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[Shadow Hog]

Even if Penders wasn't involved, I'd imagine that lore-based reasons were good enough to keep Knuckles and Tails unique. If I recall, Miles Prower was supposed to be one of a kind, while Knuckles was supposed to be the last of his.

Knuckles being the last of the echidnas is fine and all I guess, but having another fox wouldn't really make Tails that much less unique, unless that fox were also to have two tails for some reason and be able to use them to fly like he does - something I don't feel Sega'd be silly enough to allow to happen.

Anyway, I'm also sort of guessing gloves and shoes are mandatory, so that combined with no foxes means "Zootopia's Nick Wilde fights Dr. Eggman!" won't be happening anytime soon, I guess.

 

[Waddle Dee]

Yeah...really set a bad taste in my mouth, and I didn't even bother posting in that thread.



Even if Penders wasn't involved, I'd imagine that lore-based reasons were good enough to keep Knuckles and Tails unique. If I recall, Miles Prower was supposed to be one of a kind, while Knuckles was supposed to be the last of his.

Am a bit salty that dinosaurs/dragons/lizards weren't even considered. Did they really need both wolves and dogs?

I thought about the "last of his kind" lore bit about Knuckles but since Sonic Team hasn't done anything with him in over a decade I just assume it wouldn't really matter to them and they'd just retcon it or something.

Tails may be the only fox with two tails but that doesn't mean he has to be the only fox.

My problem with the character creator is that the characters it creates look just as bad as the lazy ones kids create on Deviantart. They have this really creepy out of place look to them, and I'm not sure they could have picked a worse representative for the trailer.

-likely the reason for no foxes or echidnas is that Tails and Knuckles' abilities are too strongly ingrained into those species and would be expected; especially echidnas since Knuckles isn't really special like Tails is.

-the gadgets are wisps. Wispons. The flamethrower comes from the blast wisp and can be used to shoot flames or jump continuously for an amount of time. Likely there will be a laser gun for laser wisp etc. The flamethrower looked really bad. Just running around slowly and killing enemies with your overpowered stream of fire.

-my biggest issue is that the gameplay is essentially Sonic Boom's gameplay (slow platforming and melee plus grappling hooks) mixed with Shadow the Hedgehog's weapons focus. It doesn't look that much better than it was in Sonic Boom and, considering that they appear to be struggling to make Modern and Classic Sonic decent quality, spreading their resources across a third style makes things even worse.

I actually don't really mind the design of the custom characters, at least not at the moment. They look like simple, generic characters that could just be npcs in Sonic's world. I really don't see what could be considered "creepy" about them.

Most fan characters are terrible for one of two major reasons... They either look like Sonic and friends but just recolored or they look so radically different that they look like they don't belong. I think what we've seen so far reaches a nice middle ground.

As far as your gameplay complaints are concerned, I agree to an extent but we still have seen so little of the game that I'm just waiting for more info. The gadgets look like they won't serve much purpose besides the occasional arbitrary use but we'll see.

 

[Village]

Knuckles being the last of the echidnas is fine and all I guess, but having another fox wouldn't really make Tails that much less unique, unless that fox were also to have two tails for some reason and be able to use them to fly like he does - something I don't feel Sega'd be silly enough to allow to happen.

Anyway, I'm also sort of guessing gloves and shoes are mandatory, so that combined with no foxes means "Zootopia's Nick Wilde fights Dr. Eggman!" won't be happening anytime soon, I guess.

maybe sega has secret lore in a sonic bible somewhere? I don't know, no fox is weird.

 

[TrueBlue]

That thread, man.

"This is why everyone hates Sonic fans" - what a crock of shit.

 

[Azure Dream]

That thread, man.

"This is why everyone hates Sonic fans" - what a crock of shit.

"Modding is a group decision," "We use ModBot because it's easier on mobile," but it just also happens to let the mod handling the final locking take a swipe at people without tipping their hand who it was, basically preventing future Amir0x-style call-outs for patterns of crappy or insulting behavior.

