out faster.
I have a strong feeling that stuff was gutted from Generations and will cover my thoughts on that when I make that thread latter on, but to sum things up, story content was gutted and we have character models of Omega, Big and Chip in the Trophy Room for the console version of Generations. With Big's VA reportedly recording some lines that were never part of generations.
Also note worthy that the poll Sega used for stage selection for Generations included Secret Rings (which was also mentioned in Generations with a one-off comment from Sonic after he saves Modern Tails; could of had Sand Oasis or Night Palace as the fourth Modern Level following Crisis City but before Rooftop Run). And the rumors that the anniversary game (Generations) was going to be focused from Sonic 1 up too Sonic Adventure 2. By that logic.....you would need a lot of classic and dreamcast stages to make a full game out of that
.My bet is that the following happened.
-Flying Battery was going to be a Classic Stage that follows Chemical Plant and has Metal Sonic be the character you 'save'. You fight him after you restore the stage as Modern/Classic Sonic. But mid-development it was cut.
-Dimps like the idea of a Flying Battery level and was going to use it for the Classic Era. But something prevented that from happening, so they made a Mushroom Hill stage instead.
-With remixes composed for the track already completed, Sega said 'Eh, just use it for other games' and thus, Mario & Sonic used it for an event (alongside assets from the cut stage being used for the Dream Event its used in and the model of Flying Battery itself being saved for set pieces in Rooftop Run) and Generations 3DS kept the Classic Remix for a mission.
My final thoughts on this fourth stage per Era idea is that we would of gotten the following if time allowed it.
-Classic: Flying Battery Zone
-Dreamcast: Some Shadow the Hedgehog Level (we got the main theme from the game as an unlockable track for example)
-Modern: Some Secret Rings Stage (Sand Oasis, Dinosaur Jungle, Night Palace)
Maybe not in the US but it was bundled in the UK/EU
I remember buying that bundle just to play the game a week early even though I already owned a Megadrive, worth every penny!
Ah my friend, I was talking about the SEGA Genesis, not this Mega Drive gadget!
US sales, yeah. Sonic 1 is around 15 million because of bundling and Sonic 2 is about six million because of bundling in the US.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If Flying Battery was cut for Generations, I think it probably would have been a 3DS stage.
As much as I can dream of a massive, flying air ship where you go in an out seamlessly in 3D, it would be incredibly complicated and likely very difficult to represent correctly.
As much as I can dream of a massive, flying air ship where you go in an out seamlessly in 3D, it would be incredibly complicated and likely very difficult to represent correctly.
I agree, likely a stage planed for the 3DS version but technical issue plus rushed development time lead to them cutting that from the game.
Its impressive they got Generations 3DS out as fast as they did, considering the DS version of Colors came out only one year prior.
Sato Koiji
Member
Its my favorite game of all time. The nostalgia is too strong on this one...
Always depressing if you think about what happened to Sega and Sonic in general years after this golden era.
and
Always depressing if you think about what happened to Sega and Sonic in general years after this golden era.
and That "classic remix" was never intended for a stage - all of Hataya's "classic remixes" use the original Genesis/Mega Drive instrumentation with new percussion and effects mixed in, whereas this "classic remix" is totally redone with new instrumentation like the other Sonic 3 songs remixed for Generations's custom-song/jukebox feature.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Ideally I would have swapped around a few stages. Like I think Starlight Carnival would have a much more impressive way to end the game, although I get why they picked Planet Wisp (most games end with an Eggman machine level).
Green Hill
Stardust Speedway as a full stage
Chemical Plant
Flying Battery
Lost World
City Escape
Seaside Hill
Some stage from Shadow
Crisis City
Some stage from Secret Rings
Rooftop Run
Starlight Carnival
My dream stage line up for generations would of had four stages from the three eras.
Classic:
Green Hill
Chemical Plant
Ice Cap
Sky Sanctuary
Dreamcast:
Lost World
City Escape
Seaside Hill or Hang Castle
Gun Fortress, Sky Troops or Digital Circuit
Modern:
Crisis City
Night Palace or Sand Oasis
Planet Wisp
Eggmanland (but with elements from Flying Battery, Final Egg, Death Egg and Egg Fleet/Final Fortress being used too)
Edit: I would of had 8 Zones instead of the 7 we got for the 3DS version too.
Classic: Green Hill, Casino Night, Flying Battery or Quartz Quadrant
Advanced: Secret Base, Sky Canyon, Chaos Angel
Rush: Water Palace, Sky Babylon
Fuck you barrel, you wasted my whole afternoon.
The barrel is a perfect storm of bad design decisions, since it's also ever so slightly possible to push it down far enough by timing jumps with both Sonic and Tails, which works great as a red herring.
Yes, if it didn't bounce up and down if you jump on it, every kid wouldn't automatically assume you're just supposed to get enough momentum going, instead of this mechanic that will never be used again anywhere else in the game.
NICE