But of course we're not supposed to complain on the forum itself publicly. We're supposed to PM some random admin, hoping they weren't the one who did it, where I'm sure the concerns will be carefully dealt with in a considered mann- aaaand it's in the vertical file.

This has been happening for years. I particularly remember this thread: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=591646&page=1 which has had many of the posts deleted out, but still got a legitimate news piece closed "because people keep posting fanart". That's not the OP's fault by any stretch. Now they've just moved on to "blaming Sonic fans." Marvelous.

 

[TrueBlue]

I mean, I get it. There's a reason why certain elements of the fanbase have a reputation.

It just seems like a weirdly broad brush to paint people with.

Ah well, live and let live.

 

[Professor Beef]

You get used to the stereotypes after a while.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I'll be blunt: anyone who feels compelled to find and then post that kind of Sonic... fanart... is probably a closet furry. Almost definitely. This is their only means of release.

 

[MrBadger]

Bit of a shame how every time there's a Sonic thread, everyone rushes to Google to find their favourite weird fan art. The Sonic toilet was funny once.

 

[Aki-at]

I was wondering what happened in the thread, I guess I'm going to have to subscribe here if I want to avoid the stupidity of everyone else on the other side. Bit strange there isn't an official topic for Sonic Forces now.

That thread, man.

"This is why everyone hates Sonic fans" - what a crock of shit.

Yeah I might not identify myself as a Sonic fan as much as others but this rubbed me the wrong way. I've been on the Internet for a while, you can dig up er unique fanart of any major series but the majority of Sonic fans get tarred with it for some reason.

In that sense I'm glad SEGA is memeing themselves into oblivion with Sonic.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Wait, the sonic fans were the one blamed for the thread going down the usual path?
Hilarious, the people posting thread locking fanart pieces are pretty much always the people just running "jokes" into the ground with no interest in the game itself.

But GAF gonna GAF with Sonic threads so it's not really unexpected.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Imma a need a full version of that Park Avenue track like now

 

[Regiruler]

And they wonder why legit discussion can only happen Off-topic...

If you think shitposting is relegated only to gaming-side...

 

[Shadow Hog]

I'll be blunt: anyone who feels compelled to find and then post that kind of Sonic... fanart... is probably a closet furry. Almost definitely. This is their only means of release.

I mean, as far as I know, the FurryGAF |OT| still exists.

Okay, sure, they wouldn't really be closet furries if they got to that point, but still

Bit strange there isn't an official topic for Sonic Forces now.

OTs aren't allowed until, like, a week before launch IIRC, and preview threads are under the whole "new thread for new news" rule, so it's not that strange at all, really.

 

[Regiruler]

I mean, as far as I know, the FurryGAF |OT| still exists.

Okay, sure, they wouldn't really be closet furries if they got to that point, but still

OTs aren't allowed until, like, a week before launch IIRC, and preview threads are under the whole "new thread for new news" rule, so it's not that strange at all, really.

It's a day before launch.

 

[TheOGB]

Imma a need a full version of that Park Avenue track like now

It took me three views to process that there were lyrics kicking in in the last few seconds

From what we've heard so far this soundtrack is shaping up to be... interesting.

The gameplay footage

 

[Shadow Hog]

It's a day before launch.

That must have changed within the past six years, then, because I swear it was a week before launch at some point within said timeframe.

 

[Aki-at]

Imma a need a full version of that Park Avenue track like now

As someone who subscribes that uptbeat pop music suits the franchise, I was pleased by the music track.

OTs aren't allowed until, like, a week before launch IIRC, and preview threads are under the whole "new thread for new news" rule, so it's not that strange at all, really.

I should have been clearer, I meant that there isn't a thread to discuss the actual trailer and news of character creation. Sure if this was a couple of weeks old now I'd understand but since the thread was locked within what, 15 hours? Ah well, what's done is done.

 

[Regiruler]

That must have changed within the past six years, then, because I swear it was a week before launch at some point within said timeframe.

Past six years? Well no duh.

 

[Waddle Dee]

You get used to the stereotypes after a while.

It's a shame because when I signed up to NeoGAF one of the things I was excited for was that I could actually have legit discussions about the Sonic franchise without having to deal with the really idiotic fanboys and the ignorant posters that make the same jokes over and over.

I've thought about doing a LttP series of Sonic threads where I play through every Sonic game worth a shit (and even those that aren't) but I always get cold feet because I just know the threads will turn into a sludge of dumb asses derailing it with the same tired shit.

I'll be blunt: anyone who feels compelled to find and then post that kind of Sonic... fanart... is probably a closet furry. Almost definitely. This is their only means of release.

Yeah, despite being a huge Sonic fan that's been on the internet since 2005, I've never seen anything quite as hideous as some of the filth that the trolls post. The Sonic toilet one in particular is nightmarish. These people have to be deliberately looking through the most vile of sites in order to find some of this stuff.

 

[Professor Beef]

I should add that I say "you get used to it" because I've spent years trying to educate people in Sonic threads (some doing way more effort than me, NGL), but there's only so many threads a person can take where nobody listens before one goes crazy.

It's a shame because when I signed up to NeoGAF one of the things I was excited for was that I could actually have legit discussions about the Sonic franchise without having to deal with the really idiotic fanboys and the ignorant posters that make the same jokes over and over.

I've thought about doing a LttP series of Sonic threads where I play through every Sonic game worth a shit (and even those that aren't) but I always get cold feet because I just know the threads will turn into a sludge of dumb asses derailing it with the same tired shit..

Actually, RK did something similar a year or so back, and the threads were pretty civil (for the most part; the crappier games were as funny as you'd expect lol). So it can be done, at least.

 

[Nocturnowl]

LttP Sonic threads are pretty safe to make as far as keeping discussion on track, the derailers only really turn up for new sonic stuff so they can trot out their "oh boy, here we go again!" and "end it pls" shtick and have it seem somewhat on topic.
The worst you'll get with LttP is the they were never good folks who may possibly at least be explaining why they feel that way...maybe.

 

[Professor Beef]

Making fun of the "I never played past Adventure 2" hot takes has become a hobby.

 

[Waddle Dee]

I should add that I say "you get used to it" because I've spent years trying to educate people in Sonic threads (some doing way more effort than me, NGL), but there's only so many threads a person can take where nobody listens before one goes crazy.

Actually, RK did something similar a year or so back, and the threads were pretty civil (for the most part; the crappier games were as funny as you'd expect lol). So it can be done, at least.

This is how I feel thanks to other forums. I've just lost the energy to argue with people about it. Honestly, even the "Sonic was never good to begin with" stuff digs into my skin nowadays.

Any who, how about something a little less bleak? What do you think your custom character is going to look like in sonic Forces? I never bothered with making a fan character, even in my teens, so it'll be something I'll probably have to put a lot of thought into since I often get distracted with character creator tools in games.

I'll probably make it a cat since that's what all my pets have been. It's a shame they decided to give each of the species their own unique ability since they are extremely unbalanced. The bird seems like the best option because of the double jump but I've always found anthropomorphic birds to look ugly so I won't be choosing that.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Bird or Bear tops my list but similarly I find the sonic design template mixed with birds looks kinda naff (safe to say I am not fond of those babylon rogues) so unless the customisation stuff is strong enough I'll be leaning towards Bear.

I anticipate spending a good hour being indecisive before actually starting the game due to the character creator, it may be a point of mockery for some but alongside the existing two styles of Sonic i think it makes for a fun idea as well as another spin on the current gameplay formula.

 

[allenpergallon]

Gaf stay disappointing with that trailer thread.

I'm not sure what to expect out of Forces just yet, but I'm not disappointed by the reveal; in fact I think it's the first bit of encouraging news from the game in the sense that it's clear that the game has some kind of gameplan and vision behind it now.

I haven't thought much about what type of character to make, but I like the implication that they could enhance and encourage replayability, assuming their levels are diverse enough. Hopefully there's enough game there to warrant each gameplay style being present.

If there's one thing I'd like next from Forces news, it would be footage from not-Park Avenue/not-Green Hill.

I mean, I get it. There's a reason why certain elements of the fanbase have a reputation.

It just seems like a weirdly broad brush to paint people with.

Ah well, live and learn.

Had to do it.

 

[Zaverious]

If they were gonna give unique skills to all the races I wish they would've all gotten a unique movement move besides Bird with its double jump. All of the other skills seem like they'll make little difference in a game like this.

 

[Waddle Dee]

If there's one thing I'd like next from Forces news, it would be footage from not-Park Avenue/not-Green Hill.

Yep. I really want to see another stage soon. We'll probably be seeing one at E3.

 

[Elija2]

The lack of skills variety has me thinking that the custom character levels aren't gonna have any (intentional) unique paths for each race. Kind of a missed opportunity.

 

[WPS]

I'm not sure what to expect out of Forces just yet, but I'm not disappointed by the reveal; in fact I think it's the first bit of encouraging news from the game in the sense that it's clear that the game has some kind of gameplan and vision behind it now.

I'm pretty pessemistic from what we've seen. The modern clips haven't shown anything interesting (though admittedly the actual platforming is less marketable then early level fast-going) and the classic clips look plain wrong. I can almost physically feel the parts where Sonic loses all momentum at random moments, like every time he hits a spring or about half the time when he bounces off an enemy.

Considering a few parts of OC style gameplay resemble some of boom's gameplay, I also wonder if it wasn't originally planned to be that.

I'm looking forward to Mania though.

 

[sixteen-bit]

 

[TheOGB]

If they were gonna give unique skills to all the races I wish they would've all gotten a unique movement move besides Bird with its double jump. All of the other skills seem like they'll make little difference in a game like this.

Yeah, I was looking through those species specialties and was like "Some of these... don't seem worth bothering with." I fear it'll end up feeling more like one or two "new characters", and then 5 or 6 of the same thing but with different modifiers of questionable usability.

My other fear is that we won't get much variance in physical appearance/body types so every character looks like the same as this old Flash game

 

[allenpergallon]

I'm pretty pessemistic from what we've seen. The modern clips haven't shown anything interesting (though admittedly the actual platforming is less marketable then early level fast-going) and the classic clips look plain wrong. I can almost physically feel the parts where Sonic loses all momentum at random moments, like every time he hits a spring or about half the time when he bounces off an enemy.

Considering a few parts of OC style gameplay resemble some of boom's gameplay, I also wonder if it wasn't originally planned to be that.

I'm looking forward to Mania though.

I'll agree about Modern's gameplay, they actively chose nothing of interest which quickly raised my eyebrows on this game's progress.

But Classic's gameplay actually seemed better than I was expecting. The level design doesn't seem quite as lavish or layered as Generations as of yet, but the acceleration and top speed made it look really fluid in motion and give it a better sense of flow and control than Gens I feel.

As for the momentum, I can't speak yet on the springs (especially since the majority of them in the trailer were hidden against a wall) but I think the momentum thing when hitting enemies was most likely the player's input. It's still weird if you instantly lose all momentum by letting go of the controller, but there are an equal amount of moments in the video where they bounce on an enemy chain pretty organically. I remember in the trailer thread some people were turned off at how Sonic seemed to plow through some enemies, despite different reactions from different jump heights being a thing since...the first Green Hill lol.

Though it's not all entirely kosher for me yet. The stage having things like speed boosters for loops/auto-sections, bottomless pits, and the end-stage insta-death gimmick seem really reminiscent of Dimps, so despite me thinking it should control better than Generations/Lost World I'll hold my breath. Also I'm not sure what's up with this moment of lost momentum after a tube, it's seems really similar to the "don't hold forward" programming tick of Mega Drive games.

 

[MrBadger]

My other fear is that we won't get much variance in physical appearance/body types so every character looks like the same as this old Flash game

I'm really hoping we can change the height or proportions. I don't wanna play as a gross lanky modern Sonic character.

I'm pretty pessemistic from what we've seen. The modern clips haven't shown anything interesting (though admittedly the actual platforming is less marketable then early level fast-going) and the classic clips look plain wrong. I can almost physically feel the parts where Sonic loses all momentum at random moments, like every time he hits a spring or about half the time when he bounces off an enemy.

Considering a few parts of OC style gameplay resemble some of boom's gameplay, I also wonder if it wasn't originally planned to be that.

I'm looking forward to Mania though.

Same concerns here. I fear that we're heading for an incredibly safe experience that's adequate at best, but does nothing to fix the issues with modern Sonic's 3D gameplay or classic Sonic's momentum-based gameplay, yet again using basic 2D platforming and automated setpieces as a crutch. But it's good to see people pointing this shit out now because it's been an issue for a very long time. It shows our standards are improving and Sega doesn't get a free pass for just not putting a stupid werewolf gimmick.

 

[Tizoc]

Giving Sonic 1 GG another go and...
yeah you know what for any of its flaws, it is a charming little game.

EDIT: And beaten.
Great game IMO. ok IT HAS its flaws but with some various tweaking here and there, it'd be a really good 2d platformer.
Frikkin' Labyrnth though...

 

[Regiruler]

HotD 4 has a pretty kicking soundtrack. It's nice to be able to hear the music.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Giving Sonic 1 GG another go and...
yeah you know what for any of its flaws, it is a charming little game.

EDIT: And beaten.
Great game IMO. ok IT HAS its flaws but with some various tweaking here and there, it'd be a really good 2d platformer.
Frikkin' Labyrnth though...

Ohhhh, you were playing the GG version? that would explain the issues you mentioned before, superior master system field of vision makes it a lot more manageable.

But Labyrinth still sucks.

 

[Tizoc]

Ohhhh, you were playing the GG version? that would explain the issues you mentioned before, superior master system field of vision makes it a lot more manageable.

But Labyrinth still sucks.

Being underwater does not mean I am moving while dragging a goddamn boulder, SEGA.

 

[Professor Beef]

Being underwater does not mean I am moving while dragging a goddamn boulder, SEGA.

You do know that everything moves slower underwater, right

 

[Nocturnowl]

The bigger problem is that the MS/GG labyrinth level design is mostly like "pick left or right, one of these is correct, the other is a dead end" and they're very compact tunnels to boot.

 

[Professor Beef]

The bigger problem is that the MS/GG labyrinth level design is mostly like "pick left or right, one of these is correct, the other is a dead end" and they're very compact tunnels to boot.

well those were bad games regardless of that zone :V

 

[Tizoc]

You do know that everything moves slower underwater, right

Not THIS slow though.

 

[BlackJace]

Still reeling from the Forces reveals, and that Sega is literally making the most memed part of Sonic fandom a goddamn reality.

How

 

[Anth0ny]

You know, I'm probably more annoyed by the people that shit on Sonic games, claim Sonic was never good and spam awful Shadow x Shrek fanart to get every Sonic-related gaf thread closed than the actual kids who make all of those ORIGINAL CHARACTERS DO NOT STEAL.


it's annoying as fuck. this is pretty much the only thread on gaf where we can just talk about sonic games like sane, normal humans.

 

[BlackJace]

You know, I'm probably more annoyed by the people that shit on Sonic games, claim Sonic was never good and spam awful Shadow x Shrek fanart to get every Sonic-related gaf thread closed than the actual kids who make all of those ORIGINAL CHARACTERS DO NOT STEAL.


it's annoying as fuck. this is pretty much the only thread on gaf where we can just talk about sonic games like sane, normal humans.

I've never been bothered by the fanart either (the ones that aren't obviously creepy), but I think the whole character creation thing for the game is just gonna serve as an easy target for those annoying people that you mention.

No one is gonna talk about what the game does right (or wrong for that matter), and instead discussion will be about the dank memes that people create with the custom characters.

 

[Sciz]

It will take several years of back-to-back, indisputably quality games to match the several years the franchise spent making itself into a joke before the internet will allow it any dignity again, and even that will still be filtered through the lens of its fans.

Enjoy it for what it is, and not what people say it is, and do so where it's sane to make the effort.

 

[Nocturnowl]

I'm pretty unphased by the whole "Ahhhhh fan characters playable, MEMES! WHY SEGA?!" angle.
I mean this is ultimately a game made for kids to enjoy, this is a cool feature for kids a (I assume, I mean I'd have probably loved it as a kid) and then from my old man still playing cartoon hedgehog games angle you get another twist on the Generations gameplay.

I mean if there's a bunch of folks who don't plan on going near the game going bananas over COLDSTEEL LOL and digging for specific type of kids and teens dubious fan art like it's actually got much bearing on the game then well....yeah that's their thing I guess.

well those were bad games regardless of that zone :V

You leave 1 and Chaos (or was it Triple Trouble?) out of this!
Dump on S2 MS all you want though, F that first boss and F the hang-glider!

 

[Village]

I'm more concerned with " what the actual fuck is this video game, " because this video game as of currently makes no sense. And while I hope e3 makes it make more sense, knowing sega it might be the opposite.

I feel like the main criticism of this game when it releases outside of the fan-base specific stuff will be they should have just focused on one thing.

I'm concerned for this game, because there are two very cool ideas, that I feel like are going to get bogged down by a sea of mess.

Hopefully its not that. Though if it is good this may produce other problems.

 

[TheDinoman]

You know, I'm probably more annoyed by the people that shit on Sonic games, claim Sonic was never good and spam awful Shadow x Shrek fanart to get every Sonic-related gaf thread closed than the actual kids who make all of those ORIGINAL CHARACTERS DO NOT STEAL.


it's annoying as fuck. this is pretty much the only thread on gaf where we can just talk about sonic games like sane, normal humans.

It's unfortunate, but the truth is most non-fans simply gave up on Sonic a long time ago. It's like what Ryan Bloom said once:

http://blazehedgehog.tumblr.com/post/133018692759/do-you-think-sonic-fans-are-generally-more

The only people that still care enough to bother "fairly" criticizing Sonic the Hedgehog are his fans. Everybody else gave up and wrote off everything about Sonic. They got too frustrated by the games, saw one too many DeviantArt posts, and decided from now on, anything related to Sonic would be their punching bag.

Which in itself creates an entirely new problem: fans are the last people to ask for advice on what to do. The needs of a fanboy (or whatever) are often highly specific and broadly unnecessary, doubled by the fact that even though fans may moan and whine and complain, they still buy merchandise, because they're in too deep to get out. It doesn't matter if they have their way or not. The job of a corporation like Sega is to sell Sonic to the people who are not already buying Sonic merchandise.

And, as previously established, a lot of those people have given up. Sega has cornered themselves.

So to bring it all back around: at least Sonic fans are being critical. Somebody's thinking about Sonic the Hedgehog in a finer detail than "burn it to the ground and forget it existed."

Sonic Mania is basically looking to be everything we've wanted for years, but even then there's still people shitting on that. These people probably didn't even look at the game or anything and just saw "Sonic" in the title and felt the immediate need to dump on it just because of that.

 

[Falk]

"Modding is a group decision," "We use ModBot because it's easier on mobile," but it just also happens to let the mod handling the final locking take a swipe at people without tipping their hand who it was,

I'm a few days late on this, but you don't have to take offense at something aimed at the... more bizarro side of the fanbase.